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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:20 PM

Is Christopher Dorner a perfect example of why we need gun control?

If Christopher Dorner is just an average guy who snapped, as some are making him out to be, does he make the case for gun control?

Or does his manifesto make the case for citizens arming themselves?

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is Christopher Dorner a perfect example of why we need gun control? (Original post)
ProSense Feb 2013 OP
ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #1
Still Sensible Feb 2013 #2
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #3
TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #9
JaneyVee Feb 2013 #10
A HERETIC I AM Feb 2013 #14
HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #4
graham4anything Feb 2013 #5
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #6
Thinkingabout Feb 2013 #7
libtodeath Feb 2013 #8
JI7 Feb 2013 #11
mwrguy Feb 2013 #12
ancianita Feb 2013 #13
A HERETIC I AM Feb 2013 #15
lib2DaBone Feb 2013 #16
TomClash Feb 2013 #21
The Straight Story Feb 2013 #17
FarCenter Feb 2013 #18
oneshooter Feb 2013 #19
TomClash Feb 2013 #20
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #22
REP Feb 2013 #23

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:24 PM

1. He is a partial refutation of background checks being a panacea

He passed them all with flying colors (including the LAPDs)

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

2. I say neither.

Except maybe for the 50-cal he is said to have. If he does, how in hell did he get it.

Until these events, no background check would have prevented him from getting his hands on any legal-to-own weapon.

Just another event to make the case its all fucked up.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:28 PM

3. It kinda shreds alot of NRA talking points, like putting cops in every school for example.

Everyone IS a good guy with a gun right up until they're a bad guy with a gun. So if people can just snap at any time I think it would be best if we limited access to guns. Their is no silver bullet to gun violence, all we can do and hope for is to lessen it, we will never fully eradicate it.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:52 PM

9. Smashes the police protecting and serving the community bullshit to hell too.

Doesn't do much for the rely on the police to maintain the peace and provide for personal security horseshit either.
The weapons only in the hands of the insular, roided out, above the law, blue line gang operating as the enforcers for the wealthy seems pretty damn weak too.

The biggest "gun control" arguments I've seen is the police cannot control their's both in bridling use and in hitting the broad side of a barn. There also seems to be too much of an idea that a uniform and a gun gives them control when it should mean they come with responsibilities and accountability above and beyond those of a common citizen not less.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:57 PM

10. Yup, the LAPD has a long history of being somewhat the enemy of the people.

Oakland PD is just as bad I've heard. The gang mentality is sickening. Police should make people feel safer when they're around, not shudder with fright.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:53 PM

14. And then there's Miami, and New Orleans, and New York.....

and dozens of other major metropolitan police forces.


I was really surprised to learn that the Jacksonville, FL. Sheriffs office won't consider a recruit unless he has AT LEAST a 4 year degree (I recently moved here).

http://www.coj.net/departments/sheriffs-office/personnel-and-professional-standards/personnel-recruiting/police-recruitment.aspx


One of the few Police Departments I am aware of with such a standard.

I think an educated cop makes for a better cop.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:35 PM

4. He would have passed any background check.

And been able to buy any legal gun. As a cop, its even possible he could have collected illegal guns off the street and kept them.
The only possibility of preventing Dorner's situation is early diagnosis and treatment of mental issues. He claims he suffers from accumulated concussion syndrome, theres possibly PTSD issues. Maybe others. Diagnose those, and remove his guns.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:36 PM

5. He is the example of my example of why all guns should be off the street, legal & illegal except

 

for federal/state/local authority BUT ONLY while on shift, then the guns stay at the station.

It won't happen, but it's the only sure fire way to deal with it.

But of course, extra security is needed and necesssary.

and well, the wheels on the bus go round and round (according to wiki, there are no songwriters listed to give credit for, it is an old folk song it seems).

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:40 PM

6. Nope, he makes a case for banning guns.

Actually every illegal shooting, every suicide, every mass shooting, every accidental shooting where a toddler gets killed, every accidental shooting where anyone is killed actually, every time a customer drops a gun at McDonalds and shoots her husband, every time a vigilante kills a kid that was just on his way home...They all make a good case for banning guns and just letting them be in the hands of a well regulated militia.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:41 PM

7. It points to a need of being recertified regularly and a line in which we can report problems.

Someone can snap and do bad things. Again if there was restriction on weapons in the hands of other than military and law enforcement at least sensible weapons would be the only thing available.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:50 PM

8. It proves that guns are too easy to obtain and use irregardless the mental state

of the one using them

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:59 PM

11. whether he snapped or not, both cases support the need for gun control

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:44 PM

12. It shows that only the police can be trusted with guns

Whoops.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:51 PM

13. He makes an insider's case that law enforcement isn't to serve and protect the general public.


Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood the OP. Comments retracted.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 06:58 PM

15. ...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:07 PM

16. It shows that we need due process.. more than ever....

 

30,000 drones about to be unleashed over the USA.. with little to no oversight.

NSA wire tapping Phones and Emails without a warrant... A President who signed NDAA and believes American Citizens do not deserve a day in court....

A war in Afghanistan that spends $40 BILLION per month while our roads crumble and we do away with school lunches for kids....

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:54 PM

21. !!!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:17 PM

17. Still not about guns

Cops have them, military, millions and millions of citizens.

Most don't use them in ways that would be considered harmful.

It is, as it has been, about underlying issues and why SOME people use violence to solve issues - whether it be perceived enemies (old ladies in trucks, kids killed by drones, etc and so on) or real ones that pose immediate and life threatening situations.

We have no problem understanding the latter and don't blame 'guns' (or whatever is used) in those cases. We see a situation and analyze it.

In the former that is harder to do, so we blame what was used mostly and seek to control it because we cannot reliably control people.

Gun control, imho, should seek to limit the availability to the former while allow those who might face the latter to be able to have the option to own a gun. Guns can help equalize a situation (say you are in late 70's, frail, and several younger and stronger people break in - you cannot fend them off with a knife....)

Seeking balance in it seems fair to me, but that is not always easy so people look for something simple and an easy way out.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:43 PM

18. Even countries with stringent gun controls have problems with gun violence -- e.g. Syria

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:52 PM

19. Don't forget Mexico. n/t

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:53 PM

20. K&r

Thoughtful intelligent post.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:55 PM

22. He makes the argument for an assault weapons ban in the manifesto

I recommend reading it. And I will add, it's not rambling, long yes, rambling no.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 08:56 PM

23. Neither. More about LAPD, PTSD

I keep reading how he broke down after returning from a tour of duty and wanted to be sent back to (civilian) PO training, but was refused. If true, I think that shows (more) problems with dealing with returning soldiers, PTSD, and LAPD.

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