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Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:18 PM

During confirmation, Kerry on drones:

<...>

It is also imperative that in implementing President Obama's vision for the world as he ends more than a decade of war, that we join together to augment our message to the world. President Obama and every one of us here knows that American foreign policy is not defined by drones and deployments alone. We cannot allow the extraordinary good that we do to save and change lives to be eclipsed entirely by the role that we have had to play since September 11th, a role that was thrust upon us.

American foreign policy is also defined by food security and energy security, humanitarian assistance, the fight against disease and the push for development, as much as it is by any single counter terrorism initiative and it must be. It is defined by leadership on life threatening issues like climate change, or fighting to lift up millions of lives by promoting freedom and democracy from Africa to the Americas or speaking out for the prisoners of gulags in North Korea or millions of refugees and displaced persons or victims of human trafficking. It is defined by keeping faith with all that our troops have sacrificed to secure for Afghanistan. America lives up to her values when we give voice to the voiceless.

http://www.foreign.senate.gov/press/chair/release/senator-john-kerrys-opening-statement-at-nomination-hearing-to-be-us-secretary-of-state-

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply During confirmation, Kerry on drones: (Original post)
ProSense Feb 2013 OP
LittleBlue Feb 2013 #1
Enrique Feb 2013 #2
JI7 Feb 2013 #3
Bay Boy Feb 2013 #4
ProSense Feb 2013 #5
malthaussen Feb 2013 #6
ProSense Feb 2013 #7
malthaussen Feb 2013 #8
ProSense Feb 2013 #9
malthaussen Feb 2013 #10
ProSense Feb 2013 #11
malthaussen Feb 2013 #12
The Link Feb 2013 #13
politicasista Feb 2013 #16
SomethingFishy Feb 2013 #14
Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2013 #15
ProSense Feb 2013 #17

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:21 PM

1. He knows it, but will the next guy? nt

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:22 PM

2. Kerry once said something that got him in trouble

he said we should get to the point where terrorism is a matter of law enforcement. We're going the wrong direction, imo, we are doubling down on war. I think we're making it worse, we're getting farther from that point Kerry was talking about.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:26 PM

3. obama is ending the wars in iraq and afghanistan

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:27 PM

4. I guess that's a better headline than:

"Kerry Drones On"


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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 05:53 PM

5. Yeah, much better. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:02 PM

6. Sorry, "You made me do it" is a weak argument.

This kind of all-or-nothing reasoning disturbs me. We see it in DU all the time. Agree with everything, or you are a traitor and belong on the other side. God forbid we admit that sometimes, even our most-beatified politicians might make a mistake, or choose a wrong response.

How in the hell are we supposed to learn, if we aren't permitted to criticize? Evil and good stack up to define the character of an individual or a nation. It is far from within my competence to judge the ultimate worth of a man (or nation) -- that is for a Supreme Magistrate, if indeed one exists. It only lies within me to oppose wrongdoing when I see it, regardless of who is doing it.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:12 PM

7. ? n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:22 PM

8. First para, highlighted part.

Mr Kerry employs "you made us do it," which is a weak argument. He also makes the reasonable point that our foreign policy is not defined by wars alone, but in listing all the good we do is seeming to imply that this negates the evil we do. So in rejecting one all-or-nothing argument, US = EEEEVIL, he seems to adopt the opposite all-or-nothing argument, US = PURE. We see this on DU, whenever one proposes to criticize an action by the government. The argument I am striving to make is that we can't progress closer to US = Pure unless we are willing to criticize when we make mistakes.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:28 PM

9. I'm not sure what you're reading, but

Mr Kerry employs "you made us do it," which is a weak argument. He also makes the reasonable point that our foreign policy is not defined by wars alone, but in listing all the good we do is seeming to imply that this negates the evil we do. So in rejecting one all-or-nothing argument, US = EEEEVIL, he seems to adopt the opposite all-or-nothing argument, US = PURE. We see this on DU, whenever one proposes to criticize an action by the government. The argument I am striving to make is that we can't progress closer to US = Pure unless we are willing to criticize when we make mistakes.

...that makes no sense. In fact that has absolutely nothing to do with the context of his comments.





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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:36 PM

10. I am reading this:

"President Obama and every one of us here knows that American foreign policy is not defined by drones and deployments alone. We cannot allow the extraordinary good that we do to save and change lives to be eclipsed entirely by the role that we have had to play since September 11th, a role that was thrust upon us."

The last clause, "a role that was thrust upon us" is semantically equivalent to "you made us do it." The rest, as I say, seems to be apologia for our warmaking, utilizing the common argument that the good we do counteracts it. The second para appears to be a list of those good things. I didn't read the rest, 'tis true, but was only addressing those parts of the statement.

We do good things. We do bad things. Do the former balance the latter? God alone can say. But it is within our province to object to the latter.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:41 PM

11. Are you saying

"President Obama and every one of us here knows that American foreign policy is not defined by drones and deployments alone. We cannot allow the extraordinary good that we do to save and change lives to be eclipsed entirely by the role that we have had to play since September 11th, a role that was thrust upon us."

The last clause, "a role that was thrust upon us" is semantically equivalent to "you made us do it." The rest, as I say, seems to be apologia for our warmaking, utilizing the common argument that the good we do counteracts it. The second para appears to be a list of those good things. I didn't read the rest, 'tis true, but was only addressing those parts of the statement.

We do good things. We do bad things. Do the former balance the latter? God alone can say. But it is within our province to object to the latter.

...that 9/11 and the response to it didn't happen? I mean, what's your point? The rest of your interpretation is simply flawed because Kerry is saying the exact opposite, which our foreign policy shouldn't be defined by or "eclipsed by" that response.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:50 PM

12. Now I'm the one who is puzzled.

I'm also out of time, so further discussion must await another sun. Suffice it that my point is that we should take care, in our hurry to avoid the "eclipsing" of our foreign policy by our mistakes, that we do not neglect to acknowledge and examine those mistakes. Because we do great good, we are not absolved of doing great evil as well.

-- Mal

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:53 PM

13. Kerry is saying exactly what his boss tells him to say.

 

He's a good soldier.

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Response to The Link (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:37 PM

16. +1 n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:11 PM

14. He's wrong. And so is Feingold.

IMHO

What I don't get is why you are discussing the opinions of others instead of the pros and cons of the issue.

And while Kerry makes a good point, we spend a lot more money killing people than we do helping them. Priorities and all.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:31 PM

15. Who will be the last man to die in a lost war....several of them?

Wars now going in several areas with no hope of ending, let alone victoriously.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:55 PM

17. Where?

"Wars now going in several areas with no hope of ending, let alone victoriously."

Where are wars going on?

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