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‘Did You Say ‘F**k Me?’ Judge Sentences Florida Teen To 30 Days In Jail For Cursing At Him
18-year-old Penelope Soto taught an important lesson to millions of young Americans when she was called before a Florida judge yesterday on a drug possession charge. Soto laughed when the judge asked if she had consumed any drugs in the last 24 hours and then said “adios” after he set her bail at $5,000. She stopped laughing when he asked her to return and raised the bond to $10,000.
“Are you serious?” Soto asked. The judge replied, “I am serious. Adios.”
At that point, Soto apparently gave the judge the finger and shouted an expletive at him. He then asked Soto point blank, “Did you say ‘fuck me’?” When she said she did, he found her in criminal contempt of court and sentenced her to 30 days in a county jail.
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FarPoint
(12,409 posts)Hopefully a life lesson will reach the teen.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
longship
(40,416 posts)It was a good call by the judge.
And by the way, It's "too", not "to".
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)
Can't imagine ever doing anything disrespectful in a courtroom.
Never a good idea.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)Some young people today have no damned respect.
30 days ought to give her some time to think about that.
There used to be such a thing as manners.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)These public defenders are asleep at the wheel. I would have told her to keep her high as a kite mouth fucking shut.
former9thward
(32,016 posts)It is likely no PDs were present. But even so you can't put duct tape over a client's mouth. They often ignore their instructions.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)given to make us feel like there is some equality in our laws. The truth is the PD meets you about 10 min b4 u c the judge. They are translators to put the words into legalese so the judge will even hear it. They do not defend.
There are two classes for laws. Even in a f n traffic court if you can afford your own attorney, the charges are reduced automatically.
The rich don't go to jail very often. But they have need to keep the prisons filled 80% capacity with the poor.
There are two systems of the law. One for the rich and one for the rest of us.
This needs to change.
marybourg
(12,631 posts)are doing their best in very difficult situations to actually HELP poor people, it's unlikely that you're smart enough to figure out the solution to your feelings of oppression: do what you have to do to earn enough to BECOME one of rich. That may include learning the rules that grease the current adult world and that means, among other things, not using the word "fucking" in every sentence.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Because a public defender is nothing more than a fucking translator. It's a 2 class system and the answer is not to try to become the rich. The answer is equal representation. Not trying to become them so we can help keep the poor down.
and I had not said the word fucking in my original statement. I said piece of shit, I think. So that must mean you are following my post and I have pissed you off about something fucking else, or you a a pubic defender 
no L for u
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Those with the least experience are assigned to misdemeanor cases. Serving as a public defender provides valuable trial experience for new lawyers. Of course the system is less than ideal, but without the public defender system indigent people would be left without any representation at all.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)close to the defense that a person needs.
Maybe not their fault, but it sure the hell is a huge problem in this country. People act like because they give you a public defender that you had equal representation. You do NOT. I would never wait til 10 minutes before seeing the judge to talk for ten minutes to my defense. That's what you get though. How can they even hope to defend like that?
It sounds from your description that the public defender program is more aimed at helping the public defenders learn their trade than it is at actually being effective?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)dimed to death at every turn.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)they are not surviving out there anymore. This two class system needs to be changed.
Nine
(1,741 posts)A wag of the finger for admonishing someone making the very valid point that we have a two-tiered justice system by basically saying, "If you don't like that the rich have extra privileges then become rich yourself."
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Don't you DARE call public defenders pieces of shit.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)the Majority of cops are decent & honest people, I'd wager. This judge is a bit of a moron, but what 2pooped2pop said in the particular reply was uncalled for, IMHO.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Now, maybe it's not the public defenders fault, but the service the poor get with them is pretty shabby. We need a public defender that will actually equal a paid defender. If you think that's what you get with a public defender, then I suggest you use one if ever the need should arise.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)attention. Top of her class at one of the country's better law schools. Almost always wins, many people walk free because of her and a few draw breath because of her.
Your opinion is noted.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)If only we all got that. Maybe we could clone her?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Maybe you got a bad one, or several bad ones?
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)but I've seen friends and friends of friends, do time that they would not have gotten if only they could have afforded a lawyer. They still would have done time, but I am certain that it would have been much reduced.
They just got ran over by the system and removed from their families for decades for pretty minor offenses.
As everyone has pointed out though, I think my beef is more with the system that overloads the public defenders so that they have no chance of actually doing the best job they are capable of doing if they were acting as a private attorney.
Around here, public defender means you are going to jail.
Hell, even my son had one who failed to tell him of a court date change. My son was arrested for not showing up and the defender advised him to take the plea which meant doing jail time. A tiny bit. But he had planned to plead not guilty and would have won it. But he freaked in jail and took the easy way to get out. Plead guilty even though he wasn't and now has a record. The defender advised him wrong and his not telling him of the court date change, screwed him up. But this is really a minor case. The defender could have fought the non notice of court date but that would have shown him to be at fault, I guess. So he didn't.
I am more concerned of the people getting years for crimes that the rich would pay their way out of. Yes, they committed a crime but it should not have effectively ended their life and the life that their children knew.
It's a two class system. I see lives destroyed that I am certain would not have been if only they had the money for an adequate defense.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)The PD does the best they can but the system is set up so they are not able to do much. Blame the system and rant at them, not the PD's working as best they can.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)and accept that at least most public defenders are doing the best they can with what they are given if you guys say so.
So I would change my statement to"the service we get is a piece of shit", or just crappy. And I think that still holds true. But I can see now that my blame was on the workers rather than the system they are forced to work in.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I agree with the rest, it is a crappy system and those who can afford to pay more, get more. "Justice rules" "the truth will out"? Too often not.
ETA, thank you for reading what we wrote and thinking about it. And about ranting on the system.
cali
(114,904 posts)Vermont, first as a Victim's Advocate out of the SA office and then as an advocate for P&A, were fantastic, dedicated and competent.
What is true is that they need more money.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)But like I said, what I have seen is nothing more than someone to put things into legalese. Maybe I have never had, or known someone with a serious enough case using a public defender. But other than talking to the judge in the terms he wants to hear, I have not seen anyone actually defended.
Most went to jail as though there were no defense (because there wasn't)
I saw a story here on DU a bit back. It was saying that when people go into traffic court with a lawyer, their violations are automatically reduced, while the people who can't afford a lawyer are given the full weight of the law. Two systems.
Now, thinking back many years ago. My son had to go to court for busting a mailbox. Last minute, I paid for an attorney and found out he was actually the public defender. While in court I remember that they told the judge that I paid for the attorney and was using him as a personal attorney and not a public defender. My son was found innocent while his buddy was not. His buddy used a public defender. Maybe even the same one. I can't help but wonder if that is why it was decided as it was.
Go back many more years and I remember going to court to change the name of my 1 year old son. We were pretty poor and I could not see spending what little money we had on clothes to wear to court that were not like clothes I would wear again. I had gained weight and had nothing that would fit. I did not have any other need for new dress clothes.
I was told by my lawyer that the judge would not let me win my case unless I wore dress shoes and dress pants for him. "How can I lose my case", I asked. "No one is contesting it?" Then I knew that I had to wear my jeans. I could not let the man in the robe refuse my uncontested case because I couldn't dress well enough to suit him. But the judge made me testify that I had nothing else to wear. Lawyer was paid for by my husbands employer as part of his benefits. This is not about public defender but the high and mighty way the judge thinks of himself compared to those who are the have nots..
Now, I will admit that these crappy public defenders may be better than they are allowed to be, but from where I am sitting, we don't get a defense, only a translator.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)represent you then you blame public defenders and say 'we don't get a defense'? You most certainly seem to come to court with representation for every little thing, paid, private representation. So who is this 'we' that uses public defenders? Sure is not you.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)legal assistance. Would be kind of stupid not to. I would never want to have to depend on them for anything serious though. But I would take them before a public defender.
Damned straight I do. I have learned. And since I probably won't be finding myself in any serious trouble that a small retainer won't cover, I will continue to do so. I know I will come out better. If I was accused of something serious, I would not be able to afford my own attorney and would be forced to take the public defender. I would most likely get no breaks from the judge.
It's automatically set for the poor to do time and those who can afford a lawyer WILL receive a lesser sentence and charges will most likely be reduced.
If you think you will get a good defense from a public defender use one. I have, and I know many people who are forced to use them. I have never seen one "work" for anyone as some have described on here. If only. I have seen many people get the full maximum sentences because they could not afford a paid attorney.
You can believe it's all good, but the poor people are getting crappy legal help from the courts. It is the poor who will fill the private prisons to their contracted 80% capacity.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)they can in a corrupt system. And shame on you for calling the people working in a fucked up system "piece of shit".
Remember who the problem is and try and change that.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)And, many are wonderful attorneys, overworked and severely underpaid. NOT POS.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)The judge told her to sell her jewelry and hire a private attorney. The judge appointed a PD after he sentenced her to 30 days for contempt, and he stated it was for the contempt only. I'm sure when she went into court the Public Defender made an attempt to get her to watch her mouth.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Some young people today have no damned respect.....There used to be such a thing as manners.
I'm sorry, but you DO realize this makes you sound like a Teabagging Republican, right? SMH, man, there's ALWAYS been problems.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)Seriously?
I realize it may make me sound a bit like an old "get off my lawn" old fart, but I don't think considering manners and respect as important to be particularly partisan.
When I was a 16 year old, I had enough sense to understand that if I had said "Fuck You" to a judge in open court, it wouldn't fly.
That girl got exactly what she deserved
raccoon
(31,111 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I'm not really saying you ARE a covert Teabagger, of course, but you really should exercise more caution because you CAN end up repeating certain right-wing memes without knowing it.
I wouldn't have said anything except for what I quoted.....the other thing was fine.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)About AverageJoe90
Statistics and Information
Account status: Active
Member since: Tue Jun 28, 2011, 06:03 PM
Number of posts: 4,473
A HERETIC I AM
Statistics and Information
Account status: Active
Member since: Mon Aug 4, 2003, 03:56 PM
Number of posts, all time: 9,547
WOW! I guess you have been a member long enough to tell me how to conduct myself!
Thanks!
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Now you're just acting childish.
I'm sorry if you don't like it when somebody points out an error of yours, but you know what? That's exactly what it was. I'm sure you wouldn't like it at all if someone said, "Gee, it sure is sad that most people were sexist/racist/etc., back then?", right?
There's ALWAYS been kids who misbehave, like it or not.....
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)I am 53 years old. The way my father, and the fathers of MOST of the rest of the kids I knew in grade school were raised was, among other things,
HAVE SOME GOD DAMNED RESPECT
You don't use curse words in mixed company, you are polite to strangers, you say "Please" and "Thank You", Gentlemen, both young and old STOOD when a woman entered the room, you took your hat off indoors, you were quiet in church and Museums, you didn't talk in the movie theater, you tried your best to be amiable and decent.......
AND YOU DIDN'T SAY "ADIOS" OR "FUCK YOU" TO A JUDGE IN HIS OWN COURTROOM!!!, particularly when he is in the process of cutting you slack you probably don't deserve in the first place.
NOW.....
If having and thinking those values are worthy of perpetuating is "an error" in your mind, then it is clear to me we are from two different worlds.
Have a great day.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I continually pointed out that this girl cussing the judge out wasn't a smart decision. You seem to be ignoring that, though, for whatever reason.
Your error, as I very clearly pointed out, at least on this thread in general, if not to you, directly, was implying that today's kids have more problems overall than those of yesteryear, which is simply not true.
Look, I'm sure you were raised well, and that's good. But it does bother me when some people, who should know better, at least, theoretically, fall into this "Today's kids suck!" trap.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)more disrespect of teachers and authority, more stupidity today than kids had 20 or 30 years ago.
Every teacher I've spoken with have told me this is the case.
I don't think it's ALL kids, of course. I just think (and observe) that MORE kids are acting WORSE, and much of it has to do with the culture/media, and much of it has to do with parents.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)It's perfectly plausible to suggest that more normally well-behaved kids may be doing more stupid things, that can be admitted. But there's a difference between a decent kid who might fuck up every once in a while, and a really nasty kid, like your typical neo-Nazi or Young Americans for Freedom member; the latter may have actually been declining overall, if anything.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)No one here is talking about skinheads or Klan cross burners; you brought that into the discussion.
This thread is about a stupid adolescent girl who mouthed off to a judge and showed contempt of court. Many of us think that this is more commonplace in society, because there isn't the emphasis on enforcing standards of civility.
I agree that there are fewer skinheads and cross burners today, and that's a good thing. But I think that's a bit tangential from the subject at hand.
I definitely see that there are more dumbasses today who don't know how to be civil and polite when they should be, and our mass media culture seems to encourage that. Your mileage may vary.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)and start acting like an adult.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts): emotionally or intellectually immature
I think she qualifies, even if she is of legal age.
But, yes, she needs to grow up and wise up. Fast.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)I work with adults. They are no better.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)YMMV
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)contempt of court. Stop carrying water for that thug.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)You do realize that this may have some unfortunate connotations, right?(not to mention that contempt of court isn't exactly "thuggish"
.
RILib
(862 posts)Of being called a right winger when I stand up for common civility or, God forbid, criticize Hillary.
News flash: Not everyone who disagrees with you is a Republican.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I didn't accuse the person in question of actually being a Republican. But I did point out that certain things that he said, that I quoted, in fact, did sound like something that shouldn't be said on a site like DU.
And I'm sure you've noticed that we've had a big problem with right-wing memes in general being spouted on here without adequate recourse(particularly of the gun-nut variety above all else). Maybe I've been just a tad overzealous here, but there are some valid concerns about this stuff being repeated, even unknowingly sometimes.
RILib
(862 posts)That some Democrats and Republicans have some views in common. Some of us older types remember the era of good manners.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)I wouldn't have guessed that people really believed that crap, but here you are, the second in this very thread.
The complaint that this generation is worse than the previous one is as old as humanity itself. That leaves two possibilities: Either you're very degenerate when compared to Romans, or people over 40 tend to get self-righteous as their memory turns ever more selective.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Because that is a reactionary Republican schtick, and like the gun-nuttery you see in RKBA, it shouldn't be tolerated on Democratic Underground.
There is a major difference between wishing this kid would get better manners(something I won't disagree with, btw!), and pulling out the "Today's kids are all worse!" card. It's not hard to figure out.....
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)( I just wanted to be heard over the din of this sub-thread)
You know...the one that started this exchange?
I did NOT say "Today's kids are all worse!" (your words)
I did NOT say "today's kids have more problems overall than those of yesteryear" (ditto)
I did NOT say "kids have no manners today" (ditto)
I did NOT say "Today's kids suck compared to my generation!" (not me)
What I said was
Operative word? SOME
Not all.
Not most,
Not a majority.
Some.
And you're right, that has always been the case. When I was a kid, some kids had no manners.
But I said what I said because I believe it to be particularly true these days. As others have pointed out, contemporary influences have given some young people the idea that it is quite alright to speak to a Judge, in this case, anyway, as if he was one of her girlfriends in the hall at her high school.
This girl (and I was going to use the term "young lady", but she has quite a way to go before she earns that moniker) was obviously high in FUCKING COURT! She is apparently abusing Xanax. That's not the equivalent of smoking a joint. Its a bit further along than that. The drug is addictive.
Set aside for a moment that she was stoned, because I quite frankly don't give a fuck. I feel she is free to put any substance inside her own body that she chooses to, as long as it causes no harm to anyone else.
But she was dressed in an orange jumpsuit. That means she had been there a while. This isn't a DUI beef. She got popped, is in the nick and now she is in front of a judge during a procedure designed to get her the hell out of there. The Judge was trying to determine what kind of funds she had access to in order for her to either hire an attorney or pay the bond and she was treating it as if it was no big deal and that this member of the Bar was somehow her peer.
He isn't. And he proved it.
Her mannerisms from the get go were disrespectful not only to the judge, but to the entire circumstance as a whole. She might as well have held a sign over her head that said "I'm too stupid to do the right thing so just throw the book at me".
When the judge asked her how much her jewelry was worth she gave a smart-assed, typical dumbass teenager type of answer, again, speaking as if the judge was standing by her locker.
"Like Rick Ross" she says. Really? You equate the contents of your damned Minnie Mouse jewelry box to the wealth of the 20th richest rapper alive ?
She has no respect. She has no manners. She has no class. She is too fucking stupid to understand the gravity of a courtroom situation. And at 18 or whatever she is, she should have at LEAST a modicum of some of that by now.
As far as your repeated assertions on this thread that I am pushing either "teabagger" or republican talking points, that I might be a troll or engaging in "trollish" behavior, or that I am somehow, after over 9 years as a DU'er, going to be found out by the likes of you to be a secret conservative.
Let me just tell you this;
I agree with Chris Rock.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)No, I do mean that.
All I was meaning to say is that generalizations like that don't do us any good and that we need to be careful not to end up parroting certain memes.....I wasn't bitching about the other stuff, either, as I said earlier, several times.
Perhaps I may have been a tad overzealous here, but I've noticed a lot of bad memes in general have been flying around this place over the past few months.....
I'd just advise you to be more careful in the future.....and I'll try to do the same. 
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)I'm all over the place. I've been much more conservative in the past, before coming here and learning more and actually examining my views and beliefs. I'm an independent, I think both parties are full of entrenched stupidity that keeps pragmatic solutions bottled up and thus don't allow our country to get anything done. On some issues, I tend to side more with the conservatives or libertarians, and on some things I think the progressives have it correct.
Much more so than in the past, I really do try to look at the issue--all sides of it--before deciding. I think that makes much more sense.
Of course, around here (to some) it means I'm a teabagger troll. If I went to Free Republic, I'd be called a socialist.
I think the extremes are both pretty crazy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They're also suggestive of a person who is in control of their person and their emotions; someone who knows how to make an effective and convincing argument.
Someone like that is hardly a "Teabagging Republican" and I can't even understand why anyone would fling such an ill-informed comment!
I agree with you, and the judge. So put me in the Old Fart/Get off my lawn column, too!
Skittles
(153,164 posts)that gal needs to grow up, and I hope this incident helps
RobinA
(9,893 posts)This girl just got herself the kind of street cred money can't buy. The judge should have ignored her. Instead, he created a hero. She's the girl who said "f**k you" to the judge, and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. If HE had kept his mouth shut, no one would know it.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Teabagger my ass.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Look at what I quoted. This "kids have no manners today" schtick is something I have a problem with primarily because it's a conservative meme.
That's what I had a real problem with.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)I figured out a long time ago that when in front of a judge, you keep your mouth shut and let the mouthpiece do the talking.
It's survival skills, not manners that come into play if you lip off to a judge.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Again, I acknowledged that the cursing wasn't a smart move, okay? But if the judge hadn't suddenly decided to double her bail, for no good reason, mind you, then I doubt she would have cussed him out in the first place, because that's why she did. Watch the video......
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)that no matter how wrong the judge or the cop is, the minute you argue with him, you're more wrong than he is.
That's why you let your lawyer do the talking.
she's evidently a slow learner.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I don't know why the FUCK I have to keep repeating myself on that.
If he hadn't come out and said:
Some young people today have no damned respect.....There used to be such a thing as manners.(as if kids didn't misbehave in the past!) there wouldn't have been an issue. And frankly, if what I quoted isn't borderline trolling, then what is?
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)"she's evidently a slow learner"
Damn, you got that right!
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)
tblue37
(65,391 posts)in a rather snarky tone. Then, instead of learning a lesson from experiencing the consequences of her original disrespectful behavior, she got even more disrespectful and ended up with even more serious consequences.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I heard a couple of laughs, but nothing definitively directed towards him or the court in particular, and in fact, she apologized for it.
Yes, she could have better recognized the seriousness of the situation, I doubt anyone will disagree with that, but I know real, purposeful, disrespect when I see it, and that didn't occur until she cussed at him(which, btw, was a dumb move).
tblue37
(65,391 posts)presence of someone with a lot of authority who can cause them real problems, to giggle and smirk as though it's all a big game is disrespectful. Besides, I suspect the reason he asked whether she had used drugs recently was precisely because she was acting as though she was high as a kite right then.
If you want to get out easily on a drug charge, you don't act as though you are on drugs right there in front of the judge. That's begging for trouble. Then, when she got the predictable trouble she had been begging for, she turned around and really stepped in it.
The judge told the complaining lawyer to cover the contempt charge. He will talk to the girl and probably get her to politely apologize, and then probably the judge will drop the contempt case--and perhaps even lower the bail again if he thinks her apology is reasonably sincere.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Well, again, as I said, some people may believe that disrespect can be either intentional or unintentional(it may be argued, from this viewpoint, that her actions were the latter before the cursing incident). I come from the viewpoint that there is only intentional disrespect.
With that said, though, if she does get the chance to apologize, Ms. Soto would have to be crazy not to do it.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)In general, overall, what is your opinion? Yes or no?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Of course, there's bad kids out there. But the thing is, he made it sound like this is a more recent problem, when in all reality, there have ALWAYS been misbehaving kids. Always will be.
Perhaps this may be hard to believe, but I've learned that the sad truth is, this meme of "today's kids have no disclipline/respect/etc.", is, unfortunately, ultimated very much a right-wing, and dare I say, reactionary, one in it's conception and usage.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)to point out something that is clearly happening in our society. There is a drastic drop in civility, manners and common sense today. Have there always been dumbasses? Yes, there were always a few. Today, dumbasses get their own reality TV shows and teach the rest of their age demographic how to behave like dumbasses.
You can tell everyone in this thread who agrees with Heretic that we are spouting "right-wing memes" if you want. Similarly, we will continue to think you're in denial.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,369 posts)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)There are some particular problems today which did not occur yesteryear, that may be true(dumbass reality TV, for example).
But you know something? Youth aren't like Washington, fella(which actually HAS seen a drastic drop in civility and common sense overall). Here's the thing: the number of truly bad kids hasn't really gone up. Today's bad kids might be pissing on people's lawns or whatever, but some kids in the South in the '60s were burning crosses on people's lawns, and some '50s kids were harassing "commies", and pretty much every generation ever has had its kids harassing the outcasts of society.
Just to clarify: I don't doubt that there may indeed be more normally good kids just doing more stupid stuff(hell, I think the internet can actually attest to that!), but if anything at all, I'd betcha the number of truly bad kids may very well have gone down overall(just remember, there were times where certain types of misbehaviors where often overlooked, depending on the place of course.....such as, for example, white kids burning crosses on black people's lawns in 1950s Mississippi.....); society really has improved.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
- Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Hardly a "conservative meme."
Bake
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)What I called a conservative meme, was this "Today's kids suck compared to my generation!" schtick.....and yes, I think EVERY kid should have basic manners, that most of us can agree on.
But again, now that I've pointed this out in plain view, re-read what I said, and then look at my other comments.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)So she's a surly, stupid, drugged out adult. The surly, stupid drugged out adults of my generation were much better than her. Some in my generation became President, just like their dad.
It is odd that you are harping on her being a 'kid' when she's in adult court, being an adult violator. Old enough to vote and to serve her country, if she knew she had one.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)If you think people back then were MUCH better overall, well, news flash: They really weren't. By the way, if you're old enough to remember the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam era, I'm sure you'd be able to recall some great examples of what I mean; Bull Connor, Lester Maddox, the Klan, George Wallace, and many, many, people who supported the war in Vietnam were far bigger jerks and morons than Ms. Soto here might ever be.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)They sound like someone who knows that in a courtroom, the judge is king. Don't like it, don't get in trouble. Judge did the appropriate thing here and I hope the little shit learns a lesson.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)It was what I quoted, and what I quoted only.
In fact, I'll post this AGAIN, and highlight some important things:
Some young people today have no damned respect.....There used to be such a thing as manners.
If the highlighted stuff doesn't get your attention, then I don't know what will.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a teabagger. Not cool at all.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I'm sorry if you may have been offended, but my point is, we should always be careful. I can understand that this kid made a poor judgement, but when someone basically implies that today's kids have a more serious problem with respect than older people, that needs to be called out, because not only is it not true, but it is a sentiment primarily expressed by rightist wingnuts, as well.
Sad thing is, I've had a LOT of experience in this regard.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)with the poster regarding respect. Now granted, this is my personal experience but that's all I have. I see kids talking to their parents, teachers, etc. in a way I would never have dreamed of. Maybe she wasn't taught about how detrimental it could be to mouth off to judge in his courtroom, maybe not. I doubt she'll do it again.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)All I have is anecdotal observation, and the opinions of teachers and police officers who also have anecdotal info, but it seems obvious to me there has been a coarsening of culture and a drastic reduction in civility, manners and common sense in the last 30 years or so.
But then I'm an "old turd" that doesn't think Beyonce is the greatest talent the world has ever seen.
Now get offa my lawn!
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and while I find Beyonce entertaining, I'm a rock and roller down to my soul.
I'm in total agreement about the coarsening of our culture. I don't think I even swore in front of my parents until I was an adult myself and mine were two raging liberals.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)and I do not wish to get into that argument. However, lecturing posters on the need to be more cautious in wording their posts because you do not like what they have written is not cool. You mention that you CLEARLY pointed out that the poster was wrong, but you facts did not included any documented data, so while you may or may not be correct, I did not think you were that clear.
I do not know if the judge legally has the power to throw this potty mouthed kid in jail for thirty days, but it would have to go to an appeals court to find out and I doubt that will happen.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And I'll admit to that.
However though, I can't help but notice that we've had a big problem with typically right-wing memes being repeated on DU without much reprecussion lately(I'm not alone in that regard, at least). Now, granted, the particular, "Today's kids are all worse than yesteryear's!" card seems to be pretty rare, thankfully, but in general, it seems that stuff that'd normally be seen only on FreeRepublic and similar sites is largely going unopposed; such as, for example, I've seen that some gun-nuts are still spewing NRAesque B.S.(mainly, stuff like "Gov'ment ain't gonna be grabbin' mah guns!", and it sometimes takes a while for that to get addressed.
Maybe I've just been caught up in the hysteria, I dunno. Goodness knows there's been a fair share of that stuff going around.....
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)...... and you are wrong. Just my opinion of course, not attacking you, just your idea. (For the record.)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)However, though, it does concern me that many people seem to be confusing those overall decent kids who may just do some really dumbass things every once in a while(and there may indeed be more of those, that I don't question), and truly bad kids, like Mitt Romney in the '60s.....
A overall decent kid from Southern California who might have thwacked a mailbox once or done 100 miles an hour on the 405 a few times just to avoid being late to work, just can't be held in the same light as the favorite son of a pro-beating anti-feminist Klan family in Georgia who burned a few crosses on black families' lawns out of sheer hatred, or a wingnut college student from Ohio who decides that it'd be fun to cherry bomb the house of a local liberal Democrat just because she opposes corporal punishment or supports the DREAM Act or whatever.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)In fact, it's become pretty obvious over the past 10 years or so that the RW and teabaggers in particular are pretty much lacking in such niceties.
But you knew that, I'm quite sure.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Please do read my other replies. I'm all for kids learning basic manners and stuff, I'm sure MOST people are, and this girl might have been better off if she hadn't flipped out.
However, what ground my gears about AHIA's statement, is that he pulled the "Today's kids are worse than yesterday's!" card as well, and that IS a popular reactionary meme, unfortunately(it has been forever, really), even if some don't realize that.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)to incarcerate her.
Respect and civility are NOT "old fashioned" notions.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)If you watched the video, the judge started this mess by raising her bail to $10,000 when she hadn't done anything just yet. Only when that happened, did she cuss at him. That, and the frankly ridiculous 30-day sentence, is why I ended up cutting this kid some slack(though, originally, had I NOT watched it, I'd have sympathized with the judge).
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)If she can't take the heat she'd do well to stay out of the fucking kitchen and obey laws so she doesn't wind up in court.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)So that makes your argument null and void. Watch(and pay attention to) the video, if you haven't already, and then come back.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)She was evasive. She didn't answer the questions. "How much is your jewelry worth?" "Rick Ralls...It's worth money."
She showed disrespect from the get-go. She's there in front of the court official who determines the size of her bond. And she's acting like the whole proceeding is a joke and the judge is a fool.
I'm not sure what video you're watching, but it's clear to me that SHE started it, and SHE escalated it.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Yeah, it's unfortunate that she didn't quite grasp just how serious this is, but unlike some, I don't count that as disrespect(though some may believe in unintentional disrespect).
Now, it does appear that the video may have been cut in places so we may not know the entire story, but from what we have now, it does appear that the judge's telling her "bye-bye" was the initial catalyst, and his doubling her bond was the one that led up to her actually, purposefully disrespecting him, via the cursing. Perhaps if the full video is ever released it may shed more light on this, but for now, while neither side is entirely innocent, the judge definitely did a few things that really shouldn't have been done.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)I realize you find yourself losing the battle and on this one you are wrong as well. The Judge didn't "start" anything! She was being obviously disrespectful when she said "adios". She was twirling her hair, smiling and flippant. IMHO he could have found her in contempt then and there. He showed tremendous restraint by simply doubling her bail. She took it to the next level and he responded w/ all he had left.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)If anything, I've been winning this battle(not that I wanted to do this in the first place, mind you.).
If you watch the video, at around 1:53 or so, he started this whole thing by saying, "Bye bye", and THEN she said "adios", in response. Maybe not a smart move, but the judge said "bye bye" first, which wasn't necessary if he didn't want her to leave. What was he thinking?
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)and I've been in lots of courtrooms. She was being contemptible and not taking the entire hearing seriously from the get-go. He recognized this which was why he bid this silly girl "bye-bye". She should have simply closed her mouth and walked out. But she didn't. She continued her contemptuous attitude and he hoped to get her to take it seriously by raising her bail - DESPITE the fact she was continuously acting in contempt. However, he restrained himself until she took it over the edge. Sorry you don't see her actions for what they were from the onset.
This is not personal to most judges but a matter of respect for the Court. Any attorney acting the way she was would have gone to jail immediately. He will probably reduce her time if she will show the proper amount of respect and apologize to the Court - even this afternoon. He had to go this far to get her attention. Too bad for her, but no shame on him.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And, frankly, if he does reduce her time after an apology, then would deserve credit for doing so.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)x-ray vision Joe, because I saw what "really" took place, but apparently you saw something that wasn't there to the naked eye.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Nothing wrong with that, but, TBH, I don't believe in unintentional disrespect; some people may, and I guess some people might call her actions before the cursing as such. But I just don't see it how some might.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You are not dealing with a low level police officer.
Judges earn those robes -- or at least most of them do.
Logical
(22,457 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)They can earn it with a judicious temperment, something this one certainly lacked.
She's guilty of lese majesty.
Bake
(21,977 posts)ESPECIALLY the ones that lack a certain judicial temperament, since they CAN lock your ass up for contempt.
The girl was an idiot. Did she really think she was going to waltz out of the courtroom after that?
Bake
derby378
(30,252 posts)Old-school Quakers in colonial England insisted on referring to judges by their first names. Eventually, they got used to it.
The one thing to remember is that the judge essentially a legal referee, and thus must weigh the facts of a case or complaint with equal diligence to both sides. Don't make her job that much more difficult by getting an attitude with her; she's actually a public servant who is taking great pains with you.
And in the case of trial by jury? As a Dallas judge once told me, each juror is also a judge in her own right for the duration of the trial.
Just respect the office. It's not handed out like a prize from a gumball machine - it has to be earned.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The young woman was way out of line. You do not talk back to judges.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)They are paid to do a job. Some of them do it well and some are really do not deserve the title. However, respect is earned it should not come automatically with the job.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is because tempers can flare in courtrooms, and it is the judge's job, regardless whether he or she has a judicial temperament, to keep the proceedings in the courtroom civil, peaceful and non-violent. That can be a very tough job because very often the judge is dealing with situations that are intrinsically violent or verging on violence. Think about divorce courts as well as criminal courts. The judge's job is to resolve conflicts in a peaceful way. That is why you do not talk back to a judge even though in your heart you are furious.
Whether the judge is right or wrong is something for an appellate court to decide.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)So if you get a piece of scum for a judge and your public defender is not a very good lawyer, you are screwed.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)deserve more respect than the low level police officer?
What century is this?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The police officer makes an on-the-spot decision about the events that he observes or that he hears about. The police officer makes decisions based on instinct, on impressions and on his ideas about the law. He follows procedures but not to the extent that the judge in the court does.
The police officer is required to insure the rights of a defendant or suspect to a certain extent, but that is not his primary goal. Justice is only one aspect of his considerations when he makes an arrest or stops someone. He is more concerned with immediate or long-term safety than with justice or fairness.
On the other hand, a judge is supposed to listen to two sides of a dispute. For example, a police officer claims that he saw a driver running a red light and nearly hitting a pedestrian. The judge is not supposed to react based on his senses or emotions of the moment or even his repulsion at the conduct of the driver. That is the police officer's job.
The judge's job is to listen to or read the allegations of the police officer -- who is the accuser -- then listen to the claims or explanation of the driver of the car -- the defendant -- apply the law and decide whether the defendant is guilty.
The judge is the person who is supposed to be objective, dispassionate, rational and measured in his response. The judge is also the person who has the time to read the law (lots of it and often with help from his staff) and apply it "judiciously."
The judge is responsible for maintaining a calm, dignified, thoughtful, respectful atmosphere in the courtroom. If a police officer feels frustrated by the disorder, roughness, thoughtlessness and disrespect that he experiences in his job, he needs to see if he can go to law school and move into the courtroom either as a prosecutor, public defender or judge.
It's not that judges are better people than police officers. Absolutely not. It's just the kind of work they do and the environment in which they do it.
watched the video: what a disgusting little person this man is.
She cursed while heading away, back to prison, AFTER he had just doubled her bail on a whim.
It is also quite obvious that he has no idea who and what he is dealing with, seems puzzled the whole time. Not an authority figure in my book, not by a very long shot. Disbar this asshole and let him drive a taxi.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)He doubled her bail cause she was obviously high and was disrespectful at the end. He had already given her the benefit of the doubt....he even chuckled.
Again, I am not a fan of cops and judges and/or the entire CJS, but she got what she deserved.
On edit: Don't think she's going back to prison...most likely jail.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am sure she will behave when she goes inside the court again.
RudynJack
(1,044 posts)can't act like a jerk. Court is one. She learned a good lesson.
Also, don't slap a cop - it won't end well.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)From the start the young lady clearly had no consideration for the seriousness of the proceedings, in spite of the fact she'd already been through the humiliation of booking & was standing there in an orange jumpsuit. Many judges would have given her 30 days just for giggling inappropriately, or not directly answering questions to her.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)a weekend wouldn't sufficed. We send far to many people to jail, the first rule of taking away someone freedom is that they present a threat of violence.
LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)You pull that crap in a courtroom you pay the consequences. If she's so incapable of exercising self restraint that she couldn't keep herself from cursing out a judge in a courtroom while she was standing there up on charges 30 days sitting in a cell is probably going to give her some valuable thinking time.
Response to Logical (Reply #6)
markpkessinger This message was self-deleted by its author.
Volaris
(10,271 posts)but I agree with the decision...
When I bought my first car, my dad told me the following:
WHEN you get a ticket, and have to go in front of a Judge, it's "Yes sir, No sir, THANK YOU sir. All the time, EVERY time."
lol he was right.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)She did deserve it. I think most drugs should be decriminalized, but her attitude and actions show she isn't just a kid caught with weed, but someone with some issues. This may be the best thing to happened to her.
marybourg
(12,631 posts)(represented in the courtroom by the judge) we would have anarchy. A more current term for it would be a "failed state". So for the sake of a civil society, which benefits all, we accord the judicial system an outward show of respect. We're still allowed to THINK what we wish.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)I work at a job where I regularly get cursed and threatened. It's part of the job, unfortunately. I can't send people to jail, and really, I wouldn't. This guy...
Ian Iam
(386 posts)The girl is daft if she thought she could behave in this manner without consequence.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)This is because this pompous old man is a pompous old man with too much power...
msongs
(67,413 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)And unwise to flout it.
No sympathy. None.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I doubt he got his feelings hurt. 30 days is a lot and it may be revisited after a few days, but she did deserve to be held in contempt. He probably wanted this to get out so that others would know to behave in court.
If she was arrested high and drugs were still in her system i think he might revisit it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I think that not all contempt violations are the same so they would have to make clear in a statue what offenses get what time. I do not know the current guidelines on this is. I remember a case here in NYC when a man asked to be excused from jury service and he and the judge got into it and the judge gave him 15 days in jail. A higher jail threw the case out and the guy was free in an hour or so.
Logical
(22,457 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)One of my favorite appeal cases involved a guy being sentenced to six months, who then started dropping f-bombs. He got 30 days tacked on. He then says "fuck you for 30 days" and got another 30 days. He then tells the judge "fuck your mother with a stick" and gets another 30 days.
By the time he's done, he has six months for the conviction and something like 8 or 9 months for contempt. Upheld on appeal.
got what they deserved just like the young "lady" in the op
Renew Deal
(81,860 posts)I think he sees that this girl is out of control.
Logical
(22,457 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)She needed to be slapped silly. I applaud the judge.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)....and this was on top of calling her a thug, which, btw, does have plenty of unfortunate(even if not intended!) connotations of its own due to the ethnicity of said defendant.(before you jump on me and accuse me of stuff, I admit I made a mistake like this once a little while back.)
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I would imagine that in this case however, the precedent was most certainly not abused... regardless of whether you feel that said contempt should be ignored for the satisfaction of your own biases.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)you have to show the "judges abuse it many times"? You're blowing smoke.
Renew Deal
(81,860 posts)to have the law changed.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)circumstances.
She's just foul mouthed,rude,and clueless..
.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)gravity of the situation. That's true. But nobody should be defending the judge's errors, either, and yes, he made a few.
dballance
(5,756 posts)One is expected to show some respect for the court. Telling a judge to f**k himself is not respectful. In this country we have placed many limits on free speech. Remember the classic "you can't shout fire in a crowded theatre" when there's no fire argument. She exceeded one of those limits.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)We can be really dopey at DU.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)will be much more careful about mouthing off to a judge next time. Why on earth would a judge have to put up with that shit.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)She's the stupid one. The judge has the right to enforce his rules. He must maintain order in the courtroom or there would be complete anarchy.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)maybe the little bit-, I mean the young lady, will learn something from this experience.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)She looked like she was high.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)She appears to be in a County DOC jumpsuit, which means this is an arraignment hearing from an arrest the prior night.
How would she have managed to get as high as she appears in the video had she been locked up the night before?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Than on the street.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)in jail, not so much
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Some jails are a quantity over quality of processes. Not everyone is searched. Many holding areas resemble the seating area at a doctor's office. It can be very easy to get drugs in jail.
EastKYLiberal
(429 posts)RKP5637
(67,109 posts)
Kurska
(5,739 posts)But he such a hard judge shouldn't we cheer him.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)But 30 days. I know the girl was wrong. But why did the judge say “adios” to her? Does he say that to everyone, or just the ones with Hispanic names. IMO I think it's a dig at her. Maybe I am reading too much into this.
Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Also, if you listen to him, he clearly has a Spanish dialect.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I just read the story. It just seemed out of place. Something Archie Bunker would say. Thanks for the correction. I will watch the video now. LOL!
Okay, I got it now. She was the first one to say it, and next time I should watch the video. I usually do, but I thought that was all there was. The video makes a big difference.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)by saying "adios" to him. The judge caught that she was being offensive with her comment, and doubled the amount for bail, and then said "adios" back to her.
Jarhead1775
(43 posts)He had earlier said she could leave, and said "bye". She returned with a laugh and (in my opinion) a sarcastic "adios" with a laugh. Sounded like she was pushing buttons.
I think his remark was more of a "I won", than anything else, not due to being Hispanic.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)His name is Jorge Rodriguez-Chomat.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)Saying "fuck you" to a judge is about the dumbest in the world
love hate it, you must respect a judge in his/her court room.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)If you are smart, you will be respectful standing before a judge in a courtroom.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)assholes who deserve to be called out.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)that little rude young girl deserved every bit of it.
reorg
(3,317 posts)couldn't hold onto himself while leering at the girl and wishing her "bye, bye" after sending her back to prison. Disgusting little fuck.
RudynJack
(1,044 posts)he was quite kind to her. She was a little shit. He (hopefully) taught her a valuable lesson.
I'm far from a strict law and order kinda guy. But I have enough sense to know not to insult a judge, much less flip him off while in custody.
The judge wasn't mean, he wasn't angry, he was strict. As he should be. Can you imagine what our courts would be like if every defendant could do as they please? You couldn't run a court that way.
She deserved what she got.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)She was a disrespectful little twit who got exactly what she deserved.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)As others, on this site and the other, have pointed out, he did acknowledge that he had gone about things the wrong way.....and certainly, the defendant shouldn't have cussed him out, not in his courtroom anyhow.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)polite, never show your true feelings, and just take whatever bullshit the system throws at you. Respect is earned, not given. I don't care who you are, nobody is automatically entitled to respect just because of their job.
Yeah, it may be smart to be respectful of a judge. But it's also dishonest if that's not your true feelings. So who's really got more character? The person who lies and puts up a false front just to get off easy, or the person who says what they really feel and takes the consequences?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Though I think the smart thing to do would have been to wait until after she left the courtroom. At least then she wouldn't have been facing contempt of court charges, then.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)It's probably smarter to turn and run when in a battle, but we call those people cowards and shun them. We respect courage more, especially when it comes at personal cost.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I still think the cursing was a bad move, though.
What a dummy she is. And then the shock over actually having a consequence for her actions- if she were pulled over for speeding she would probably spit on the cop, curse him out, and then be flabbergasted that he doesn't let her out of the ticket with a warning.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I was left waiting in a hallway while the fucking judge took a two-hour lunch.
When she returned, I said "I'm glad you could make it".
I got 48 hours.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Sorry you got the 48 hours...but good on you!
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I was contesting a parking ticket.
I do not know how to park, parallel.
And I was ticketed for being outside of the curb.
So, I contested the ticket.
Pissed off the judge and had to pay the fine (and the 48 hours).
Now, I take take taxis.
DBH
MADem
(135,425 posts)Magistrates do. Their powers are quite limited.
They are appointed (patronage) positions.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But if you watch the video, you'll get the whole story. The judge was clearly in the wrong when he raised her bail to $10,000 with no valid reason to do so. Only when that happened, did she cuss at him.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)the Judge was clearly in the right. She showed disrespect if not downright contempt from the moment she appeared before him. He was hoping a doubling of her bail would knock some sense into her, but alas, she became even more of a jerk. I don't call it "character", I call it "stupid".
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)To be fair, it would have been better if she had better recognized the seriousness of the situation. But having watched the video a few times, it was clear that the actual disrespect on her part didn't start until after he raised her bond. And, frankly, if the judge didn't want her to leave the courtroom yet, he could have refrained from telling her "bye bye" as he did as 1:53 in the video. Now, being someone who used to watch a fair number of court shows(yes, I'll admit I used to like "Judge Judy" back in the day), I'd personally know that you are only supposed to leave when you are formally dismissed when the judge says, "This court is now adjourned", or something along those lines. She may not have known that, and regardless, that was an unfortunate mistake on her part.
But the judge still had no valid reason to double her bond before the cursing incident occurred, even if he may not have gone above the law. Had she done this just a few seconds earlier, that decision would have been more understandable.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts).. high or not, she was not showing the Court the proper respect and she was very flip and continuing to giggle when she told him "adios". When the judge says "dismissed", "adjourned", or "bye-bye", you shut your mouth and leave. Period. An expensive lesson for her and a lesson for you apparently as well.
He had every valid reason to throw her in jail from the beginning. He did not go above the law. He IS the LAW in his courtroom. And even if he/she "perceives" someone is acting disrespectfully, he/she can sentence that person to time in jail. Sorry if you cannot understand this. It is SOP in every courtroom I've ever been in.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Again, I do believe that she could have better recognized how serious this situation was.....not many would disagree with me there, I suspect. And I can understand that people's views on this may vary, but again, from appearances, she didn't appear to be openly, purposefully disrespectful(I'm not a believer in accidental disrespect, but some others may, though) until she cussed him out, which wasn't a smart move, IMO.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Especially when it's infringing on individual rights?
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)This should be obvious, but I hope you weren't disrespectful to your parents or your teachers. And I certainly hope you saw it as disrespectful when Rep Walsh shouted out during Obama's State of the Union speech. Certain things are simply disrespectful. Our courts are Constitutionally mandated as 1/3 of our government. They enforce "our" laws. Your right to free speech and to protest a particular court's actions are not being infringed. It is "disrespectful" to do so while before the Court.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Are you supposed to be respectful of a parent that beats you every night or molests you?
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)This judge did nothing close to molestation. The Court, by its very existence, deserves respect is all I am saying. Respect is not "earned" by each individual judge. One must show respect in order to receive respect. She never showed any respect. She was in contempt from the moment she walked into the courtroom, but he showed tremendous restraint. He showed her more respect than she deserved - despite the fact she had not earned one scintilla.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Those who wage it deserve no respect.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)But it would behoove you to treat law enforcement w/ respect when they pull you over.
Luciferous
(6,081 posts)Renew Deal
(81,860 posts)Hopefully she serves it all.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)kick down your door in the middle of the night and force your entire family down on the ground, ransack your house, and haul you away in handcuffs and then stick you in some shithole where racist gangs rule, sexual assault is common, and you will likely never be employable again by the time you get out. Welcome to the drug war.
Respect? Shit, I'd laugh at you if it weren't so sad.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Judges execute search and arrest warrants for drugs, and they sentence people to jail for drugs. Yes, judges do that. Did you know that the sky is blue also?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)It's something people who are older know, it is called respect.
Why would someone knowingly do something so rude?
Unless of coourse the person was looking for a book or movie.
If one is trying to weasel out of a crime, no matter how big or not, telling the court to (curseword) is not the way to do it.
A little politeness goes a long way.
Judges don't do fishing trips.
If one doesn't respect, one is showing anarchy.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)A little politeness goes a long way, 'eh? That's a two way street my friend. Arresting me, locking me up, dressing me in some goofy outfit, and taking away my freedom over something that didn't hurt anybody doesn't strike me as being very polite. But apparently I'm supposed to ignore that and show the fascist court responsible for it nothing but respect.
Fuck your respect. If you don't respect me or my right to put into my body what I choose, I will never respect you. And that goes for anybody, judges included. I'd rather do 30 days than be somebody who I'm not. When my 30 days are up, at least I can look in the mirror and know that I was honest and held true to my principles, and didn't bow my head down and go, "yes sir" and "no sir" to my oppressors like a butt-kissing little bitch.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The judge has done her a big favor by teaching her a valuable life lesson.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Decorum is respect for the court or other governmental proceedings.
Hopefully the teen will learn a lesson...
MadHound
(34,179 posts)You're not in the principle's office anymore, you're in the real world, and have to deal with real world consequences.
I don't agree with her being popped for a drug offense, but you've got to learn that you can't be act like a bratty middle schooler in front of the judge.
Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
Post removed
quinnox
(20,600 posts)with that attitude you would be lucky to only get 30 days in the county jail!
reorg
(3,317 posts)so as not to show any "authority figure" my real feelings 
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Anyone who thinks they can mouth off to a judge in their courtroom is a fool who will learn their lesson the hard way.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)the problem in ALL states.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But she shouldn't have cussed him out, not in court at least. That was a case of bad judgement on her part.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)and sober, 30 days is just enough time to completely detox.
18, pretty girl, and so whacked out on drugs/alcohol that she's screaming expletives in court, usually leads down a bad path. Hopefully she will contemplate the direction her life is taking and can lean on someone for support.
Nolimit
(142 posts)I was trying to get a read on her body language the first part of the video. She looked pretty nervous and submissive.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)The cursing thing is obviously different.
840high
(17,196 posts)
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)to not tell a judge "fuck you". Hopefully she'll learn a lesson, but I doubt it.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)sylvi
(813 posts)Hopefully, her attorney is advising her to do just that.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I'm sorry, but 30 days is way too fucking much for something like this.
And having watched the video, I noticed that the judge first told her "Bye bye." at 1:54, and then she replied, "Adios".....and then the judge upped her bond to $10,000......and only then did she flip out.
Not the smartest decision, but the judge was being kind of an idiot before Ms. Soto finally DID cuss. And frankly, I'm a bit flabbergasted by some of the really stupid comments that were made on the site. Here's one of the nastier ones.
Never heard such a load of enabling b.s. in all my life. She's lucky she wasn't standing before one of Castro's courts...hey, maybe that's what this animal needs.
Thankfully, though, there were some voices of sanity out there, like Orestes Ippeau and Megan Shaunassy.
(Also, kudos to Ms. Soto's lawyer for doing his job well.
) blueamy66
(6,795 posts)deserved what she got. Anyone who thinks differently is sadly mistaken.
JI7
(89,250 posts)from the beginning she was acting like that . it wasn't just when she left.
watch the video.
Recovered Repug
(1,518 posts)
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)and then the judge decided to escalate it from there. She needs help, not a criminal record and readily available drugs in jail. I bet her bloodstream was still loaded with it, its not like Xanax abusers follow the directions and take just one.
What if she said "aloha"? How would everybody in the peanut gallery react if a few months from now if Kai, the rad, home-free hero was in court for some bullshit charge.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)xoom
(322 posts)
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)It also shows how completely arbitrary the bail system is, that bail can be doubled on a whim. I seem to recall that "equal justice under law" thing, but it's been a while.
After seeing judges who sentence kids for profit, judges who tie black defendants to chairs, and judges who pump their penises under the bench, I have a hard time believing that judges should be any more respected than the police-beaten defendants in front of them.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)where the judge has all the power. What on earth do you think contempt of court means?
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)without due process based on their personal feelings of offense. Proclaiming that someone is in contempt and having them hauled off to jail, with little to no chance of appealing (after arbitrarily increasing their bail for a previous offense), isn't due process in any country but (possibly) Saudi Arabia.
The fact that you think judges should have the power to trump due process concerns me, but since neither one of us is likely in a position to affect change in a perverted system, it's all academic.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)How on earth is due process effected by some little twit mouthing off to a judge? I don't telling someone not to behave like a spoiled brat when in front of a judge is in any effects due process which means getting your chance to fight the charges, face your accuser, have a lawyer. It certainly does not mean behaving like a moron. And it certainly isn't the same as a culture that cuts peoples limbs and heads off for crimes.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)
JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)Police used to arrest people on obscenity charges for doing that. A high (Supreme?) court ruled that saying "fuck you" or extending the middle finger is unlikely to sexually arouse an officer or anyone else.
The court purposely noted in it's decision that it's more likely to provoke anger, and that's the key. While police can't charge you with public obscenity anymore, they can find another misdemeanor, like the proverbial spitting on the sidewalk. The judge didn't sentence her for disrespect, he sent her to jail for the drug offense. He has the ability to dole out punishment as he sees fit within reason, and this woman just learned that. That's why we're polite to judges.
At least she won't have to register her address every six months for a sex crime.
No lawyer would advise a client to flip a cop off or tell the judge to go fuck himself unless he was behind on his student loans or BMW payments.
panader0
(25,816 posts)"All he could say was F yous all, F yous all F yous all"
I wish I could link to it--a great tune.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)She got what she deserved. Hopefully now she has learned how you behave in court.
Daninmo
(119 posts)I'm not excusing the disrespect when she said FU to the judge, however, I thought both were being a bit "playful" up to the Adios part. I wonder if she is Hispanic also like the judge appears to me to be.
There may be no room for playful in a court. I dunno, I am just a construction worker, no legal background. I honestly think she thought she was being cute when she said "adios" instead of bye-bye. She may be bi-lingual and didn't think too much about it.
Either way, I bet she is regretting it now.
If it were me, I would probably be quaking in my shoes being presented to a judge for a law violation. Yes sir, no sir, your honor, etc...
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)
polly7
(20,582 posts)Maybe she's used to speaking Spanish and saying adios is just normal or her. I'm missing something here.
Luciferous
(6,081 posts)sadalien
(62 posts)judges have way too much power in this country
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)Advice given to me by an old Maltese sailor when I was 16. She's learning that the hard way.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Where's the respect shown to her by parading her around in a orange jumpsuit and taking away her freedom for simple drug possession? A victimless crime in a drug war that most so-called enlightened DU'ers claim to oppose, and yet ultimately take the side of when a victim of it loses their cool in a high-stress situation.
I'll come out and say it, FUCK THAT JUDGE. Little high and mighty coward that sits in his lame ass robe and ruins people lives all day for victimless crimes and then acts like a little bitch when somebody gets mad at him for it. Fuck him and anybody else that wages the bullshit drug war against American citizens.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)What the hell is he thinking?
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Shouldn't follow laws that are unjust. If every judge in America refused to do that, the drug war would end tomorrow. Only cowards participate in this holocaust that is the drug war and then hide behind following the law. Nobody made you become a judge. You chose it. Accept responsibility for it.
Hmmm....accept responsibility for it, where have I heard that before?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You want judges deciding which laws need to be followed? You don't see anything wrong with that scenario? And really, using hyperbolic language like holocaust hardly helps your case.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)not to mention plenty of other ethnicities, has been decimated by the drug war. So yeah, I think holocaust definitely applies.
Hey I don't know about judges deciding laws. All I know is, I would never become a judge knowing I had to participate in this fraud known as the drug war. The individual in this video apparently had no such qualms. He chose it, he worked for it, he got it. His choice, nobody else's.
So in my mind, that makes him guilty of furthering these crimes against the American people.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)respect your opinion and agree that the drug war has not only been a failure in execution but has fallen on minority communities to a MUCH large extent than any others. There is much more to justice than the drug war and when you're in a courtroom, the judge is king.
I've known many judges and I felt they all took their oath seriously. The drug war is not their fault.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Not the cops who arrest people, not the judges who imprison them, not the politicians who simply say they're doing the will of the people. Nope, it's never anybody's fault is it? Apparently the only people who are never required to take any responsibility for their actions are the ones who enforce the law, even though out of just about everybody, they are the ones who exercised the most free will in attaining their inquisitorial jobs.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)I have known a number of junkies and you and I have paid over a hundred thousand in medical bills due to their health problems from drugs and their inability to pay for their treatments.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)And forget the costs. That's a separate issue from number one: whether or not one has the legal right to do with their bodies what they want, and number two, the girl in this video. You can maybe make an argument that society has no obligation to pay for their health care costs if somebody wrecks their bodies, but that's a separate issue from whether or not one should be jailed for popping a chill pill. It was mentioned she had no priors, that she was employed, and that the drug she was arrested for having was Xanax.
Xanax doesn't get you high. It mellows you out. That's it. How do you know this girl doesn't need it to function? How do you know she doesn't have anxiety issues? The real crime committed here was the government messing with her life for possessing something that should have should have been easily available to her if she was paid a fair wage and had health insurance, both of which are fundamental rights.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)nobody else's. Everyone is else doing their job enforcing the laws as written (and please, no comparison to nazi's - that'll just piss me off). The lawmakers are the ones with an interest in keeping young men in jails....for seeming to be "tough on crime" and nonsense like that. I don't blame the cops or the judges at all (as a group, there are individuals in both those groups that are out and out slime).
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)I do. If you really care about justice, you wouldn't become either of those professions until these unjust policies end.
And I don't care if it pisses you off if I mention Nazis. It probably pisses you off because you know there's some validity to the claim that, "I was only following orders" doesn't always cut it. It didn't work for the Nazis who perpetuated the Holocaust. It doesn't work for me when discussing those who enforce the drug war.
In fact, at least the Nazis had the excuse that if they didn't go along with it, they could be killed. What's a modern day American policeman's or judges excuse?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to the comparison to the nazis is that cops and judges shouldn't be the ones deciding what laws need to be followed and which don't. That's a path I want no part of. To say arresting someone for breaking a law is the same as shoving people into ovens doesn't do your argument any good at all.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)I said the excuse, "I was only following orders" doesn't always cut it. And it doesn't.
Do you even know what one drug conviction can do to a person? Forget about the trauma that is jail for a moment. What about how it messes with one's life? How it severely limits employment opportunities? How that one little "mistake" as we often like to call it, can have permanent repercussions? And all over some shit that really should be legal anyways? And then do this on a massive scale, to millions of people, creating a permanent underclass of people who can no longer get good jobs, so they often have to turn to crime just to be able to live, and then creating a permanent class of prisoners that can be used for slave labor and to make corporations rich?
While that may not be as bad as shoving people into ovens, it's still a massive crime committed on a massive scale against a massive number of people.
And have you ever been to prison? I haven't but I have been to jail (protesting the Iraq War and prop 8). It's a scary and hard place. Racism rules. Gang mentality rules. Violence rules. It's a horrible place to send anybody, much less people for possessing a mere Xanax. Prison is even worse.
Knowing all this, I would NEVER participate in a system that brutalizes people to this extent for victimless crimes. And I don't think very highly of people that do. And I sure as hell am not going to condemn a young girl for losing her temper with a judge that perpetuates this cruel and vicious fraud known as the drug war. FUCK RESPECT. This judge and this system deserve none.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to avoid both jail and prison....don't break the law. Fight to get them changed. I'm way more concerned with those falsely accused of crimes which happens every single day. I think MJ should be legal and it probably will be in NY in the next few years. I'm hoping you're making a distinction between pot and things like coke or meth.
I too saw the inside of jail cell for a brief period of time (was in a car stopped for speeding, they found weed in the glove box and charged me with loitering because I was in the back seat, which I never really understood).
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)but that still doesn't mean I think somebody should be incarcerated for possessing ANY drug. For harder drugs, I favor the system that certain European countries have in which you can actually get your drug from the government if you register as an addict. That way, you don't push addicts into the criminal underworld, and that way you'll never have to worry about them saying the dastardly word, "adios" to a judge again. Either way, small time users should never be jailed, I don't care what drug they have on them.
And I'm going to call bullshit on the whole, "don't break the law and you'll be fine" meme. Forget about all the innocent people in prison, until not too long ago, sodomy was illegal in much of the United States. I guess all those gays and horny straights just shouldn't have broken the law and they would have been fine, 'eh? Or all those potheads? Never mind that it should be your right to smoke herb if you want, or that it's your right to fuck somebody in the ass if you want, just don't break the law. That's what's really important. Just be a good little brainwashed American and do what you're told.
The law is often wrong. Bad laws often get changed because people break them. If Rosa Parks had never broken the law, Obama wouldn't be president now.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)me a braindead robot for following the law, I truly could not care less. While Ms. Parks was part of the civil rights movement, it was hardly just her that got things moving, thousands marched, engaged in civil disobedience and went to jail. People got hurt, and sometimes killed. It didn't happen overnight. Dr. King chose peaceful remedies to change the way people thought in order to get the laws changed. You seem to think mouthing off to a judge is the same thing...I don't.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)I just don't think it's such a terrible thing that warrants 30 days in jail and I also think it's understandable and forgivable especially when she shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Everybody is all, "You got to show a judge respect." Why? What's he done that warrants such respect? Throw a bunch of non-violent drug offenders in jail? Good for him. Watta guy.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And it wasn't even for an illegal drug, it was just fucking Xanax.....
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Which, I'm guessing, this girl doesn't have, given that she only makes $200 a week. It's literally hundreds of dollars for a bottle of 30. So this girl, who for all we know may NEED it, gets some illegally, and I'm supposed to get all down on her because she got mad at a judge for upping her bail because she said, "Adios?"
Um no, I won't. I blame the system for making her medicine so expensive in the first place. I blame it for not making sure poor workers like her have health insurance. I blame it for jailing people like her for committing consensual crimes. I blame thin-skinned cowardly judges who are so drunk on their own power that they can't stand it when somebody tells 'em to fuck off for putting them through this charade.
Actually, I'll come out and say it even though I know it's not going to be popular. I actually like this girl a lot. She's cool, and she didn't take no shit from that fascist pig of a judge.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's like a year's supply for me, but that was the price. High quote was 27. So it is not hundreds or even tens of dollars around here. Sorry about that.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)because my girlfriend uses Xanax and hers is way more expensive than that. And yes, she goes to Costco also. You probably get the generic kind, Alazopram or whatever its called.
The real shit, in the dosage she needs, it goes for about $5 a pill.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)But yeah, the system does have its problems......
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)It is a Schedule IV controlled drug. And, it should be. It's not something like pot or mushrooms.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)The only thing that bothered me was that, although it is unfortunately true that the defendant seemed to not understand the full gravity of the situation, and she did eventually cross the line(although only after the judge doubled her bail, and not only without reason, but after he said "bye bye" to her, thereby initiating the sequence of events).....it bothers me that some don't seem to be willing to admit that the judge made mistakes as well.
As for the Xanax itself, I think it's possible she may not have been able to get insurance. She does mention early on that she was only making about $200 a week.....you can't afford a lot with that kinda money.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)A night or a weekend in jail for contempt, MAYBE, but 30 days is absurd. But she should never have been there in the first place.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)It's stressful. And I was there willingly and only for a short time. I can only imagine what it must be like to be one of these people barely getting by on their meager salary and having their world turned upside down for something as trivial as possessing a Xanax.
That's the real crime here. If you systematically wreck people's lives, you can't expect them to always take it with a smile and be R-E-S-P-E-C-T-F-U-L. And you can't fault people for losing it here and there when thrown into the crucible of horrors known as the American prison system.
NightOwwl
(5,453 posts)to put himself through school. Maybe he didn't.
Maybe he came from a poor family. Maybe he didn't.
Maybe he donates to liberal causes. Maybe he doesn't.
Point is, we - and you - know nothing about him.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)and I know he enforces the drug war. Apart from that I know nothing, and don't care to, as it is irrelevant.
Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
Post removed
JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)Maybe while in lockup she can practice her free speech on fellow prisoners and guards and see how that works out. This may be a great life lesson on manners and respect.
I know some here are calling foul, but the first ammendment would be better called "the right to free expression". The judge expressed his reaction to her comments and so will people in jail.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Okay, Johnny, before you go jumping on me, in my reply to the OP, I readily acknowledged that cussing certainly wasn't the smartest move on her part. But when you watch the video, she only did that as a reaction to the Judge doubling her bail, without provocation or reason, mind you. That was just a plain assholish move, and certainly something I wouldn't have done if I were a judge(Or, at least, I would hope).
JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)...and "without provocation or cause" is key, but as I understand it, a judge can dole out punishment as he sees fit within reason. If he gave her 30 days for the drug charge, what's her defense? That's why I call a judge "sir" until he decides what my traffic fine is.
Even after he makes his initial decision, I'd think he could change his mind and remand the penalty if I'm stupid enough tell him what I think of his mother. Technically, the OP's subject line is incorrect. The judge didn't sentence her for saying "fuck you" since she wasn't charged for that.
That's (the only reason?) why we're respectful of authority in a civilization, something I learned at a very young age when I pooped on my mothers new living room carpet. There was no appeal process. LOL
(I'm not a lawyer)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And yes, I think she could have been a tad more serious before the incident as well.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I hope she gains a little wisdom, and some humility.
GETTINGTIRED
(330 posts)
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)court fucked up,laughing,acting a fool,things are not going to go well.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and her finally realizing that her behavior had consequences. The judge seemed in a good mood, was willing to go fairly easy on her, and she blew it.
If this makes me an authoritarian in your eyes, I wear the label proudly.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)judge to fuck him/herself. I assume you'll have the courage of your convictions and do just that.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)You don't hand opportunities to someone who can imprison you pretty much at a whim, which is exactly what that judge did.
That said, this thread is sure revealing about which DUers have that authoritarian/punishist streak in them.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Granted, Ms. Soto could have conducted herself better in the second half of the video, as well as trying to get a better grasp on the situation.
And I do find it sad that some people on this site do indeed seem to have an authoritarian streak on some things. I was hoping we'd be a little more civil than that.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)People who support this type of punishment are a big problem in the US. You may not be racist but your position supports the racist who decimate the African American community with this type of "justice." Makes me sick to see people treated like animals (and we know for a fact from the data we have 30 days in jail for this girl will not leave her better off 70% chance it leads her down a far darker road then ca month of community service would have.)
Only violent offenders need to be locked away.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)A stiff fine and community service for Bernie Madoff.
I guess you and I have different ideas about justice.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)That would include the bankers, but not this young woman.
I guess you and I have differrent ideas about justice.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)He took for the most part a bunch of rich peoples money, so justice would be having his money taken. An eye for an eye is a brutal form of justice, we like to think we have evolved, but as you so clearly indicate we have devolved if anything.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And most of these same people out there, in this nation, who applaud this kind of thing, who refuse to see that officers of the law, (while they should ideally be respected) are not perfect and do screw up sometimes, would, at least deep down inside, be more than happy to see REAL crooks, like those jerk-offs in Wall Street who plundered the nation's economy and Bush's cronies, who sent us into one illegal-from-the-start war(Iraq) and totally botched up another(Afghanistan operations started under Clinton, but Bush escalated it, and subsequently made it a failure).
There's also a few that may recognize that Bush's wars were failures and that Wall Street shouldn't have gotten away with their shit, but they end up parroting some of these hypocritical Republican wingnut lines anyhow, with this "tough-on-crime" B.S., even though they may not realize what they're doing......and unfortunately, we do have a few of them right here on DU.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)She won't be in for 30 days, not if she apologizes to the COURT. Probably a few days to a week.
Xanax is also a Schedule IV drug, and you need a script for it. It isn't like Motrin.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)To recap, in this thread this girl is some version of stupid, a brat, disrespectful, smirking, doped up, dumb, smart mouthed, clueless, and showing contempt, etc., etc., etc. All of which is probably true. Which, by this thread's judgement, is rightly punishable by jail. Huh?
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)As is common in the cases.
Basically for me though I don't like privileged snots like Penelope Soto who get away with so much shit that poorer wouldn't be able to get away with.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Response to Skip Intro (Reply #132)
Cali_Democrat This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)30 days is way too long and an abuse of power. A weekend would have been enough. Not that 30 days wouldn't help this woman, it would. But judges aren't kings and 30 days for saying what is on one's mind is far too long. Her technical offense was disrupting the proceedings of the Court, not insulting an official, which is free speech. The punishment here does not fit the crime.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)the f*cking judge should be in jail......
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Because, you know, simple respect for the law and officers of the law means a person is an authoritarian.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)Respect for the law over common sense is the very definition of authoritarianism.
RILib
(862 posts)It's dealing with contempt of court, which is illegal.
A weekend in jail would be pretty much nothing. 30 days gives her some time to think and to detox.
derby378
(30,252 posts)Sorry, folks, but the judge made the right call. I don't think any American court is required to submit itself to discourtesy and nonsense.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)
What did she say? What does that mean? Was she too stoned to answer a simple question?
"It's worth money."
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)A rapper.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)
Tikki
(14,557 posts)The prosecutor or defense lawyer (which ever the case) should know their client well enough to either
warn them not to use offensive language or inform the judge about the person giving testimony or the accused's
life history to know this is how some are going to talk, forever.
Why did the judge use the term "adios" and does he use that term with nonHispanic defendants?
Tikki
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)I was in court and the case before me was being sentenced. Judge gave the guy 3 mo in County lockup. Guy laughed and said I can do that standing on my head in the shower. Boom, gavel down, well here is another 30 days for you to dry off.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)I was pulled over for bum inspection, cop was looking in the car, saw the end of a wooden pipe sticking out from the arm rest. Off to jail I go, get charged for misdemeanor paraphernalia with a $250 cash bond.
Laughing I said I had that in my pocket .....
Boom.
Felony possession of narcotics paraphernalia with a $25,000 bond.
"got that in your pocket?"
Three probationary years later with deferred adjudication .....
Yea, it's within your rights to be a jackass to the lawman, just do not be surprised when that entire book comes down on your head.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I am sure the answer to the judges first question is yes.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)How can anyone justify his decision to raise the defendant's bond to $10,000 without prior provocation(not saying you yourself did, of course)? That's what caused her to flip out, and yes, she could have handled it better.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)But his lack of innocence in no way negates her stupidity.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And, I think she could have handled it better. It does kinda bother me that some people aren't taking his failures into account as well, though.
Soundman
(297 posts)Here is a link to a long version http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6hBjiiIDtm8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6hBjiiIDtm8
If you don't see and hear that the girl was being totally disrespectful, you are choosing to be blind and deaf. They were trying to determine her financial means so they could set bail. She was asked repeatedly to give a value to her possessions/jewelry, and she was not cooperating. I missed her one comment about the value, was it a "Rick Roll"?
She got what she deserved plain and simple.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)And, btw, I never once said or implied she wasn't being disrespectful, period.
All I said was that the actual disrespect, if we go by the definition of disrespect as being on purpose only, did not start until she cussed him out. Of course, some will argue for another definition which includes both intentional AND unintentional examples(though I accept the first position)
But if you are implying that she was being willfully disrespectful, from the beginning, and not just after that certain point, then you, sir, would be the one engaging in willful ignorance.
Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
pauldemmd195j Message auto-removed
Smilo
(1,944 posts)................ this was excessive and unwarranted. A good lecture would have worked. 30 days is not only excessive for her, but now the county has to pay for the Judge's ego being hurt.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Also, come on, what kind of a judge suddenly decides to double a defendant's bond without prior provocation?
The amount may not have been colossal in this case, but still.....now, had she cussed him out prior to the problem, I could understand. But the cursing, while not a wise choice in my view, was in reaction to raising the bond, and not its cause.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)kiranon
(1,727 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Here's an interesting little tidbit for y'all:
http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Jorge_Rodriguez-Chomat
BTW, I was only being half-serious with that last reply to Kestrel here.....
RILib
(862 posts)Civility 1, Soto 0.
SayWut
(153 posts)Mr. Gambini, didn't I tell you that the next time you appear in my court that you dress appropriatel
tblue37
(65,391 posts)This young woman obviously felt she could say or do anything in any company, in any context. Now she knows better. With some luck, she will behave more circumspectly in the future.
People who cannot control their antisocial behavior end up constrained by all sorts of self-created barriers.
tblue37
(65,391 posts)to deal with the girl's contempt case. Probably he intends to have the lawyer talk to the young idiot and tell her to apologize and stop acting the fool. If she does that, my guess is that the judge will withdraw the contempt citation and perhaps even reduce the bail to the original $5000.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)And, if she apologizes, I bet he drop the CoC charge.
JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)He handed down the sentence for drug abuse. She was never charged with cursing at a judge.
Apparently, the girl thought the judge's decision was final, but it isn't as long as she's standing before him. Had she done this the next day on the street, he couldn't do anything about it... unless she landed back in his courtroom the next week, in which case I hope God has mercy on her, because she has to know the judge won't.
Justice may be blind, but I guess we now know it isn't deaf. hahaha
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)My mistake.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts) 
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not exactly for "cursing at the judge" but rather for cursing in a courtroom (hopefully). The idea of the courtroom is not that the judge has to be catered to or comfortable, but that it is a place of law and deliberation and should be stately and have decorum.
tavernier
(12,389 posts)Give us any subject, no matter how complex or cut-and-dried simple, and within seconds we'll be arguing and beating the bejeezus out of each other, hair flying, blood running.
As a great man once said, I don't belong to any organized political party; I am a democrat.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)markpkessinger
(8,401 posts). . . and for very good reason. The maintenance of order in legal proceedings, including the insistence that due respect be shown to the court, is to ensure fairness to ALL parties involved. And it is this authority, invested in judges, that enables judges to rein in out-of-control lawyers, defendants and witnesses. Granted, some judges have abused this authority, but this is hardly one of those cases.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)15 days for being disrespectful and 15 days for being stupid.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Advice such as "Don't be flip and disrespectful in front of the judge or you can make your situation even worse than it is?"
It seems like common sense to me. I had to go to court for a traffic ticket at 17, and I didn't need anyone to tell me to be respectful. I couldn't fathom going to court for something serious and acting so disrespectful.
bayareamike
(602 posts)30 days is not that bad of a punishment for contempt. Receiving a few months in jail for contempt of court is not uncommon. She's a brat.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts) Javaman
(62,530 posts)posted in another related article the judge has a history of being a jerk.
The teen in question was very polite during the entire procedure until the judge leveled a ridiculous sentence on her possession charge. It was then that the teen said "Fuck You" and gave him the figure. Then he leveled the contempt charge.
No one is completely innocent here, but given the fact that judge acted like a jerk didn't help the situation in the least.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)That drug is very harmful to people who take it without any need.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)It sounds like an "old and crotchety" judge is exactly what she needed.
cherish44
(2,566 posts)Thems the cold hard facts. Hope she learned a lesson.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)1) Public defenders are earnest but overworked people.
2) In a democracy no man or woman is better than another man or woman but that doesn't mean we get to disrespect one another with impunity.