Native American Confronts Protesters on Illegal Immigration (wow)

[DainBramaged]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aaf_1360011654


Got them posers good

“Y’all f*cking illegal. You’re all illegal. You’re all illegal!

“We didn’t invite none of you here!

“We’re the only native Americans here.

“That’s right. We’re the only native Americans here. Y’all are all illegal. We didn’t invite none of you! We didn’t invite none of you here. Get on, get on, get on with your bogus arguments.”

[Ed Suspicious]

1. Hello greatest! (greatest thing I saw today anyway) nt

[sdfernando]

2. Well...if you want be technical about it...

Native Americans aren't "Native" either. They migrated over a land bridge from Asia. That said, I think this is AWESOME. Good on them for calling out the protesters!

[Sivafae]

9. Yet somehow I get the feeling that when they traveled here by land bridge they didn't try to impose

Their diseases, religion and morals on the people that were already here. Wait....

[sdfernando]

14. I'm 100% with you on that bud!

[RebelOne]

23. Yeah, wait .... what people? n/t

[Mr Dixon]

78. AGREED

[Brother Buzz]

11. There is new speculation they arrived by water first...

two thousand years before the migration corridor opened up. Good read in this month's Smithsonian on how the Clovis model is collapsing as pre-Clovis finds are gaining acceptance in the science community with 'reservation'.

[Cha]

13. Wonder where they did arrive from, then?

Fascinating.

[Brother Buzz]

19. West coast by Asia

East coast by Europe is kinda iffy, but it's out there, too. Africa couldn't book a direct connection.

[Cha]

20. Thanks Brother Buzz!

[a la izquierda]

31. Check out this link on Monte Verde, Chile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verde

[Cha]

98. Thanks for the link, a la izquierda

Much to learn about.. these anthopologists are amazing!

[Blanks]

88. Ancient aliens... Obviously.

[sdfernando]

16. I'm going to have to read up on that.

Thanks for the heads up.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

36. Who were the giants that were stone builders?

http://www.ancientamerican.com/aa/index.php/ancient-american-videos

and this is almost an hour long:

Mysterious Stone Chambers & Giants Discovered in New England- Jim Vieira

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

38. And the Gavin Menzies book "The Lost Empire of Atlantis"

He talks about Minoan boats coming up the Mississippi and mining copper by the Great Lakes, the start of the 'Bronze Age.'

[Posteritatis]

94. Meh. Gavin Menzies talks about a lot of things. (nt)

[Brother Buzz]

39. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend

I've listened to Jim Vieira on Coast to Coast. Fun entertainment.

[freshwest]

51. I would love to go visit there. Thanks for the video and link.

[RebelOne]

85. Very, very interesting. This is the first I have ever heard of the mound builders. n/t

[blackspade]

45. The Clovis-first arguement has been dead for a decade for most younger archaeologists.

Dillehay's work in Chile has compellingly pushing back the settlement timeline to at least 17,000 BP.
The Smithsonian article was good, but it didn't do a good job of pointing out that the pre-Clovis sites are held to a much higher scientific threshold than other archaeological sites.

[Brother Buzz]

48. I thought they did a reasonable job of explaining it to this pedestrian

Dillehay's Monte Verde site was mentioned and led me to the conclusion it might be considered the bellwether that turned the game.

[blackspade]

49. I don't disagree really.

As a professional archaeologist, I'm always looking at data, so that weakness of the article stood out for me.
You are correct though, about it being a bellwether.
I was working at the University of Kentucky when Tom hosted the pre-Clovis deniers. It was actually super cool to be able to talk to some of these folks mentioned in the article in person even though I didn't agree with them.
Honestly, the 'controversy' about Clovis first reminds me of the dinosaur community battles over the asteroid impact extinction theory.
It rattled so many careers that folks flipped out. Same in this case as well just like the ongoing battles over climate change.

[Apophis]

53. Actually, no.

If you're talking about the Monte Verde site, that data is still suspect. Clovis-first is still the officially accepted model for the peopling of the Americas.

I'm an archaeologist, if you're wondering about my credentials.

[blackspade]

66. I have to disagree.

You would be one of the few archaeologists I have spoken with in my 20+ years in the field that hold to the Clovis-first model.
The pre-Clovis data is there whether the Clovis first crowd wants to admit it or not.
The biggest problem is ego, which has blinded many of the old guard in archaeology from accepting a changed paradigm.

[Apophis]

67. I'm in grad school for archaeology.

We're still being taught the Clovis-first model as being correct, even after discussing sites like Monte Verde and Meadowcroft Rockshelter.

I worked in the CRM field in the Upper Midwest for a few years before that and the Clovis-first model is still accepted.

[blackspade]

71. Which program?

I'm curious who runs it.
That is usually a good indicator of what gets taught, especially in prehistoric archaeology.
Maybe I just work with progressive thinkers in the field, but I can't think of a single Clovis-first proponent from field-techs to PIs that I have worked with in the last 10 years.

[Apophis]

52. Ah. The Solutrean Hypothesis.

I'm in graduate school for archaeology.

[Brother Buzz]

55. Evidence of the Solutrean hypothesis is all wet

I understand it, most evidence that might prove the Solutrean Hypothesis is underwater so it may be a long slog until the next ice age uncovers it.

[Cleita]

77. Still makes them first nation no matter how they arrived. n/t

[Brother Buzz]

80. There are wackadoodle theories out there implying they weren't the first

http://www.ancientamerican.com/aa/index.php/ancient-american-videos

[Cleita]

86. I know it's the Caucasians got here first. BS.

I got into a big argument with a white supremacy enthusiast about Kennewick Man who claimed he was white. It turns out he is Native American but there are those out there who refuse to believe it.

http://www.nps.gov/archeology/kennewick/index.htm

The fact is that even if a few Caucasians came over in prehistoric times, they never established populations so therefore those who claim this are not direct descendents of any that might have come over.

[Brother Buzz]

87. No, no, no

Jim Vieira's eight foot giants with double rows of teeth are not of Caucasian origin. I'm not up to speed on this crap, but I believe they are trying convince us giants were here long before modern man displaced them; a Clovis point hefted onto a fine stick wins every time against a giant mason wielding a bolder.

[reverend_tim]

89. What about the large sized red headed cave men?

These "cavemen" were indigenous to North America until killed off by the tribes we currently call native americans. I know this is off the point, from the original post, but there were others. I did enjoy the video clip.

[Cleita]

96. Perhaps you would have some information links to the red headed cave men to share with us? n/t

[reverend_tim]

106. these are fun -

http://ironlight.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/nevadas-mysterious-cave-of-the-red-haired-giants/

http://www.dhamurian.org.au/anthropology/neanderthal1.html

[reverend_tim]

107. and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si-Te-Cah

[Cleita]

109. I think I'm gonna have to place these guys with Sasquatch being there

aren't any remains to look at. Sorry legend isn't enough until you get proof.

[reverend_tim]

110. okay, but there are bones.

The history chanel 2 did a program on it.
Sasquatch is still here.

[Cleita]

111. History channel also does a lot of speculative programs about

Jesus and the last days and such. They are not the best scientific source. I used to know a guy who hunted Sasquatch. He was a Korean war vet and suffered from PTSDs severe enough for the army to give him a disability pension. I never found him to be crazy but evidently the VA did because of his obsession with Sasquatch and I did think his quest was quiotic. He never found Sasquatch, nor will anyone else. With civilization encroaching into the wilderness as it has in the last hundred years he/she would have been flushed out by now. I myself am a wilderness lover and in my travels I have found a few spots in Idaho and Montana that are still untouched by man and actually too small to host even a small group of primates. Mostly the logging and mining industries have encroached on most of it.

[jtuck004]

101. Didn't we all arrive by water first?

Or is that a lie from the pit of hell?

[Brother Buzz]

102. I do not disagree

[jtuck004]

103. That sure tells the truth. What a progression. n/t

[Cha]

15. Then they would be called First Nation.

[Posteritatis]

95. They's what they're generally called in Canada, actually. (nt)

[Cha]

97. That's where I gleaned it from.. :)

[Cleita]

112. Alaska too. I have noticed the term creeping into the

vocabulary of the lower 48 with those tribes beginning to adopt the term.

[Posteritatis]

113. It's a term I'm quite okay with spreading

I've always loved that one - it's less utterly inaccurate than "Indian" and a lot less patronizing than "native."

[yellerpup]

24. The migration over land bridge from Asia

is disputed information. Many tribes dispute it; it doesn't go with our creation legends. I think this young father's protest is awesome, too.

[Brother Buzz]

29. DNA supports it

Scientists looked at mtDNA from many Native Americans and many Asians. Based on their DNA, Native Americans belong to five different groups. Groups 1-4 are closely related to Asian people. The fifth group is most closely related European or Western Asian people. So it seems most Native Americans are originally from Asia. However, it seems there are some whose origins are from Europe.

[yellerpup]

32. I understand.

But, they didn't have to come over a land bridge. According to legend, our people came from the South, which leads me to speculate that those Asian genes may have come by sea first to South America and then migrated north. Vikings trolled the coasts for centuries before the invasion from the British Isles and they would have left genetic imprints, so that isn't surprising. When Pangea broke up we assume (with evidence uncovered to date) that the only people who survived were in Africa; we don't know for sure that no one was alive on this side of the globe when that happened.

[Brother Buzz]

34. As I pointed out upthread

Oh, Pangea broke up over a hundred millions years ago; dinosaurs got separated, not humans. Oldest human fossils are closer to 200,000 years old.

[yellerpup]

35. Doh!

Pardon me while I laugh at myself. Just musing there in that last sentence, but I see you have cited the Smithsonian article upthread that suggests coastal migration and native settlements dating back before the land bridge emerged. All very interesting.

[Apophis]

54. Modern humans, yes.

Pre-modern humans go back a few million years.

[Brother Buzz]

58. I studied anthropology when Lucy was the new kid on the block

We understood there were no humans (including Pre-modern humans) around when Pangaea broke apart.

[Apophis]

59. You're right.

Pangea broke apart some 300 million years ago. The earliest pre-Homo sapien skeleton goes back ~7 million years ago.

[Rozlee]

47. What, you mean they're not the lost tribes of Israel like the Mormons claim?

All joking aside, I'm still mystified by how the Church of Mormon can still claim in the face of DNA evidence that Native Americans are the mythical lost tribes. DNA evidence hasn't revealed any specific Southwest Asian bloodlines (i.e. Middle Eastern/Semitic) in any of the tribes of the Americas. I digress from your excellent post. Just an observation from an irreligious person.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. This isn't a panacea.

I have come across some right-wing conservatives who boast about their Cherokee bloodlines as if that justifies everything they have done to stay on top.

[OriginalGeek]

4. I think I can safely say

they aren't honoring the spirit of their ancestors.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. You tell me.

The guy had a huge Indian chief tattooed on one shoulder and confederate flag on the other.

He was a foreman from the deep south and his workers were all from the same local area. He told me that they were also proud confederates, and indeed, they would look at me meanlike as they worked on a construction site nearby. His workers were Black Americans, who were darker than I have ever seen before. And I was raised in Central America in an area which sees a tremendous mix of cultures. This was a first for me.

They blared Rush Limbaugh all day while they worked.

[eppur_se_muova]

81. Reminds me of old "Pogo" strips ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_%28comic_strip%29#The_Jack_Acid_Society

[Baitball Blogger]

84. Yeah, it's very much like that.

Sometimes I don't think we ever left the tribal wars of the highlanders because everyone is looking for anything to assert dominance.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. The protesters are probably thinking:

"Ya, but we're white!"

[Ed Suspicious]

21. "The protesters are probably thinking..." Very dangerous concept for the wingers. nt

[pampango]

63. Protesters: historical immigrants (mostly now dead) - good; current/future immigrants - bad.

Protesters: "Historical immigrants (the ancestors of most of us so how can they be 'bad'?) don't threaten our jobs or culture; current/future immigrants do. Our ancestors immigrated here first, so don't you modern immigrants try to do the same thing they did."

Of course, that is what has been said about immigrants (including the ancestors of the protesters) throughout our history.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

6. Good for him, but you can't talk sense to those people. It's OK when white people do it.

[Whisp]

8. wow is right. the truth is spoke!

[RebelOne]

10. I am on his side. Our ancestors committed awful atrocities on the Native Americans.

I can understand his anger.

[DainBramaged]

18. I saw an episode of Pawn Stars where they happily bought a cannon that was made

specifically to kill American Indians, and it wasn't like this cannon was stuck in a crate for 125 years.




Subtle obscenities like that continue.

[The Straight Story]

12. reminds me of this:

[Cha]

17. That's Compelling!

Thank you, Straight Story

[unionthug777]

26. LOVE IT !!!!!!

especially because i am native american.

[DainBramaged]

28. AND a Union Thug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uponit7771]

37. +1

[jerseyjack]

22. "We should'a put that sign up when you sons of bitches came here."

Love it.

[yellerpup]

25. Idle No More is a huge movement

and inspiring to most Native Americans. I'm proud of the young father for standing up and telling the truth.

[ShadowLiberal]

27. The facts didn't stop an anti-immigrant group calling themselves 'native americans' many years ago

Around 200ish years ago there was a group of anti-immigrant people who called themselves 'The Native Americans' when they didn't like all the Irish immigrants in their area.

This was before anyone started to call the American Indians Native Americans.

[pampango]

41. That was the American Republican Party which changed its name to the Native American Party in 1845.

You're right. By "Native American" they simply meant native born citizens rather than naturalized citizens. (The irony that these children of immigrants would call themselves Native Americans would probably be lost on them today.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Republican_Party

The American Republican Party preceded the current Republican party (created in 1854) by about 10 years, though both versions of the republican party had and have a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment. Go figure.

[jerseyjack]

64. They were also appropriately known as the "No Nothing Party."

A sub-group was called the "Plug Uglies"

[liberalhistorian]

99. Um.....not to be annoying or anything, but

you mean the Know-Nothing party. They were appropriately named, considering they were blatantly and proudly nativist, hating blacks, Indians, immigrants and immigration (particularly the Irish and Asians), Catholics, Jews, abolitionists, anyone with more than a third-grade education, etc., etc. Fortunately they didn't last too long as a formal party, although their like-minded ilk have been active all throughout our history and on up to the present time. The teabaggers would have been quite at home with them.

The plug-uglies were Southern/slavery sympathizers who purposely roughed up those who disagreed (they started in Missouri) for purposes of not just getting their way but starting and fomenting sectional shit.

[Coyotl]

30. Can't REC this enough! Not to Mention, the "Mexican" is an Anglo substitute for Native American.

So, the people of Mexico are largely a Native American population combined with some European invaders.

To not recognize Mexican Native Americans and north of the American-made border Native Americans as one people is wrong, is a failure to not recognize a false dichotomy. In the U.S., the whites won, in Mexico the Europeans were overthrown. That's the big legal difference. You wan't find Native Americans in over-100-year-old concentration camps in Mexico.

[yellerpup]

33. Absolutely.

The boundaries between our countries are purely political. We are one people.

[blackspade]

46. Tragically, the First Nations were not one people during the European invasions.

Had they been, they could have easily pushed them back into the sea.
The tragic irony is that the First Nations were just as balkanized as the Europeans leaving each nation to resist as best it could.
I can only imagine how things might have been different as late as the 1800s if the the Prophet and Blackhawk had been successful.

[John2]

68. They did unite to win

one battle against Custer. Custer's arrogance did him in. I read the history of Custer and even though he was a Civil War hero,he was still a racist arrogant supremacist.

[blackspade]

73. Unfortunately only a battle.

First Nations met invading Europeans in battle and won on numerous occasions.
It was there lack of unity early on during the colonization that undermined later efforts to fight back or integrate into the new colonial reality.
We are all the poorer for it.

[loose wheel]

104. That wasn't even the entirity of those three tribes

There was nothing wrong with Custer's strategy at the start of the battle. Had he reinforced his skirmish line as the battle started, the 7th Cav was more than up to the job. It was also standard tactics of the time. That he failed to do so has never been explained, and it resulted in the loss of about half of his unit.

Red Cloud was a superior leader. He's also the only leader to force the US to the negotiating table due to successes in the field against our armed forces.

[yellerpup]

70. Too true.

I hope this is the time when we can all come together and recognize our strength in unity.

[SHRED]

40. thank God for natives!

[sagetea]

42. Indeed!

There is a lot of anger, and they are speaking out!

Ho
sage

[2naSalit]

43. And that's the truth!

[SHRED]

44. I have a new hero!

[DeSwiss]

50. K&R

[ReRe]

56. To the Greatest!

K&R

That thrilled my soul! That there was a real live Indian Brave! And change the name of Columbus Day to Native American Day! Thanks, DC. I'm on the tail end here, but I sure am glad I found it. Really made my day...

[Number23]

57. Now THAT's how you break up a crowd

There were about 10-12 folks standing around when he first started. By the time he was finished, all them assholes was GONE.

[lib87]

60. The Truth Hurts

They had no argument and ran off like cowards when the truth was spoken. Bravo sir!

[Le Taz Hot]

61. Ha!

Some things are just not up for debate.

[Amonester]

62. Well said!

Wish they had drones then!

[Ganja Ninja]

65. Unfortunately irony just bounces off right wingers like bullets off Superman.

They hardly notice if they notice at all.

[heaven05]

69. truth

will set you free. stopped all that racism in it's tracks. I LOVE THE TRUTH!!!!!!

[heaven05]

74. YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAVE MISSED THE POINT, WHICH DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. TELL THAT BROTHERHOOD SHIT TO THE SLAUGHTERED 'FIRST PEOPLES OF THIS LAND. TELL THAT BROTHERHOOD SHIT TO SLAVES SLAUGHTERED AND TO USE YOUR TERM, ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!

[toby jo]

75. I addressed the point. People have been slaughtered everywhere, is my point, which you missed.

My people were slaughtered, life goes on. You don't drag around expecting people to feel sorry for you, you fight on.

"Me first" produces war. Get yours on, if that's what you want.

[Dont call me Shirley]

93. The Course In Miracles calls it Specialness (the worst mentall error of all)

Me first, I deserve and you don't, or more that you, I am better than you, etc etc all those wrong thoughts fit into this category.

We must all work to overcome these mental errors. Then the horrors will stop.

[Mr Dixon]

82. WOW

Great points keep going

[Dash87]

92. Yeah, it's their fault for being conquered and doomed to a life of poverty and abuse.

Your argument makes no sense. They shouldn't call themselves Native Americans unless if they live like they did 300 years ago? You do realize, had Native American tribes not been conquered by the West, they would still have advanced technologically, right?

By that argument, if another country got superior technologies to us in the near future, it would be better if they nuked us into oblivion and then conquered the US. We should just shut up and take it, and anyone who used the new technologies wouldn't be a real American and had nothing to whine about. Do you really believe Native Americans should be happy that they were a victim of genocide?

[Cleita]

76. The irony too is that many from the Southwest who are perceived as illegal and those from

South of the border are mostly native American as well. I worked in a restaurant where some the workers, and some were undocumented, who were from the same pueblo in Mexico spoke their native language among themselves often and it wasn't Spanish.

[Mnpaul]

79. This is the way you do it

Kudos to Robert Erickson for punking the tea party in Mn.

[lutefisk]

83. Well that took some courage

Those Tea Party people are stunningly stupid and angry. And why do they all seem to look alike?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

90. I believe that First Nation Peoples have the right to freely

cross the boarders of Mexico and Canada.

[Dont call me Shirley]

91. I am truly sorry that my ancestors corraled and murdered your people.

[RebelOne]

100. Jennifer Granholm showed a short clip tonight

on her show the War Room.

[loose wheel]

105. It's a lot more complex than that.

What particular ground were these "Native Americans" standing on, and did it belong to their tribe at any time?

I descended from the Walker clan of the Creek indian nation. When European (Spanish) explorers first made contact with our tribe, historical records show that we were engaged in wars with literally every tribe around us, and we seemed to be winning. That being said, it seems that the Delaware Indian tribe had at some point in the past pushed our tribe out of the region around the nation's capital. The other indian tribes were more than happy to meet and ally someone who had superior force of arms.

There are places in Georgia where lines of trees delineated the borders of the Cherokee nation and the Creek nation. My uncles used to tell me about finding arrowheads around them. There are regions in other places where tribes and clans regularly fought over prime hunting land to the point that "ownership" changed hands regularly.

The Aztecs had managed to piss off every tribe around them. When the Spanish showed up the other tribes were more than willing to trade conquerors that had to cross an ocean with conquerors that were next door.

I guess my point is this. There was no Native American nation. There were a collection of small nations, tribes, and clans each with it's own history, it's own likes, it's own enemies, and it's own hatreds. They traded, they fought, they enslaved, and did everything to each other that the tribes that had gunpowder did later.

The thing is the tribe that has gunpowder, domesticated livestock, and metallurgy is just about impossible to stop.

[malaise]

108. Well

It's true