Would you vote for this candidate?

[MadHound]

One who handed an entire industry a mandated monopoly of the entire US population. One who extended tax cuts for the rich. One codified the indefinite detention of American citizens into law. One who has ordered the summary execution of American citizens abroad. One whose idea of a stimulus bill was one made up of forty percent tax cuts and tax credits. One who has kept the military industrial complex well fed and cared for. One whose term saw the lowest tax rates since the 1950's.

These are but a few of the reasons why liberals and progressives are upset with Obama, for this is the candidate that they are being presented with. Yes, the alternative is worse, perhaps much worse. But it becomes awfully damn hard to really give a damn when the political choices presented to you are center right authoritarian and hard right authoritarian.

[elleng]

1. ...

[MadHound]

5. What, are you at a Roman gladitorial event?

Or do you simply have no erudite answers and have resorted to smilies instead?

[graywarrior]

16. ROFLMAO!

[emulatorloo]

2. No, I would not vote for your fantasy straw man Obama.

You leave out a lot of facts and context in your laundry list.

[Justice wanted]

3. I respect what you are saying. I am deeply upset by all you mention BUT he has done a lot of

good so in my mind the scales are balanced for the most part. I'm just hoping he changes and becomes the Progressive Candidate I voted for. I don't want to have to go to the voting both looking at him as the lesser of 2 evils.

[southernyankeebelle]

4. Your right. But it is the choice of the less evil.

[MadHound]

6. And that is the entire problem encapsulated,

We've been presented with the choices between greater and lesser evils for decades now, yet never in all that time have we ever been presented with a good(in all senses of that term) choice.

Instead we are simply presented with the choice of dying slowly or dying quickly as a country. Frankly I think that dying quickly might not be such a bad thing. Get it done, get it over with quickly so we can start on rebuilding.

[southernyankeebelle]

8. Well if we are goners than I rather go with the democrats. Republicans will form

a theocratic government. I just don't think I want my granddaughter and nieces growing up under the religious rights rules and women need to be at home. No offense guys but women fought to hard to get their freedoms to be put back into a kitchen.

[emulatorloo]

9. So you are now advocating a big Republican Blow-Out so we can "start fresh" after

they destroy America and Americans?

I just want to be clear about what you are saying.

[MadHound]

10. So do you regularly take what people say so far out of context,

And conflate it with what you wish they would say?

Try reading what I say without your pre-determined prejudices and filters.

[Bobbie Jo]

29. Are you kidding?

The irony meter just blew a freakin gasket.

Wow.

[MadHound]

30. Perhaps you ought to get that checked then

I'd hate for you to be needlessly blowing gaskets.

[Ohio Joe]

40. Then WTF are you advocating?

"Frankly I think that dying quickly might not be such a bad thing. Get it done, get it over with quickly so we can start on rebuilding."

In the context of what you wrote, if this is not advocating for going with repugs then WTF is it?

[emulatorloo]

42. That is what you wrote. And your comment about prejudices/filters is classic projection.

[Demonaut]

39. we will ALWAYS have a lesser of two evils..if your a Green or a Dem or a Repug or your fantasy party

that does not exist yet

[Sheepshank]

45. So given the options presented.....

what the fuck are you proposing for November 2012?

You want to change the future...how about working at it from a different angle, a little sooner in the political game, rather than pissing at what they voters ae given today (as POTUS options).

Leaving out extremely important info and presenting half truths is not what I would expect to see on DU or from a Dem writing about the only Dem option on the ballot.

[bigwillq]

7. Evil is still evil (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

11. Yes, I would, and I will. It's a two party system. (nt)

[MadHound]

13. All the more's the pity,

The two party system is a large reason why we're in the place we are to begin with. More of the same certainly won't help.

[Nye Bevan]

14. A multi-party system is not necessarily any better.

Italy is not exactly a shining example of good and stable government.

There are certainly things about Obama that totally suck. And you haven't even got into marriage equality. But of course he will be better than the Republican candidate.

[ProSense]

12. Do you

One who handed an entire industry a mandated monopoly of the entire US population. One who extended tax cuts for the rich. One codified the indefinite detention of American citizens into law. One who has ordered the summary execution of American citizens abroad. One whose idea of a stimulus bill was one made up of forty percent tax cuts and tax credits. One who has kept the military industrial complex well fed and cared for. One whose term saw the lowest tax rates since the 1950's.

Mean the bill that saves lives:

<...>

We still have over 30 million Americans who cannot see a doctor when they are sick. According to this Harvard study, adjusting for gender, race, smoking, weight, and just about everything else that you can think of, in any given year, the uninsured are 40% more likely to die than the insured are. That results in 44,789 additional deaths in America each year. All of which are avoidable.

This is more than twice the number of homicides in America.

It is more than ten times the number of deaths on 9/11. And it happens every year.

Do you think that we should solve this problem? I do.

And the Democratic Party does...I see one party taking on the special interests and enacting laws to keep Americans alive, and assure that you can see a doctor when you are sick. Like in every other industrialized country in the world.

<...>

You can call me partisan, if you want. But I see one party’s leadership trying hard to solve this nation’s problems. And the other party’s leadership showing its true colors. They are callous sellouts. Always have been, always will be.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/20/937697/-What-I-Didnt-Hear

Or the largest middle class tax cuts in history?

On the politics side of the ledger, Ben Smith notes Obama's emphasis on the tax cuts in the bill. I'm not necessarily a fan, though politically it's true that every single Republican member of congress can now be accused of "Voting against the biggest tax cut in history" come next election." Clearly, this hasn't escaped the White House's notice.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/good-news-stimulus

Another vital component of the Recovery Act that is often overlooked is its expanded funding for unemployment insurance that helped keep 3.3 million people, including 1 million children, out of poverty in 2009. Another overlooked but critical program in the Recovery Act is the funding for Head Start. The $2 billion allocation preserved Head Start and Early Head Start programming for 64,000 children across the country-over 900 in Minnesota alone. These programs are helping the most vulnerable kids in our communities.

http://franken.senate.gov/?p=news&id=1110

Or the first President to cut a military system...

...He canceled a weapons program that was bloated, unnecessary and totally irrelevant to either of our current wars, the F-22. Why even mention the cancellation of a single weapons system? Because that never happens. Weapons systems never get canceled. The F-22 did, which is itself a miracle.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37974309/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/

...who ended a war, managed to get Republicans to sign a deal that included 50% defense cuts, and then announced more cuts?

Peace dividend: 100,000 ground forces to be cut
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/26/1058804/-Peace-dividend:-100,000-ground-forces-to-be-cut?via=blog_1

Sure, I'd run to the polls to vote for that candidate.

[MadHound]

18. And none of what you say refutes the facts I stated or the point I make

But hey, continue if you wish.

[Sheepshank]

46. and you also forgot to include in the OP that Obama puts Carbon Dioxide into the air we breathe...

...damn, you forgot to call him a killer too.

Contrived, manipulated, narrow, OP relying on the grand omissions to slam, are not noble in any sense.

[eridani]

15. I agree with everything in your first paragraph--

--but I sure the hell DO give a damn.

[Amonester]

17. Progress is sometimes a slower process than we would want.

While total chaos and panic may bring only regression.

As for choices, write in someone you like if pinching thy nose hurts.

[MadHound]

19. Except we aren't progressing,

Haven't been for a long while.

[11 Bravo]

20. Get it all out of your system, because come the GE ...

this shit will no longer be wasting DU bandwidth.

[MadHound]

22. What, you think we've been progressing?

Look at whatever stats you want to, real world wages, quality of life, health care, what have you, and you will see that we have been in retrograde for decades. That isn't "shit" that is reality and the sooner we all start dealing with it, the sooner we can change it.

[Amonester]

24. I said you have choices when you said we haven't.

I said progress is a slower process than we would want and that slow progress is better than risking regression, and you replied we aren't progressing.

I was right twice.

[MadHound]

25. No, you're not, because by any rubric you use to measure our society, we're not progressing

Real world wages have declined for decades, as have quality of education, quality of our healthcare system, quality of our life in general. It has all been in serious decline for decades, due in large part to a two party/same corporate master system of government that puts the welfare of corporations ahead of the welfare of actual living people.

[Demonaut]

35. dadt...veterans issues...a pathway to affordable and possible single payer health system

and more that I've left out, sure I would support a viable alternative if one existed BUT IT DOES NOT!
so stay home or vote "Cain", or Nader or Scooby Doo, whatever....

[Ineeda]

21. So who, in your infinite wisdom,

do you suggest as an alternative?
I'll be voting for President Obama with as much hope and enthusiasm as I had the first time around.

[MadHound]

23. A serious political revolution is the best alternative we can have,

Because the two party/same corporate master system of government we've been operating under for the past few decades is only making things worse, not better.

[Amonester]

26. Where is that 'serious political revolution' alternative?

Do you see that serious political alternative? (9 months to build that serious one, before the chaos sets in...).

[MadHound]

28. That's the trouble, you, like Dems and 'Pugs, only do short term thinking,

The next election cycle, that's it, that's as far as you go. That's a big part of why we're where we're at as well.

Let's try this for a serious political revolution then, but I warn you, it's long term thinking, a long haul, are you up for it? Here it is, publicly funded elections for every office from dogcatcher to president. A Constitutional Amendment to the effect that candidates get X amount of money, X amount of free air time and X amount of time to mount a campaign.

Pursuing this amendment would mean a long slog, and that we would have to turn into single issue voters in order to see it accomplished. But if it is pushed through, it would cure a lot of problems that we currently face. Are you up for it? Or do you simply want to continue in short term thinking, one election cycle to another while the rest of the country goes to hell.

[Amonester]

32. I'm all FOR that.

I support the OWS movement hoping it will continue for the long term, or better: for the shortest (successful) term possible.

But (yes, there is a but), I reserve the right to opt out of it if it only brings a paul presidency, or worse (if it could be any worse) a ramNAY or ginRICH one... (or any other teaRoarist one).

[MadHound]

33. Then such short term thinking will gain us nothing

We, as a country, have to be willing to undergo pain and hardship in the short term in order to bring forth long term gain and prosperity. This has been true throughout our country. An amendment for publicly financed elections wouldn't be fatal, like our Revolutionary and Civil Wars were, but yes, it would bring about some short term pain. But it would be worth it, don't you think?

[Amonester]

37. 47-48% of almost a hundred million GE voters disagree with it (they R brainwashed).

Most of them are in the 99% who see the gap between them and the top 1% grow larger, year after year.

But they still disagree (and stupidly HATE us because, well, the lackeys of the 1% tell them they must FEAR us, and they stupidly believe them).

How to 'deal' with that? (A lot of 'em are violent thugs.)

[Life Long Dem]

31. Maybe you were just speaking with the whole "serious political revolution alternative" team.

[Sheepshank]

48. oh gawd...another revolution?

seriously?

Have a diagram and a plan of action on this grand and serious revolution of the future?

[quaker bill]

27. I am quite sure I will

without hesitation

[Demonaut]

34. Fuck Yeah!!!

list the shit......leave out the good

keep up the negative!!!

[MineralMan]

36. FUD.

Pure, unadulterated FUD. Sorry, but there it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002225841

[Sheepshank]

49. +1 n/t

[tallahasseedem]

50. +1

You can almost smell it too...

[great white snark]

53. +1

[FarLeftFist]

38. ITS ONLY BEEN 3 YEARS!

[Motown_Johnny]

41. so many inaccuracies

the health care industry does not have a monopoly, things like medicaid, medicare and veterans hospitals exist

the tax cuts that were extended were for everyone, not just the rich

the stimulus bill was a compromise, it was not what his idea of what a stimulus bill should be

he also inherited two shooting wars


Polls consistently show that liberals and progressive approve of President Obama by roughly an 85-15 margin. The idea that "many are upset" is not based in fact. Only a few on the fringe don't approve and only a very few on the very edge of the fringe are upset.

[Romulox]

43. For me, the mandatory private insurance was soul-crushing.

This means that people will continue to be denied medical care, based solely on inability to pay.

And likely for the rest of my life. It's tragic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. No. Which is why I vote issues not party or candidate.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[Ikonoklast]

47. In a heartbeat.

The Greens and Socialists can't even stop the infighting long enough to get their own various houses in order and get people to vote for their agenda, so they try to tear down Democrats.

That is their agenda; they don't attack Republicans, they think that by using magical thinking and continuously attacking actual Democrats somehow everyone will suddenly all go out and vote for Socialist one day.

They don't want to do the hard work in convincing people to come to their cause, they want everything to fail, as they see themselves as the beneficiary of that collapse.

You do your cause no service by being disingenuous.

Rush, Hannity, Beck, et al., use the same tactics to support their cause, just like you did.

You are in good company.


Oh, and self-identified liberals and progressives support this president by a VAST majority.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. yes, I will.. because

NO candidate will ever be the ideal one. And like it or not- a fair amount of people who also live in this country don't see things the way we do- and they also have a say in how we live.

You have a voice- you can use it to ensure that things don't get worse (and no matter how you try and fool yourself into thinking otherwise, any of the republican candidates would be a disaster for this country) or you can proclaim to be 'standing on principal' and choose to allow something completely against everything you stand for to have power.

There is not one single issue that Newt or Mitt proposes that I agree on.

I voted for and worked to elect Pres. Obama in 2008- not because I believed he was a 'messiah' or because I was thrilled with all his stands- (he was clear on his view of Afghanistan, Pakistan military involvement, he did not see universal health care as immediately viable, and not as committed to ensuring marriage equality as I wanted)
but there has never been a candidate in my lifetime who has been ideal. He is among those who have come closest for me.

We live in the real world. We share this country with people who don't agree with many of our ideals.

There is no taking our dolls and tea-set and going home. This is home. Dysfunctional as it may be.

[Zorra]

52. I have no reasonable alternative at this time, so I hope for the best,

and do what I can over the winter to try to have a wonderful and productive American Spring.

??☮ccupy

http://occupii.org/

[great white snark]

54. Over 60,000,000 people will vote for President Obama.

Your conclusions about our President are not shared by those outside the fringe.


(edit sp)

[Robb]

55. More saliently, would you?

[Bluenorthwest]

56. I was raised in a Democatic household, so I was issued a clothes pin for nose holding

as needed, I use it each election day. I'm USED to not really digging the candidate, as the candidates thus far in my life are all anti equality hetro-centric dogma spouting religionists. So for President, I'm always, always casting mine against the GOP, as there is not a choice that actually casts their lot with me.
So that's how it is. The lesser of two dogma merchants. In 4 year cycles. God is in the Mix!

[T S Justly]

57. Not knowingly ...

Or, again.