General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome thoughts on appropriate liberal attitudes to Obama
DU is getting increasingly acrimoniously divided over support vs criticism of President Obama. Here are some of my thoughts, not building to any particular conclusion.
One-line summary: I don't like his style. I think he's done a reasonably good job. Lesser evil lesser evil lesser evil LOOK AT THAT ENORMOUS EVIL DEBATING ITSELF EVILLY OVER THERE lesser evil.
:-First and formost, the "Lesser evil" argument absolutely trumps everything. Even if I accepted everything that Obama's most vociferous liberal critics have to say about him, I could make an unanswerable case not merely for voting for him, but for working quite hard to encourage others to do so, in just four words, and those words would be "Romney Gingrich Santorum Paul".
:-I, personally, don't like president Obama, because of the style of his 2008 campaign. I want politics to be conducted by people standing up and saying "here are a list of the policies I support, here are the arguments justifying those policies, here is a list of sources for the evidence for those positions" (take a look at my sig line). Obama's 2008 campaign was the antithesis of that, conducted very heavily in generalities rather than specifics. "Hope" and "Change" were two of the most empty and vacuous slogans ever, and I found it mildly horrifying that so many people appeared to think that they meant something. I genuinely can't tell whether his presentation of himself is an attempt to manipulate the electorate (in which case he's dishonest), or if he really saw himself in that light (in which case he has a messiah complex), but neither is good.
:-But like isn't an important thing - he's not campaigning to be my best buddy - and in many ways I do approve of him.
:-Too messianic. Much too messianic. He's not the messiah, he's not even an exceptionally good US president - there have been at least two not significantly worse in the last 40 years. He didn't deliver "change" or "a new era".
:-Conversely, there has not been a president of the USA significantly better than Obama for at least 40 years (I don't want to get into Carter vs Clinton vs Obama precedency arguments, hence the choice of "significantly better than" rather than "as good as" . So I think it's unrealistic to expect or demand something very much better in future. He's been a reasonably good but not exceptional Democratic president (which is to say, immeasurably better than any Republican president for at least 51 years), and we should settle for that.
:-Several of the specific promises he made in his election campaign - notably the one to close Guantanamo bay - have not been kept. Therefore, we should never again believe anything he promises. Lots of DUers present "the Congress wouldn't let him" as a defense; I don't accept that for a minute. Or rather, I don't accept that for a minute as a response to the criticism I actually raise - it's a perfectly valid response to people angry that he didn't close Gitmo, but I'm angry that he promised to do so, knowing that he might not be able to.
As to his actual performance:
:-I think his economic record is generally underrated. He inherited what could easily have been a great-depression style catastrophe, and in the face of Republican obstructionism he's kept things merely bad rather than appalling. Things could have been done a hell of a lot better, but probably not with a Republican congress.
:-Promised to end DADT. Ended DADT. Full marks.
:-Has not merely failed to deliver gay marriage/civil unions, but has not made significant attempts to do so, or to drum up support for doing so, or even to indicate that he wants to do so but his hands are tied. Deeply unimpressive.
:-Fails heavily on civil liberties. Gitmo still open. Supported indefinite detention. Claims that the Congress is to blame; I think many DUers are probably far too willing to accept this excuse, but I don't know enough to be confident.
:-Fails lightly on healthcare reform. What he introduced was unquestionably an improvement on what came before, but it used up momentum that could probably have been channeled to produce something far better. DUers who quote "several million people moved into coverage" need to remember that several million is a tiny fraction of the US' population. But still, even a small improvement is better than nothing.
:-Got troops out of Iraq; kept troops in Afghanistan, resisted pressure to attack Iran but kept up sanctions and heavy pressure. I think those were all probably the right calls.
:-Probably handled the Arab Spring right - that is to say, resisted pressure to do something, when all the things he could have done would probably have made things worse. Lots of kudos for this - saying "no, we're not going to do anything about this problem" is really hard for politicians.
:-No progress on the Middle East, but at least he's not as friendly with Netanyahu as one might fear.
:-Appointed decent judges.
:-Did not declare war on China. Shouldn't be worth mentioning, but looking at the Republican field...
:-He's a very, very good public speaker. We have a good chance of winning in 2012 with him, even with the economy still thoroughly Republicanned.
As to DU discussion of him:
:- My sympathies in the rows that break out seem to be more often with "critics" than "supporters", but not by much - there's civility and incivility on both sides.
:- Nearly all the "meta-posts" - posts that talk about supporters or critics of Obama on DU, rather that supporting or criticising him - that I've seen have been rude, unproductive flamebait. I strongly recommend avoiding them.
:-"Critics" need to keep their eyes firmly fixed on a) the Republican primaries and b) the last two Democratic presidents, and the losing Democratic candidates, though - a lot of people seem to have implausibly high expectations. We're not going to get an unambiguously left/liberal president; we should acknowledge that the mostly left/liberal (by American standards - by the standards of Europe he's a conservative) one the US has has isn't too bad.
:-It's entirely possible to simultaneously be critical of aspects of Obama's performance and support him overall - I hope I've managed that in this post.
And finally
:-Anyone who says they're not convinced by the lesser evil argument needs their head examined. Look at the sodding Republican primaries, for gods' sake! Look at Rick Santorum saying that a rapist's child is a gift from God. Look at Mitt Romney saying that the solution is (even) smaller government, except for defence! The greater evil is so great that, frankly, not supporting the lesser one vigorously - even if you have to hold your nose while doing it - is criminally irresponsible.
:-I still don't like him, though. He's either dishonest or has a messiah complex or both, and he speaks too well for me to be able to tell which. And his approach to electioneering is the antithesis of what the mathematician in me wants.
Disclaimer: I'm British, not American. I only have horse in this race to the extent that American governance affects the UK, and when I say "we" I'm actually often excluding myself.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)I think people who are going to criticism Obama should be truthful, I rec'd a post this morning from a basher and wish I could take my rec back.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)Revisit the thread and click again.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Can you not think of anything he's done/not done that you don't approve of?
I agree that people who are going to criticise Obama should be truthful, as should everyone else. If that's intended to imply that posts doing so on DU are on average significantly less truthful than others, though, I disagree.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)It would help if you would quote actual critical arguments, instead of creating this long strawman. You represent the critics point of view very badly.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)So I can't be doing it badly.
Are you confusing *my* criticisms of him with a summary of what I think other people think? If so, please reread - I'm not attributing any of my criticisms of Obama to anyone but myself.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)And your entire analysis IGNORES the points of view of others while lecturing them on what they should think and what a valid argument is. Just because you don't generate a good one doesn't mean there isn't one.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)And while there have indisputably been some achievements of the Obama administration that would never have occurred in a Republican administration, I'm still unwilling to trim my ideals to fit the election year fashion. I don't want my President to be a messiah, but I do expect the President to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. In addition to the civil liberties failures cited in the OP, there's also the extra-judicial murder of persons on little more than "he was very, very bad." If we could try people after World War II, we can try alleged terrorists. The utter failure by the United States to capture and try international criminals and terrorists, preferring summary execution indicates to me that our government does not trust its own law.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I agree that civil liberties is his worse suit,though.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)But some of his actions have been.
As long as we willingly accept the "lesser of two evils", that is exactly what we will get. In fact, they count on us accepting it.
That doesn't work for me anymore.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)And there is not, currently, any alternative to one of those two.
FarLeftFist
(6,161 posts)Which is a travesty to even say considering even the vast differences between the President and his republiCon challengers. Head examined is right.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Although I do agree that it's silly.
emulatorloo
(44,257 posts)than they do about Obama.
All in all some very good stuff here. Note those digging their heels in over the concept of lesser of two evils. I think some people just can't visualize the dire consequences of Republican rule. Which is odd, because we have seen so many examples of that in the states post 2010.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)The GOPers overplayed their hand and out of it was born OWS, labor solidarity, a politically awakened generation -- not a bad success.
emulatorloo
(44,257 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)Because I think he poses an infinitely more complicated set of problems than Obama.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)The only issue is "how do we get him out", not "should we support him".
LeftishBrit
(41,212 posts)but I don't know that he poses an infinitely complicated set of problems. He poses two main problems: (1) he's a Tory; (2) he's a twit - but I repeat myself. The main question about him is how to get rid of him, and how quickly we can do so!
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)":-Anyone who says they're not convinced by the lesser evil argument needs their head examined. Look at the sodding Republican primaries, for gods' sake! Look at Rick Santorum saying that a rapist's child is a gift from God. Look at Mitt Romney saying that the solution is (even) smaller government, except for defence! The greater evil is so great that, frankly, not supporting the lesser one vigorously - even if you have to hold your nose while doing it - is criminally irresponsible."