" U.S. ranked near and at the bottom in almost every heath indicator. That stunned us."

[Follow The Money]

Panelists were surprised at just how consistently Americans ended up at the bottom of the rankings. The United States had the second-highest death rate from the most common form of heart disease, the kind that causes heart attacks, and the second-highest death rate from lung disease, a legacy of high smoking rates in past decades. American adults also have the highest diabetes rates.

Youths fared no better. The United States has the highest infant mortality rate among these countries, and its young people have the highest rates of sexually transmitted diseases, teen pregnancy and deaths from car crashes. Americans lose more years of life before age 50 to alcohol and drug abuse than people in any of the other countries.

Americans also had the lowest probability over all of surviving to the age of 50. The report’s second chapter details health indicators for youths where the United States ranks near or at the bottom. There are so many that the list takes up four pages. Chronic diseases, including heart disease, also played a role for people under 50.

“We expected to see some bad news and some good news,” Dr. Woolf said. “But the U.S. ranked near and at the bottom in almost every heath indicator. That stunned us.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/health/americans-under-50-fare-poorly-on-health-measures-new-report-says.html?_r=0

[BlueJazz]

1. It's truly sad when the good news is you're not last.

[samsingh]

2. a reminder of reality

[MannyGoldstein]

3. But we're number one, by far, on the most important indicator

Cost.

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

[hootinholler]

70. Not just Cost Manny

Don't forget middle man profits! Get real! That's much more important than cost or even delivery of actual care.

[deafskeptic]

116. Yeah, that's more important than humans. :P Cost thrumps everything esle. nt

[RKP5637]

4. I'm not surprised at all ... much of America is a storybook myth. n/t

[lunasun]

23. But we are exceptional!!!

[RKP5637]

28. Go USA!!! Go USA!!! Go USA!!! Land of Exceptionalism!!!

[Fumesucker]

5. Evidently Dr Woolf does not get out much

That's some pretty serious naiveté he's got going on there.

[cbrer]

6. Highest in cost though. YAY corporate America!

[Indydem]

82. Why wouldn't it cost the most?

Did you read the list? When people act like idiots and make themselves sick, of course it's going to cost a fortune to try to treat them.

[Tsiyu]

7. I'm stunned that the panelists are stunned

When you can work forty hours a week and still live in poverty, have no benefits, no sick time, no health care, what do they think happens?

We'll all get HEALTHIER from the overwork, the money stress and the common diseases we can't afford to have treated?

Too many people in this country live in a GD bubble for sure.

[HereSince1628]

9. Experts often know much less outside their area of knowledge

that's how I interpret that. Unless you are the rare polymath, being a national level expert takes a lot of time and usually a very narrow focus.

Those of us with lives and time for reading about many things...usually never make national expert.

[Tsiyu]

14. You have to live in a bubble to not know how bad it's gotten

in this country.

Over and over and over we hear about the growing disparity in income, the millions uninsured, the millions losing their homes, the high number of unemployed and/or homeless. None of this is any secret to any intelligent, aware American.

What do they think OWS was about, but the unjust way we bail out banks but not American workers, and the unjust way we rate pay, and the unjust way we fail to provide things like health care to all?

Of COURSE these conditions will impact our nation's health.

If anyone can't see the reality here, they seriously need to wake up. Expert or not.

[HereSince1628]

16. Yep, inside the bubble is where you get to be focused and expert

I totally agree with you that it's difficult to imagine.

[Tsiyu]

19. Let's hope the national experts agree

it's time to pop their heads OUT of the bubble

[Mimosa]

58. ^ Super post, Tsiyu! ^

The majority's decline in personal wealth has effected EVERY ASPECT of life in America.

[bvar22]

114. The people who govern our country KNOW.

They KNOW all about "the growing disparity in income, the millions uninsured, the millions losing their homes, the high number of unemployed and/or homeless."

The problem is that NONE of the above affects them negatively.
They are ALL safe members of The Elite Class,
and directly benefit from the conditions you describe.


In a shameful display of ultra Bi-partisanship seldom seen in Washington,
the members of our Elite Class,
Republican & Democrat,
Congressmen, Senators, and President,
joined together and delivered a $TRILLION DOLLARS CASH to Wall Street Bankers,
no questions asked, no strings attached
less than a week after receiving a 3 Page Extortion Note
that threatened the value of their Stock Portfolios.

Homelessness, Unemployment, Hunger, no access to HealthCare,
rising cost of the necessities, lower wages,
less pay for more work (increasing productivity)
does NOT affect these people.
ALL these problem just go away when they close their front doors.

[DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav]

20. Beautifully said.

[Tsiyu]

21. Thankie DogPawsBuiscuitsNGrav

and Welcome to the DU

[caseymoz]

33. They could have just called me.

I'm not an expert, I just looked at the statistics from the WHO. In every category I found the US was either at the bottom or near the bottom, and we supported a healthcare system that was twice expensive as any other nation.

[Tsiyu]

43. Silly national experts

You were ahead of the curve, caseymoz. Maybe we all were.

Now the question is what can we do about it. If you solve that, you'll be all of our new best friend!

Have a great week.

Off to dreamland here

[Flatulo]

115. Hmmm. Our rate of obesity is also twice that of other developed countries.

What a coincidence.

[Spider Jerusalem]

131. No, it isn't.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Higher than the UK and most of Western Europe, but not double. The lack of routine healthcare due to profit-based medicine that leaves too many people not seeing a doctor until they go to the emergency room with what turns out to be cancer, or a heart attack, probably has more to do with the unhealthiness of Americans than diet and fat alone.

[Flatulo]

132. Our obesity rate is 2x or higher than Canada, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Finland, Iceland, Turkey,

Belgium, The Netherlands, Sweden, France and Austria. The only countries that aren't half or less than us are Mexico, the UK, Slovakia, Greece, Australia and New Zealand. And those states are between half and three-quarters of our rate.

The only conclusion ine can come to is that we lead the world by a wide margin

If you read the report cited in the OP, our poor health cuts across all socio-economic lines. Upper middle class and rich people in the US, those most likely to have access to excellent health care, are also unhealthy.

The report doesn't just speak to obesity. Americans engage in all sorts of unhealthy behaviors including drugs, alcohol, lack of exercise, etc.

Most of the causes of our unhealthiness are things that we have some control over, like walking more and wearing seat belts and consuming alcohol and tobacco in moderation.

[Spider Jerusalem]

136. The biggest difference is in healthcare provision compared to other developed countries.

I'd really look there first. And indeed the number of people without health insurance is cited as a major factor. Along with deaths from firearms, more sedentary lifestyles due to driving everywhere, and so on.

[spooky3]

48. Me too--plus, the WHO reported similar findings years ago

Why wouldn't this panel have seen that?

[eridani]

56. ^^^^This^^^

The comfortable just can't buy a clue, can they?

[closeupready]

74. Well, remember, everyone the EXPERTS know have health care

access. They are set just fine. "Who are these people who claim to not be covered? Isn't anyone I know."

[bemildred]

61. Yes, we have lots of stunned experts these days.

Remember the election Obama lost in a landslide?
But life is safe and happy inside the bubble.

[burnsei sensei]

63. The "stunned" statement really disgusted me.

If you are "stunned" at so much suffering and needless death in this country, you have not been paying attention.

[get the red out]

78. +1

Makes me wonder if the "experts" just watch Fox News and don't even pay attention to people around them.

[Hestia]

66. Exactly Tsiyu - it's this 'culture' that is killing us, who wants to live like this? I sure don't

and "they" have done everything possible to make sure that this is our lives forever and ever. The only escape, for a little while, is drugs and alcohol.

Is 50 the new 100 - if you can live that long, you get a news crew and a birthday card from the president?

Sad sad sad

[closeupready]

71. Yeah, as I posted below, "who could have predicted this?"

These are health professionals?

[loudsue]

92. And the MAJORITY of rightwing poor will NEVER hear or, if they hear, fully understand these facts.

The corporate-owned media in the usa will NEVER allow the full extent of this to penetrate the hard-headed brains of those who keep voting to keep us in this mess.

[LongTomH]

94. Or they'll just say: "This is all their own fault; they need to take personal responsibility.....

.....for their own health!" The cultural factors and lack of access to health care, especially preventive health care, is something they don't want to discuss.

[bongbong]

152. Funny you mention that

There's at least one post (somewhere else) in this thread saying just that!

[Tsiyu]

95. hey loudsue

Good to see you ( and thanks to all who responded to my post )

We keep blaming the underpaid worker whom labor policy creates; we keep blaming the poor who result from CEOs being paid millions ( and the media don't even blink an eye at that ) while the worker works sometimes three jobs and STILL lives in poverty ( the media go on a tear at the mere mention of a living wage. ) More people are filing for disability because of a lack of concern for the health and well-being of the worker - corporations wear humans out, yet provide no health care, and then hire someone else and throw the worn out worker to the curb.


We see the results in our flu epidemic. The rich are not spared from mass disease if we force the worker to labor while sick and feverish or infected. The rich are still affected if many people cannot afford to be vaccinated.

I know a young mountain mother, 22, single parent ( she has tried to make it with the father, he does NOTHING for the child or for her ) who has been working at a factory for a few months. She loves her job, she is a hard worker, and her sister tries to cover babysitting on those "mandatory" overtime days.

Yes, this factory demands that you be available 24/7 - just like in CHina. She must drop everything to get to work, even if the adjacent day care center is closed.

She gets "three strikes" to be sick, late or leave early and then she will be fired. She already has two strikes, owing to the fact that her two-year-old is picking up every sickness from day care.

How in the world is a young mother supposed to NEVER be late, sick or have to leave early? If her child pukes on her on the way out the door, does she have to just carry on, plop the vomit-covered kid in the carseat and then show up to work covered in vomit?

The factory wants her to be NOT A HUMAN, NOT A MOTHER, but some sort of robot who should only be concerned with the factory.

What the hell kind of labor policies have we created that we allow this ?

And what will this lovely, sweet person do when they eventually fire her? She will hear everyone in affluent Sewanee say that "all mountain people are lazy." That's her reward.

The stress of this kind of life is a killing force all on its own.

[Takket]

8. no surprise at all

we spearhead all these major medical advances, train the brightest minds and give them the means for research, then we turn over all their work to business men who ensure no one can afford all these great medical advances we have come up with. add that to rampant paranoia and fear driving us to take up arms against each other and desperation of the poor leading to gang related crime, and it pretty much sucks here.

[JDPriestly]

10. And we wonder why Medicare costs are high?

Well. Duh! If you live the first 65 years of your life without regular check-ups and good medical advice, what do you expect?

[hedda_foil]

11. What I found most amazing is that we rank on the bottom across the socio-economic spectrum...

Rich as well as poor,insured along with uninsured. We're doing something very,VERY wrong. Personally? I think it's our whole dog eat dog ethos, . which goes so far beyond what even us DU seniors have ever thought possible.

hedda

[caraher]

17. You're right according to some epidemiologists

Basically, people in the most unequal societies do worse across the board (provided they're at some minimum level of wealth). It doesn't matter much what the well-being metric you use is, either - life expectancy, infant mortality, low murder rates, it goes on and on - better outcomes go with more financial equality.

[progressoid]

12. But Hannity and O'Really told me that we has the bestest medicine in the world!!1

[snot]

13. "a legacy of high smoking rates in past decades"--like Europeans weren't smoking?

Great article!

[RobinA]

88. That Stuck Out

for me, too. It kind of makes me wonder about the whole article.

[ashling]

15. Why is America NOT the greatest country in the world

[riverbendviewgal]

154. I was hooked to this series when I watched this. Great beginning and great speech.

I can't wait till the 2nd season starts.

Also ....It is sad that America is not the greatest, anymore. My NJ redneck brother insists it is but then he thinks Sean Hannity should be president.

[hatrack]

18. Stunned? Jesus, get out of the office from time to time and talk to people.

"I hate America, Louis. I hate this country. Nothing but a bunch of big ideas and stories and people dying, and then people like you. The white cracker who wrote the National Anthem knew what he was doing. He set the word free to a note so high nobody could reach it. That was deliberate. Nothing on Earth sounds less like freedom to me. You come to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean. I live in America, Louis, that’s hard enough, I don’t have to love it. You do that. Everybody’s got to love something."

[Moonwalk]

22. Hm...Teens have the highest rates of transmitted disease and teen pregnancy...

...See what you get when you teach abstinence only?

[lunasun]

25. yes ! You get ignorance

and its after effects.......

[FourScore]

144. Here's a GREAT movie on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Talk-About-Sex-Various/dp/B004HJ0ZOQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[yardwork]

24. The worst health care money can buy!

[Joe Bacon]

26. This statement from the NAFC breaks my heart!

http://www.nafcclinics.org/blog/2013-1-2/tall-order-2013

Happy New Year! As we welcome 2013 it is the hope of the NAFC staff that your heart and homes will be full of laughter, love and peace.

In 2013, Free and Charitable Clinics remain committed to providing access to quality health care for the Nation's medically underserved. The NAFC staff and our members will continue to shine a spotlight on the amazing impacts of volunteerism that is found around this country, and we will continue to focus on the plight of the uninsured and underserved. We will continue to remind the public, the press and our elected officials that the work of America's safety net, of which our clinics are a critical part, will not diminish because of the Affordable Care Act. Rather, we will continue to stand in the gap and provide health care to those who need it the most. We will remind everyone that the Affordable Care Act is not a universal health care solution but rather a first step to proofing providing access to medical care for more Americans, but unfortunately not all Americans. We will continue to remind our elected officials that health care should be a right and not a privilege and that access to affordable health care is neither a red nor blue issue, but an American issue.

Finally, and most importantly, the NAFC and our members will continue to build a healthy America one patient at a time.

A tall order for 2013? Yes, but one thing we at the NAFC know for certain is that our members have been dedicated to providing quality health care since the 1960's and we are going to continue in this important health care role until every American has the access to care that they deserve.

[Flatulo]

27. It sounds like most of these poor health outcomes are based on unhealthy behaviors.

The best way to stay healthy is to not get sick in the first place. Medical advances in disease treatment are well and good, but once you get diabetes or heart disease, the odds are stacked against you.

Our diet is abysmally unhealthy. Way too much sodium, sugar and additives. Also we consume far too many simple carbohydrates and saturated fats.

Yes, it is expensive to eat well, but there are healthy choices that's are quite cheap, like beans and whole grains.

I can't tell you how many obese people I see in the supermarket with their carts stuffed with kegs of cheeseballs and boxes of sugar-laden cereals.

Lastly, we need to walk more. That's absolutely free.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

31. True, But If People Could Afford Regular Doctor Visits......

......how many of these unhealthy behaviors would be caught and dealt with before they result in adverse health effects? If your preventative healthcare were free, and your doctor told you to change your diet/stop smoking/exercise more/whatever or you'd die, most people would at least do SOMETHING. In my opinion, this ALL goes back to the root cause that most people can't AFFORD to be healthy because of our for-profit healthcare system.

As I've been saying for years, when your life is subjected to a cost-benefit analysis, and it's determined that profits would be higher if you were dead, guess what's going to happen. Most people simply have no idea how vast and far-reaching the beneficial effects of making healthcare free would be. It would touch almost every area of American life.

[Flatulo]

35. It's up to parents to lead by example. Children need to learn healthy habits before they become

obese.

I don't think it's that difficult or expensive. There is no junk food in our house, and there is no soda or alcohol. There is always fresh fruit and vegetables. For snack food we have whole grain crackers with peanut butter or no sugar added oatmeal cookies.

I kicked my kid out of the house regularly when he was younger to get outside and walk around.

As a role model, I don't sit around on the couch swilling beer and stuffing my face with cheese balls.

[RC]

64. When I'm in a grocery store, I look at other peoples carts and cringe.

Baloney/hot dogs, bacon, Frosted Mini-Wheats and/or other sugar High Fructose heavy cereals, sugar/High Fructose laden snacks/candy of all kinds. High Fructose sweetened pop. Diet pop. Canned vegetables, instead of fresh or frozen. And the list goes on and on.

I'm a label reader. I look at the salt content and the use of High Fructose corn syrup.

[Hestia]

67. But that's all they can afford! Frontline did a segment on 3 families who were homeless or

near homeless. All they could afford to eat is frozen pizzas and other horrible foods. The states were Iowa, Calif. and one more I forget. They couldn't grow a garden because they moved from hotel to hotel, just trying to get money to pay for the room where 4 or more people were crammed in. Or crammed into a one room homeless shelter that allowed men and boys to live there.

It was the kids who were really affected - they all had a home and their own rooms and now that their parents weren't working, their lives and mental health were really spiraling. They ought to do a program in 10 years to see how they have come out.

Their simply isn't enough money to eat well in a hotel room. How are they going to make beans and rice and other foods with only a microwave?

[Flatulo]

68. Our health problems are equally distributed across all income levels.

Even people who can afford good healthy food choose instead to eat garbage.

Our 34% obesity rate crosses all socioeconomic lines.

The big food conglomerates are creating, marketing and selling some mighty unhealthy stuff, which is then prominently displayed on supermarket shelves. And their sales efforts are successful.

To your point, 34% of us are obese, but nowhere near that many of us are without a decent home.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

96. And a craving for sweets is a sign of malnutrition

That's one reason why poor people can be seen to eat junk food.

[Indydem]

102. What about wealthy people?

Are there no rich people who are fat?

What a ludicrous logic fallacy.

[Flatulo]

113. That's exactly what the report says. Obesity

is distributed across all incomes.

[Indydem]

118. Which refutes the poster I was responding to.

They were tying obesity to poverty. It's a cultural issue.

[Flatulo]

122. Well, this being DU and all, expect blame to be placed elsewhere. Everything bad that happens

is somebody else's fault

That's also part of our sick, sick culture..

It gets tiring sometimes.

[Indydem]

123. Indeed.

This report makes that clear.

There is no silver bullet for what ails us.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

125. No, but really, what is the ratio of fat rich people to fat poor people?

I live near the business district of an affluent suburb, and people there are more slender on average than those who come to the meal programs at my downtown church.

Try a similar experiment in your own town. Observe the shoppers in an upscale shopping area and the shoppers at WalMart.

Which group has more fat people? Which group can afford personal trainers and fresh food and spa vacations and weight loss surgery?

[raccoon]

134. Amen! nt

[Flatulo]

126. Good on ya. It's no guarantee of a long healthy life, but you can stack the odds in your favor.

The ironic thing is that shitty food can often be more expensive than healthy items. Cereal is ridiculously expensive, as are chips, cookies and pastries. If you buy local seasonal veggies and fruits, they're not too pricey. Sure, if you want red peppers from Holland in the middle of the winter, they're going to be $4 per pound. But broccoli is dirt cheap, as are carrots. Beans are practically free and loaded with protein and fiber.

Even if you're uneducated as to what's healthy, our bodies are very forgiving. Regular exercise (before one becomes too unhealthy to do so) will go a long way towards undoing the ill effects of an unhealthy diet.

We're meant to move, to perform physical tasks. Having a sedentary job is a killer, so you have to make the time to get out and move around vigorously.

[Indydem]

83. That's a big leap.

Doctors tell people they need to eat better, exercise more, stop smoking, or watch their sugar all the time.

You make an assumption that they are not receiving any kind of care, but the reality is, many are receiving regular care and ignoring doctors orders.

My dad died of lung cancer from smoking. He had the best insurance money could buy. Health care had nothing to do with it. His own stubbornness did.

My aunt is 200 lbs overwight and a diabetic. She has very good insurance. She has never listened to her doctors. She wants to eat garbage and sit on the couch.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

[Flatulo]

112. If your 6 year old child weighs 150 lbs, do you really

need a doctor to tell you that he or she needs to eat less and exercise more?

[Dash87]

164. No time.

Someone who goes to work at 7 am, and then comes home at 7 pm is not going to have time to cook a healthy meal. For those that do have time, there's such a lack of food education in this country that they wouldn't know how to eat healthy in the first place. Fast food thrives because it works with peoples' overly hectic lifestyles in this country.

Walking is not possible when it's dark outside when you go into work, and dark outside when you get out. This just means sitting in a desk chair for 12 hrs and getting no exercise.

Also, look how people view dieting: with strong negativity. This should be a part of our everyday lives, but instead dieting is something you do to 'punish yourself.' No wonder diets fail, and people just put the weight back on.

Finally, high fructose corn-syrup is making people obese. Not many people look out for it.

Our diets in this country are abysmal, but for some people, cooking healthy foods for breakfast, lunch, and dinner is not possible - they either have no time or don't know how. Eating healthy needs to be culturally learned.

[Flatulo]

165. I know, I know. I was in that position for many years. In my last job, we were expected to

work 12 hours per day. As salaried employees, we of course weren't compensated in any way for the extra half year we'd put in. This place didn't even have a lunch room, they just had a little nook with a fridge, mocrowave and sink. Engineers were encouraged to eat at their desks in order to squeeze an extra half hour out of the staff. It was a white-collar sweatshop.

There was a sandwich shop down the street, and on those days when you didn't bring in a lunch, you'd run out and get a grinder and then wolf it down lest you go one minute over your oh-so-generous 30 minute break.

I used to get up and walk around the building for 20 minutes or so at lunch, and the managers would look at me like I was fucking stealing from them.

It's absolutely true that poor health in institutionalized in our culture. People are working themselves to death, and their employers don't give a fuck because you can be replaced in a few days. Don't like the hours? Fuck you, leave. Don't like the shifty wages and benefits? Fuck you, leave. Don't like your half-hour lunch break? Fuck you, leave. Don't like having to work for free and miss dinner with your family? Fuck you, leave.

[Dash87]

166. Ugh. That sounds horrible.

I eat at my desk and use my lunch break to run at a nearby track. I can't imagine how insane I would be, having to work 12 hours per day (well, even that alone, actually) and not have any break.

What annoys me about our culture is how much emphasis we put on work, usually at the expense of health.

[Egalitarian Thug]

168. Life in Work Camp America.

So many of the sheeple just go along as they're told and are so surprised to see that guy with the stunner when they finally get there...

[kestrel91316]

29. American exceptionalism strikes again.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

30. "Something at the core is causing the U.S. to slip behind these other high-income countries"

Gee, I wonder what it could POSSIBLY be. We are the only rich country with for-profit healthcare, whereas all the other rich countries have universal healthcare. Hmmmmm. What COULD the answer be?

[Warpy]

34. for profit healthcare, consistently falling wages,

no social safety net to speak of, piss poor vacation policies, and the general belief at the top and a lot of the bottom that people will simply take care of themselves without any help at all under these conditions.

That's what's wrong. We're overworked, underpaid, and denied treatment when we get sick. If you want to examine what went rotten at the core of this country, it's the utter disregard and active disdain for the American people.

[Protalker]

81. Single Payer Health Care

I have had no raise in the last two years. Last Thursday an insurance agent ststed a slight increase in cost, a 31% up per pay and 60% increase in our spend down part to be reached before any benefoit from company from $2500 to 4000. I make under $40000. Single payer like the rest of western democracies.

[Indydem]

84. How does single payer help these issues?

Smoking, fornicating, eating garbage, refusing to excercise?

How in the hell does having universal health care help these factors at all?

It doesn't.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

87. It Actually Does, In Certain Circumstances

IF a person has access to free doctor visits, and they actually see the doctor for a checkup every 3 months or so (I go every 3 months and my visits aren't even free), then the doctor will surely advise them that they need to make lifestyle changes and will probably even give them a plan on how to do so, or at least point them in the right direction.

IF the people are smart enough to then take their doctors' advice and run with it (not all will, but I can tell you from personal experience that there is something motivating about hearing a doctor tell you, "Change this or you will die,&quot then preventative care WILL help combat all those factors.

At the VERY LEAST, the health problems that result from the "bad behaviors" will be caught early enough that something can actually be done about them.

Do you change your oil regularly, or do you wait until the engine seizes up and then try to repair it? How successful is that, generally? I'm telling you right now, if you think people won't take advantage of preventative care if it's free, I think you're fooling yourself.

And..........fornication? What are you, an extra in "The Crucible"?

[Flatulo]

124. That will work with some people, but others will not listen to sound medical advice.

My dad drank too much. Constantly, actually. When he was 50, he had a severe attack of pancreatitis. His doctors told him that if he didn't stop drinking, he'd be dead in five years. They offered all kinds of treatment programs, but he dropped out of them all.

He died almost five years to the day after his warning. Pancreatic cancer.

[Tsiyu]

89. fornicating? Really

OMG, I've stepped into Focus on the Family....

Maybe if we just pray, we'll all FEEL better, and Jesus will heal us.

[Indydem]

100. I'm sorry you don't know the definition of words.

"consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other"

It has no religious significance.

[Tsiyu]

105. I'm sorry you don't know the cultural significance of words

"Fornicating" is a term used by fundies, by judgmental people who hate sex, and by people who REALLY hate when OTHER people have sex.

It's an interesting choice, tells us a lot about the person who uses it.



Have a nice day! And remember: Don't FORNICATE today!

[Indydem]

106. So because fundamentalists use a word

That means that no one else can?

I used the word properly, in context, and without religious filtering.

My apologies that using a word correctly irritates you.

[Tsiyu]

108. Not irritated at all

Your choice of words helps me see who you are.

So thank you!

[Indydem]

109. Someone who knows words?

Would you care to substitute a word that helps calm your troubles?

[Tsiyu]

110. You've made yourself clear in your posts hereYou really need use no more words,

but PLease proceed, Indydem.

The posts you've made here indicate that you blame all Americans and their risky behaviors for our low status on the health index.

You clearly have used your words well, and the very wealthy appreciate the fact that you in no way blame American GREED on the fact that we have a high infant mortality rate, that we don't live as long as other First world citizens, that we have a high teen pregnancy rate.

According to your posts here, ALL of these factors are related to lifestyle, and have not a thing to do with "the richest country in the world" failing to provide adequate health care to all citizens, failing to teach birth control ( except to say "just don't do it" ), failing to provide adequate prenatal care, yet allowing CEOS to take home millions in profits off the backs of their underpaid, under- or uninsured labor force.

It's all just the stupid American citizen and his or her "bad choices." Hasn't a thing to do with an exhorbitantly-funded health care system that neglects a huge portion of those who need health care.


We all get it. GREED is sacred. Don't mess with greed. Let those corporations and avaricious Congress people alone!

[Indydem]

120. I guess it must be easy.

Read the report and actually think about it.

Leave your biases at the door and read it.

I suppose it would be easy to read my posts and see only defense of corporations, or whatever you see. You THINK I am in opposition to whatever you believe in, so it's easier to paint me with a broad brush and dismiss me. Fine, whatever.

This goes back to what I have said for yours; single payer is great - I support it. But it isn't going to do a damn thing in this country until we start changing the culture - the foremost of which is to build of the belief of our youth in the power and importance of the individual.

I will apportion the responsibility for our national health issues to many; greed and corporations getting their fair share.

However, people and the culture we have allowed to take root in this country still bear a majority of the blame.

Greed has nothing to do with high infant mortality rates. Pre-natal care is covered free of charge in every state insurance program for the poor nationwide. We have a plethora of programs and NFP organizations that will provide that care - if it is SOUGHT. You can't make a woman take care of her unborn child. You can't get them to stop smoking, using drugs, or ignoring the fact they are pregnant. You can blame greed for a lot of things in our society, but people refusing to care for themselves or their unborn children isn't one of them.

Low life expectancy is a result of a lot of things. Smoking, poor health habits, inner city violence, and cultural issues are all contributors. If you want to say that tobacco companies and food companies, in their greed have tricked people into using their products, then I can go with that. But to act like our culture has nothing to do with that? That is a bridge too far.

High teen pregnancy rate? That is associated with greed? If you want to make the argument that the marketing of sex is a contributor, fine. But men and women alike have a responsibility to be safe. While abstinence only education may be retarded, you act as if people live in a bubble where the only information they receive is in school. There is this thing called the internet. If you value yourself and your life, you will teach yourself how to be safe and take responsibility for your own future.

You can argue that better insurance (or universal health care, as I advocate) will somehow solve these problems. That is a fallacy. We need to be working on the American culture. We need to be teaching people that they have a fundamental responsibility to act responsibly, and protect themselves and their neighbors (and friends). But first we must value ourselves and recognize the value of the individual.

If you made single-payer the law of the land tomorrow. Not a single one of the staggering statistics in this report would change. People have to change.

[Tsiyu]

128. I understand what you're saying

but GREED is at the forefront of this nation's health care crisis.

Abstinence only sex ed DOES increase teen pregnancy rates, and WAS and IS supported by greedy Republicans who throw out this bullshit excuse for "education" as a bone to their financial supporters aka the Teabillies and Fundies who hate sex so much, they'd rather people be ignorant.

Look at nations where they teach about and provide easy access to contraceptives. They have nowhere near our abysmal rates of teen pregnancy. Look at the Greedy Repukes trying to UNFUND Planned Parenthood. When members of our government DEMONIZE family planning and those who provide it -AND THEY DO SO OUT OF GREED - they are actively preventing people from gaining birth control awareness.

Look at AG subsidies that encourage the consumption of cheap crap food. The GREEDY REpublicans don't even want adequate labeling of foods so that people can know what they're eating. And low wages also contribute to eating CHEAP CRAP FOOD. Maybe you've never been poor, but if you live in the inner cities, or in a very rural area,it's a little bit difficult to procure fresh greens and fruits. "Grow your own" doesn't work in a concrete jungle, or when someone is working three jobs or is too infirm to go digging up a food plot. There are food 'deserts' in this nation, where poor people must rely on convenience foods and crap to fill their bellies.

Look at the backlash against Michele Obama's trying to encourage healthy eating. GREEDY REpublicans and TEabillies are behind the criticism of a healthy school eating program. Anything the Obamas do is taken as some war against the "Free Market."

Also, GREED keeps the poor from seeking medical attention until it's too late. Having regular well visits and checkups is one way the average person can learn about healthy lifestyles. Without the input of health care providers, many people actually DON'T know that the commercials for "healthy fast food" are FULL OF SHIT. They don't know the diet they should consume, and GREEDY REPUBLICANS don't WANT them to know. They get lots of donations from McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's et al. The last thing they want to do is have people avoid crap food, so they aren't going to fund any public awareness campaigns that might put a dent in the billions spent on cheeseburgers and fries.

Of course people can do much to increase their chances of avoiding disease. Having access to health care for EVERYONE is one way to insure that more people get good counseling and are held accountable for their choices. EDUCATION is key, and no, many working class Americans don't have the time to research diseases and such.

But GREED is GOD in America, and the GREEDY do not want Americans to have any health care unless they are upper middle class. It's trickle down ignorance, and it's what makes America suck right now.

[wickerwoman]

93. Developing diabetes

and similar "lifestyle diseases" early makes a huge difference in the prognosis and in quality of life. If you can catch diabetes before the need for insulin and before it's combined with heart and kidney problems that require medication which makes it almost impossible to lose weight safely, then it's much easier to manage it with lifestyle changes and reduce the impact (and cost) of the disease significantly.

It's very easy to live in denial of your bad habits, but going into a doctor's office at 27 and hearing that I was well on my way to permanent liver damage was the impetus for me to make drastic lifestyle changes that will add twenty years to my life.

All of the other Westernised countries have junk food, some smoke much more heavily than the US and have more liberal attitudes towards sex (although they more actively promote condoms which is the real issue, not the fornicating itself). Very few other countries have the exercise obsession that the US does. It's quite rare in the UK, for example, to meet someone who "works out".

Part of it is the environment which forces them to walk more and doesn't "supersize" everything but a lot of it is the poverty and the lack of a real safety net. Countries with universal health care tend to also have near universal public housing. It's unheard of in New Zealand, for example, for someone to be homeless other than by choice. It's very rare for someone to live in accomodation where they had nothing to cook with but a microwave.

Compare that to the US where section 8 housing voucher programs are closing their waiting lists in acknowledgement of the fact that most of the people on them will never receive assistance. Far too many people are homeless or living in extremely marginal housing.

[riderinthestorm]

119. More fornicating! (not less!) Its healthy, burns @ 200 calories for a frisky ride

its great for men's genital health, and its excellent for the psyche!

Major win on all sorts of fronts.

You should try it Indydem....





(rider still chuckling over the use of fornicating....)

[Indydem]

121. Don't get me wrong.

People have to be safe.

Fornicate away.

Be safe first. It's the safe part that is being ignored, leading to a medley of problems.

[Tsiyu]

130. YET GREED wants to Unfund Planned Parenthood

"I know!" sez the politician. "We'll completely DEMONIZE birth control providers, and that will lower our teen pregnancy and STD rate!"

[FredStembottom]

99. +1000

If ever a problem was the result of multiple causes reinforcing each other, it is this one.

And Warpy, you hit the nail on the head! Companies now run permanently on skeleton crews. With workers having become interchangeable units that do the jobs several people used to do - right across departments and categories.

Where I work, you are lifting 100 pounds one minute, doing office work the next, researching system failures the next or guarding the gates or doing security patrols. All at a huge multi-national!

I am soooooo exhausted at the end of the week that I just collapse for the weekend.

That ain't healthy.

[WCGreen]

40. When it became all about me instead of being about us....

That is when this country changed from believing we were in it together to now when it's everyone for themselves.

Nobody wants to sacrifice any of themselves for the good of the state.

And the state has somehow morphed into evil incarnated while shyster ministers gather multi-million dollar pay offs because they rail against sin and surround themselves with avarice and greed.

That's why this country crashed and is burning because nobody gives a damn about anything but what's in it for me....

The me generations that sprung from the 60's morphed into leadership that was governed by self promotion, greed and lust for power because we are exceptional, we enlightened ourselves, we were better. Or better yet, we just pretended to be better because everything is an act and nothing is really real.

[Warpy]

32. With the plutocracy talking openly of "culling the herd,"

is anyone genuinely surprised by any of this? With wages falling in purchasing power every single year and the insurance burdens increasing to the point that people can't afford the copays and deductibles if they become ill, is this really a shock to anyone?

Working people in the US have been under constant, heavy attack for the last 40 years. Feigning surprise at the degree to which we have suffered isn't just disingenuous, it's infuriating.

[Flatulo]

38. Ask yourself why we're getting sick in the first place.

Diabetes and heart disease are reaching epidemic proportions in America, but almost nowhere else.

Our diet is the major cause of this. Start there.

If people would only eat healthier and exercise, we wouldn't need all this expensive medical care, which is administered after we've already become diseased.

Can of black beans - $0.78
1 cup of long grain rice - $.50
Whole wheat wraps - $2.40

There's a healthy meal for four people for under 4 bucks.

[Warpy]

41. Untrue.

The average diet in much of northern Europe is at least as bad as the US diet and the alcohol consumption is more consistent but worker friendly policies have them healthier and living longer. There even taller now.

Young, healthy people always think diet is the cause of everything. It comes as a real shock to them when they get sick in spite of it due to DNA problems they didn't know they had, viruses they had no idea existed, general wear and tear of increasing age, and other disease processes they fail to acknowledge.

Extremely poor health habits will hurry disease processes along. However the abstemious lifestyle doesn't eliminate the risk, ever. That's why we all need health care, even the immortal scolds among us.

[Flatulo]

46. The vast majority of us aren't born sick. We get that way from poor diet and a sedentary

lifestyle. I whole-heartedly agree that 60 hour work weeks are extremely harmful, and that we all need access to health care.

We're meant to keep moving. Walking is free and we should all be doing much more of it.

[siligut]

90. From the article it is our diet, smoking and guns

Sixty-nine percent of all American homicide deaths in 2007 involved firearms, compared with an average of 26 percent in other countries, the study said. “The bottom line is that we are not preventing damaging health behaviors,” said Samuel Preston, a demographer and sociologist at the University of Pennsylvania, who was on the panel. “You can blame that on public health officials, or on the health care system. No one understands where responsibility lies.”

Panelists were surprised at just how consistently Americans ended up at the bottom of the rankings. The United States had the second-highest death rate from the most common form of heart disease, the kind that causes heart attacks, and the second-highest death rate from lung disease, a legacy of high smoking rates in past decades. American adults also have the highest diabetes rates.

I agree with your diet and exercise suggestions.

[Warpy]

137. Uh, some of us are born sick

which you'd know if you had education instead of opinion.

Again, a poor diet and lifestyle will hasten illness but a perfect lifestyle (and we don't know what that is, yet) will not eliminate it.

You'll find out.

[Flatulo]

140. Uh, the vast majority of us are not born sick, which is what I wrote. That leaves room for "some".

Also, you seem to have gotten the idea that I'm young. I'm actually 57, and I weigh what I did in high school 40 years ago. I swim every night, even though my back is degrading and I can't walk anymore. When I can't swim, I'll crawl, but I intend to keep moving until I drop dead.

I have a masters degree in mechanical engineering. I don't know if that qualifies as an education in your mind. I understand statistics and data analysis. I also understand endless whining and chuffing that all our problems are someone else's fault and that there's nothing we can do about it. This isn't directed at you personally, but at the general direction of this thread.

[Flatulo]

50. It has little to do with access to health care. Obesity and the resultant health problems

cut across all socio-economic lines.

Why We're So Fat: What's Behind the Latest Obesity Rates

While financial health has a bearing on physical health, the correlation is a complicated one. Culture, gender, education, biology, and even politics, play a role. America's so-called "red" states tend to have higher rates of obesity, experts note. Plus, the prevalence of cheap, processed foods, the layout of our neighborhoods, and access to parks and public transportation also factor into one's risk for obesity and, consequently, disease. And while poor Americans may find it especially challenging to access the ingredients of a healthy lifestyle, obesity is clearly not limited to the province of the poor. More than one-third of the nation is obese, according to some data sets, and that cuts across all income levels.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2012/08/16/why-were-so-fat-whats-behind-the-latest-obesity-rates

[Mimosa]

55. ^ Amen, Warpy! ^

We who've never stopped studying, investigating, agree.

[area51]

86. +1 what Warpy said.

[br]I'd say allowing 100,000 people to die per year due to lack of medical care is part of "culling the herd".

Too bad all we got is a tiny bit of health insurance reform, GingrichCare, instead of health care reform.

Republican '93 plan:

[font face="courier"]"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005."[/font]

Single payer health care is the way to save lives.

"Employer-based health insurance has always been a bad idea. Your life should not depend on who you work for." -- T. McKeon

[font face="times"]"Any proposal that sticks with our current dependence on for-profit private insurers ... will not be sustainable. And the new law will not get us to universal coverage ...." -- T.R. Reid, The Healing of America[/font]

"Despite the present hyperbole by its supporters, this latest effort will end up as just another failed reform effort littering the landscape of the last century." --John Geyman, M.D., Hijacked! The Road to Single Payer in the Aftermath of Stolen Health Care Reform

"Mandates lock in everything that is broken about our current health care system." -- Richard Gingery, M.D. [br][br]

[raccoon]

135. +1000. nt

[Oilwellian]

36. I suddenly feel the urge...

to hug a child.

[moondust]

37. #1 in profitability?

After all, isn't that what's important?

USA, basket case.

[rocktivity]

39. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" Award

And as long as treating the sick is more profitable, we have nowhere to go but down.


rocktivity

[Uncle Joe]

42. Kicked and recommended for belated stunning.

Thanks for the thread, Follow The Money.

[Hekate]

44. This has happened in my lifetime.

I cannot tell you how saddened I am.

[Demo_Chris]

45. I'm a half-full kind of guy... we are the MOST PROFITBLE!

[green for victory]

47. "we" either fix it or not. and if not, what kind of legacy do "we" leave

This man may have the idea for a start- who else in the medical profession is talking solutions? Mandating everyone to buy crappy insurance sure isn't going to do the job



David Healy, Pharmageddon
Has American health care been highjacked by Big Pharma?
http://www.amazon.com/Pharmageddon-David-Healy/dp/0520270983/

This searing indictment, David Healy's most comprehensive and forceful argument against the pharmaceuticalization of medicine, tackles problems in health care that are leading to a growing number of deaths and disabilities. Healy, who was the first to draw attention to the now well-publicized suicide-inducing side effects of many anti-depressants, attributes our current state of affairs to three key factors:

product rather than process patents on drugs, the classification of certain drugss prescription-only, and industry-controlled drug trials.

These developments have tied the survival of pharmaceutical companies to the development of blockbuster drugs, so that they must overhype benefits and deny real hazards. Healy further explains why these trends have basically ended the possibility of universal health care in the United States and elsewhere around the world. He concludes with suggestions for reform of our currently corrupted evidence-based medical system.

Check out the reviews.

Free podcast-interview with Dr. Healy- Jefferson Exchange- October 2, 2012 Phamargeddon
http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/show/jpr/id/2084251

[cantbeserious]

49. American Exceptionalism - Our Finest Hour - The FrightWing Is Ecstatic

eom

[graham4anything]

51. Why are the French not obese yet have the best food in the world?

Because they don't snack all day long.
Because they take REASONABLE portions, and don't refill the plates.
Because they don't drink 48 ounce sodas.
Because they do not eat fast food
Because there are no Walmarts.
Because they have the single best health care system in the world
Because they pay it forward
Because they don't whine about social security and medicaid because they don't have nor need it
Because they pay it foward
Because maybe they pay a little more when they are well and working
Then when they become ill, they get treated (in a very timely fashion) and when they heal, they go back to work.
Because doctors there are paid what the price is (reasonable) for a wage, but not based on forcing this more expensive but not needed work (why aren't doctors reigned in people's discussions about what to do?)
Because there are no bills when one goes to a doctor or a hospital. They are paid for
By the taxes they pay when working, paying them forward.

Because the French walk during the day

They are able to fit in and drive smart cars (thereby saving thousands on car costs, and gas yearly).

But more important- because they have a wellness program from day one, and because mental health is part of it. The French work hard, are anything but lazy(though America pictures them stereotypically otherwise) and because vacation time, and freeing the mind from the stress of work is taught to be important

and again
because they do not drink 48 ounce sodas, or ply their plates 10 feet high at some disgusting all you can eat that makes it so easy to become obese in America.

Yet their food is the best in the world. And very fattening, if eaten at America supersize portions.

BTW-I am a big fan of the ban on 48 ounce soda's in NYC.
How much damn soda does one need for a 90 minute movie, or a dinner?(with a full refill on top of it.)
It is enough to make 6 glasses to pass around.

It is also why they have MacDonalds in France, yet 90% of those that enter it, are tourists.
You can see anything you want in France, but very obese people are almost always tourists.

Yet the repubicantealibertarians would never want us eating like the French, being like the French, to them it is patriotic to be obese.
Wouldn't want the republicantealibertarians to say this is a "nanny state".

[Flatulo]

104. So you agree that our health problems are largely lifestyle related? nt

[Skidmore]

52. Because in America, health care is not about health but it is about

profit and all involved are on the gravy train--from the research groups to Big Pharma to educators to hospitals to front line workers. People are not in healthcare anymore to be healers but to have lucrative careers and to protect those careers they turn blind eyes to corruption and fraud quite often.

[closeupready]

75. Personally, I think that's a big part of why so much is so wrong

about the US health care system.

[Kalidurga]

53. Posted in another thread thought it would fit here as well.

These were my ideas on combating heart disease, but they would probably work for most diseases.


1. People need to get more sleep. We are an insomniac nation. Include me in on that I have had a sleep disorder or two since I was about 10 years old.

2. People need to eat a lot more vegetables and fruit.

3. People need to eat more fiber.

4. We need to make cities more walker friendly.

5. We have to make this country more income equitable (not cheap, but it is part of a comprehensive approach to the heart disease problem).

6. We have to make it ok for people to express their feelings and this includes women as many women don't want to be seen as being too emotional in the work force.

7. We need to teach people how to self sooth in ways that don't involve drugs or alcohol. Teaching yoga would probably be a good thing.

8. We need to put physical education back in schools and it should be for at least one hour every day.

9. We need to work on being less judgmental. A lot of people are very sensitive to criticism and with good reason. Many critics are critical of a lot of things that aren't their business, like if a young mother works outside the home.

10. We have to reduce this culture of violence. I am not saying put away violent movies and video games. But everything from our language to how we treat each other in conflicts reeks with violence even if it isn't physical ie a lot of yelling and posturing.

I don't think the obesity problem is an individual problem. I think the causes are many and there is little help to combat the problem. Also I don't think it is THE problem. I think it is a symptom and a problem a dangerous problem. I think the solutions have to come from individuals and communities. But in the meantime with or without community support it won't hurt each individual to figure out what can make them healthier and see what they can do on their own even if it is just eating a bowl of oatmeal, some more veggies, and getting out for a walk for 30 minutes a day. That might help a few people that are able to change habits. But, so many are stressed from working a couple of jobs and trying to hold it all together. We need to help them find solutions for their situations.

[Mimosa]

54. Tragic, compared to where we ranked in the 1950s

Even the 1960s through mid 1980s we were better off than now in many respects. Offshoring of jobs and declining wages have sunk prospects for many of us. Especially the young.

[aandegoons]

57. It won't stun the US

Cause we are number one and no one reads. So most will not know.

[etherealtruth]

59. What I find stunning is that anyone would be surprised by this

Unfortunately, health care is simply a consumer good in the US ... if one doesn't have means one does NOT receive health care.

Though I realize my experience is merely anecdotal ... I spent years as a hospice nurse. Low income earners often died of diseases that were treatable or preventable.

[FlaGranny]

60. My first husband

died at age 30 because when he was a child he had a bad sore throat. His parents could not afford doctor visits. It was rheumatic fever and it severely damaged his heart. That was many years ago, but illustrates your point.

[etherealtruth]

139. I am so sorry for your loss

Sadly, his type of thing still happens. Strep infections can damage your heart and kidneys. antibiotics may be relatively inexpensive (the "old line" one that is) ... but, if you can't afford to see the doctor ...

Again, I am so sorry for your loss. I am sure it was a los that you didn't think could/would happen to you at such a young age.

[csziggy]

145. Even when you can afford to see the doctors they don't take time

With patients to solve hidden problems. My BIL had been in and out of doctors' offices and emergency rooms for years. The doctors would spend maybe ten minutes with him, send him off for tests but never took the time to do a full workup to figure out what was causing his abdominal pain.

It wasn't until his pancreatic cancer got to Stage IV that an emergency room doctor figured out what was wrong - and it was far too late to save his life. Looking back at the history of complaints, it was obvious that his cancer had been manifesting itself for at least five years.

For profit health care damages even care for people with good insurance or ability to pay. If the doctors aren't allowed to spend more than a minimum amount of time with each patient, they can't really diagnose subtle problems.

[etherealtruth]

147. I am so sorry for your loss

The point you make is very valid ... physicians working for for-profit systems must see a minimum amount of patients in a specified amount of time.

Our health care system is very sick

[csziggy]

148. Thank you - that BIL was a great guy and he is missed

When I had my last physical, my doctor spent very little time with me. I had a list of questions, and each time he finished answering one, he tried to leave so I had to rush through them all faster than I wanted.

My veterinarian does a more thorough work up on my horses than my doctor does on me! Of course, he vet works for herself and does not have the pressure from a corporate owner to see as many patients a day as possible.

[FlaGranny]

149. Thank you.

It was a long time ago, but he was a good guy, good husband and father.

[burnsei sensei]

62. How's that health care for profit

and the individual mandate working out for ya?
The "best and the brightest" have been idiots . . . ever since the 1980s, when we decided that the government and charities should only help "the deserving."
This is what comes of seeing health care only in terms of health insurance.
This is what comes of our contempt for human frailty.
I'm not surprised.
And my sympathy goes out to those who have died, and those who will die as a result of this nation's self-deceptions and disastrous social self-neglect.

[AllyCat]

65. Dam* straight! And we pay good money for that too!

Last edited Mon Jan 14, 2013, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Obviously, we need more guns.

[closeupready]

69. "Who could have predicted this?"

[TreasonousBastard]

72. Lotta talk here, but nobody's got it right...

This study was hundreds of pages long, but once again everyone's got all the answers from a few paragraphs in the Times, if they bothered to click the link. Just like the blind men and the elephant.

Yes, our diet and health care priorities do account for a lot of this, but the article mentioned the study looked at not wearing seat belts, inner city shootings and other murders, drug addiction, and all sorts of other things that our extremely heterogeneous society has that aren't generally found throughout the developed world. And, unlike most other studies, this took a pointed look at who makes it to 50.

I betcha if anyone reads the study there's stuff in there about infant deaths in poor areas, scattered and often unavailable healthcare facilities in rural areas and in programs like Indian Health Care.

There's no one answer and really no select villains. It's what our country has evolved into and to change this requires changing a lot of attitudes-- even some of ours.

[closeupready]

76. Except for one thing: standards of living of typical Americans

has declined. Most all of us have seen our standard of living decline, whether in terms of income or housing or health care or access to higher education.

From that perspective, health care is yet an additional sector of society which a typical American has become accustomed to seeing take a downward trajectory.

[Maineman]

73. Crappy food, ignorance, bad choices, corporate profiteering, and for-profit health care.

[Brigid]

77. II would be curious . . .

How these stats for the US match up to those of the late nineteenth century, the days of child labor, appalling working conditions, little health care, no environmental safeguards, poor nutrition, and otherwise crappy lives for those who weren't of the robber baron class. I'll bet they're similar. We've definitely regressed from the days when postwar prosperity was spread around better.

[patrice]

79. = UN-HAPPY!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

80. The Worst Health Care Money Can Buy: per capita expenditure is highest in the USA. nt

[hughee99]

98. Exactly, that's why people have shitty diets, don't exercise,

have issues with addition, violence and drunk driving... The health care is too expensive.

[RainDog]

85. k&r n/t

[valerief]

91. It's not like the USA is a first world country for the 99%. nt

[Permanut]

97. Wait just a darn minute here..

The Speaker of the House, the Honorable John Boehner, yes, the Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States Congress, said,

"Gov. Romney understands that Obamacare will bankrupt our country and ruin the best health care delivery system in the world," ...July 1, 2012, edition of CBS’ Face the Nation.

As cited at

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/05/john-boehner/john-boehner-says-us-health-care-system-best-world/

And if the Speaker of the House says it, it must be true, right?

[aquart]

101. Yet not me.

[Flatulo]

103. Doctors can help to keep you alive, but they can't make you healthy.

Health is the outcome of lifestyle, and to a lesser degree, genetics. Sure, if your appendix bursts or if you have a tumor or high blood pressure, or tyle 1 diabetes, modern medicine is your best bet. But doctors are kind of like the police - they don't stop crime, they just come in and clean up the mess.

It takes discipline, hard work and dedication to be healthy. Our entire food chain is based on poison, from pesticides used in the agri business to high-fructose corn syrup and sodium packed into almost everything we eat. We're bombarded with marketing intended to make us buy and eat poison. We work such long hours that we don't have time to shop for and prepare healthy meals. It's easier to grab a foot-long steak and cheese bomb on the way home, or grab a quick bowl of Cap'n Crunch.

I don't mean to scold individuals for being obese, because the roots of it are embedded in our culture. But we do have a large degree of control over our health. Instead of having a foot-long sub for lunch at your desk, have a protein bar and walk five laps around the building.

Our obesity rate is 2X what it is in most of Europe, and our medical bills are also twice as high. I think there's probably a lot of correlation there.

[LanternWaste]

117. I think the study reaches a wee bit further than merely what we eat...

I think the study reaches a wee bit further than merely what we eat...

"It went further than other studies in documenting the full range of causes of death, from diseases to accidents to violence. It was based on a broad review of mortality and health studies and statistics. "

I think there may be a correlation there, too.

[Flatulo]

133. Yes, it does. But arent most or all of the root causes of our overall poor health

lifestyle related?

We seem to make bad choices on a variety of fronts. Drugs, alcohol, violence, work etc (although most of us would probably choose to work in a less stressful environment given the chance. We're understaffed, overworked and underpaid).

[noiretextatique]

138. i get your point about obesity, however, knowledge keeps you alive

there are income/race disparities in treatment, for breast cancer, for example. i had breast cancer, and because i did research, i knew what tests, treatments, etc., were best for the type of cancer i had. i had IDC, stage 2, and i was given a test that determined that i had a low risk of recurrence, so i did not have to do chemo...the oncologist did not recommend it. i did surgery, radiation, and hormone therapy. i had private insurance and went to one of the top hospitals in my area.

my friend, on the other hand, did not have insurance and had to seek treatment at the county hospital. she had IDC, stage 1, but was not offered the Oncotype DX test that i had to determine her risk of recurrence, and the she did chemo. this type of disparity is not as rare as some people think. my friend is alive...but not because of her doctor. she is probably alive because she decided to stop chemotherapy.

and then there (was) the problem of pre-existing conditions. another friend had uterine cancer and had to WAIT six months to have surgery because she was diagnosed before she got private insurance. thankfully, her cancer was very slow-growing, so she is fine. but as you can imagine, being forced to wait six months knowing you have a cancerous tumor was extremely stressful and probably didn't contribute positively to her overall health.

i agree people have to take responsibility for what they can control, but as i learned, knowledge is power when facing an illness. that includes knowing if your doctors are not looking out for your best interests. i had to fire my first round of doctors after i learned they gave me bad advice.

[Flatulo]

146. You have to be your own advocate. My appendix ruptured in 1998 and an incompetent MD sent

me home three times. I finally dragged myself to the ER (against the orders of my HMO, who said they would not pay if I went) where I was correctly diagnosed and treated. But I came uncomfortably close to dying from peritonitis.

I'm glad you took charge of your treatments and I sincerely hope you remain cancer-free.

[noiretextatique]

150. wow...that's just frightening.

i am glad you were your own advocate, regardless of what the doctor said: YOU saved your life!
and you are correct: you have to be your own advocate. i cringe when i hear the words: "i just do whatever the doctor tells me" that's a good way to die. i just reached the magical 5th year of being cancer-free

[Gregorian]

107. Yeah, but our military is AWESOME!

Shock and Awe baby!!!!!!!!!

[krispos42]

111. Captain Obvious says...

[ErikJ]

127. The top 1% is hogging all the profits and not paying taxes on it, so what do you expect?

[lumberjack_jeff]

129. No one in the developed world lives shorter lives, or pays more for HC, than american men.

I think this factors into discussions of "privilege".

[Rain Mcloud]

141. We may be almost last but we are still ahead of Somalia,and we get to carry guns!

Oh,wait, they get to carry guns in Somalia too,Damnit!
Okay so we are the same as Somalia but we still have something that they do not...........Trickle down.
Oh,wait, it was the trickle down that made us trickle down to the level of Somalia.
Bless that Laffer!

[99th_Monkey]

142. Many of the social evils in the US are associated with excessive INCOME INEQUALITY.

Which in itself, is disturbingly skewed in the USA toward being
increasingly UNequal for the past 65, at least; with the richest
1-2% taking an increasingly huger portion of the economic pie.

But this ALSO LEADS TO other evils, such as breeding corruption,
higher stress levels in the over-all population, leading to highest
incidence of heart disease, especially heart attacks, distortions in
the marketplace, lower productivity and efficiency in the workplace,
etc.

This 2006 article in the NYTimes gives an good overview of some
of the scientific findings and data on this phenomenon:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/business/yourmoney/25view.html?_r=0

[Flatulo]

151. It seems like every single person with half a brain knows this, so why is it so fucking difficult

to fix the tax code, which is the ONLY way to fix this. We can't set limits on how much people can earn, so we have to claw some back with taxes on income and capital gains. Real taxes, not some token 15% giveaway.

[99th_Monkey]

153. Because we've been largely entranced into believing a lie

that lie being that it would be "bad for business" and would
"hurt our job creators", etc.

Never mind that most every other "civilized" nation manages
to do just fine with less income inequality.

we^are^not^supposed^to^notice?

[DearHeart]

143. Maybe if we took profit out of "healthcare" and used a preventive course of care and action

instead of catastrophic care, we wouldn't have some of these problems. One example, most insurance companies will not pay for someone to go to a dietician until AFTER that person develops diabetes or heart disease. These companies would rather pay 20,000+ for open heart surgery or thousands of dollars on the diabetes supplies, medications, etc., but not a few hundred or a couple of thousand on teaching people to eat healthy. Utterly ridiculous!

[riverbendviewgal]

155. You know , that sounds like Canada's health care system.

I love my Canada health care. No bankruptcy from medical bills from my son and husband's cancer treatments. Glio Blastma Multiforme Brain tumour and Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

No bills for my detached eye retina surgery/2 MRIs and specialists.

[DearHeart]

156. You are very lucky to live in Canada! I hope that your son and husband are doing well and

have recovered and I hope that you're also doing well and have recovered. Maybe one day, the rest of the US will wake up and realize that the Canadian health care system is what we need! But, I'm beginning to doubt that this will happen in my lifetime and I'm in my mid 40s.

[riverbendviewgal]

157. Sadly they died but

I know all that could be done was done. Nothing was denied. My son had the same tumour as Ted Kennedy and he had the same kind of treatments...I checked on that.

My son had 3 brain operations, chemo, radiation, blood transfusions, 4 weeks intensive care, 1 week in hospital palliative care.

Husband had 1 operation, chemo (2 types) radiation, stem cell harvesting of his own cells, 1 month in hospital for the intense chemo and then replanted cells that were harvested. 3 months in palliative care in hospital.

plus the whole family had therapy sessions, together and individually and in peer groups.

no medical costs. just the cost of parking and TV when it was rented.
the government gave me $2300 for each of them toward the funeral costs.
I think our politicians know they would be voted out if they touched our health care. I think IMO that it has gotten better and more modernized.

Our government also negotiates with the pharmaceuticals for lowest prices on our prescription drugs.
Seniors pay $100 Annually for their drugs and then all their drugs are no charge except for the dispensing fee. some pharmacies don't charge that even.



Lots of preventative.. flu shots free. lab tests free. doctor visits free.
of course we pay in taxes...high sales taxes...13 percent in Ontario (fed and provincial combined) and my income tax last year was 25 percent. which I don't begrudge.

My NJ redneck brother says he does not want my socialist medicine.. I and my friends think he is crazy.

[DearHeart]

160. OH my! I'm so very sorry for the loss of both your husband and son!

I cannot even imagine the horror of what you and your family went through. I'm sending you my condolences and a big hug over the internet tubes

After what you and your family went through and with all of the excellent medical care and attention, I would think you brother would want the same. But, idealogies tend to keep some from seeing what is best. I would rather have higher taxes than be uninsured and/or going bankrupt due to medical bills.

Too bad I can't move to your country. You are the smart ones!

Hope you're doing ok! If you ever need a friend or a shoulder, I'm here.

[riverbendviewgal]

163. thank you dear heart

You are very caring. I have come to live and keep going. One has to go on. They died in 1999 & 2001. I feel I have to remind people that we never know when our time will come. My guys were healthy all their lives then cancer struck. Health insurance should be for all and not for profit. You are a good person and can understand this.

[DearHeart]

167. Thank you for your kind words! Our cousin just past due to colon cancer right before

Christmas. We've had others with cancer, but they were very lucky.

I agree, "health insurance should be for all and not for profit"! Hope you have a lovely weekend!

[FiveGoodMen]

159. I don't think that will last much longer if you guys keep Harper.

[burnsei sensei]

158. Many of the suggestions made in this thread

are more appropriate to a preventive than catastrophic course of care.
Still, the effects of poverty, if poverty remains a fact of life, will tell in the health of the impoverished individual.
There are some realities you cannot abolish with "advice and counsel."

[DearHeart]

161. Very true! There is just so much wrong with our country and the world and I tend to

keep the issues separate; don't connect the dots enough, I guess. Thanks for reminding me!

[woo me with science]

162. K&R