Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:17 PM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

Do you consider the United States to be a 'land of opportunity'?

I used to. Not so much these days.

43 replies, 1176 views

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43 replies	Author	Time	Post
Do you consider the United States to be a 'land of opportunity'? (Original post)	tawadi	Jan 2013	OP
Probably better than other places, but nothing like before.	Hoyt	Jan 2013	#1
Wonder if it's better here or in Europe?	tawadi	Jan 2013	#2
I think Europe has taken steps to make the quality of life better under today's economic realities.	Hoyt	Jan 2013	#13
Seems that way	tawadi	Jan 2013	#15
The old model has been abandoned	Art_from_Ark	Jan 2013	#32
I know. But, don't think we going back to that any time soon.	Hoyt	Jan 2013	#36
I believe there is opportunity	sarisataka	Jan 2013	#3
Well put. Thanks.	tawadi	Jan 2013	#4
I started in the cellar. I had no connections, but was lucky enough to get three important	bluestate10	Jan 2013	#9
Congrats	sarisataka	Jan 2013	#20
Lately, the United States has been a land of opportunists	meow2u3	Jan 2013	#5
Well put n/t	Fumesucker	Jan 2013	#14
Like most developed nations, its a land of exploitation	NoOneMan	Jan 2013	#6
Yes. As the first in my family to graduate from college, it has been a land of opportunity to me.nt	kelly1mm	Jan 2013	#7
Good to hear. eom	tawadi	Jan 2013	#16
Yes. I started out dirt poor. I worked against heavy odds and have done well in every	bluestate10	Jan 2013	#8
And you are in a blue state	tawadi	Jan 2013	#17
No, I am so thankful that I moved to Canada.	Grey	Jan 2013	#10
Were you avoiding the draft?	tawadi	Jan 2013	#18
They didn't draft 17 year old girls.....	Grey	Jan 2013	#21
Didn't even look at your profile	tawadi	Jan 2013	#22
May I ask...	Bay Boy	Jan 2013	#31
It simply means we applied to the Canadian government	Grey	Jan 2013	#40
There are a heck of a lot of opportunities in Canada	riverbendviewgal	Jan 2013	#29
Did I say that?	tawadi	Jan 2013	#38
The whole group is a bit touchy tonight.	Grey	Jan 2013	#41
Not like the golden times of the 70's, 80's, but a hell of a lot better than most times.	dimbear	Jan 2013	#11
We are dead last amongst developed nations in social mobility, inequality.	Romulox	Jan 2013	#12
right--no opinion necessary when facts are obvious	librechik	Jan 2013	#23
Nope	Hanzip	Jan 2013	#19
absolutely.	spanone	Jan 2013	#24
Today, I consider it a carcass picked nearly clean. n/t	Egalitarian Thug	Jan 2013	#25
No. The more you've got, the more you get. nt	rrneck	Jan 2013	#26
No more for the regular folk	riverbendviewgal	Jan 2013	#27
Clearly not.	lumberjack_jeff	Jan 2013	#28
When I was young and naive, maybe.	liberal N proud	Jan 2013	#30
I regard the entire world as a land of opportunity for people who don't limit themselves	slackmaster	Jan 2013	#33
I do.	cherokeeprogressive	Jan 2013	#34
Yes *your mileage may vary	XRubicon	Jan 2013	#35
Sadsack to lackluster breadth and depth of opportunity for broad prosperity	TheKentuckian	Jan 2013	#37
In some ways, not in others	Recursion	Jan 2013	#39
Better than most.	SirChanceAlot	Jan 2013	#42
Nope.	Brigid	Jan 2013	#43

Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:24 PM

Hoyt (12,360 posts)

1. Probably better than other places, but nothing like before.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:26 PM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

2. Wonder if it's better here or in Europe?

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Response to tawadi (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:13 AM

Hoyt (12,360 posts)

13. I think Europe has taken steps to make the quality of life better under today's economic realities.

We are still trying to operate under the old model that worked after WWII through the mid-90s or so.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:53 AM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

15. Seems that way

Thanks

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #13)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:21 PM

Art_from_Ark (17,097 posts)

32. The old model has been abandoned

The model that worked from the post-war era into the late '70s was based on living wages, long-term employment, reliable employee pension plans, and various other fringe benefits for employees. Today, about the only way people can have job security is if they do something that requires special skills that cannot be outsourced. Reliable employee pension plans are becoming a thing of the past, as are fringe benefits. And take-home pay for the average wage-earner has been losing ground to inflation for several decades.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:17 PM

Hoyt (12,360 posts)

36. I know. But, don't think we going back to that any time soon.

Wish we could.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:26 PM

sarisataka (2,290 posts)

3. I believe there is opportunity

but it is not equal for all. Starting out with money and/or connections is much better than being a nobody trying to do it yourself.
Likewise the upper limit of opportunity depends largely on where you start

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:28 PM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

4. Well put. Thanks.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:01 AM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

9. I started in the cellar. I had no connections, but was lucky enough to get three important

mentors that saw ability in me and worked with me to develop that potential.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:58 AM

sarisataka (2,290 posts)

20. Congrats

it is good to hear when it does happen; too much mobility is downwards these days. I hope you will choose to be a mentor to an up and comer when they are in your spot.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:40 PM

meow2u3 (14,015 posts)

5. Lately, the United States has been a land of opportunists

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:15 AM

Fumesucker (32,086 posts)

14. Well put n/t

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:40 PM

NoOneMan (1,750 posts)

6. Like most developed nations, its a land of exploitation

Even when the workers are getting the edge, its often due to outsourced exploitation and some other workers getting the shaft.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:41 PM

kelly1mm (2,254 posts)

7. Yes. As the first in my family to graduate from college, it has been a land of opportunity to me.nt

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:54 AM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

16. Good to hear. eom

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:58 PM

bluestate10 (8,667 posts)

8. Yes. I started out dirt poor. I worked against heavy odds and have done well in every

important aspect of life. May be I could have done as well in a handful of countries, but may be not. I like living in the US.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:54 AM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

17. And you are in a blue state

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:10 AM

Grey (1,107 posts)

10. No, I am so thankful that I moved to Canada.

I am so glad to have been to given the chance to move to Canada at an early age. (age 17)
Life here has been a little bit harder than if I had stayed in the US (I think). I would not trade this life for any of the other chances I may have had. And I was given other choices, but this was the best option for me.

thank you, Aunt Georgia, for offering me a home and the space to make my own choice about where I wanted to live.

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Response to Grey (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:55 AM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

18. Were you avoiding the draft?

Or just wanted better opportunities (which would be both I guess)?

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Response to tawadi (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:06 PM

Grey (1,107 posts)

21. They didn't draft 17 year old girls.....

I came here as a landed emigrant and later got my citizenship.
I would say it's one of the top ten countries in the world.

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Response to Grey (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:10 PM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

22. Didn't even look at your profile

Canada is a great country. Never said it wasn't.

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Response to Grey (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:20 PM

Bay Boy (1,120 posts)

31. May I ask...

...what is a landed emigrant?

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #31)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:25 AM

Grey (1,107 posts)

40. It simply means we applied to the Canadian government

to come and live in Canada legally. We were given emigrant status for a number of years before we could apply to become citizens.

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Response to tawadi (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:07 PM

riverbendviewgal (2,480 posts)

29. There are a heck of a lot of opportunities in Canada

We have top notch schools and universities, and one payer health care that anyone gets.

Why do you think that anyone who comes to Canada wants to avoid the draft?

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:39 PM

tawadi (1,994 posts)

38. Did I say that?

Last edited Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:40 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Amazing how someone will pounce on another poster, over the simplest things. jeez.

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Response to tawadi (Reply #38)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:30 AM

Grey (1,107 posts)

41. The whole group is a bit touchy tonight.

I think it's about the stubbenville thing. I know it's got my nerves on edge.
May I say I loved how you stood up to that fellow in the other post, earlier today.
Peace.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:49 AM

dimbear (5,301 posts)

11. Not like the golden times of the 70's, 80's, but a hell of a lot better than most times.

Take a sneak peak at the 19th century, frinstance.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:49 AM

Romulox (22,535 posts)

12. We are dead last amongst developed nations in social mobility, inequality.

The answer is objectively NO.

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Response to Romulox (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:02 PM

librechik (25,161 posts)

23. right--no opinion necessary when facts are obvious

America is not the land of opportunity now, if indeed it ever was.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:56 AM

Hanzip (11 posts)

19. Nope

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:03 PM

spanone (72,277 posts)

24. absolutely.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:03 PM

Egalitarian Thug (7,926 posts)

25. Today, I consider it a carcass picked nearly clean. n/t

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:04 PM

rrneck (13,980 posts)

26. No. The more you've got, the more you get. nt

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:05 PM

riverbendviewgal (2,480 posts)

27. No more for the regular folk

Only those with money and the old elite. It is who you know and who you blow.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:05 PM

lumberjack_jeff (24,723 posts)

28. Clearly not.

Class mobility is better just about everywhere.

That is not to say there is no social mobility, and exceptions can always be found to the rule - enough so to try anyway.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:08 PM

liberal N proud (43,918 posts)

30. When I was young and naive, maybe.

I much older and wiser, after fighting just to get ahead only to watch some corporate CEO wipe it all away so he could take a 200 million increase in compensation. Then to watch your children struggle and not find good paying jobs. I have come to realize, this is the land for the rich, at the cost of everyone else.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:22 PM

slackmaster (60,567 posts)

33. I regard the entire world as a land of opportunity for people who don't limit themselves

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:24 PM

cherokeeprogressive (15,320 posts)

34. I do.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 08:24 PM

XRubicon (532 posts)

35. Yes *your mileage may vary

I think overall it is.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 09:53 PM

TheKentuckian (17,531 posts)

37. Sadsack to lackluster breadth and depth of opportunity for broad prosperity

Stellar hight of opportunity.

A few can put Kings of old to shame, most aren't going too far anymore. If you do everything right and play by the rules, you might move up a notch as long as you didn't start out too high, then you most likely will tread water or fall back.

If you are fortunate or make the right connections you might come up pretty big but you will be the exception and odds are someone who worked harder and was smarter very similar to yourself didn't do so well.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:07 AM

Recursion (26,211 posts)

39. In some ways, not in others

It really is easier to start a business here than in any other country I've lived in, which is kind of what that phrase is talking about. It's a lot harder to work your way up in an existing business than it is in most countries.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:33 AM

SirChanceAlot (13 posts)

42. Better than most.

Last edited Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:36 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I've lived in foreign countries like Miami, Detroit, and Alabama. Let me tell you, America tops them all.

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Response to tawadi (Original post)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:37 AM

Brigid (10,742 posts)

43. Nope.

And it isn't just about economics either. This country is circling the drain, and has been for at least the past three decades. I know other countries have their own problems, but I would emigrate if I could.

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