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Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:13 PM

 

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)

Last edited Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:09 PM - Edit history (2)

http://www.justiceonline.org/commentary/fbi-files-ows.html

(Cross-posted from Occupy Underground.)

FBI documents just obtained by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF) pursuant to the PCJF’s Freedom of Information Act demands reveal that from its inception, the FBI treated the Occupy movement as a potential criminal and terrorist threat even though the agency acknowledges in documents that organizers explicitly called for peaceful protest and did “not condone the use of violence” at occupy protests.

The PCJF has obtained heavily redacted documents showing that FBI offices and agents around the country were in high gear conducting surveillance against the movement even as early as August 2011, a month prior to the establishment of the OWS encampment in Zuccotti Park and other Occupy actions around the country.

“This production, which we believe is just the tip of the iceberg, is a window into the nationwide scope of the FBI’s surveillance, monitoring, and reporting on peaceful protestors organizing with the Occupy movement,” stated Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, Executive Director of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF). “These documents show that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security are treating protests against the corporate and banking structure of America as potential criminal and terrorist activity. These documents also show these federal agencies functioning as a de facto intelligence arm of Wall Street and Corporate America.”

“The documents are heavily redacted, and it is clear from the production that the FBI is withholding far more material. We are filing an appeal challenging this response and demanding full disclosure to the public of the records of this operation,” stated Heather Benno, staff attorney with the PCJF.

(More at the link. Via Under Seal ‏@JLLLOW and Anonymous.)

---

Jason Leopold ‏@JasonLeopold

Here are sum long-awaited FBI docs on #OWS released under #FOIA. Abt 100 pgs. I still hve pending FOIA lawsuit for all http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/549518-fbi-ows-documents.html
Retweeted by Courtney Harrop

---

Dicey ‏@DiceyTroop

Hey @nytimes, did you miss page 61 of the FBI's #OWS FOIA d0x? The part where they talk about assassinating leaders?
http://ow.ly/glwD4
Retweeted by Courtney Harrop

---


FBI Monitored Occupy Wall Street from Earliest Days

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/26/headlines#12269

Newly revealed documents show the FBI monitored the Occupy Wall Street movement from its inception last year. Internal government records show Occupy was treated as a potential terrorism threat when organizing first began in August of 2011. Counterterrorism agents were used to track Occupy activities despite the internal acknowledgment that the movement opposed violent tactics. The monitoring expanded across the country as Occupy grew into a national movement, with FBI agents sharing information with businesses, local police agencies and universities. One FBI memo warned that Occupy could prove to be an "outlet" through which activists could exploit "general government dissatisfaction." Although the documents provide no clear evidence of government infiltration, they do suggest the FBI used information from local law enforcement agencies gathered by someone observing Occupy activists on the ground. In a statement, the group that obtained the documents, the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund, said they show that federal law enforcement agencies are "treating protests against the corporate and banking structure of America as potential criminal and terrorist activity."

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Arrow 106 replies Author Time Post
Reply FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP) (Original post)
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 OP
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #1
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #12
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #19
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #28
Berserker Dec 2012 #58
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #65
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #2
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #4
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #5
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #7
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #10
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #66
randome Dec 2012 #69
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #85
leveymg Dec 2012 #78
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #67
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #87
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #89
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #90
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #3
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #6
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #8
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #14
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #22
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #25
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #91
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #93
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #94
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #95
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #96
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #99
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #16
woo me with science Dec 2012 #37
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #59
Raksha Dec 2012 #103
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #68
sakabatou Dec 2012 #9
former-republican Dec 2012 #11
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #13
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #15
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #17
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #18
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #23
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #26
friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #60
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #79
forestpath Dec 2012 #20
AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #21
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #24
indepat Dec 2012 #36
woo me with science Dec 2012 #27
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #29
woo me with science Dec 2012 #35
indepat Dec 2012 #38
IDemo Dec 2012 #30
Zorra Dec 2012 #71
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #31
blkmusclmachine Dec 2012 #32
Jack Sprat Dec 2012 #33
savannah43 Dec 2012 #34
underthematrix Dec 2012 #39
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #41
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #73
daschess1987 Dec 2012 #40
randome Dec 2012 #42
LeftInTX Dec 2012 #47
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #62
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #43
jtuck004 Dec 2012 #44
Dawson Leery Dec 2012 #45
RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #46
zappaman Dec 2012 #56
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #74
AntiFascist Dec 2012 #92
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #104
white_wolf Dec 2012 #75
zappaman Dec 2012 #82
RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #88
MFrohike Dec 2012 #48
tledford Dec 2012 #49
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #106
Octafish Dec 2012 #50
upi402 Dec 2012 #51
Ruba Dec 2012 #52
blackspade Dec 2012 #53
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #54
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #55
Zorra Dec 2012 #57
MADem Dec 2012 #61
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #63
RandiFan1290 Dec 2012 #64
progressoid Dec 2012 #70
WillyT Dec 2012 #72
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #76
woo me with science Dec 2012 #84
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #77
Rex Dec 2012 #80
Overseas Dec 2012 #81
cascadiance Dec 2012 #83
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #86
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #100
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #105
quaker bill Dec 2012 #97
socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #98
upi402 Dec 2012 #101
Raksha Dec 2012 #102

Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:15 PM

1. Shocked, I tell ya, shocked

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:31 PM

12. Yep, a giant DUH! n/t

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:53 PM

19. The FBI is more worried about Occupy than crazy gun owners or the Tea Party because

the crazy gun owners are only a threat to school kids, movie goers, generally just the lowly public. They arent worried about the Tea Party because they are totally powerless. They are so stupid they think Taco Bell is a Mexican phone company. Occupy is a threat to the oligarchs. Therefore they turn the police on them and the FBI.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:30 PM

28. Oh they are worried about the insurrectionist in the tea party

And if they ever actually act up (I think it's possible) it won't be pretty either.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:19 AM

58. I agree

 

There are people here that think duck hunters are responsible for this shit. Can you believe it?

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Response to Berserker (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:01 AM

65. Duck hunters? No I dont believe it. Do you have a link? nm

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:16 PM

2. so they had a surveillance program...

 

A group getting that large, that fast is going to attract attention. Get the rest of the records, and sue where you can.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:19 PM

4. Ah, you mean like the Tea Party

You know, the ones bringing guns to town meetings on health care reforms.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:21 PM

5. Personally, I'd have pushed for busting the teabaggers, under

 

attempt at inciting a riot.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:22 PM

7. Where's the secret FBI surveillance of the Teabaggers?

I don't think we're going to see any evidence of that because the Teabaggers supported our corporate overlords.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:30 PM

10. Yep, the teabaggers are the real Americans, against everything the founders wanted the

country to stand for ... the rest of us believing TPTB are fucking us over with corporate overlords are seen as the enemy. Reminds me of the 60's, if you weren't for god, religion, waving the flag, burning crosses and killing people you were un-American.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:06 AM

66. Just "supported our corporate overlords"?????

Tell it like it REALLY is. They are a CREATION of our corporate overlords.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:11 AM

69. So file a FOI request about the Tea Party, then.

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Response to randome (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:23 PM

85. That was my point, thank you for making it for me.

No one has bothered to file one.

Remember, Teabaggers think government is too big, if you believe their rhetoric they would hate having the FBI wasting its time watching them.

Why wouldn't the Tea Party want to know whether the FBI was watching them?

Heh, you'd think they'd be screaming it to the skies if they were under surveillance, considering their fear of government.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:54 PM

78. FBI: First Amendment Activists = terrorists, anarchists; Second Amend = All American Patriots, AOK.

Literally, that's how some of them think.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:09 AM

67. Wait a minute. Aren't you one of the ones who claimed Occupy......

wasn't effective or useful? If that's the case, how could they get "...that large, that fast..." enough to call for a massive response?

DAMN! I'm always totally confused about the response to Occupy by the conservadems.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:44 PM

87. wow...

 

Okay... I've written a lot around here...

WHEN did I say that Occupy wasn't useful?

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #87)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:06 AM

89. If I'm wrong then I SINCERELY apologize.....

I sometimes get confused about the "moderate" response to Occupy. Most of the time it's something along the lines of "It didn't do a bit of good".

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:24 AM

90. Not a problem... There's been metric F*&K-tons of anti-Occupy propaganda about Occupy

 

The Occupy movement - at the VERY least - has changed the national conversation. It moved from the Austerity-is-God weirdoes, to getting people to actually look at the problem.

I helped the New Haven Occupy group get ready for winter. I offered up my generator, and then ran a battery ferry service. (I'd bring charged to the camp, run the flat ones back to my place, charge them up, and then return.) I'm still in the hole a bit, from buying groceries for the camp.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:18 PM

3. Nope, we were assured right here on DU that this definitely was not happening

Over and over and over again in fact we were told it absolutely was not happening and that it was conspiracy theory even to talk about it.

So this must be a lie.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:22 PM

6. Gotsta be. Even though DHS and FBI were obviously watching Adbusters mag (Canada) that early.

 

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:23 PM

8. I remember that. Right here on DU I recall posting an OP where Naomi Wolf

stated that this was happening. She was thrown under the bus faster than Dick Cheney when he lied about the Iraq War.

And they obviously started BEFORE Zuccotti Park. The originators of the movement began planning for it three months before Sept 17th and did a 'dry run' about one month before the movement actually began. So clearly they were being watched even before they began. I remember following the website and thinking it was a great idea, not to just go out for a day and protest, but to stay there in the public square which would make it much more difficult to ignore. I guess the PTB thought it was too good an idea also and were ready to crush it before it began.

Disgusting that we still claim to be a democracy.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:33 PM

14. And they wanted a head on the OWS dragon so they could cut it off. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:57 PM

22. I remember that too. As if they didn't understand the brilliance of removing

a moving target for the 'Intel' community. Imagine, we have to worry about our own Intelligence community going after US exercising our 1st Amendment rights. Aren't they being paid to watch for actual enemies of the US, NOT citizens exercising their rights?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:03 PM

25. Today, if you don't cave in and follow the herd, you're considered an

enemy of the state. ... unless an armed teabagger, and then that's oh sooo American and fine.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:06 PM

91. Irony... thy name is DU n/t

 

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 05:44 PM

93. Yep, it is ... n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #93)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 06:20 PM

94. With this much Irony, I feel I need a beer chaser... n/t

 

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 07:29 PM

95. ...

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #95)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 08:24 PM

96. at least that wouldn't be a cheap date... n/t

 

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #96)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 11:03 PM

99. LOL

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:35 PM

16. Much the same cast of characters is still telling us not to believe our lying eyes

Amazingly consistent, really.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:19 PM

37. We were also lectured right here on DU

that Occupy is lame and irrelevant, hardly worth noticing.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:29 AM

59. A thread with just that claim:

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #59)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 01:37 AM

103. Thanks for the heads-up. I only scrolled through quickly

but I noticed a very interesting pattern on those threads. Kind of hard to miss it, though.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:11 AM

68. You noticed that too?.......

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:24 PM

9. Not surprised

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:32 PM

13. Rick's Cafe.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:34 PM

15. I wonder if there is anything in the files about us on this web forum.

only half kidding.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:42 PM

17. Proabably. So: FUCK YOU, PETER KING!

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:51 PM

18. LOL


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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:58 PM

23. Let me rec this comment just so they have a complete list!

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:10 PM

26. They're probably out there right now saying "let's teach them a lesson."

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:37 AM

60. YEAH, YOU- YOU IRA SUPPORTING HYPOCRITE!

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:56 PM

79. If so,

 

"I think that you guys are doing a great job in protecting the country."

Isn't it nice to have an Administration that will listen to you?

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:54 PM

20. One nation, under surveillance.

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 07:54 PM

21. so THATS why DHS kept showing up at Occupy Rallies

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:03 PM

24. the 1% using our Commons to watch those fighting for the 99%

how apt...

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:17 PM

36. How fascist-nationing

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:17 PM

27. And NDAA shouldn't worry anybody...

It's gotten creepy in this country.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:43 PM

29. Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, NDAA, HR347 are all neocon power grabs post 9/11.

 

MIHOP or LIHOP, I don't care.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:14 PM

35. +10000

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:27 PM

38. Do all those listed bend over to protect the First, Fourth et al amendments post-9-11 with the

same vigor the Second Amendment has been protected? If not, would such be sacrilegious, duplicitous, oxymoronic, dereliction, pissing on the Constitution, trampling life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, or whatever? Just wondering.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

30. "Are you now or have you ever supplied food and clothing to a disaster victim?" n/t

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Response to IDemo (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:02 PM

71. lol! Perfect! nt

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:00 PM

31. A Report Like This Is The Reason I Sometimes Take Exception To The Obama Administration

Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:14 PM - Edit history (1)

eom

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:03 PM

32. Started WAY before 9/11.

Operation Northwoods: The 9/11 You Never Knew.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:07 PM

33. OWS is a threat to the core of power.

 

Wall Street IS the center of the ownership of the world. It's the control center, along with the London Exchange. So everyone works for them. The president, the congress, the judges, the DOD, the lobbyists, state and local governments, and the Intelligence agencies.

I think OWS was well aware that they has logically found the crux of power and what enormity they faced in opposing the dominion of all power. When the massive gate walls swing open, KONG is on the other side of that ancient wall. KING KONG.

And he's taking names.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:08 PM

34. I'll bet they have 100's of photos of people smoking doobies.

How much did that cost the taxpayers? If they're doing security work for corporations, let the corporations pay for the surveillance instead of taxpayers. As a matter of fact, no citizen should have to pay any federal taxes any longer, as the whole federal government seems to work for corporate America. What a giant farce this all is now.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:33 PM

39. If some of you believe the FBI is spying on you on behalf of

corporate America, why are you still buying their products? putting your money in their banks. Buy used as often as you can and take your money our the big five banks. Take a train or bus instead of a jet. Keep your car longer Get rid of your cable, etc.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:53 PM

41. Don't you remember 'Move your money day'? That was started by a

woman who was angry over more new bank charges. OWS joined the effort and millions of people moved their money to Credit Unions. The bank dropped the charges, people were arrested when they went to take out their money from the big banks.

I think many people have already done many of those things, but I agree with you, hopefully there will be an annual 'move your money day' supported by OWS and other Progressive organizations.

Of course it would really have helped if Congress had not chosen to make deals with those banks like Wells Fargo eg, who were caught illegally pushing people out of their homes.

However, we have a Government which does not prosecute War Criminals or Wall Street Criminals, so the people are doing what they can. AND they have been pretty successful considering the decades of corruption they are trying to fight. Which is why there was such a crackdown on OWS by Wall Streets 'army' of robo cops. This was the first big threat to them and they reacted violently to peaceful protesters. It is up to those who have not yet joined those who put their bodies on the line. And are still doing so.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:23 PM

73. Although it's relatively quiet, there is a "shop mom and pop" Christmas movement

 

hoping to have people avoid the big box stores and support local family business. A great idea!


OWS Outreach ‏@OWSOutreach

Shop local, shop union, shop #coops. #MerryChristmas
Retweeted by OWSTactical

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:35 PM

40. What about the Tea Party?

I know the comparisons are made all the time, but the German government favored right-wing factions over the left (after WWI), and look what happened. Granted, our situation is nowhere near as violent--yet. The left always seems to get crushed while the right is allowed to flourish and fester.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:56 PM

42. First, how was this 'secret' if the documents were so easily obtained?

Secondly, no one is afraid of OWS.
Thirdly, any large group of protesters SHOULD be monitored in case things get out of hand.
Fourthly, maybe the Tea Party rallies WERE monitored, although they never had the numbers of Occupy.

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:24 PM

47. There's gotta be some Tea Party monitoring

Militia/survivalist/white supremacists have been known to attend Tea Party meetings.

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:34 AM

62. Such weak counter-arguments

and why in such a hurry to make them?

1.) Clearly states FOIA. Arguing about how 'secret' they were is semantically nitpickish.
2.) They were.
3.) Oh really? By who? Using what techniques? Legal or not legal.
4.) Yes, o.k. Let it be known. But numbers don't necessarily equate to threat.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:00 PM

43. Same thing happened with the civil rights movement. N/T

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:04 PM

44. Better than not doing anything worth writing a report about. n/t

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:15 PM

45. Where was the FBI when the teabaggers were threatening an armed revolt?

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:21 PM

46. Please explain to me how the US is NOT a fascist nation.

Thank You!

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:43 AM

56. Ok I will

Let's break down some of what fascism is since you seem unaware.
These are some of what makes a country fascist...

1. Fascism utilizes a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation upon fascist principles.
We don't have that here.

2. The fascist party and state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the party, the government and other state institutions.
Nope, don't have that either.

3. You are able to post here that your country is fascist. If it were, would you be freely able to do that?
Highly doubtful.

There are many other reasons, but I have to head out.
If you'd like, I can supply some links and you can learn what fascism is.
Happy to help!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:30 PM

74. Perhaps the surest sign that we are not fascist is that Bush relinquished power

 

in an orderly and voluntary transfer in January 2009. So, in order to maintain the 'fascism' theme, its proponents then have to imply that Obama is also a fascist and that there is some sort of 'fascist continuum' at play. It's really making a mockery of the word and the concept of fascism to use it for the U.S. political situation and system. A fascist state and nascent police state are not the same thing at all, although both share a heavy reliance upon internal security organs.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #74)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 05:39 PM

92. Sorry I disagree...

those calling Obama a fascist have completely twisted the meaning of the word and tend to equate it with communism and socialism in general. While fascism might be considered by some as a militaristic form of socialism, it has nothing to do with Marxism and actually was brought about to counter the spread of Marxism in Europe and even the United States, to a certain extent.

The fascist tendencies of the US relate much more to the right wing oppression and spread of militarism under the Bush Administration.

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Response to AntiFascist (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 03:24 AM

104. Actually, I think we agree fully. Those calling Obama a 'fascist' don't have the

 

faintest idea what the word means and demean, whether unintentionally or otherwise, the memories of the many millions who were the victims of real fascism.

Obama is a capitalist. He believes that private ownership of the means of production produces the most optimal benefit to society writ large. Obama does not, near as I can tell, favor a one-party state nor a cult of the "leader," both hallmarks of the 20th-century fascist state.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:32 PM

75. Regarding 1...

The Vanguard is associated with Leninism, not fascism. Also, Hitler didn't gain power by a revolution. He tried that route and failed so he gained in legally. Otherwise I agree with you. The U.S. is not a fascist state. It is becoming increasingly like a police state, but fascism is a specific ideology.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:30 PM

82. Good point! n/t

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Response to zappaman (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 09:32 AM

88. My rebuttal

1: We do have a vangard party trying to initiate a fascist revolution, it's called the Republican Party
2: They do have a supreme leader, it's Grover Norquist.
3: I may be allowed to post now, but in a few years, it will be over. As a matter of fact, many of my posts that go against the mainstream have been censored by "juries" here.

As far as I'm concerned, fascism is the confluence of capitalist corporations and government. We already have that.

Perhaps we will change Merry Christmas to Happy Year End Clearance Season soon, to facilitate the thought of rampant consumerism.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:25 PM

48. I shouldn't be surprised

I never really thought about it, even though there are plenty of previous examples. It's creepy, but it's mostly pathetic. With all the crime in this country, it's absolutely pathetic that the FBI feels the need to do this. It just disgusts me.

If it turns out the tea party has been subject to same surveillance, which wouldn't surprise me, I can tell you I will be just as disgusted. They're fools, but they're Americans. Honestly, unless you're building bombs or trying to do so, without the prodding of overzealous police, this sort of thing is the mindset of overgrown children.

I understand the danger, but I can't help finding it disappointing and disgusting.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:28 PM

49. Of COURSE they were under surveillance.

They have the GALL to question the supremacy of corporate power in this, our beloved fascist state.

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Response to tledford (Reply #49)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:49 AM

106. "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:53 AM

50. We the People are now the enemy of our own state.

FBI works for management.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:56 AM

51. A very American thing to do

NOT!

We were taught to hate Russia for that crap. The worm has turned.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:15 AM

52. how long does it take for people to open there eyes

 

This isn't a democratic country, we are far from free, protest or saying the wrong thing and you will be in a jail cell quick. The media and citizens will be quick to label you. We hate to see the reality we live in. We hope Obama will stop all the infringement of our rights and freedoms, strengthen social security, medical care etc etc. Let the bush tax cuts expire, cut the defense budget that is run by corporations. Instead he has bushed right wing agenda, picked up right from where George bush left off. The government is gone and corporations are running this country. Whether you are a democrat or republican it doesn't matter. None of these changes will occur more citizens will be incarcerated under this president and gov. and maybe when everything this country has attained deteriorates, the people wake up and let there voices be heard. But first we need to wake up.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:24 AM

53. Holy Shit.

The tip of the iceberg indeed.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:31 AM

54. Why wasn't the FBI after War Criminals that lied us into war>

Why wasn't the FBI after the financial industry that ruined the economy and shifted so much wealth?

Why wasn't the FBI after politicos that did not represent the interests nor the wants of the People?

Why wasn't the FBI after abortion protestors or Teri Schievo?

Why wasn't the FBI after Iran-Contra and BCCI?

Why wasn't the FBI after the Tea Party?

Why wasn't the FBI after media monopolies owned by special interests that fling lies and propoganda?

Why is over 50% of Federal expeditures for the MIC and why wasn't the FBI after huge associated corruption?

Why? Because the FBI nis corrupt and not owned nor controlled by the People the agency supposedly serves.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:36 AM

55. I can't BEGIN to tell you how much I'm not surprised.

Been in demonstrations, organizations, etc. for nearly 50 yrs. The FBI does this not some of the time, not most of the time. They do it everytime.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:14 AM

57. But we already knew that for a fact, didn't we?

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:37 AM

61. Well, I think any terrorist interested in raising a little hell would find that organization a

perfect place to hide in plain sight. No organization, no structure, no membership cards or loyalty oaths, just a whole pile of people, many wearing masks and taunting authorities, making up a big crowd that butted up against large buildings in major cities across the land.

Easy to infiltrate--just put a few of "your guys" in there to get to know people and play along with the group's goals, and then, when the bad guys' new pals show up (assuming they need more people to carry out a nefarious plan) with the suicide vests and c4 hidden amongst the camping gear, they'd be more readily accepted by the larger group and be able to create their mayhem from within the group of peaceful people who would be stooges in the grand plan.

I'm thinking those sorts of people are what the "fuzz" were looking for...not the ones with the cardboard signs ...of course, those undercover agents write down EVERYTHING (or at least they did in J Edgar's day) so there's going to be "surveillance" that includes regular people, too.

Bottom line: If you are protesting in most major urban areas, smile--you're on Candid Camera. If you have a cell phone, a modern car, a credit or debit card, and use the internet, you're not "anonymous." Privacy is becoming a wistful memory in 21st Century society, at least in large cities...

I'd be shocked if the FBI weren't "in" there, actually.

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Response to MADem (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:07 AM

63. You might recall how vigorously we were told this was _not_ happening at the time

Right here on DU.

Bit ironic considering your last sentence.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:46 AM

64. The same people that shit on OWS for starting on a Saturday. nt

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:56 AM

70. No way.`

{insert 'not surprised' smilie here}

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:19 PM

72. HUGE K & R !!!




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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:33 PM

76. Your tax dollars at work. Still think a general strike is a bad idea? - n/t

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:41 PM

77. FBI = America's KGB. n/t

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:59 PM

80. Hoover wanted it this way.

The FBI is a social monitoring organization, nothing new there. They've been spying on civilians, illegally, forever. I'm sure during the height of the Cold War, the FBI had a spy in every big union shop.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:28 PM

81. Sad K&R.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:04 PM

83. I thought that COINTELPRO was shut down earlier by laws... Sounds like its been reborn...

... by the fascists that are starting to control our government again...

Sheesh! J. Edgar Hoover must be smiling in his grave now!

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:27 PM

86. Did I hear right they were planning to kill key Occupy people with snipers? n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 01:17 AM

100. There is something like that in there or floating around. I can't process it so I haven't searched.

 

The CIA are famous for throwing people out of small planes so it wouldn't surprise me. The sniper thing must be what happened to Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Kennedy, etc. :/

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #86)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 04:33 AM

105. This tweet suggests looking at page 61. I don't want to even know; it's too awful:

 

Dicey ‏@DiceyTroop

Hey @nytimes, did you miss page 61 of the FBI's #OWS FOIA d0x? The part where they talk about assassinating leaders? http://ow.ly/glwD4
Retweeted by Courtney Harrop

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 09:37 PM

97. Whatever

The Quaker FBI file was over 24,000 pages by the late 1980s. If they aren't looking you over, you are not doing the job right. Among Quakers, doing something important enough to actually get infiltrated is a quick path to bragging rights. We have since 9/11 been infiltrated by the DOD and featured in their "talon" database.

100 pages? That is it? You are clearly just getting started.

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Response to quaker bill (Reply #97)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 10:08 PM

98. I remember in the late 60s/early 70s..........

as you said, if you hadn't gotten your picture taken by the cops at some sort of demonstration, you weren't doing it right. It was a point of pride for us.

I KNOW I'm in the data base because they called me at home in 1980 or so asking about a friend, a friend that I hadn't seen in 8 years or so by that time. Small potatoes I know, but it's nice to know they cared.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #98)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 01:23 AM

101. We're all on the list

Anyone posting here is, most likely.

Especially during bushco.

But sounds like thinks are not improving much like we had hoped.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 01:26 AM

102. I read this earlier and wondered if someone would post it here at DU.

I hate it that it makes me feel so helpless, like there is nothing we can do about the creeping fascism--not even so creeping any more. I realize that "resistance is futile" attitude is exactly what they want, but it's hard to feel any other way when they have ALL the power.

Except the power of numbers. That's something anyway.

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