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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:13 AM

The whole "fiscal cliff" meme was brilliant Wall Street propaganda...

How in the world could anyone be in favor of going over a cliff???!!!

Except it's not a cliff.

It's just a change in a handful of fiscal policies. Changes that we can easily change back if we like. Or keep. Or some combination of keeping and changing. That's how self-government works.

Once you realize that it was just a scare tactic designed to get people to panic and agree to any deal at the last minute, even one that slashed SS benefits, suddenly it becomes very clear what they were up to all along.

37 replies, 2595 views

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Reply The whole "fiscal cliff" meme was brilliant Wall Street propaganda... (Original post)
reformist2 Dec 2012 OP
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #1
gollygee Dec 2012 #2
ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #23
el_bryanto Dec 2012 #3
gollygee Dec 2012 #4
el_bryanto Dec 2012 #5
phantom power Dec 2012 #6
Selatius Dec 2012 #8
closeupready Dec 2012 #18
bvar22 Dec 2012 #25
agent46 Dec 2012 #33
leftstreet Dec 2012 #21
Auggie Dec 2012 #7
banned from Kos Dec 2012 #9
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #11
reformist2 Dec 2012 #12
DocMac Dec 2012 #13
gollygee Dec 2012 #17
banned from Kos Dec 2012 #19
gollygee Dec 2012 #20
subterranean Dec 2012 #22
abelenkpe Dec 2012 #29
leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #10
sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #14
Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #15
closeupready Dec 2012 #16
bvar22 Dec 2012 #26
closeupready Dec 2012 #31
blackspade Dec 2012 #24
Lint Head Dec 2012 #27
dkf Dec 2012 #28
jsr Dec 2012 #30
Skittles Dec 2012 #32
BainsBane Dec 2012 #34
reformist2 Dec 2012 #35
BainsBane Dec 2012 #36
Eddie Haskell Dec 2012 #37

Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:21 AM

1. It's a maneuver laced with panic words. As you said, "a scare tactic designed to get people to panic

and agree to any deal at the last minute ..." and MSM will stoke the embers 'till it's a full scale panic ... and MSM will reap the $$$$$.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:22 AM

2. It's called the Shock Doctrine

and yes people are falling for it, and even us here at DU now that we're getting closer.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:12 AM

23. +1 nt

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:24 AM

3. I'm not sure how to take this

We are looking at cuts across the board to every program - including a lot of one's we don't support. While it's true that we can do nothing and the Bush Tax Cuts will expire and rates will go up, isn't it equally true that if we do nothing there were be harsh cuts in a lot of programs that don't need to be cut?

Maybe I'm missing something.

I think that John Stewart was right though - congress fired an asteroid at the United States economy in order to force themselves to figure out how to defend against asteroids. Only now it's turning out they don't know how.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:28 AM

4. It's about whether we come up with a deal now, or in January

Whatever deal we reach now will be worse than whatever deal we are able to reach in January.

This is the Shock Doctrine at work. Screams of "FIRE FIRE FIRE" and then the fear related to it being used as an excuse to attack programs the Republicans have been trying to dismantle for decades. They're trying to get their fingers in those so-called "entitlement" programs, and I feel very strongly that we need to hold firm that those programs are not available to them.

A deal can be reached very quickly in January with a more receptive Congress.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:31 AM

5. You could be right

What do you think of the theory that Republicans are considering voting for some form of bill to avoid the fiscal cliff and then fighting it out over raising the debt limit?

Bryant

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:21 AM

6. The question is, when will the Democrats learn to disarm this kind of framing?

I think they are starting to get better at combating these bullshit framings, but there's still plenty of room for improvement

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Response to phantom power (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:25 AM

8. They'll learn when the working class owns the press. The corporations own it. The workers don't.

Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one, and the working class doesn't own anything in that arena.

With a press under the control of a few comes the ability to shape the narrative to terms that favor those powerful, wealthy few.

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Response to Selatius (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:57 AM

18. Exactly what I just posted, but you did it better, I see.

+1

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Response to Selatius (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:05 PM

25. The "politicians" are In-On-The-SCAM.

In fact, with very few exceptions, THEY are willingly leading the attack.
Have you noticed that the Democratic Party Leadership always picks up the Republican Framing on every issue,
and then repeats the Republican Framing at every opportunity?



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Response to bvar22 (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:32 PM

33. I've come to the same conclusion

The Dems don't challenge the Rightwing framing because they're invested in the theater of it. Other than the fact it always enables a shift to the Right, I can't imagine what they get from the deal.

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Response to phantom power (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:05 AM

21. Why would they want to?

Both parties play good cop/bad cop until they get what they want from us

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:24 AM

7. K&R

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:26 AM

9. Ask Greece if their fiscal cliff is propaganda

 

you will get a better perspective.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:28 AM

11. Austerity killed their economic growth

maybe you should re-think your position.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:30 AM

12. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm saying the words being used are designed to shock.


That's what propaganda is.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:42 AM

13. Kos wants you back.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:56 AM

17. That isn't the problem in Greece

They chose austerity as the route to recovery, which is what these compromises are trying to do with us. Also, because of the Euro, their currency is tied to other countries, and that complicates things too. We aren't Greece.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:03 AM

19. Granted, we are not in the sad shape Greece is in but the symptoms are alike.

 

1- taxes are too low or go uncollected
2- entitlements are growing faster than GDP
3- deficits are too high

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:05 AM

20. The question is how to fix it, not whether it needs to be fixed

Austerity made things much much worse for Greece. We have similar problems, but we don't have to choose a "solution" that made things even worse for them.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:09 AM

22. Greece: another word intended to scare.

If we don't do something drastic right now, we'll end up like GREECE!

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:30 PM

29. We are not Greece

Austerity made Greece worse so following their prescription will only produce the same results.
We are a sovereign nation with our own currency a currency everyone else still uses to purchase oil. But hey, great job regurgitating right wing talking points.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:27 AM

10. and the people who know better "fall for it" every time...

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:49 AM

14. It's designed

to give the politicians cover after they screw us. When 7 out of 10 people don't want government to enact certain fiscal policies and it does anyway, it doesn't even take a 3 digit IQ to determine at the very least who Congress doesn't work for.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:54 AM

15. You got THAT right!

 

DURec

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:56 AM

16. Not so brilliant. Rather, Republican media newsreaders like

Cokie Roberts, George Stephanopoulos, Diane Sawyer and others promote the term as a means of keeping their own income taxes as low as possible.

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Response to closeupready (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:09 PM

26. The same "terms" are repeated from the White House podium.

It is NOT just-the-Media.





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:41 PM

31. In the United States, the media is traditionally another pillar

of government, referred to as "The Fourth Estate". When the media reports 'truth', it somehow means more than if you report some truth.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:37 AM

24. +1000

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:12 PM

27. This happens all the time. Why people don't get a clue is puzzling. We are manipulated.

Public Relations people are trained to manipulate. Deception is a large part of corporate and political sales jobs. They just don't call it lying. They will do anything to close the deal.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:14 PM

28. Bernanke coined that term in Feb 2012 warning about its effects on the economy.

 

BERNANKE ON THE FISCAL CLIFF AHEAD:

"Achieving long-run sustainability and providing comfort to the public and the markets that deficits will come under control over a period of time - that's very important for confidence and for creating more support for the recovery. But at the same time, I think you also have to protect the recovery in the near term. Under current law, on January 1, 2013, there's going to be a massive fiscal cliff of large spending cuts and tax increases. I hope that Congress will look at that and figure out ways to achieve the same long-run fiscal improvement without having it all happen at one date."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/29/us-usa-fed-bernanke-idUSTRE81S1DO20120229

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:32 PM

30. The fearmongering was started by Bernanke

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/07/business/la-fi-bernanke-economy-20120608

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke warns of 'fiscal cliff' risks
Fears of a new recession grow as Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire Dec. 31 and automatic spending cuts are set to follow. Businesses are putting expansion on hold.
June 07, 2012 | By Don Lee, Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON Fears about a looming fiscal crisis at the end of the year are starting to pinch job growth and threatening to undercut the nation's fragile recovery, a growing number of economists and employers say.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, in testimony Thursday before Congress, repeatedly warned about the so-called fiscal cliff a reference to the expiration of tax cuts Dec. 31 and the imposition of automatic spending reductions Jan. 1.

---------------------------------------------

What a bunch of crock.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:09 PM

32. sure are lots of DUers falling for it

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:20 PM

34. See if you think that when you get your first paycheck after Jan. 1

and it's 5 to 17% smaller.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:48 PM

35. I think I can live a month or two on less while they duke it out.


As for the payroll tax cut, that needs to go away eventually anyway, if SS is to remain a self-sustaining program.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:41 PM

36. the poorest will see their checks 17% lower

and those are people already struggling to provide basic food and shelter for their families.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:52 PM

37. Have to agree with you.

The cliff is the best deal we can hope for.

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