General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe whole "fiscal cliff" meme was brilliant Wall Street propaganda...
How in the world could anyone be in favor of going over a cliff???!!!
Except it's not a cliff.
It's just a change in a handful of fiscal policies. Changes that we can easily change back if we like. Or keep. Or some combination of keeping and changing. That's how self-government works.
Once you realize that it was just a scare tactic designed to get people to panic and agree to any deal at the last minute, even one that slashed SS benefits, suddenly it becomes very clear what they were up to all along.
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)and agree to any deal at the last minute ..." and MSM will stoke the embers 'till it's a full scale panic ... and MSM will reap the $$$$$.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and yes people are falling for it, and even us here at DU now that we're getting closer.
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)We are looking at cuts across the board to every program - including a lot of one's we don't support. While it's true that we can do nothing and the Bush Tax Cuts will expire and rates will go up, isn't it equally true that if we do nothing there were be harsh cuts in a lot of programs that don't need to be cut?
Maybe I'm missing something.
I think that John Stewart was right though - congress fired an asteroid at the United States economy in order to force themselves to figure out how to defend against asteroids. Only now it's turning out they don't know how.
Bryant
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Whatever deal we reach now will be worse than whatever deal we are able to reach in January.
This is the Shock Doctrine at work. Screams of "FIRE FIRE FIRE" and then the fear related to it being used as an excuse to attack programs the Republicans have been trying to dismantle for decades. They're trying to get their fingers in those so-called "entitlement" programs, and I feel very strongly that we need to hold firm that those programs are not available to them.
A deal can be reached very quickly in January with a more receptive Congress.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)What do you think of the theory that Republicans are considering voting for some form of bill to avoid the fiscal cliff and then fighting it out over raising the debt limit?
Bryant
phantom power
(25,966 posts)I think they are starting to get better at combating these bullshit framings, but there's still plenty of room for improvement
Selatius
(20,441 posts)Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one, and the working class doesn't own anything in that arena.
With a press under the control of a few comes the ability to shape the narrative to terms that favor those powerful, wealthy few.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)+1
bvar22
(39,909 posts)In fact, with very few exceptions, THEY are willingly leading the attack.
Have you noticed that the Democratic Party Leadership always picks up the Republican Framing on every issue,
and then repeats the Republican Framing at every opportunity?
agent46
(1,262 posts)The Dems don't challenge the Rightwing framing because they're invested in the theater of it. Other than the fact it always enables a shift to the Right, I can't imagine what they get from the deal.
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)Both parties play good cop/bad cop until they get what they want from us
Auggie
(31,169 posts)banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)you will get a better perspective.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)maybe you should re-think your position.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)That's what propaganda is.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)They chose austerity as the route to recovery, which is what these compromises are trying to do with us. Also, because of the Euro, their currency is tied to other countries, and that complicates things too. We aren't Greece.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)1- taxes are too low or go uncollected
2- entitlements are growing faster than GDP
3- deficits are too high
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Austerity made things much much worse for Greece. We have similar problems, but we don't have to choose a "solution" that made things even worse for them.
subterranean
(3,427 posts)If we don't do something drastic right now, we'll end up like GREECE!
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Austerity made Greece worse so following their prescription will only produce the same results.
We are a sovereign nation with our own currency a currency everyone else still uses to purchase oil. But hey, great job regurgitating right wing talking points.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)to give the politicians cover after they screw us. When 7 out of 10 people don't want government to enact certain fiscal policies and it does anyway, it doesn't even take a 3 digit IQ to determine at the very least who Congress doesn't work for.
Eric the Reddish
(106 posts)DURec
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Cokie Roberts, George Stephanopoulos, Diane Sawyer and others promote the term as a means of keeping their own income taxes as low as possible.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)It is NOT just-the-Media.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
closeupready
(29,503 posts)of government, referred to as "The Fourth Estate". When the media reports 'truth', it somehow means more than if you report some truth.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Public Relations people are trained to manipulate. Deception is a large part of corporate and political sales jobs. They just don't call it lying. They will do anything to close the deal.
dkf
(37,305 posts)BERNANKE ON THE FISCAL CLIFF AHEAD:
"Achieving long-run sustainability and providing comfort to the public and the markets that deficits will come under control over a period of time - that's very important for confidence and for creating more support for the recovery. But at the same time, I think you also have to protect the recovery in the near term. Under current law, on January 1, 2013, there's going to be a massive fiscal cliff of large spending cuts and tax increases. I hope that Congress will look at that and figure out ways to achieve the same long-run fiscal improvement without having it all happen at one date."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/29/us-usa-fed-bernanke-idUSTRE81S1DO20120229
jsr
(7,712 posts)Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke warns of 'fiscal cliff' risks
Fears of a new recession grow as Bush-era tax cuts are set to expire Dec. 31 and automatic spending cuts are set to follow. Businesses are putting expansion on hold.
June 07, 2012 | By Don Lee, Los Angeles Times
WASHINGTON Fears about a looming fiscal crisis at the end of the year are starting to pinch job growth and threatening to undercut the nation's fragile recovery, a growing number of economists and employers say.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, in testimony Thursday before Congress, repeatedly warned about the so-called fiscal cliff a reference to the expiration of tax cuts Dec. 31 and the imposition of automatic spending reductions Jan. 1.
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What a bunch of crock.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and it's 5 to 17% smaller.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)As for the payroll tax cut, that needs to go away eventually anyway, if SS is to remain a self-sustaining program.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and those are people already struggling to provide basic food and shelter for their families.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)The cliff is the best deal we can hope for.