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[Philosoraptor]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Philosoraptor) on Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:04 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Fumesucker]

1. Never even went to graduation I was so glad to be out of that hellhole n/t

[MotorCityMan]

69. I went to graduation but...

while everyone was cryng, I was so fucking thrilled to get out of there I could have done handsprings.

I was a brain thru school, and always harassed for that. Because I cared about my grades, and didn't have that much trouble passing tests, I was "different", which is the ultimate sin in high school. Plus, based on my friends, I was pegged as being gay (which was true), and that really made high school a challenge.

I can't say I ever thought of opening fire on everyone though, or of taking my own life. I knew back then that it would get better after getting out of there.

[bemildred]

74. +1. It was like getting out of jail.

Or better yet quitting a bad job after wanting to for years.

"You have to compete."
"You're not living up to your potential."
"You need to pick a field of study, you can't just do whatever you want."

[tech3149]

2. Pretty much, yea

I wasn't so much a loner but had no close friends. I still joke to this day when someone asks "How's it going?" somewhere between suicide and homicide. My turning point was toward the end of my senior year. I got close to a group of really sweet, thoughtful, and serious girls. They helped me realize that my pain of persecution was about to end and that I had a lot to offer the world.
Turns out I had more friends than I could have hoped for.

[hobbit709]

3. I was always an outsider.

I had very few friends in school. I was always the pink monkey in a cage full of brown monkeys.
After a while you learn to just ignore what people call you. If it's true, then it's true. If it isn't, then nothing will make it true.

[marions ghost]

4. thanx for your honesty

about this. And congratulations for making it through.

[kelliekat44]

5. What ever happens to those "bullies?" They grow up to become GOP, no doubt. nt

[Philosoraptor]

6. Mitt Romney was one

[rateyes]

15. for real? in your case?

[Philosoraptor]

39. No, but romney beat up a gay kid in his high school

[Javaman]

22. or as in my case...

a few of them died in prison, a couple died via drugs or gun violence and a few of them continued their loser lives into dead end jobs that equated to their narrow world view.

[backscatter712]

59. Sometimes, they become police officers...

[LeftofObama]

7. I'm thankful everyday for finishing high school

and getting the f*ck out of this cesspool of a town I was raised in. Yep, I was one of those kids and how I ever made it through those years still surprises me. My entire family stayed here, but I couldn't wait to leave. Now, many years later, as if fate has a cruel sense of humor, I'm back in that same town taking care of an aging mother. I find that the people haven't changed at all and it's like I'm living in the movie Ground Hog Day.

Whenever I have to go to the store or venture out in public for any reason I try to ignore the vile, despicable, filth that populate this sewer but they never fail to try to pull you into their gossip mongering rumor mill. If you don't engage in their hate fest, you're next on their list of targets.

The only thing that keeps me going is putting on my headphones and going to the gym and waiting for the day that I can finally get the hell out of here again.

[TahitiNut]

18. I'm having nearly the same experience.

Came back to be an "assisted living" caregiver for my mother. She died on August 1, 2009, after I cared for her for seven years. Now I'm "trapped" ... without the financial resources to (again) move back to California. (sigh)

Life's lessons are often very difficult.

[appamado amata padam]

54. Me too...

...I moved from a depressing town, in one of the stupidest, deep red southern states, to live in NYC for well over 10 years. I went back to help my Mom and family when she was dying. Now I am in a financial sinkhole. I don't know how, but I will get back to NYC if it's the last thing I ever do.

[Scruffy Rumbler]

70. Wow, this is four of us.

My mother made sure I had a career that would get me out of this town. 25 years living in some of the greatest places (and not so great) in this country..... Am now back in the same small minded, bigoted racist hometown area.

Would never have moved back to this place after my experiences in school and abusive family members. The ONLY thing that brought me back here was the profound needs of my mother.

[Dawson Leery]

62. Small homogeneous towns are garbage.

[jollyreaper2112]

8. Yeah

Yah. Your background will color how you see these things. Back when columbine happened my first reaction was "wow, I wonder how much those kids had it coming." Sort of like someone who was sexually abused by a parent hearing a news story about a child killing a parent and says "hold on, everyone, we don't know if this was senseless and unprovoked." Most people imagine how horrific it would be for them to kill a parent or their child to kill them, casting it in the light of healthy relationships.

I think as far as bullied kids go, the ones who only kill themselves were probably the best people, emotionally speaking, incapable of inflicting pain on others, even if they are tormentors who should suffer.

But again, so much of this is projection. We identify with the victim because our experiences in high school were probably similar. The prom king and queen complaining about their problems? Yeah, wouldn't know anythjng about the difficulty of being so damn popular and successful. Must be a terrible cross to bear.

[Philosoraptor]

9. Even cheerleaders get the blues

The only time I ever fought back against bullies was when I saw them picking on the 'retarded' kid in our class. I walked up to three bullies and said, 'If you want to pick on someone, pick on me, leave him alone or I'm going to rip you in half".

They left the kid alone, the kid escaped the bullies, and they never picked on him again. I just never had the courage to defend myself, but when I saw another kid being bullied, I was moved to act.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. I was on the cheerleading team and was still one of those kids. Was constantly

put down, even by kids younger than me. Had rocks thrown at me, was spit in my face, and the spitter guy also made me and my and his siblings drop trou so he could switch us with a blackberry bramble. Oh, and he also tried to run me down with an ATV.

Add to that undiagnosed and untreated bipolar..... wheeee! Some days I am still amazed I didn't kill myself, but I don't think I would have ever killed anyone else, not even that jerk and his friends who tormented me from the cradle all the way to high school graduation.

[lunatica]

11. I was one of those who defended the kids people picked on

I went to many schools but I remember one when I was in high school where I actually had a group of what are now called nerds or geeks who hung around me. No one picked on them when I was there. I was perfectly comfortable with them and considered them my friends. It didn't occur to me until much later that they saw me as their protector.

I was a tomboy growing up and thought nothing of fighting with boys that were bigger than me. I always won. I guess a fierce girl can be pretty scary to bullies.

edited to add that my reaction to Adam Lanza was to wonder how bad his life may have been to drive him to do what he did. No one in their right mind would do what he did. I can't hate him. I only wish he had gotten help. And that doesn't diminish my grief over the innocent victims. I've cried every single day since the massacre.

[Philosoraptor]

12. My pal!

I once did that, put myself in between 3 bullies who were picking on one of the nerds, but I never had the guts to defend myself.

I saw a girl beat the crap out of a bully one time too, it was a thrill, and the bully never bullied again.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

32. Bullies are cowards...

its what makes them bullies. We had just moved to PA from Brooklyn, NY when coming out of school one day a car load of bullies stopped and asked my skinny as a rail 14-year-old brother where one of the teachers could be found. My brother didn't have a clue and the driver reached out of the car and grabbed him by the shirt front and had him standing on his tiptoes while threatening to beat him to a pulp. The goons were laughing. I came upon the scene and demanded my brother be released.... Stupid said "Make me" figuring there was nothing a girl could do.... Now his arm is extended through the window of the car and I brought my elbow down so hard on his bicep that he howled in pain and released my brother. I bet that arm was pretty useless for a few days. Just then the football team exited the high school and came over to "investigate' The bullies drove off, never to return.

I'm so sorry you had such a miserable time but I do hope that if you have children of your own you will teach them that bullies are cowards and can be made to back down.

[Odin2005]

81. Folks like you are my heroes!

[The2ndWheel]

13. I'm not sure what I was

Which makes sense.

I wasn't bullied in high school, too big of a guy, but I was invisible. Smart, and everyone commented on that, teachers, other students even, but it wasn't worth much. It was more of just asking why aren't you doing better, but that was it. Of course I was shy and introverted. I got up enough guts to go out for the football team in my senior year, knew I'd make it, because I was always an athlete and played sports, and I did make it. It also ended up not being worth much socially.

Part of that was I never really didn't like being a by myself, but I did want a social life. Just didn't know how to go about getting one, since I was never comfortable in my own skin. A few cries for help for lack of a better term. The biggest one being screwing myself academically, in that I started cutting classes in high school, and not doing homework, or failing tests, and that sort of thing. Not exactly purposely, it wasn't any sort of experiment on my part, but it just kind of happened because it was depressing for me to be at school. That ended up not doing much for me either. I think there a trip to a counselors office one day, that was about it.

I can't say I ever thought about shooting up the school though. However, in terms of the isolation that these guys that shoot people feel, I can relate to that. I did withdraw, almost completely, around 15. Not just cutting classes, but stopped going to school at all. Awkward socially, trouble verbally communicating thoughts, getting trapped inside your own head, etc, etc. Those things didn't start in high school for me, but that's a long boring story. I do get why it can just become a much tougher issue to deal with in high school though.

[IDemo]

14. I fit the profile pretty well back then

Although I had no feelings of violence toward anyone, I also had no feelings of any kind. I did very well scholastically but my outside activities consisted entirely of reading, drawing and sleeping. And I can relate to the long quiet sessions in the barber chair.

[grahamhgreen]

16. I worked at columbine after the shooting

It was surprising how many of the kids sympathized with the shooters..

[Nay]

78. It would be interesting to know how many of the murdered Columbine kids were actually

bullies whom the shooters hated. Do you have any insight into that?

I was a loner in HS as well. Smart, quiet, nerdy, not beautiful. Invisible. Never felt like shooting up the school, but I sure never went back to any reunions, etc. I got out as fast as I could.

[grahamhgreen]

85. It was a long time ago

and I tried to forget about it, but as I recall, they did get some of the bullies but also shot a lot of innocents....

They were really picked on heavily in the schools, and I was told they had also built replica of the school in "doom" or some similar video game (which was never reported to my knowledge)......

The other odd thing was these kids grew up in fantastic areas, one of them lived in a stunning house out near Red Rocks.....

Never been back to a reunion myself!

[dembotoz]

17. yep me too

thank god i got away to college


what i fear about newtown fall out is that the outsiders in high school will become really outsiders.
will it become even worse for us now????

not only will you exclude me
but now you will want to drug me too?????????

[zeemike]

19. Well it is not just nature...far from it.

It is the system.
High schools are not about education...if they were the most admired student would be the one with the best grades not the jocks and the cheerleaders.
Hi school is there to teach kids to conform to the social class system

[rtassi]

24. yep ... former HS teacher ...

[tama]

53. +1

[Dawson Leery]

63. American secondary schools are inferior.

Sports do not belong in school.

[Javaman]

20. There are the "typical" types and the not so typical types...

I have/had a physical issue that caused me to be the brunt of ridicule and bullying from first through 12th grade. If there ever was a person who should have acted out, it was me, but I didn't.

I got picked on incessantly. I had gotten numerous death threats and threats of physical permanent harm. Never a day went by when I didn't get bullied. My entire childhood consisted of one wish, to have a day where I didn't get picked on or bullied.

I never took the bus home because I would get picked on and bullied.

I instead walked the 3 miles home from Jr. high and high school just to avoid it.

I began running home.

I took that and turned to my advantage and joined the track team. The track team in my school was a collection of misfits that pretty much fit the same mold I came from; social outcasts who struggled to be included somehow.

Over time, I became the captain and won the MVP. One would think, "hey, he's the captain of the track time, that's got to be worth something, right?" If you recall the first part of my post, I stated, "I have/had a physical issue that cause me to be the brunt of ridicule and bullying from first through 12th grade." It meant nothing.

I couldn't wait to get out of that hell hole.

[Orrex]

21. In high school I was socially awkward in some ways, but...

I had a strange take on the "I'LL SHOW THEM!' fantasy.

Rather than imagining going in and shooting up the school, I envisioned myself saving the school from some sort of hostile incursion. There wasn't a lot of talk of terrorists on US soil back in those days, but I thought about "saving" my classmates from hostage-takers or criminals who had taken refuge in the school.


Because, you know, nothing inspires fear in the criminal heart like a scrawny high school junior!

[easttexaslefty]

23. I was one of those kids.

So painfully shy I couldn't eat lunch around the other kids, would pee myself rather than raise my hand to go to the restroom, & own tranqualizers by second grade to stop the every morning vomiting in total terror of going to school.
Luckily for me ( I guess ) being a girl I was not singled out like the boys were for bullying. I guess I somehow succeeded in making myself fairly invisible.
My younger brother did not fair as well.
When I grew up and had children, I moved to a rural area with a small school system. The classes were small and they had the same friends from primary school thru high school. I think that helped. Both boys had many friends and had their niche'.
I worry about my little nephew. He's really really bright but "different".

[H2O Man]

25. Powerful OP

Thank you for this.

I found school to be difficult for a variety of reasons. I could get good grades rather easily, but was totally lacking in both social skills and self-esteem .....both being products of the rather stark existence that was my home life. But the one thing I could do extremely well was fight, and that kept me from being picked on much, at least to my face.

Looking back on my life now, I think that I have done some pretty amazing things. Just the fact that I'm not dead, or in prison, suggests that I beat the odds. I had a rewarding career in social work; did some teaching; and have been a successful grass roots activist. But the most important thing I've done is provided a stable, fun home-life for my four children.

Still, my younger son calls me "the only human being with no friends." Of course, I do have a few friends. But, much like that kid I used to be, I find peace in being alone.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

34. Tell your son there is at least one other like you...

I, too, find peace in being alone and high school was not particularly difficult for me. While I was never the prom queen, I always had dates and got along with the other kids in the school. However, having moved from Brooklyn, NY to a small town in northeastern PA during the summer between my sophomore and junior years, I was considered 'different'. The teacher in charge of the cheerleaders and drill team wouldn't let me try out for either because I hadn't been enrolled from the beginning of high school.... I think much of the abuse that takes place in schools is the fault of teachers who bring their own inadequacies to the classroom.

[LiberalLoner]

76. +1

[rtassi]

26. On kind of a different edge ..

I was not at the high position of popularity ... but my brothers and I were musicians, and as such accorded some respect as we could actually play ... My eldest brother was murdered steps away from me as I saw the stabbing unfolding perpetrated by a kid I had never seen in school before ... and tried to reach him ... but I was 50 ft too late to intervene ... it was just outside the music building where we would all gather after school ... It shocked our entire community ... changed our lives ...

We were luckier then most I suppose as we were surrounded by love and support through our church and closest friends ... and music became a greater refuge ... but I will never forget the anger that was expressed to us from people we had never had any contact with in the school or the community at large ... hateful mail, phone calls, threats ... this happened when I was a 14 year old freshman, my brother was a 18 year old senior ... been almost 45 years and still can't make any sense of it ...

[renate]

83. that is horrible on top of unimaginable....

I am so sorry that not only did you lose a brother that way but that you actually SAW it and were unable to help even though you did your best. I can't imagine. That is heartbreaking. It's so sad not just for your brother, who was killed so pointlessly at such a young age, on the cusp of starting his own life... and for your whole family who lost someone so suddenly and painfully... but it's saddest of all for you, living with that memory for more than four decades.



I don't think it's possible to make any sense out of the phone calls and threats afterwards. What ugliness there was inside the people who did those cruel things.

[IDoMath]

27. Yes, that was me exactly

To be honest, the fantasies never went away. I often wonder what the difference is between me and these shooters. At any given point I can say I had things I wasn't willing to 'throw away' for such an act - I had supportive parents and I knew I had a bright future if I just survived that hell hole. I have always had someone I wasn't willing to hurt or some hope for the future that kept me far away from acting on it.

But what if I didn't? Is that what happens to these people? I don't know...

[JanMichael]

58. I think I had the same thoughts.

I was about to snap on so many levels but I did have supportive adults and some friends that I felt connnected to.

Less those people I could have ended up on drugs, dead, or in jail, or worse. I didn't want to hurt or lose them; that was the possible "loss" that stopped my more extreme thoughts.

[Myrina]

28. Thank you, Philosoraptor.

You said what's been rattling around in my mind for the past few days.
I too was one of those 'wierdos'. Still am.

[Bohunk68]

29. Thank you Philosoraptor for posting this.

So many of us can relate. I was one of the two smallest kids in my class. Smart and knew at an early age that I was gay. That terrified my even more because I saw what my classmates thought of "my kind". My stepfather abused my from age 9 to 16. Not just sexually, but psychologically as well. This past week's events made me remember the times that he pointed a rifle at me and I believed the end was near. I was the sicko to him, because I brought out his own tendencies, never mind that it was my head pushed down in his lap while driving. Meatloaf's dashboard light song meant a different thing to me. The rest of my classmates were not too bad except for a couple of larger boys in the shower room at gym class, which I absolutely hated. We had to shower and I would get in and out just as fast as I could. I didn't even go to my 50th class reunion last year because none of them had ever kept in touch with me and what was there to share with them?

I live openly in a rural area and still some of the males treat me as an inferior and talk down to me and say things they would never say to a non-gay man. This, even though I have been elected to and served on Town Council, and serve the community in numerous other ways. I've even had our Conference Dean (ELCA) try to get me removed as a Congregational Deacon, but thanks be, my congregation essentially told her to fuck off. A couple of weeks ago I spoke to our Council President as to whether if I should meet someone (my partner of 27 years passed from pancreatic cancer 6 1/2 yrs ago) could I get married in the church now that NY has marriage equality? She said she would be very hurt if I did not and so would the congregation. That they would love to see me with someone again.

Does it get better? It's a mixed bag. Thanks to all of you above who have shared with all of us. May you have peace.

[Philosoraptor]

42. I was the school crippled kid, & I befriended the gay kids

I had polio and wore a leg brace and missed a lot of school cause I was in the hospital a lot. I had several gay friends, though I didn't realize they were gay till many years later. All of us from the Island of Misfit Toys.

[hunter]

50. My two years in high school were hell. I had gay friends too.

One of them killed himself.

Unlike me he wasn't bullied much because he could act the part of a "normal" high school student.

He was a brilliant kid who would have contributed a lot to this world.

[Odin2005]

82. I had to get ready for gym in a seperate room because the bullying was so bad.

I can't even use the locker room at the YMCA because it triggers my PTSD. Don't swing towels around me, either.

[Marrah_G]

30. I was one of those kids too

I have no fond memories of high school.

[Sentath]

31. I'll just leave this here.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/99/04/25/1438249/voices-from-the-hellmouth

I'm not in there, but I'm well represented none the less.

[DinahMoeHum]

33. There were times myself. . .

when I wish I could get ahold of a firearm and waste those bullies I had to deal with back then. The problem was far worse for me in junior high - in fact, I got suspended for half a day for pulling out a knife on a bully.

More often that not, though, I had far more subtle dreams of dealing with them, such as rigging a booby-trap in their locker, or poisoning a food item in my lunch hoping they'd steal it.

As it was, I often gave cheerleaders the stink-eye, and thought of them as "prick-teasers" and w****s. I gravitated far more to sister jocks, and played field hockey and lacrosse. Also, to the music folks, such as band or chorus. My idea of having a great date was being at a high school hockey game on Friday or Saturday night.

But, man, I can totally relate to you. However, my town is still a great place to be after all these years, and during the fall, I sometimes come to a football game.

Still, I get the shivers when a mass shooting like Sandy Hook or Columbine happens. I keep thinking "there but for the grace of G*d that shooter would have been me" way back then.

[get the red out]

35. I was one of those kids

I didn't daydream of killing because that wasn't on the radar way back then but I developed the kind of burning hate for my tormentors that no one imagines a young girl, making good grades, considered talented by adults, capable of having. My life stayed hell for a long time too. I was messed up.

I understand what goes on in the minds of those shunned and hated by their peers, I think of it every time something like this happens.

[Lilma]

36. To all of you.

To all of you. I am so sorry for your high school experiences.

I grew up in a small town and graduated high school in 1965.
If there was bullying I never saw it. The sports teams and cheerleaders
were held in high regard-well not our football team that finally tied a
game after 2 years. The really smart kids were the ones who were really
held in a special place.

The kids I felt sorry for were the ones who came from poorer families. They were never on a sports team, the cheerleading squads, the honor roll. They were just ignored. Is this a form of bullying? It might have been back in my day. And I am sorry to say that I never, never really had a real conversation with some of these kids through years of school. This is something I didn’t realize until I got older and had a chance to think about my high school days. I should have gotten to know some of these people better. They were a part of my community. I was in high school.

I am so glad that those of you who had thoughts of doing harm to others didn’t act on those thoughts. I am so glad that you survived high school and are here today. I am so glad that my three daughters grew up in the same high school as I did and didn’t have to put up with bullying.

I would love to say that I would have had the courage to stand up to a bully-but that was high school. Who knows what I would have done? I applaud those of you who did stand up to a bully.

Thank you for your posts. It helps to understand what some students are going through and why so many consider high school hell.

[bulloney]

37. I don't know how old you are, Philosoraptor, but, I saw lots of bullying in my school days.

I think the reasons why you see so many cases of bullied kids respond with guns today can be traced to a lot of things:

1. Since my school days, our society has become numbed to what guns can do. We have video games where a person can be a Rambo wannabe and blow up half of a country by himself, and kill dozens of enemies in the comfort of his basement and not be killed or hurt; you just restart and repeat the process. We've become insensitive to violence. Over the years we've seen increased violence on TV and movies in graphic detail. In the end, we just walk away from the screen no worse for the wear.

2. Guns are more accessible, especially those made for things other than hunting game. When I was in school, you never thought of buying assault weapons or other firearms that fire many rounds in a few seconds. You never saw them. And now, these types of weapons are accessible and their use is glorified, thanks to TV and movie shows and video games. And somehow, in this country's twisted society, this is justified thinking and behavior in that somehow, we're preserving our basic human rights.

I think if the students in my school days 40 years ago were exposed to the nonstop violence in the media and had the access to firearms the way kids do today, there would have been more mass killings in schools back then.

[Philosoraptor]

44. I'm 61, graduated HS in 69

Back then, gun stores only sold handguns and shotguns and squirrel guns, not machine guns.

And there was no drug use in my school at the time, we were a bit isolated.

There are so many more social problems that modern kids have that some can't handle.

[bulloney]

47. I agree. Good point on the access to drugs.

More kids go home to dysfunctional families which messes with their heads.

You're not much older than me. I'd say we had similar mindsets and environments in our school days.

[ananda]

38. We need to end the violence and bullying.

Me.. I felt different and lonely in school, but it came from the home where I was bullied by my mother and sister. I allowed my sister to bully me because I wanted to be a saint in some sort of romantic fashion. There was a lot of Catholic guilt at play too. It's a hard pattern to get out of in any school situation. Whenever I'm in a classroom and stand up to the teacher bully (there's nearly always one), the class goes much better; but often I forget or else am too lazy to bother since I'm just subbing now and I don't have to take difficult jobs. I have noticed that the class bully is much happier after you stand up him or her and show them who's boss. I think that would be true of any bully. You don't have to reject them entirely, just stop the bullying. If they still persist in bullying, then you have to separate completely and that is sad but necessary sometimes.

Also, personally, leaving home for college never to return was a godsend. I made friends, had a social life, and I've been a happy soul for lo these many years. I also discovered introvert heaven and just love doing my own thing without interruption. Being silent with my inner self and thoughts is my idea of bliss, and luckily for me my neighbors are nice and quiet too and we get along great.

[Philosoraptor]

45. Bullies should get punched square in the nose & kicked in the groin

Seriously, I saw it happen in highschool, a girl beat the crap out of Louie Shultz, the biggest bully in town, bloodied his nose and broke his balls in two seconds. He retired from bullying.

[JanMichael]

57. Great story! I saw a similar thing in 6th grade. Super bully...

...kept picking at this heavier girl. One guy, tall lanky geek, intervenes and bully starts in on him. Bully was a stocky tall kid so figured geeky kid would get killed. Geeky kid went all rage on his ass. Just went nuts with tears and rage and overwhelmed bully boy. It was a scream. That was the last of bullying in 1979 in my class. Hell the teachers were freaked by the geeky response to bullying.

[riverbendviewgal]

40. I was bullied

Being 75 percent deaf I was made fun of. I was very near sighted too. I thought the big E on the eye chart was a piano when I got my first pair of glasses in 7th grade. I retreated into reading. I had just 2 or 3 friends.

When I turned 27 I got my hearing tested. I found out My right ear was totally nerve deaf. MY left ear half deaf. A hearing was amazing. I am no longer on the outside looking in.

[Philosoraptor]

46. Disabled kids are targets

I was one too, I had polio and wore a brace that went all the way up my leg, any weakness makes you a target.

[JesterCS]

41. I feel the same way

I was always the outcast/loner. Everyone at my school had rich parents, and mine were not. I was heavy, and a computer nerd. I was constantly picked on. I had similar thoughts. But it was just that, thoughts. Like you, I feel damn lucky that I never snapped.

[FarCenter]

43. It starts with lack of discipline in elementary school

Anything other than polite, cooperative behavior should not be tolerated by the teachers.

[Selatius]

48. You're not alone. I suffered severe depression and suicidal tendencies in those years.

The home situation was terrible. There were always fights at the house. My sis and I were kept on lock-down, essentially. We weren't allowed to dances or school functions, no extra-curricular activities after school. It was school and then straight back to the home. We weren't even allowed to go trick-or-treating on Halloween. It was like this throughout all of high school and junior high and even elementary for me.

This situation made it hard to make or have many friends at all. The worse the fighting became at the home, the more withdrawn I became and the harsher the lock-down became. I was that kid that sat alone on the bench in the corner of the school yard. It was a hard mile to walk, but somehow, I'm still here.

I came close to snapping. I developed a lot of deep-seated rage at my situation and thought about suicide a lot and ultimately ended up with two failed attempts.

I can't say I could tell you what the school shooters at Columbine were thinking, but I bet they carried the same rage in their heart that I carried. The only difference was that I was far more likely to turn the rage on myself than turn it against the world like those two did. It would've just been my body to bury, not dozens of others.

I made it, though. I've seen a lot in this life, with not a small amount of major problems and disasters along the way. I still can't tell you what it all means though, but I made it through alive. I guess that's a small miracle in itself.

[tabbycat31]

49. I was too

I was less than a year out of HS when Columbine happened, and I could tell you exactly why those kids shot up.

I went to a small (96 kids in my graduating class) HS where 75% of us were there since kindergarten. I peed on the floor in 1st grade (the teacher would not let me go to the bathroom when I asked) and people were still talking about that in high school. The extracirriculars at my school were not anything that I was interested in. The school was VERY one size fits all and if you did not fit into a certain mold then you were miserable. It did not have to be that way, but that's small schools for you. I would have been much happier at a larger, regional high school (I grew up in the NYC suburbs so it was possible to consolidate school districts covering 2 square miles).

I was bullied to the point where I was afraid to go to school. If you watch the movie Mean Girls, there is a scene where she's hiding in the bathroom while eating her lunch, and that brought back memories for me. Instead of doing something about a bullying problem, the school took the side of the bullies (mostly popular kids and athletes) 99% of the time, and I was the one who got in trouble. If I said anything, it was used against me (perhaps they should read Miranda rights to every student there).

College was not any different for me. My mom would not let me apply to any larger (over 2000) schools and that was something that I really needed. I think I was about 30 before I convinced her that I am not her clone and what is best for her is not necessarily best for me.

[bixente]

51. First of all, thank you for sharing this with us

It was always hard for me to make friends at school. The kids I did happen to latch on to felt like outsiders like myself, sort of the types to be perceived by the masses to be a dweeb and not part of the 'cool crowd'. Well, it was especially hard at my first school... then we shifted houses and I enrolled in a different school and it was a bit better for me there, I actually made a few friends. My attendance record was often poor, though - I'd often feign an imaginary illness just to skip a day, simply as I dreaded the mere prospect of going to school.

Then I went to high school. It did go badly but it was all my fault and I'm so ashamed for how weak I was back then. The annoying thing about this high school, it was the closest within our vicinity, and that was why I was enrolled there, but my friends from the last school - they'd all enrolled in a different school, so again I had to try and make a new set of friends. No luck. My feeling is... I had major problems adapting to high school and all the changes the school presented to me day to day. It felt so arduous just going lesson to lesson day by day. Eventually I stopped attending... and I never went back. Then I studied at home. I regret it badly. I feel like my life has been on a spiral ever since. I was diagnosed with agoraphobia, to this day I have anxiety issues, anxiety going out, anxiety being around people, it seems impossible forming connections with people, and even when I do interact and talk to people, I'm so inept and can gain no benefit or enjoyment from it, I'd prefer to spend my time alone to read or write.

[Kablooie]

52. I was too.

But, luckily in my Junior year I got into acting and found the drama group was filled with creative wierdos and I fit right in.
It was amazing to be part of a clique. Something I never imagined.

I wish more of these strange kids could find like souls and learn that they aren't alone. It makes a difference.

[JanMichael]

55. I was in that hellish low/middle caste/class

Moved a lot, too much, to ever really fit in. Was sort of intelligent but not a genious and the moving from school to school (5 elementary, 2 JC, and 3 HS) didn't help matters.

However I was what could be considered a minor athletic person with minor artistic skills who could shift from baseball to wrestling to soccer to band...JV all the way.

Hated some bullies. Beat one in a one on one but the reality is that this bully was a loser shit to begin with so no benefit rubbing his face in snow.

I understand the fantasy of just leveling the monsters that berated and bellitled us. Never did it myself less a couple of fights but I get it. Wanted to end stuff myself but fortunately I never really snapped.

My life now is great so I guess I am very very lucky. Good job great spouse (a better and smarter person than I) great pets.

Weird how split second thoughts can impact so many things downstream.

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. Having a really mean streak, a family rife with professional killers to teach me, and connected

to a really long fuse, I wasn't as bad off as you. Typically at every new school, I would only have to release the beast once to put everyone on notice not to fuck with me.

The only reason I relate this history is that once that scenario had played out, I invariably gathered a following of other kids like you that formed an alliance of mutual protection and soon thereafter were left in peace. We were always relegated to the role of freaks and geek losers, but they left us alone. I hated and resented every minute I had to waste in that cesspool commonly known as high school and dropped out the day the state said it was legal to get my GED.

Was there anything like that for you? Were you in a city school or out in the suburbs? And finally, when were you in school going through this torture?

[erinlough]

60. I was a strange high schooler.

I was no good at joining social groups like the "popular kids" or any other strata. I loved music and performing and pretty much marched to the beat of a different drummer. I did have a gift for talking and a quick wit, so when I observed bullies I cut them to ribbons with my words and wit.

I went to the aid of many special education kids in high school so it was no surprise that I decided to be a special education teacher. I taught for 37 years always in special education. When my students got bullied I would take the bully aside and tell them that I could be a much better bully then they were being and if they would like to see that they could let me see them bully my kids one more time. Then I would invite them to my class to see how we worked. They always begged to come back. I would have been your friend in high school.

[Aristus]

61. I was a geek and a misfit.

But I was lucky to have friends. I was in both band and drama, (geek havens, both of them) and they both gave me outlets for my resentments. In drama, I could pretend to be someone else, and earn applause for doing so. And our band was not simply a high school noise maker. We were a serious outfit, with a teacher/conductor who worked us very hard, expected much from us, and gave us 100% of himself in return. The discipline required to make it in our band kept me from snapping. Although I read the school massacre novel "Rage" by Stephen King, under his pseudonym Richard Bachman, with a certain ghoulish glee, I never descended to that level. Black clothes and moping, dark poems were as far as it went.

I grew up. Married the prom queen. Started a fulfilling career, and am good friends with a number of the 'popular' kids from high school. Life is good...

[white_wolf]

64. I was one of those kids and it sucks. nt

[The Midway Rebel]

65. I was not a loner and was both a bully and bullied.

There was a pecking order we followed. Class of 1980 in the affluent burbs should not have been stressful but it was. As 13 year old I had violent daydream revenge fantasies against my perceived enemies and I had easy access to an AR15, 30 round clips and lots of ammo. Looking back, I do not know what the fuck my problem was and thoughts of what could have been make me ill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I wasn't weird or a loner but I didn't fit in and I was bullied.

I had very few friends in high school. That's odd because I had LOTS of friends in elementary school and have always had lots of friends since I finished high school. I'm a people person. But in high school, I was a loner.

I went to high school with rich kids and I wasn't rich. I was the poor kid on scholarship at an exclusive private school, like the school Romney went to. And it was a miserable social experience for 4 years.

Freshman year I got sick. Migraines. My parents took me to doctor after doctor and the headaches wouldn't go away. I had EEGs and all kinds of other medical tests. Finally a doctor told my parents I was depressed and they took me to a counselor, I worked with her for about 3 months and my headaches stopped. No meds, they didn't do that in the 60s. We just talked and the counselor helped me realize I was unhappy at school. I know that sounds odd now but at the time all I knew was my head hurt every day. I wasn't old enough to understand why.

Then my parents took me to see the school headmistress. They told me to tell her what I had told the counselor about the girls in my class and how they treated me. It was bullying but they didn't call it that back then. So I talked to the headmistress and to this day I can remember the way she talked to me and the compassion in her voice and the look on her face. First she apologized. She told me she understood, that the girls in my class were mean and she didn't know how to fix that but she wanted me to be happy at school. Then she told my parents to leave and she talked to me alone. She took out her appointment book and marked an hour a week for me. I was to report to her office at that time every week and we would just talk about whatever I wanted to talk about.

So for the rest of that year I met with her every week and then once a month after that until I graduated. And yes, we became very close. I loved that woman. I realize now, as an adult, that she literally saved me and helped me develop survival skills that I still have today. I just don't let people bother me. I have a pretty tough outer shell. I'm passionate and will defend what I believe to a ridiculous level, way beyond when most people give up. But I don't let what other people say, or how they treat me, change who I am or what I do.

What really got me through the whole miserable 4 years though was the education I got at that school. Outstanding isn't a strong enough word. I knew then that I wanted to be a teacher so I focused on learning. I was so lucky. Classes were small and the teachers were excellent. And talk about rigor! I aced my SATs and when I went to college, I was shocked by how easy it was compared to high school.

To this day, I am very grateful for being so well educated at that school. I consider it a blessing and I am thankful that my parents insisted I was staying at that school and not transferring to the public school where most of my friends from elementary school were. I doubt I would have become a teacher if I had done that.

I never miss a reunion and I love the reaction I get from my classmates when I tell them what I am doing. What's interesting is that most people, when I tell them I am a teacher in an urban school, say things like "How wonderful" or "Good for you!"

** Yes, teachers are vilified in the media but in person, I have almost always heard nothing but gratitude. Go figure.**

Anyhow, the girls I went to high school with ask me "Are you STILL teaching?" or "Are you STILL teaching at THAT school?" or "Are ALL of your students black?" At the last reunion, one of them said "I just heard about a kid who shot his teacher and I thought of YOU!" - Like I was some kind of martyr.

And I just laugh. I wouldn't trade places with any of them for anything.

[sibelian]

67. My mind went off by itself.

When you're alone sometimes your thoughts take you places you probably shouldn't go. It took me decades to get back.

[hfojvt]

68. I was, but I wasn't

We geeks sorta had our own circle of friends with band, debate, advanced chemistry, etc. So there was some fellowship there.

I never minded not having any close friends, because I had a little brother. That was all the friend I needed.

I had books too.

I was never bullied severely. Nobody was, that I knew of. At least not physically. Okay, I guess I can think of a few people. Kurt and Dan and Bonita come to mind. So why not me?

I am not sure, but I cannot imagine just taking it either. Not sure what I could have done, I was quite puny and weak, but my eyes probably said "do not try it" because I probably would have brought a weapon for my revenge. Not a gun, but maybe a hammer or a screwdriver or a pocket knife. If somebody had bloodied my nose, they would have paid for it - somehow.

But I never rode a bus either, which is probably a place of massive vulnerability with the only adult present having to watch the road.

[allrevvedup]

71. Thanks for sharing that Philosoraptor

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:31 AM - Edit history (1)

and so far I've been loving your posts!

Now about Lanza: the inconsistencies in the story bother me, so here's what I originally posted, which I realize is not particularly germane to what you're sharing with us, but I hope you will find it interesting anyway:
-------------
Hugs, but note that Lanza was two years out of high school and planning (but not yet attending) college, by one account at least. Of course, these accounts are wildly contradictory, but his age (20) and status (not enrolled) seem pretty consistent, so I think we can safely rule out his snapping from any kind of high school or college pressure.

In fact it's hard to see how this young person was deeply troubled or troubled at all: he had two loving parents, including a full-time devoted mom and a generous dad with deep pockets, a big house to play in nestled in a beautiful suburb, and few if any reported responsibilities. What's not to like? He'd have to be really, really messed up -- completely out of touch with reality -- to turn that idyllic existence into the kind of trauma that could cause what happened last Friday. It just doesn't add up.

[LWolf]

72. Slightly.

I never thought about hurting people. I did hate high school, and count the years, months, and days until it was over.

I didn't hate my teachers. With one exception, they were all competent and caring. It was the other students that made school miserable.

[Still Blue in PDX]

73. Yes.

I still am, in fact.

It doesn't take much to take me back again. I have a co-worker who told me that she always got A's in her classes because she was adept at figuring out exactly what the teacher wanted. She and I do the same job, and although I've done it twice as long and we are equally competent, she makes sure she is noticed, so she is still using that skill. I could never pull that off because I am still far too shy. I love her dearly, but seeing her in action sometimes fills me with rage. Her most recent move is a literal move closer to our supervisor's office to ensure that she is the first one to be consulted when a question comes up.

I will never be one of the cool kids. Since I've been out of school since 1972--had enough credits, thank Gods, to graduate early--you'd think I'd have come to grips with it by now, but it hasn't left. I made a couple of suicidal gestures when I was in my early teens, and the only thing that has stopped me recently is knowing how miserable I've been since my parents died and I don't want to do that to my kids. The horrible shootings in the past weeks and some facebook posts that made me realize that I have family members who are so different from me have brought up emotions that I can't handle. I've been off work a few days and am dreading going back today.

I wasn't bullied per se, just had a couple of mean girls make comments like they do, and I was totally crushed. If I had actually been bullied rather than just invisible I honestly don't know what would have happened. No access to guns, so I would have probably just tried harder to take myself out.

[RobinA]

75. I Think This Post

and following discussion addresses one of the elephants in the room whenever these school shootings are discussed. Amid all the handwringing and the "why here" discussions, there are lots of people who know exactly why these kids shoot up schools. Oh, maybe not the details about what particular thing set this particular shooter in motion, but how many people who went to school post WWII didn't hear about Columbine and have some sort of recognition response - "Yep, I get it."

I'm a female, wasn't bullied but was just kind of invisible, I wouldn't know how to shoot a billboard with gun from 10 feet away, can't kill stinkbugs, and never really dreamed of shooting up or blowing up the school (went to school before this lovely trend got started). But I can't say I have no idea where these school shooters are coming from. The malls and the movie theaters I don't get, but schools? They just aren't good places for a lot of kids, and they are pure hell for a not insignificant number of those among us. As some psychologist was quoted in a slightly different context in (I think) that NYT article about the antisocial kids, the question is not why a kid shoots up a school, the question is why don't more kids shoot up the school.

[JohnnyLib2]

77. This old therapist greatly appreciates this post.

I'm pretty sure, from direct exposure, that you are speaking for way too many kids in high school right now.

Sometimes, one friendly or supportive contact can start to make a difference, be it one kid, one teacher, one co-worker at McDonalds, one neighbor or boss or ......anyone.

Another tough truth is that once teens like this leave school, isolation can escalate quickly.

Thanks again.

[WilliamPitt]

79. From a few years ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7669873

The discussion in that thread was remarkably revealing.

You are far, far from alone.

[Odin2005]

80. I was one of "those" kids.

I wasn't diagnosed with Asperger's until I was 15. Before then I was just the weird nerd. I'm an extrovert and it's not that I didn't want to socialize and be with others, it is just that had very poor social instincts and also my very high intelligence made it difficult to relate to most of my peers, My interests were just too different. My Asperger's makes me very gullible, and that make me a very easy target

[WilliamPitt]

84. This

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022039612

[vankuria]

86. Thanks for sharing your story

I was one of those kids that got picked on alot. I was small for my age, skinny, had acne and painfully shy. I don't have any fond memories of my school years and like you, felt a victim. I can remember staying in my room alot, crying and feeling very sorry for myself. I didn't fantasize about killing anyone, just dreamt alot about what it would be like to be someone else. One girl in particular I was so jealous of, she was a pretty blond cheerleader, very popular and had a boyfriend on the football team. About 5 yrs. after I graduated college I read her obituary in the newspaper that she had died of cancer. That was a wake up moment for me, to never be envious of anyone, you have no clue what their life is and you shouldn't compare yourself to anyone if you ever want to be happy.

And by the way, by the time I got to college things started to turn around for me, my body was catching up, acne healed and I started coming out of my shell.

I guess being bullied, teased and having a rough go early on made me the person I am as an adult. I'm a pretty sensitive person and very aware of the feelings of others and go out of my way to help others. I found my true calling as a social worker and dedicated my life to helping others.

I hope you've moved past your school years and have found happiness in your life. You sound like a very senisitve person and should be applauded for getting through those tough years without the benefit of meds, counseling, etc.

[Michigan Alum]

87. My twin brother got picked on but I was actually a girl who kicked the bullies asses. You mess with

my brother and I turn into the hulk. was taller than most of the boys until high school and I had some anger issues since I was basically beaten by my mother. One bully who shoved my brother and caused him to go to the hospital for stitches in his head hid out from me for several months because he knew I was looking for him. It's especially embarrassing for a boy bully to get his ass kicked by a girl. Luckily, I took out my anger out on people who I saw picking on others instead of picking on just anyone.