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JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:04 AM Dec 2011

Here is the list of Senators who voted against the Defense Authorization

and who are the only ones who apparently still believe in the Bill of Rights. It's a short, bi-partisan list:

Sen. Thomas Coburn (R, OK)
Sen. Thomas Harkin (D, IA)
Sen. Mike Lee (R, UT)
Sen. Jeff Merkley (D, OR)
Sen. Rand Paul (R, KY)
Sen. Bernard Sanders (I, VT)
Sen. Ron Wyden (D, OR)


http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/13832537748/senators-who-voted-against-the-national-defense

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Here is the list of Senators who voted against the Defense Authorization (Original Post) JCMach1 Dec 2011 OP
nice to see these people stand up against bush/cheney...oh, wait a minute... nt msongs Dec 2011 #1
that IS quite FirstLight Dec 2011 #2
Exactly... a very very short list. There are a lot of Progressives on my list over this... JCMach1 Dec 2011 #3
Am I wrong in thinking the other 93 need to be voted out...? JCMach1 Dec 2011 #4
Rand Paul on the same list as Bernie Sanders?! Rhiannon12866 Dec 2011 #5
It is a litmus test to see who clearly believes the Bill of Rights should not be eroded... JCMach1 Dec 2011 #6
I was surprised not to see my senators there... Rhiannon12866 Dec 2011 #23
I am really pleased with Jeff Merkeley kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #7
As I said, I think we should start a new Senate based on those 7... JCMach1 Dec 2011 #8
Still not sure I could support Republicans like Rand Paul though... cascadiance Dec 2011 #21
I'm also proud that I donated to his campaign in 2008 too... cascadiance Dec 2011 #20
The thing is the bill has language excluding legal aliens and US citizens. Selatius Dec 2011 #9
but not detention of US Citizens... JCMach1 Dec 2011 #11
I believe that's been a problem since as far back as the USA Patriot Act. Selatius Dec 2011 #12
Also a huge problem... JCMach1 Dec 2011 #13
"First they came for..." hobbit709 Dec 2011 #14
That's one of my darkest fears, actually. Selatius Dec 2011 #15
Exactly, who gets to say who the 'terrorist' is...? JCMach1 Dec 2011 #16
Unhappy with Gillibrand and Schumer's yea votes. closeupready Dec 2011 #10
wow irisblue Dec 2011 #17
Even the R's need to learn to defend Civil Liberties... send to all JCMach1 Dec 2011 #18
I sent an email to my good for nothing senator and below is what he replied newfie11 Dec 2011 #19
Republicans can always find democrats to vote with them Hutzpa Dec 2011 #22

FirstLight

(13,366 posts)
2. that IS quite
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:12 AM
Dec 2011

a FUCKING SHORT list... seriously?! I am not feelin' warm fuzzies about my country right now

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
3. Exactly... a very very short list. There are a lot of Progressives on my list over this...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:14 AM
Dec 2011

The tea partiers were already on the list anyway. Didn't take them long to sell-out their country...

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
6. It is a litmus test to see who clearly believes the Bill of Rights should not be eroded...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:24 AM
Dec 2011

These people passed that test.

As for the rest, they receive an epic fail for forgetting what this country is based on...

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
7. I am really pleased with Jeff Merkeley
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:32 AM
Dec 2011

I am proud of the fact that I donated to him in 2008. He's proved to be the same good guy that he ran as.

But what the fuck is he doing in a party surrounded by so many worthless assholes?

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
8. As I said, I think we should start a new Senate based on those 7...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 04:40 AM
Dec 2011

Everyone else should be replaced...

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
21. Still not sure I could support Republicans like Rand Paul though...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 12:44 PM
Dec 2011

He's got a lot of other areas where he leaves a lot to be desired.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
20. I'm also proud that I donated to his campaign in 2008 too...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 12:42 PM
Dec 2011

... even though I wasn't able to vote for him then since I moved to Oregon from California a week or so after the election. Alas, my vote still didn't stop prop 8 there, but at least the new senator that Oregon has doesn't believe that Sarah Palin used to be my governor in California like the former idiot that was a senator here in Oregon postulated. Glad to see that Wyden also had some sense too. Makes me now proud to be an Oregon resident!

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
9. The thing is the bill has language excluding legal aliens and US citizens.
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:14 AM
Dec 2011

I think the main thing to take away from such a bill is if you are not in any of those two protected groups and are on US soil and are arrested on suspicion of terrorism or terrorism related activities, you are not afforded any protection granted to people under the Bill of Rights.

If you object to that exclusion, then necessarily you would want to vote against such a bill. If you vehemently object to such an exclusion, then you may even consider the possibility of lodging a filibuster against such a bill.

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
11. but not detention of US Citizens...
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:31 AM
Dec 2011

...The legislation would deny suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens seized within the nation's borders, the right to trial and subject them to indefinite detention. The lawmakers made no changes to that language... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/national-defense-authorization-act-ndaa-obama-detainee-policy_n_1145407.html


...“The latest version of the defense authorization bill does nothing to address the bill’s core problems — legislated indefinite detention without charge and the militarization of law enforcement,” Andrea Prasow of Human Rights Watch said in a statement... http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/199207-white-house-quiet-on-threat-to-veto-defense-authorization-terror-detainees

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
12. I believe that's been a problem since as far back as the USA Patriot Act.
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:33 AM
Dec 2011

Sadly, that law is still kicking.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
15. That's one of my darkest fears, actually.
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:39 AM
Dec 2011

Nobody will care for them, because they're technically illegal aliens. Once the protocol is well-established to deal with them, somebody with ill intent could easily turn that machinery on Americans one day down the road, under the guise of some new national emergency.

JCMach1

(27,581 posts)
16. Exactly, who gets to say who the 'terrorist' is...?
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:40 AM
Dec 2011

I am sure there are some RWers who think #OWS are terrorists...

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
10. Unhappy with Gillibrand and Schumer's yea votes.
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:28 AM
Dec 2011

I'm going to let them know via letter, I think, so I can put my thoughts together.

newfie11

(8,159 posts)
19. I sent an email to my good for nothing senator and below is what he replied
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 07:06 AM
Dec 2011

I am confused. What say all of you? I posted this earlier and some felt better about the bill.



Dear Sherrie:



Thank you for contacting me regarding detainee provisions within the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2012, S. 1867, which passed the Senate by a vote of 93-7 on December 1, 2011. I believe there is a great deal of misconception surrounding these detainee provisions, and I would like to take this opportunity to clear up these misunderstandings.



Sections 1031 and 1032 of S. 1867 do not create new laws regarding the holding of an American citizen without trial. In fact, to reinforce this point, the Senate passed Senate Amendment 1456, offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein, by a vote of 99-1. This amendment codifies that nothing in Section 1031 regarding the detainee issue affects existing law or authorities relating to citizens or lawful aliens of the United States or any other person who is captured or arrested in the U.S. I voted in favor of amendment 1456.



The authority to hold U.S. citizens engaging in acts of war against the U.S. in military custody has existed for many years. Consequently, Section 1031 simply codifies existing law under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), 50 U.S.C. w 1541, and the 2004 Supreme Court case Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, which states that "[t]here is no bar to this Nation's holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant." Section 1031 affirms, it does not create, the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the AUMF against any person who participated in the September 11, 2001, attacks or who is a part of al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces and who is engaged in hostilities against the United States. If an American citizen is part of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and engages in hostilities against the U.S., then that citizen, as determined by the Supreme Court and the Administration, and now codified in S. 1867, can be held without trial until the end of hostilities, similar to U.S. citizens who assisted the Nazis during World War II.



You may be interested to learn that S. 1867 actually creates new safeguards for holding individuals engaging in acts of war against the U.S. It requires that once the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) detains a citizen who has joined al-Qaeda or the Taliban, DOD must provide that person with an attorney and bring the accused before a federal judge to make the argument that the individual is an enemy combatant. Additionally, an annual review of the accused status as an enemy combatant is required.



It also should be noted that there is nothing in the bill which undercuts the right of habeas corpus. Detainees held by the United States may seek federal court review of the legality of their detention in habeas corpus proceedings. In such proceedings, the government bears the burden of proving the legality of the detention by a preponderance of the evidence. I believe these safeguards will protect citizens and non-citizens alike from being wrongfully held.



Finally, Section 1032 of this bill provides for mandatory military custody for all non-citizens captured, who are members of al-Qaeda and are carrying out or planning to carry out an attack against the United States. We are at war with al-Qaeda, and I believe mandatory military custody is in our best national security interest in the fight against terror. This provision does not apply to American citizens, and there is a national security waiver the Administration may use in the event our national security is better protected by holding an individual in civilian custody.



Thank you again for contacting me. It is an honor to represent you and all Nebraskans in the Senate, and I encourage you to continue sharing your thoughts and ideas.


Sincerely,

Ben Nelson
U.S. Senator

Hutzpa

(11,461 posts)
22. Republicans can always find democrats to vote with them
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 12:44 PM
Dec 2011

but democrats can never seem to find republicans to vote with them.

My question is, who controls the power?

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