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This is the name of a featured cable show on "The National Geographic Channel". It features people learning how to live when society itself collapses. It implies that people should prepare to defend themselves against an imaginary end of days apocolypse where there is no law and order. It assumes a scenario of defending your stored food and precious metals with your armed stash of weapons and ammunition. It also assumes that anyone coming near your stash is fair game, that people are a threat.
What is this kind of insanity? Who would even want to live in such a dire environment? Isn't this the kind of bizarre thought process that encourages individualism in a primitive, savage world that encourages people to purchase the weapons that are then available to a mal-adjusted problem child?
If we are going to presume that we should survive alone against the rest of society, aren't we conditioning ourselves to kill one another without conscience. Isn't that what we see happening now, maybe as a spinoff of that kind of inhumanity towards one another?
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RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)At least at the end of each show they admit the scenarios they are rating are extremely unlikely.
physioex
(6,890 posts)And many have other co-morbidities which are more of an eminent threat like Type II diabetes. But to their credit, they did profile a couple of "preppers" without guns taking the non-violent approach.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)And get chastised by the "experts" for not having enough protection.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)a response in my head regarding the fact that at the end of each show the narrator gives an explanation of the unlikelihood of that show's disaster scenario playing out and it has never come down on the the side of the prepper's beliefs.
Indeed, the end narration serves to highlight the insanity of the preppers that were just featured.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)That it would be more educational to show how a government of people might maintain some sustenance as communities surviving some national trauma. i.e. How we might cope as communities with weeks without power or electricity. How we might maintain order and civility during a cataclysmic event.
The truth is that many, if not most of us, would prefer death to seeing society breakdown to the point of killing one another. I'm sure I would prefer death. These survivalists seem to think it would be an adventure. LOL. Maybe if you're 12 or 13 it might be fun for a few days.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)all my family agree. 
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Prepping is a continuum...the Doomsday freaks are on one end. Those who follow the FEMA suggestions for 3-5 days of food/water and a comm plan are at the other.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)it is life on the Kenai. We prep for that. if the world ends however, I am hoping not to be here grubbing through the dirt for radioactive potato stubs.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)BTW...have you ever seen that movie?
Most disturbing movie I've seen so far...and it's not gory or violent. It just has an air of hopelessness through out it.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Our power and communication grids are both at least somewhat vulnerable to an extreme solar flare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases even shocking telegraph operators. Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire. Some telegraph systems appeared to continue to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/tag/carrington-event/
Such an extreme event is considered to be relatively rare. The last gigantic solar storm, known as the Carrington Event, occurred more than 150 years ago and was the most powerful such event in recorded history.
That a rival to this event might have a greater than 10 percent chance of happening in the next 10 years was surprising to space physicist Pete Riley, senior scientist at Predictive Science in San Diego, California, who published the estimate in Space Weather on Feb. 23.
“Even if it’s off by a factor of two, that’s a much larger number than I thought,” he said.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/
The U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory's Cliver agrees: "They don't have a lot of these on the shelf," he said.
The eastern half of the U.S. is particularly vulnerable, because the power infrastructure is highly interconnected, so failures could easily cascade like chains of dominoes.
"Imagine large cities without power for a week, a month, or a year," Baker said. "The losses could be $1 to $2 trillion, and the effects could be felt for years."
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)As a society who is mostly dependant upon each other, with few exceptions. The chances of nuclear holocaust, rogue asteroids striking the earth, famines, and widespread viral outbreaks have always been possible as long as I have been alive. Nothing has changed. The only thing that's changed is the wave of sensationalism that has suddenly made it popular entertainment.
Two ideas:
1) What if the movements are the manifestation of some growing instinct that there is something imminently wrong with our current model? So what we are seeing is confused people trying to address some subconscious scratch at the back of their heads, and while misguided, their very presence is an indication of things being off course.
2) What if we are seeing is some type of romanticism born out of the alienation of capitalism and indebtedness. The only form of freedom people can comprehend is through breakdown, so they long and prepare for a day of freedom from mundanely being assimilated into the economical machine
I have some empathy for both feelings; the system is headed for breakdown and it may be the only shot at "freedom" (though, not a pretty one). I also recognize nothing is being done to address our system's flaws, so it doesn't surprise me to see fringe groups growing. It is unfortunate what they are producing.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)Society is more apprehensive because the last 3 decades the emphasis has been on a society where sharing is a weakness, that social safety nets need to be dissolved, where shareholder profits are more important than providing jobs for our citizens, and that all of this is just an inevitable circumstance that can't be avoided.
There were times when unions provided a collective protection. Notice how unions have become synonymous with all things evil in this country. Unions are disappearing altogether and there is no collective method of challenging those in power. The clarion call is going out: "You are all alone and at our mercy. We don't need you Americans. You are expendable."
So, I see why people are freaking out. But the answer isn't 'going it alone'. There is strength in numbers and unification. All for one, and one for all.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)According to studies based on a more conservative IPCC v4 report, the staples will not be able to grow in America by 2050. Another study points out that up to 3 billion will face famine by 2100 (and we could conceivably reach +4.8C by then according to the leaked IPCC report). Crops are already failing. Its a matter of time, and we have no feasible way to reduce atmospheric carbon to baseline while growing our economy.
The governments twiddle their thumbs. They grow more irrelevant each day. Politics is becoming meaningless, as it cannot provide solutions to our foremost crisis. Perhaps it could, but it refuses to help strengthen resilience in the face of impending disaster.
So its up to the people. In isolation, they turn to freak groups on the internet. They endorse all sorts of strange ideas, believing force is of utmost importance to survival.
We learn now that they raise children. What happens in 20 years when swaths of unguided preppers raise children? How much of this will we see?
The governments twiddle. They are irrelevant. Our machine is only producing ecosystem death or deranged lunatics trying to save themselves, who raise children in an existential crisis.
This is somewhat uncharted territory. What will the future bring, when more and more of these children grow into adulthood?
Our future doesn't look so rosy
physioex
(6,890 posts)And he was talking particularly on this topic. Perhaps we should work on public policy and get of fossil fuels as quickly as possible.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)We can't even get a handle on gun control. We wont do it. We won't start to do it. We won't even admit there is a problem with our lifestyle causing warming (remember the debates?). And when even talking about climate change, Obama assures us:
I think the American people right now have been so focused and will continue to be focused on our economy and jobs and growth that, you know, if the message is somehow we’re going to ignore jobs and growth simply to address climate change, I don’t think anybody’s going to go for that
A government preparing to get off fossil fuels (transitioning) is admitting to the failure of civilization, and civilization doesn't admit failure. Restructuring our economy is out of bounds. Off limits.
The "transition" won't be televised. It won't be directed by politicians. It won't be mainstream. It will be freaks raising children in alienation or groups like Transition Network (who actually does incredibly work).
The government could put a transition team in every town. They wont. They are ignoring it. By doing so, they are encouraging these radicals. The politics of the 20th century is churning out irrelevant politicians who will not and cannot honestly approach this issue.
I'd love to eat some crow.
physioex
(6,890 posts)He pointed out a country like Germany can get a significant amount of energy from solar so why can we?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)The more I read about climate change the more alarmed I am getting myself. I can easily see a breakdown in society. I saw some of what happens when the damage is overwhelming for authorities after Katrina in Biloxi. It really opened my eyes. I expect some problems down the road.
Robyn66
(1,675 posts)what's worse, it gives these people credibility and encourages others to join them.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)I don't know if this is a way to unscare people after an episode of madness. I don't blame NatGeo on running the show, but it does give some of these preppers some amount of credibility.
I think that at least some of the prepper madness is the outcome of the poor government response to Katrina. A lot of people figured out that they are on their own.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out! We'll finally rule the new world we're busy making here, to save America! Except their vision is depressingly feudal, not at all enlightened...
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Preparing to be on your own for a week is smart.
Preparing for Lord of the Flies is pure craziness.
love_katz
(2,579 posts)Natural disasters can happen. Some common sense preparation is a good idea.
However, in social disasters, the people who survive the best are people who have friends, neighbors, and family they can rely on for support.
The myth of the lone frontiersman is largely a myth. And, in any case, we don't live in the days of the frontier anymore.
I think it is better to build supportive social networks than it is to try to arm oneself to the teeth with the idea of standing off against all-comers. The human species has many challenges to face in the future. I think we will fare better by learning to stand together, instead of trying to be loners holding off the world.
Groups like City Repair, and people who are teaching Perma-culture...all the many groups who are teaching methods of peacefully working together in a collective fashion...that is the way to security, not shoot outs at the O.k. corral.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)I majored in soil science in part because I thought it would be a useful skill in any eventuality. 
kelly1mm
(4,733 posts)1.3 million viewers and 800k+ in the 25-54 demo for the season 2 premire. Nearly the same as the RMS on MSNBC on that date.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/11/14/season-2-premiere-of-doomsday-preppers-becomes-networks-highest-rated-season-premiere-and-tuesday-night-telecast/157690/
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/11/14/cable-news-ratings-for-tuesday-november-13-2012/157571/
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Last weeks opening had a very large man (whose number 1 concern should be the health of his heart) sweating bullets and shaking as he watched a show about nuclear holocaust from an underground bunker.
Its pure dark humor.
I get the biggest kick out of the fact that people are concerned about almost everything (solar flares, comets, viruses) except their health and climate change.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)people would need each other more than ever before. If there is no food available, then I'm quite sure that I will venture to the heart of the city hoping to find others who might have an idea.
But the last thing most of us will do is forcefully take what is yours. There has been starvation in many parts of the world previously. Many of us would just go lie down and suffer the hunger pains until eventual death. At best, I might try to find something to expediate death if there was no hope. I'd like to believe that most of us will remain civil and try to maintain civility among ourselves.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Most violence would probably be government directed (resource wars). Famine has been somewhat quiet in the past.
But clearly, not everyone see it that way.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Civilization is a paper thin veneer over millions of years of evolved instincts, humans will go feral just like any other domesticated animal, pigs are particularly bad that way and I suspect humans are even worse than pigs.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)How can you live each day if you believe that's true?
Yeah, the population has doubled since growing up in the 50s, but even half a plate of what we ate back then will be enough to easily survive your forecast.
No wonder people are getting so schizophrenic these days. If I surrendered to the doomsday prophecies being played out regularly on entertainment TV and joined up with other schizo-paranoids daily, I'd end up blowing my brains out.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)On the other hand I've been a voracious reader for going on sixty years now and I know a bit about a great many things and a lot about quite a few things.
I grew up in the fifties and sixties where we knew as a matter of course that civilization could end any moment, duck and cover drills at school every week kind of made that blatantly obvious. If I could handle the idea of personal annihilation and the destruction of civilization at nine years old then I suppose I can handle it at sixtysomething.
Personally I think our civilization has been remarkably fortunate for the last couple of hundred years, there's just so many possible natural disasters that can wreck us, our luck is only going to hold out so long, sooner or later the law of averages will catch up with us and we'll have a truly major natural disaster.
For instance the Canary Islands off the west coast of Africa is a potential source of a mega tsunami that would inundate much of the east coast of both north and south America, Florida would just be gone after such a tsunami, it could roll right over the entire peninsula.
Even the New Madrid fault in the Missouri area has the potential to royally screw up our civilization for a while, a really big quake there could cause heavy damage over multiple states that aren't really prepared for quakes.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)if then
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3963563.stm
The Madrid is a real threat, tho.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Evidently the original researchers are standing by their conclusions according to the article.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)they say there is no risk. maybe when Bob (the nickname of the new vent that will someday be a new island) grows big enough to collapse then it's a possibility. but since the Canaries tend to crumble bit by bit, I don't see it ever happening.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Florida isn't really all that bad a place.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Im not 100% sure this is the case. Though America 2012 isn't China in mid-20th Century.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)We have riots after the home team wins a football championship, or loses it for that matter.
Let the cable TV and the smartphones get cut off for a week and the grocery stores run out of food for that long and there will be major mayhem.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)By the time you realize you are hungry and there is no food, your body has already put you into energy conservation mode. You become tired more easily and your emotions are dulled. There is no energy to be "feral".
Food riots don't happen with starving people. Food riots happen with people who are getting just enough, but who are angry that there may not be enough in the future.
Otherwise food riots would be happening all over the world all the time.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Six months or even six weeks and you're probably correct, a week isn't long enough to get to the point you describe though.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)people would have to band together to create their best semblance of a society. It would actually become a socialistic endeavor, which would have a much more successful chance of surviving than the preppers type of plan.
theKed
(1,235 posts)prehistoric humans - as well as any other "pack" creature - form social groupings. One hunter might do very well, but most won't. By spreading the burden of food-collection, and distribution, everyone can do moderately well.
Alone the capacity for success is higher, while together the risk of failure is lower. And yeah, it does sound a whole lot like socialism - our natural state.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)everyone is to meet here to form our Co-operatist Survival Family Unit 
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)theKed
(1,235 posts)They know they should be outraged and afraid, and rightly so, but their decades - lifetimes - of indoctrination completely forbid them from outrage at the real dangers, so they misdirect it onto something, anything, as long as they can rationalise it into their worldview.
Logical
(22,457 posts)The end of them or me!
physioex
(6,890 posts)But you take the good with the bad. I really love all the science shows like The Universe where physicists talk about the creation of our universe and the possible multi-dimensional nature of existence. You take the good and ignore the bad....
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)I haven't looked in the magazine in a while, but I didn't notice much beyond geography and animals and humans.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)It's pretty easy to link the two when the channel is called "Nat Geo." That network runs the same type of sensationalist crap that Discovery and others run. Locked Up Abroad is on Nat Geo. It is a good show, but really has nothing to do with what most would consider National Geographic.
physioex
(6,890 posts)I think the magazine and the channel are run separately. I think the magazine sticks to the actual science while the channel is marketed for a mass audience.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Of course, one can go overboard, but as long as it's not hurting anyone, nothing wrong with it.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)I have about six days of canned air for my lung situation...
After that, I would need help.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I don't even have a TV anymore which has a good thing for us, but anyway, I think being prepared for natural disasters and national disruptions are a good idea for all of us. On the other hand, I have a brother who has lived on a piece of land in KY with his wife and 9 kids for many years. They have been preparing for... whatever biblical disaster that is their greatest fear. I can attest to the fact that the kind of people discussed here who stockpile guns, ammo, food for years really do exist. All of their children have gone to secret military training including all his young daughters. They think they must defend themselves from the US government who is going to force them into communism. Their older daughters were "matched" with other like thinking families in Canada and Alaska without their consent.. almost like being sold into marriage. None of them have had vaccinations or have gone to school; they're home schooled. Religion is absolute and the bible is the absolute authority.
This kind of life exists. I know it for a fact in my own family.
The really ironic thing? I am an atheist. I'm about as far left as a Democrat can get. I believe in America and the people's will. I have lived all over the world and am not naive to cultures and history. Still, the strangest things can happen to those who fall into a hole of ignorance and dwell in that hole for their lives living on misinformation, myth and fear.
It's so bizarre.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)It's alien to most of us. Even you as a relative find it somewhat cultist. I wouldn't even want to live in times they seem to actually live for.
Do you remember camping out as a child? All of us would eventually leave our tent long before dawn for the comfort of our own beds. Being a survivalist is about as alluring to me as being buried alive in a Poe horror classic.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)and you can read people's own accounts of what they are stockpiling and hoarding and how they plan to handle TEOTWAWKI ( The end of the world as we know it. )
There are liberals, conservatives and everyone in between "prepping."
But I have to laugh at some of them, being the hardscrabble survivor that I am. They really have NO clue. They long for simpler times, but most seem so urbanized and pampered, they think it's going to be some fancy camping trip with plenty of ammo to defend the "camp." They've got enough toilet paper to last 50 years, but most don't appear to have enough of a grasp of reality to last 50 days.
I've lived without electricity and phone and running water for a few months. It's not fun, but I never was compelled to steal anyone else's stuff, no matter how hungry or poor I was.
I'm not saying that there will never be economic breakdown, or that I don't try to keep a few weeks worth of rice and canned goods on hand. I have a garden and chickens and a horse I can ride to town.
What I am saying is that if you are so fear-based that you are putting all your $$$, time and energy into some future scenario, you are wasting a perfectly good life.
Tip: Many wait with bated breath for the 21st of December. I imagine a lot of prepper goods will be thrown up for cheap on the 22nd.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Like others here on DU, some even on this thread have owned up to it.
I live in the middle of raw desert. Since the earthquake is coming, I have water and food stored. I also have a means to convert my solar panels from grid tie to local usage. I have a comm plan to contact my family (I live alone). So yes I have made some plans. All of this is recommended by FEMA and the state disaster people. I know my neighbors (though they are not close) and there would be cooperation.
Prepper is a huge continuum. Some are hardcore TEOTAWAKI idiots that scare the hell out of me. Most are like Mormons doing the 1 year supply of food/provident living thing and are fairly innocuous. Some are like me, Nadin, and others DUers who look at week to a month. The differences are dramatic in cost and attitude.
I recent saw for the first time the NatGeo TV shows about Preppers. I hope most of it is faked like many reality TV shows. Some real freaks there.
Everyone knows some preppers along that sliding scale. Many do not talk about it. If they are minor ones, like me, you assume everyone has that level of stuff done. If they are some of the freaks they don't talk about in case the zombies hear about it
a la izquierda
(11,794 posts)My husband, dogs and I would do perfectly fine for awhile. We have some stockpiles, which we have to give away every time we move. But we are avid outdoors people. My reaction is at this point, the academic job market is so bad for me, maybe the Mayan SHOULD be right.
I think the extreme peppers have a disease called fear.
DanM
(341 posts). . . after all the power and the internets have gone dark. 
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)those that are worried that doomsday might happen and want to be prepared, and
those that seem to actually be looking forward to a doomsday.
The latter category is small but worrisome.
guardian
(2,282 posts)"It implies that people should prepare to defend themselves against an imaginary end of days apocolypse where there is no law and order. It assumes a scenario of defending your stored food and precious metals with your armed stash of weapons and ammunition. It also assumes that anyone coming near your stash is fair game, that people are a threat. "
Yeah that's just crazy. It could never happen.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/queens-residents-arm-looters-article-1.1196031
Queens residents arm themselves in the post-storm blackout from looters
Residents feel isolated and some use guns, baseball bats, booby traps — even a bow and arrow — to defend themselves.
Ever since Sandy strafed the Queens peninsula and tore up the boardwalk, it’s become an often lawless place where cops are even scarcer than electrical power and food. Locals say they are arming themselves with guns, baseball bats, booby traps — even a bow and arrow — to defend against looters.
And another local surfer said he has knives, a machete and a bow and arrow on the ready. Gunshots and slow-rolling cars have become a common fixture of the night since Hurricane Sandy.
