Proud gun owners.

[Control-Z]

Seems like every other post starts out with: "I'm a proud gun owner." I want to know what there is to be proud about? I've never understood this. I understand even less after yesterday's mass murder.

Would someone please tell me? What is it you gun owners are so damn proud of?

Damn it! I am so pissed off right now. Those babies were slaughtered. SLAUGHTERED! Their tiny bodies were riddled with bullets from an assault rifle. If I were a gun owner I would not be proud. Quite possibly ashamed. But definitely not proud.

[SajayHobbs]

1. Huh? They have nothing to be ashamed of

What are you talking about?

Owning a gun is legal and not immoral as far as I can see. What are you seeing?

They can be proud of having themeans to protect themselves and others as far as you know. Who the hell are you to judge any one else?

Work at repealing the 2nd Amendment if you are really wanting to do something.

You post if offensive!

[Control-Z]

4. Who the hell are you,

Mr. 17 posts? Who's paying you to come on our board and stink it up, you offensive troll?

[LiberalEsto]

77. Oddly enough, the poster claims to be female

Profile information

Gender: Female
Home country: India
Current location: United States

About SajayHobbs
Born in India. Mother Indian, father British.

[Control-Z]

84. MIRT does not discriminate.

SajayHobbs
Account status: Posting privileges revoked

[LiberalEsto]

85. Sweet!

I'm not being sarcastic.

[Travis_0004]

81. I agree with that poster.

And I have more than 17 post too.

[Control-Z]

83. Well, aren't you special?

But I wouldn't brag.

SajayHobbs
Account status: Posting privileges revoked

[_ed_]

6. Another NRA troll

Go away

[baldguy]

7. Owning a gun is a moral failing. It means you've surrendered to fear & stupidity.

Advocating laws which make the mass murder of innocent children commonplace should be an immense source of shame for you, and for every gun worshiper.

Having guns around doesn't protect you or your loved ones from gun violence - it fosters gun violence. Reasonable people will try to find solutions to the problem of America having too many guns. If you find the search for such solutions offensive - even AFTER yesterday's massacre - then maybe... I don't know, you don't have any children? Or you don't love them enough to try to really keep them safe? Or you think America has already going to hell, so you'll just help it along a little more? Whatever. Your post is certainly not the thoughts of real Democrat who loves America.

[Control-Z]

8. Thank you, baldguy.

"Advocating laws which make the mass murder of innocent children commonplace should be an immense source of shame for you, and for every gun worshiper. "

I'm afraid I'm far too angry to be articulate right now. Thank you for stating it so perfectly.

[SajayHobbs]

22. Your fear of guns is a moral failing

Repeal the 2nd amendment .....if you have the guts.

[baldguy]

26. I'd be all for that.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact - no matter how much the gunworshipers want it to be.

[ohiosmith]

30. This post was alerted on. The jury 5/1 to let it stand.

At Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:30 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Your fear of guns is a moral failing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1995033

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

No comments added by alerter

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:34 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If the alerter can't be bothered to comment,....I can't be bothered to hide the post!
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No comment, no hide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Can we just start banning these idiots already?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Ok, it's a challenge...but it's not a mortal insult or anything.

[baldguy]

65. And who's the delicate little flower who alerted it?

[we can do it]

61. FUCK GUNS FUCK THE NRA

[underseasurveyor]

71. Really?

Ooh and I love the, "if you have the guts" part. Mmm you must be the 'brave hero' type. I'm so scared yet impressed all at the same time

[Blue_In_AK]

34. Owning a gun is not a moral failing.

Many, many people own guns in Alaska and other rural states for hunting and protection from predators when in the wilds. I personally don't but I know many good people who do. A lot of people here hunt to eat. A lot of outdoors men and women don't want to be eaten by a grizzly bear.

I do have issues with assault weapons, however, and especially don't understand why people who live in cities feel like they need more than one weapon for "protection."

[Chorophyll]

42. Damn straight, baldguy.

Victims of raging paranoia, with, IMHO, blood on their hands. I'd be ashamed.

[hack89]

79. What if they don't have guns for self defense?

but simply enjoy competitive target shooting? And your guns are always locked in a safe except when at the range?

[obamanut2012]

93. Oh, it is not

That is just ridiculous.

[baldguy]

94. What are you doing to stop Sandy Hook from happening AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN?

You want to preserve your supposed "right" to own a gun? Deal with the responsibility to promote security that goes with it. Because whatever you've been doing, it's been woefully ineffective AND YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY!

If you're a gun owner who has opposed any kind of gun control, who shouts down any discussion restricting guns, who runs down gun control advocasy groups & campaigns against candidates who support gun control, then the blood of the victims of Sandy Hook - and all the other mass murders that have happened - is on your hands. Fuck You.

[neverforget]

10. You really think that post is offensive? You're view of what's offensive is warped by your

love of guns.

[neverforget]

31. impotent armchair warrior?

You love freedom so much that people who disagree with you are unworthy of those same freedoms?

[etherealtruth]

11. Ah another gungasming new poster

"The contrast here is not only between the civility of the children and the cruelty of the shooter, but between what was asked of them at this moment and how little the public and elected officials ask of themselves when it comes to doing s...omething about gun violence. ... How do we find ourselves asking kindergarteners to be more courageous in the face of a gunman than politicians are in the face of the gun lobby?"

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2012/12/the-newtown-shooting-kindergarteners-and-courage.html

[rhett o rick]

13. It is not necessary to repeal the 2nd Amendment. We just need a decent Supreme Court to

interpret it to not include gun ownership for individuals. Clarify what militia means. It would be simple except we have a whack-a-doodle right wing Supreme Court, the love of the right-wing gun owners. Fuck the NRA.

[Flatpicker]

41. This

Would probably be the best option.

Clarify what a militia means and have their access to their "militia equipment" monitored.
That way we know where things are and in what capacity they are being used.

[rhett o rick]

49. Milita is the National Guard, but without the ability of the President to control. nm

[Flatpicker]

51. What I'm thinking is a compromise like this.

By codifying the description of militia. Make sure Bubba the survivalist and his drinking buddies aren't the "Tavern 21 Militia".

Then monitor the militia armories to allow of firearm use only for organized militia based activities.
Include a provision that militia weapons can be used for activities by registered militia members only if in groups of 3 or more and create a sign in sign out procedure that has local National Guard oversite and monitoring.
Any serious infractions could be met with punishment of loss of the militia armory or disbandment of the militia in question.

This would at least create an environment that the group would police itself and create a better chance of someone who may be mentally unstable being caught by their militia members before they become a danger to society.

I don't see firearms going away as a realistic possibility in the near future, but want to mitigate the ability of a lone gunman situation.

[renie408]

19. Why? Why do these things pop up whenever anything happens??

We need somebody to play some serious Whack-A-Troll around here.

[RetroLounge]

24. Hello, MIRT, NRA troll in Aisle 3

RL

[Zoeisright]

27. Fuck off.

The blood of those children are on YOUR hands. Your little penis substitute makes you look weak, stupid, and afraid. Suck on that.

[cantbeserious]

32. Your Insensitivity And Arrogance Is Offensive - Go Be Proud Of Your Guns Somewhere Else

eom

[we can do it]

60. FUCK THE NRA and ITS SUPPORTERS

[fasttense]

72. Seems you are proud of your weapon fetish SajayHobbs.

I own hunting weapons. My father taught me to hunt at 12 (I was a very athletic girl). I joined the military and had to qualify on several different weapons. I have several rifles and a shotgun but rarely use them today. My daughter was never interested in hunting, so I never went hunting with her. But I went a couple of times with hubby and my son. I can't say I'm proud of the hunting weapons I own. I can't say owning them is any different than owning a car.

I agree, this "I'm a proud gun owner" is really a stupid statement. I'm a proud coffee mug owner, I'm a proud TV owner. Those statements make as much sense. I think far too many people have weapon fetishes as if they are some special, magical mystery item. I don't see anything moral or immoral about owning a weapon.

If on the other hand you spend all your time handling weapons, stroking them with love, scaring family and friends with them then your behavior is very, very crazy and could lead to immoral behavior. It's people who turn weapon ownership into a fetish that are really very sad and scary. Our nation seems to love those kinds of people - people with gun fetishes. Our nation has such a huge gun fetish that children and innocent people die every day because of it.

I think it's time to take the fetish out of the guns.

[upaloopa]

2. I have been wondering if the gunners don't have some type of organization which tells them every time

there is a shooting to fan out across the net and social networks and snuff out any talk of gun regulation because they know it's going to be the most widely discussed topic after the tragedy.

I say that because if find it hard to comprehend that anyone would promote guns the day of and the day after such a terrible event. And even harder to comprehend is the fact that over and over these things happen and there is never word of sorrow from the gunners, just a call for more guns and statements about their rights. I begin to think that they are scared shit-less of the monster they have created and are afraid that they won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle at some point soon.

With twenty little children murdered and all you can think about is your fucking gun rights? You must be missing some gene they rest of us have.

[spanone]

3. they have that organization, it's called the NRA

[Control-Z]

5. Exactly.

"With twenty little children murdered and all you can think about is your fucking gun rights? You must be missing some gene they rest of us have."

I am so disgusted. Promoting guns at a time like this.

[freshwest]

89. Good quote.

[Warren Stupidity]

52. NRA and lots of huge gunnut message boards.

[LiberalEsto]

75. And sends them their weekly Talking Points nt

[Autumn]

9. I am a very proud DeWalt

drill owner. We also own two guns, a 30-30 and a 22, never been proud of them but damn I love that drill. I'm going to get the reciprocating saw next.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. We have two from the time hubby was a cop

They are kept for home self defense...


There is no pride.

I am all for limiting magazine (clip) size, making guns in civilian hands that much less effective. And yes, it's not how they look. How they function. I am sorry, the semi automatic friend of the M-16, to the AK-47, is by all definitions a state of the art infantry weapon.

The precious flowers argue, but it cannot fire in full auto...oh my...no it can't. It fires in the preferred, more accurate, fire mode.

We need rational laws in place and Fawke the NRA and those proud gun owners who want zero change cause, they want to take my precious away.

It is time we grow up as a society.

Oh and yes, you could use a bolt action for hunting, or a semi that has a very low clip capacity...so how about that?

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. If it's true for one, then it's true for all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021994027#post7

[backwoodsbob]

14. so every gun owner should be ashamed?

are you ashamed every time a drunk driver kills someone?

[Control-Z]

17. Since I don't drink and drive,

no, I don't feel shame. If I did drink and drive I'm sure I would be ashamed, though. Every time a drunk driver killed someone I would be reminded of how stupid and dangerous it was of me to drive drunk and I would suffer enormous shame.

[backwoodsbob]

18. then we are even

I have never shot anyone...you don't drink and drive....grats

[Chorophyll]

44. A vehicle is not designed expressly for killing. What's your gun for? nt

[renie408]

50. Bingo.

A gun's ONLY utility is killing. It makes a really shitty can opener, bug zapper and there are much safer paperweights.

[Chorophyll]

64. The gun/vehicle b.s. is getting really old.

PLUS, you actually have to have a license and insurance to drive a car. A gun? My kid can order one off the internet.

[Control-Z]

68. Hardly. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

95. And operating a motor vehicle properly usually doesn't end in anyone being dead.

However, there is a reason the U.S. Army doesn't issue its soldiers a Toyota.

[renie408]

20. I think you are missing the point.

You know, there is some middle ground between feeling 'proud' and feeling 'ashamed'. You could always try not emotionally identifying with your gun, for instance. But since I imagine that most people own guns as extensions of their egos and to help them feel more in control, I guess that is probably not gonna happen.

[2ndAmForComputers]

21. One specific side of the political spectrum is notoriously bad at nuance.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. Actually both are and this has been a classic example of it from the left here on DU

[renie408]

45. LOL...

You think those of us who believe there should be increased gun control are not 'nuanced' because we don't ignore guns as a contributing factor to violent death in this country.

Now, see, I tend to think you allowing your desire to keep whatever weapon of mass destruction helps you feel better about yourself to interfere with your ability to comprehend facts like 'States with tighter gun control have lower homicide rates' and factor those facts into the formation of an intelligent and broad base solution to violence in America as lacking nuance.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

54. Perhaps you should ask certain posters why their transparency pages are now displayed

The heavy cancellation for lack of decorum, let alone lack of nuance has been not been on us moderates

I agree that the US has a violence problem and it desperately needs to be addressed. However the firearms some are ranting about have been available to the populace since WWI. Semi automatic pistols even earlier. The rise in violence came much later than that. Its not clear how 100 year old technology is causing violence in the last 10-20 years.

[ThatPoetGuy]

58. Almost busted a gut laughing...

You used to pretend to be progressive. Now you're pretending to be moderate.

The rise in gun violence corresponds, and was created by, the rise in gun culture. Like zombies, millions of people chanting COLD DEAD HANDS ... which is a statement that says, "if people try to take away my weapon, I will kill them. I will kill them, and keep killing them, until I am dead."

Millions of people announcing their willingness to kill other Americans, chanting it and shouting it, fantasizing about it. How could that be a problem?

[bongbong]

63. "Progressives" among us

> You used to pretend to be progressive. Now you're pretending to be moderate.

There are people sent in to move the gun-Overton Window to the right on Liberal chat boards. On some lesser-known gun-idolization sites they even brag about their success in fooling the "stupid libs".

[renie408]

73. You are still incorrect in on that thing about violence.

Since 1960, ALL violent crime has gone down as a percentage of population. I recognize that being proven wrong will not change your mind or stop you from saying that like it is true, but just thought you should know.

[LanternWaste]

90. More people pulling more triggers of more firearms aimed at more people.

"Its not clear how 100 year old technology is causing violence in the last 10-20 years. .."


More people pulling more triggers of more firearms aimed at more people.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

91. The crime stats do not support that statement

[2ndAmForComputers]

74. Sorry I spoke unflattering things about the right wing.

Actually no, I'm not sorry. I should have spoken worse, to be closer to reality.

It's a fact. Deal with it. No amount of "I know you are but what am I" type retorts will change that.

Practically every newsworthy event in America is proof that the right wing is orders of magnitude more toxic than the left wing. In this country, at least.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

76. My point was polemics and screeds from either side are not helpful

Some of the ones here are quite literally giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Calm and rational discourse seems to be elusive these days

[Paladin]

87. Thanks For The Concern, Mr "Moderate". (nt)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

88. Most welcome Mr Drive By

[UnrepentantLiberal]

80. Ha ha

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240188029

[Zoeisright]

28. False equivalency, stupid.

Since I never drink and drive, I have no reason to be ashamed. Gun nuts should be hiding under their beds from their shame. Because THEY did this.

[Control-Z]

69. +1000 n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

53. Just the ones promoting gun nuttery. They have the blood of 20 children on their hands.

[The Straight Story]

16. So who did this act? And are you a proud Obama/US supporter?

"A" gun owner (not even sure he owned them himself at this time) did this.

We kill kids all over the world - but you don't see the pictures of it or have people on the news/here at DU talking about it all that much.

If a drunk driver kills someone and someone else talks about their car are they a 'proud car owner'?

Through all of history we have been killing people, if you blame guns then please explain to me all the killings before that.

Working on the real problem seems to be hard work, so let's blame something we think we can easily control by giving access to only those few in power....

[Tobin S.]

25. What is the real problem in your view?

[The Straight Story]

29. People and our society, ask yourself this if you will

If you owned a gun/knife/bomb/etc - would you do this?

If not, then why did this person do so?

Many own cars, and do not run over people.

All I know have tubs but do not drown their kids as some have done.

We all have some power over others, but choose not to use that in a way that harms them.

The problem is not what we have, it is with the people doing it - and that is what we must fix.

[renie408]

36. Why can't we do both? Limit access to guns while attempting to reduce violence in our society?

You seem to have wedged this into your brain as an 'either/or' thing.

Which makes me suspect that you likes you some guns. And you don't want to hear anybody say anything like guns could be part of the problem.

So, why is it that states that have tighter gun control also have lower homicide rates?

[Tobin S.]

37. I sort of agree with you, but I don't know if the problem is truly repairable.

I think violence is a part of our evolutionary heritage. It's expressed to some degree in most of us, more so in men. As much as our modern culture tries to weed out the violent types, I think they will always be a problem.

[Stonepounder]

33. Personally, I detest guns.

I won't own one, and I won't allow them in my home.

My son is a hunter. He owns some guns and some hunting bows, which are kept in a gun safe. I won't say he is proud of them, he just owns them for when he hunts (and yes, he eats what he kills).

He does not own any automatic or semi-automatic weapons. To the best of my knowledge he doesn't own any hand guns. He wouldn't have any problem with stricter regulation of weapons, tighter registration, etc.

Do we need stricter gun laws? Absolutely. Is the NRA totally badshit crazy? Absolutely. Is the solution to ban all guns? I don't think so.

First, you would never get a majority to agree to it. Second, it would be unacceptable to a large majority of Americans to try and go that far. We need a serious discussion of guns and gun violence in this country. Something needs to be done. Lets try and figure out a reasonable solution.

[quakerboy]

35. It is a bit odd

After a big car accident kills people, noone chips in with "as a proud car owner". After a big apartment fire burns a few people to death, noone starts their posts "as a proud smoker of tobacco products"

[1gobluedem]

40. Keyword: accident

These mass shootings are ON PURPOSE.

Big difference.

[quakerboy]

56. Not so key

Dead people are dead people. If some guy spikes a bunch of aspirin pills with poison and kills people, I don't jump in claiming to be the proud owner of aspirin pills. Someone else commits arson and burns a bunch of people to death, I doubt anyone will rush to the internet claiming to be the proud owner of gasoline and matches.

Or, to be more immediately memorable, a man in china slashed 20 children with a knife, But I have as yet to see one post on DU or anywhere starting "as a proud knife owner".

All three of those things are far more useful on a daily basis than a gun. All three are things that one could be at least as justifiably proud of possessing. Yet no one comes to brag over them. I surmise it may be because they have no gnawing self doubt to assuage over their possession of, nor need to promote the ownership of these items. Or maybe its just that they feel no need to pile on and lord their superiority over people who are hurting or sickened by what happened.

Whatever it is, as a gun owner, it makes me sick to see people doing it. Guns are not magic totems. They do not make your penis work better, your life more worthwhile, heal the sick, or do much of anything else. They are a mechanical device. In the vast majority of cases, one made in a factory by some guy, just like the stick pen on your desk that you feel no need to be "proud of". You didn't invent them. You aren't the best at using them. You probably don't own the only one, the rare one, the best one. As many like to say, its a tool. Why boast over it in the midst of a group of hurting people, after a horrific tragedy?

[renie408]

38. Face it, people are PROUD to own guns.

Look, guns make people feel good about themselves. They feel bigger, stronger, BETTER with a gun in their hand. A gun makes them feel safer and more in control. I remember standing behind this guy at the grocery store who had this GIANT whopping gun hooked to his belt. I could tell he was glancing around to see if people were observing his GUN. He had his chest poked out and walked with a bit of a swagger.

All I could do was wonder if he knew something about our local grocery store that I didn't. Cause I had certainly never felt the need to pack heat while picking out tomatoes.

THAT is exactly the culture we have to start educating. People FEEL better with guns, but they are not ACTUALLY better. They are, in reality, LESS safe. But try telling them that. Holding a gun is a quick way to feel significant without having to get an education, get physically or mentally fit and without really having to DO anything. Holding a gun makes people feel powerful.

Until we can help people to become self-actuating, we are going to have a problem with 'proud gun owners'.

[laundry_queen]

46. +1 nt

[ohheckyeah]

70. I own a gun.

I am neither proud or ashamed of it. I own lots of things I'm neither proud or ashamed of.

I had a very good reason to get the gun and get trained how to use it. I could share the reason but then the responses would be "cool story" so why bother.

[Paladin]

92. Well Put.

An armed society is anything but a polite society. It is a society that is violent, paranoid, and prone to dip down to jungle status. Like the present-day U.S. Adding more guns to the situation is like dumping gasoline on a forest fire. We should have wised up about all this long ago.....

[David__77]

43. It's a way to say "not ashamed."

People who use guns recreationally might be proud of their pastime, much as someone who builds model trains.

[renie408]

48. Ok, I still think that is weird.

I think 'using guns recreationally' is weird. I also think people who like to blow things up are weird, too. I lack the 'bang' gene, I think. I also think it is weird to be 'proud' of a hobby. I ride and train horses professionally. I am not 'proud' of it. It is just something I do.

I guess I am proud of the skill I have developed because it speaks to my discipline and learning ability. But of the sport itself? Nope. Not 'proud'.

And my spellcheck thinks that 'recreationally' is not a word. Hmmmm....

[David__77]

55. I don't get it either.

I mentioned model trains because my grandfather did that and I could tell he had pride in that. My father was proud of his carpentry.

Some people grow up around guns and don't mainly mentally associate them with people dying. I have a coworker who is from rural Mississippi and he cannot imagine why anyone wouldn't enjoy going hunting. I would NEVER do that... He's proud of it though.

[Lightbulb_on]

47. I'm neutral...

Why would I be ashamed for something someone else did?

Why would I be proud? My weapons are tools for the protection of myself, my family, my property and potentially other members of society. That's it...

[PoliticAverse]

57. Proud-Synonyms: disdainful, haughty, highfalutin (also hifalutin), lofty, lordly, prideful, superior

(From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proud )

[we can do it]

59. They ar on the same level as the "white pride" skinheads.

all they have to be proud of is skin color or gun ownership....fucking pathetic.

[meanit]

62. The "proud" label is a play on words

It's meant to imply patriotism, vigilance and all the other "America values" that the right wing and the NRA try to lay claim to.

The saying "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" seems to apply in this case.

[Azathoth]

66. It's sort of like "gay pride" or "Mexican pride"

It's a natural response when there is a mob taunting you and condemning you and accusing you of all manner of evil because of something you have no reason to be ashamed of.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. Except for the part where Mexicans and gay people, and gay Mexicans are born that way.

No one was born a gun owner or advocate. See how that is not 'sort of like' being gay or Mexican or both?

[Azathoth]

86. So you should only be proud of something if you can't change it?

Hate to say it, but that's not a particularly stirring defense of Mexican or gay pride.

Being "born that way" has nothing to do with it. Pedophiles are "born that way" and they have nothing to be proud of. Someone who is born Christian and converts to Islam isn't "born that way" yet he or she has no reason to be ashamed of who they are.

Incidently, there are millions of Americans who are born into gun-owning families every year and who inherit those guns from their parents, but of course you won't concede any comparison.

[letemrot]

67. Maybe by saying "proud" they mean

Unapologetic. I own weapons. I have never gunned down an innocent; therefore I have NOTHING to apologize for. They could also be proud of having rare or prized pieces. You are free to believe what you want to; but the only person to blame for this incident is the individual that did the shooting.

[ibegurpard]

78. I have a gun

I'm not proud of it nor am I ashamed of it. I support reasonable gun-control measures. We have to have a license to drive a car for chrissake!

There are all kinds of factors that are contributing to these types of massacres but reasonable gun-control measures can help. The example of the guy in China who went on a violent spree with a knife at the same time as this tragedy shows that: 20 plus people injured but no one died.