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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:42 PM

When Your Favorite Childhood Films Are a Little More Homophobic Than You Remembered

Every time I hear about a Hollywood remake of one of my old favorite movies, I roll my eyes. Seriously, does the world really need a remake of The Karate Kid? The original movie is great. Sure, Daniel-san's pants are one of the reasons I shudder when people talk about '80s fashion being back, but it still holds up pretty well.

As a parent, one of the great joys is exposing my kids to all the stuff I liked when I was little. It's great to snuggle up on the couch with the kiddos and watch old episodes of Fraggle Rock or The Muppet Show on an ugly afternoon. And parents have a built-in excuse to buy things like the Blu-Ray of The Goonies or The NeverEnding Story.

But a few times that we've gone back to our old childhood favorites, we've had a harsh wake-up call. Take Scooby-Doo, for instance. Who didn't grow up watching the capers of Scooby and his Mystery Machine pals? We couldn't wait to introduce it to the kids. We set the DVR and a few days later gathered the kids for a viewing. They loved it, but as the episodes aired, my husband and I started exchanging poignant looks increasingly often. The show is horribly racist. After one particularly offensive episode, we had a talk with our kids about the Asian people we know in our lives, and how they talk and act nothing like the people we just saw on Scooby-Doo.

<snip>

We got another big shock when my best friend brought home a DVD of Adventures in Babysitting. I cannot tell you how many times I watched this movie on VHS as a kid, but, trust me, it was a lot. It's rated PG-13 (which could mean a lot of different things for an '80s movie), and even though I couldn't remember anything particularly scandalous in it, I looked at the "Parents Guide" on IMDB to see if there was anything I needed to censor in the kids' viewing. There was a scene or two I would be skipping, a few bad words, but it didn't look too bad.

<snip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/Amelia/when-your-favorite-childhood-films-are-a-little-more-homophobic-than-you-remembered_b_2277954.html

***********************************************

This happens to me A LOT when I watch 80s, and even some movies from the 90's. The amount of casual homophobia is often quite horrifying.

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Reply When Your Favorite Childhood Films Are a Little More Homophobic Than You Remembered (Original post)
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 OP
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #1
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #5
bedazzled Dec 2012 #63
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #91
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #6
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #36
Merlot Dec 2012 #47
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #61
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #48
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #60
TuxedoKat Dec 2012 #70
closeupready Dec 2012 #80
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #85
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #93
DirkGently Dec 2012 #2
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #13
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #17
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #42
gkhouston Dec 2012 #66
PCIntern Dec 2012 #14
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #20
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #22
Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #30
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #31
DirkGently Dec 2012 #32
raccoon Dec 2012 #68
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #3
joeybee12 Dec 2012 #4
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #7
Common Sense Party Dec 2012 #8
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #18
bedazzled Dec 2012 #64
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #82
Chellee Dec 2012 #39
TheMightyFavog Dec 2012 #43
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #9
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #19
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #76
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #81
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #88
Whovian Dec 2012 #10
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #11
slackmaster Dec 2012 #12
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #21
Tom Ripley Dec 2012 #33
deutsey Dec 2012 #37
slackmaster Dec 2012 #40
deutsey Dec 2012 #59
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #49
Squinch Dec 2012 #15
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #16
gollygee Dec 2012 #23
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #24
a la izquierda Dec 2012 #25
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #27
Tom Ripley Dec 2012 #34
deutsey Dec 2012 #38
KurtNYC Dec 2012 #26
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #29
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #28
DirkGently Dec 2012 #35
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #87
Skip Intro Dec 2012 #45
Johonny Dec 2012 #41
TheMightyFavog Dec 2012 #44
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #50
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #77
deutsey Dec 2012 #62
Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #79
deutsey Dec 2012 #83
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #86
deutsey Dec 2012 #90
WiffenPoof Dec 2012 #46
Freddie Dec 2012 #51
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #54
gkhouston Dec 2012 #67
progressoid Dec 2012 #72
dimbear Dec 2012 #52
Skidmore Dec 2012 #53
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #55
jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #58
FSogol Dec 2012 #74
Lex Dec 2012 #78
LittleBlue Dec 2012 #56
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #57
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #65
WI_DEM Dec 2012 #75
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #92
intaglio Dec 2012 #69
Romulox Dec 2012 #71
Mr Dixon Dec 2012 #73
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #84
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #89

Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:08 PM

1. Yeah. I showed my kids an old Sam Kinison stand up.

 

And I was appalled at how poorly it stood the test of time. It was viciously homophobic to the point where we just turned it off. I always considered him one of my favorites and one of the greats but I'm guessing my judgement was clouded by nostalgia because it wasn't the least bit funny in the context of today. Not having seen it in twenty years and my reaction to it showed me just have much the country has grown but more importantly how much I myself have grown.

My kids were like "Dad, what the fuck is this? This dude is a total asshole, put on some more Carlin."

And I could not help but concur.

Times change.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:28 PM

5. +1. True. Kinnison probably wouldn't last today.... or even break through. n/t

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:44 AM

63. he was funny in "back to school" though

underrated 80's movie with a great soundtrack.

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Response to bedazzled (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:40 PM

91. Anything with Terry Farrell is something good

I agree -- underrated movie.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:36 PM

6. Agreed -- not edgy, just a bigot

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:29 PM

36. It's hard to gauge just how drastically things have changed over the last couple of decades.

 

A very few of those changes have been for the better, but most of it has been for the worse.

I remember catching the acts at Mitzi Shore's place one Friday in the late 80s when Sam dropped in after the acts. He just went off for 90 minutes for more and put the whole house on the floor. It was one of those nights when you are sore the next day. He was responding to the times he lived in with the topics that were relevant at the time.

If he was alive today, his material would be different and he would still be a headliner, it's still about the talent. If you were to view George Carlin with a critical eye, you would find that there are more than a few of his bits that are pretty offensive by today's standards, less about gays but a whole lot about women. And let me qualify this by stating that I revere George Carlin. I literally wore out my first FM AM lp and had to buy a new one. I can still recite the Weird Willie West show from memory.

Consider Bill Hicks, one of the most talented, and ripped off (Dennis Leary owes his entire career to Bill), American comedians we have ever had. How many of his routines would play today? Goat Boy?

How about Lenny Bruce?

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:57 AM

47. Bill Hicks holds up pretty well

ok, maybe not goat boy, but his rifts on war, gov't, love, feel as relavent today as they were then. He left us much to early.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:39 AM

61. Yes he did.

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:55 AM

48. It was a particular routine.

 

After he got huge and was like a rock star. It was just an obnoxious, vicious routine. Almost like he wasn't sure how to follow up the things that made him that successful to begin with.

Now, his earlier stuff on Rodney Dangerfield's HBO show, his first special and anything he ever did on the Howard Stern show is still really good to excellent. Particularly the Stern appearances.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:38 AM

60. I don't dispute that his stuff was often disgusting, even at that time it made most

 

people cringe, gays and women in particular. Personally, I never cared for his set routines. He was always best live and improvising.

I was just saying that he was a true talent who had that spark where he could just riff and hold an audience seemingly forever. Nobody that was there that night has any memory of who any of the scheduled acts were, and nobody will ever forget Sam's set.

Oh, and not even God could help a heckler that was dumb enough to draw his attention.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:33 AM

70. I had the same reaction and thoughts

as you about a Saturday Night Live skit I first saw in the late '80s/early '90s about gay soldiers in a Civil War campsite. When I saw it again 5-6 years ago -- not funny to me at all.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:22 AM

80. I hated Sam Kinison as much as he hated us

even way back then.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:57 AM

85. Kinison apologized abjectly just before his death

For whatever that's worth.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:50 PM

93. As closely as I followed him back then, I didn't know that.

 

Good for him on that score.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:21 PM

2. I remember the "Chinese cook" on Bonanza

Last edited Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:46 PM - Edit history (2)

Ponytail, smock, obsequiousness. Those Cartwright boys were basically frat brothers. Didn't seem to rub off on my tiny brain though. Real life tends to contradict stereotypes pretty effectively.

Don't remember Scooby being racist -- more like crypto-stoner fare, looking back.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:56 PM

13. Hop-Sing was always a favorite of mine,,

I secretly wished he would poison them

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:09 PM

17. lol

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:14 AM

42. lol

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:07 AM

66. I'm pretty sure he tried.

Tragically, he only seemed to get the poison in the dishes of the love-interest-of-the-week.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:00 PM

14. hey...

You had four guys living together and the father was about three years older than the oldest son. He claimed that each wife died by different means, but there were no women around at almost anytime. Serial killer and liar, if you ask me...

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:12 PM

20. Any "love-interest" would be dead by the end of the hour

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:15 PM

22. God, that show really was creepy, wasn't it?!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #22)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:54 PM

30. Right, if any of the "boys" had a girlfriend, she wouldn't last more than an episode

I recall when Little Joe had a fiancee who discovered that she had a severe heart condition and wouldn't live more than a few months.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:55 PM

31. OMG

I just ed at that. My grandmother watched that in reruns, and I remember some of the episodes. I'm calling her tomorrow about this.

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:12 PM

32. Jesus, you're right. Even creepier than I thought.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:18 AM

68. Well, you know a COWBOY couldn't cook and do housework! :sarcasm: nt

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:26 PM

3. Kick, Rec. Every little bit helps.

I'm a little worried about the premise: that eliminating derogatory language toward gay people in media will translate into a diminution of homophobic attitudes and behavior in real life.


Attitudes are still untouched... near as I can tell ( as is homophobic lingo; it rages on unabated) --- amongst 'youts', anyway. I think straight adults generally don't talk about it anymore. It's hard for them to know what to do/say when it comes up in conversation so they don't do/say anything.

That could be an improvement, also. The downside is we don't know what they're really thinking.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:27 PM

4. Yeah, and go a little farther back in time and it gets horrific...

Add books to that list of entertainment that was accepted then by ofensive now.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:37 PM

7. Breakfast at Tiffany's (movie)

Mickey Rooney as an "Asian." wtf

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:40 PM

8. I just watched that movie for the fist time last week.

I could not believe Rooney's character was ever considered funny.

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Response to Common Sense Party (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:09 PM

18. Seriously

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:47 AM

64. or marlon brando as an "asian"

in "teahouse of the august moon." i didn't like that movie much

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Response to bedazzled (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:52 AM

82. Or David Carridine as an Asian ..

In the TV series Kung -Fu.eww

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:54 PM

39. No kidding.

I loved Nancy Drew as a child. I had all of them. My set was destroyed when our house burned down; I was in the eighth grade. So when my daughter was old enough for them, I bought her the complete set. Nostalgia got the better of me and I was reading them. And I noticed something funny. Nancy would help out Hannah by loading the dishwasher. In the books I read, Nancy did the dishes by hand. So I did some investigating, and found out that they "update" the books for new generations. Which made me wonder, what were the originals like?

So the great Nancy Drew used book/antique store hunt began. I have 15 that were published in the 20's and 30's. And there are a few things that are OMG shocking in there.

The first time Ned Nickerson (Ned!?! Clean-cut, unfailingly polite, all-American boy Ned!?!) used the word "darkey" I was so shocked I slammed the book shut. Like maybe I could stop the racism by closing the book.

Holy crap.

I wasn't expecting that.

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Response to Chellee (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:29 AM

43. The orginal Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys books from the 20s were shockingly racist

Thankfully, later editions of these books that came out in the late 50s redacted and rewrote some of the more offensive bits.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:42 PM

9. Sixteen Candles. *wince*

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:10 PM

19. Oh God

Which sucks, because parts of that movie are very good and pointed.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:09 AM

76. What was homophobic in "Candles"?

I know there was a quickie scene w. andrew dice clay , but I don't remember him saying anything explicitly homophobic . And it was otherwise a pretty good film considering its genre and time.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #76)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:29 AM

81. Not homophobia, the racism.

Long Duk Dong. There are lots of good parts in the film, but it really fell down on that one really bad caricature.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #81)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:18 AM

88. Uncanny. I don't remember it. ( That says something right there, I guess.)

But it gives me an excuse to watch it again.......

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:45 PM

10. Not my favorite childhood films...

 

To kill a Mockingbird, Grapes of Wrath, Wizard of Oz, Ol' Yeller and Bambi.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)


Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:53 PM

12. Anti-homosexual propaganda films were still being shown when I was in school

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:15 PM

21. oh jeeeeez... that's a terrible movie!

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:13 PM

33. Ralph was rocking the Michael O'Donghue/Robert Quine look early

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:48 PM

37. Wow



That's pretty appalling...

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Response to deutsey (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:24 PM

40. Homosexuality was officially classified as a mental illness until 1973

 

Most people who are alive today aren't old enough to remember that.

http://www.aglp.org/gap/1_history/

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #40)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:21 AM

59. I've heard that, but, man, I didn't realize this kind of propaganda existed

It's no wonder there are so many people who are convinced homosexuality is aberrant and dangerous. You have this kind of stuff shown to impressionable teens (I presume) combined with a lot of religious prejudice.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:02 AM

49. "lots of young people hitchhike, it seems like a good way to get from one place to another..."

 

different world

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:00 PM

15. On the bright side, doesn't this mean we have evolved and are making progress as a culture?

I watched Rudolph the other night. It's a paeon to bullying. But the snowman is cute.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:04 PM

16. Tango and Cash...I saw it in a foreign country and was ashamed by it

so homophobic. I was ashamed America was exporting hatefilms like that.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:22 PM

23. I have had my older daughter watch some of my favorite movies

only to find myself in a conversation about how horrible something happening in it is.

I guess the good side is that it opens the door for conversations about bigotry.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:25 PM

24. That classic Rudolf movie narrated by Burl Ives...

I can't stand watching it now because it seems to imply that it's OK to outcast "weird" people unless those "weird" people have some exceptional talent or ability.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:32 PM

25. My husband...

thinks Santa is the biggest dickhead ever in that film.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:47 PM

27. Seriously -- he was awful

I agree.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:13 PM

34. I agree with your husband

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:52 PM

38. I remember when I was a kid I didn't like him

and thought he was mean and cranky. It always confused me because I thought Santa was supposed to be jolly and fun and generous to everyone.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:33 PM

26. I thought the take-away was "A good leader brings out the best in everyone."

the good leader in this case being Santa.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:49 PM

29. Santa didn't do anything

Rudolph saved his ass. Rudolph himself and his friends helped him find the best within himself.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:48 PM

28. Also, Rudolph is technically "disabled" in a way

So, it's an added layer to casting out members of a society that are misfits.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:59 PM

35. Youch. That's a dark interpretation.


Not to say invalid. Because the material IS kind of dark, but I always thought the (slightly trite) theme was more like, "Everyone is a 'misfit' one way or another, but all have something worthwhile to contribute trala-la-hei-ho?"

Again, trite, sure, but then you don't have to hate it. For that reason, anyway. Sorta creepy, those old puppet-imation Christmas shows.

I loved them when I was a kid though.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:08 AM

87. remember the island.

The island of misfit toys in the movie where all the defected toys go.Mean Santa exiled them there never tried to repair them. Their union sucked.But good ole Rudolph saved them.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:37 AM

45. Good Lord.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:11 AM

41. I think the only show I ever had a hard time with was Woody Wood Pecker

I had a hard time believing as a kid I liked watching that show. A lot of older cartoons are violent, but Woody Wood Pecker is just a mean spirited *hole. Unlike Bugs bunny or Tom and Jerry there is rarely any attempt at sympathy so you root for Woody. I fact in watching a few episodes a few years back I was hoping Woody would lose and lose badly. The show is dreadful.

You have to remember what appears horribly racist today, might not seem horribly racist pre-1980. Prior to that just having an open gay, an Asian, a native American even be considered as a regularly occurring character was a breakthrough and was considered a big deal. It was considered progressive to just have a show that pointed out they actually existed on Earth. It was even longer until you had enough writers, actors and directors that could possibly portray and want to portray them with any since of realism or for non-comic effect. Hell read Lincoln or Darwin and by today's standards they seem like complete racist bastards. It isn't wrong to watch or read things and accept there historical context. Except Woody Wood Pecker which probably should be burned so as to not inflict future generations.




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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:33 AM

44. I was watching a bunch of old Looney Tunes cartoons recently,

There's an old Foghorn Leghorn cartoon, where Foggie says, “He's so dumb, he thinks a Mexican boarder pays rent.”

And then there are the less than flattering portrayals of Native Americans...

Now I see why a number of the libraries in our system don't catalog these Looney Tunes DVDs in the children's section.

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Response to TheMightyFavog (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 AM

50. I think that joke is probably about Mexican 'border' v. boarder, not about mexicans not paying rent.

 

and i bet mexican was picked v. canada because it was closer to hollywood.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:11 AM

77. Thanks. Wow. n/t

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Response to TheMightyFavog (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:58 AM

62. Watch Bugs Bunny cartoons from WWII

The Japanese stereotype of buckteeth, coke-bottle lens classes, slant eyes, etc., is way over the top. Of course, it's war propaganda, too. There are other examples I remember from Looney Tunes of racist caricatures, the main one I recall was Bugs behaving like a Steppin Fetchit-style slave begging Yosemite Sam (was a Confederate general, I think) not to whip him and then rushing off screen to re-appear as Lincoln scolding Sam: "What's this I hear about you whipping slaves?" At least Bugs as Lincoln then bops Sam on the head, if I remember correctly.

In terms of Mexican stereotypes, Speedy Gonzalez has quite a few. Speedy himself wasn't too bad (he always outsmarted as well as outran the cat and worked for the good of the other mice), but the other Mexican mice were shown as lazy and dull-witted.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #62)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:19 AM

79. Though what you say here is true ( racist caricatures) , you have to grant that....

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

>>>There are other examples I remember from Looney Tunes of racist caricatures, the main one I recall was Bugs behaving like a Steppin Fetchit-style slave begging Yosemite Sam (was a Confederate general, I think) not to whip him and then rushing off screen to re-appear as Lincoln scolding Sam: "What's this I hear about you whipping slaves?">>>

... if a young mind can absorb the *meaning* of the narrative that you've just described, he/she/s already absorbed more understanding of what the Civil War was about than many current HS grads and adults who are walking around with the most *peculiar* notions about their own US history. (The most peculiar being that history matters at all.)

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #79)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:52 AM

83. Yes, while the simple-minded slave caricature is there,

so is the notion of Lincoln reprimanding the South.

It's like Twain's Huckleberry Finn, in a way (and Chuck Jones was a big Twain fan). Some people today are really offended by his portrayal of Jim the runaway slave and the use of the "n" word. However, Twain was actually very progressive in terms of race relations, which is reflected in how he develops Jim's humanity and how it changes Huck's racial attitudes.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #83)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:59 AM

86. i actually find looney tunes kind of subversive. of all the old cartoons, they're my favorite.

 

i find a lot of present-day TV way more racist and classist, for example shows like "Cops" & "Lockup" which present largely black or underclass populations as bestial violent beings exclusively.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:57 AM

90. Looney Tunes ridiculed all types, definitely

I remember the one where Bugs matches wits with a tough white construction worker who wants to build a highway through Bugs's rabbit hole. Then there's the pompous opera singer, the muddle-headed Elmer Fudd, etc.

The artists were certainly playing around with common cultural stereotypes of different classes, races, and genders at the time. I don't know if they were trying to subvert these stereotypes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

The only overtly racist LT cartoons I remember, ones that were openly derogatory, were the WWII ones about the Japanese, and, as I say, that was wartime propaganda. Not justifying it, but it's just what it was.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:00 AM

46. Babes In Arms - 1939

You haven't seen anything until you have seen "Babes In Arms" starring Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland. When Rooney shows up in blackface, you have to pick your jaw off the floor. The clip appears to be Garland in blackface...but there are many Rooney clips as well.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=3tU4O94rYCY

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:39 AM

51. The Birdcage (1996 I think)

Not offensive as such but an example of how much things have changed. Back when it came out it was hilarious. Now the idea of two men lovingly raising a son (who turns out to be quite straightlaced) and their "flamboyance" is not especially surprising. Rented the movie recently and although still funny was surprised how much it aged.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:54 AM

54. Totally agree with this

I find it has aged quite badly as well.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:12 AM

67. Actually, I didn't think it was that surprising at the time.

Where the movie's really aged, IMO, is that the young couple is so eager to keep the girl's parents in the dark. Granted, they're cardboard cutout Republicans, but it's still a little surprising that she just didn't tell her parents to deal with it and it's very painful to watch the son asking his parents to pretend they're straight.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:46 AM

72. I remember the original, La Cage aux Folles being funnier.



Apparently the original musical version has recently been revived in the US and Europe.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:49 AM

52. The Maltese Falcon, otherwise a fabulous film, is pretty raw toward its one gay character.

Unfortunately, so is the book it's taken from.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:58 AM

53. It is utterly ridiculous to pick up a film made half a century or more ago and

expect it to line up perfectly with today's cultural climate. It just is. And, by the same token, it is equally ridiculous to expect books of other times to match the societal standards or beliefs of this moment in time. I watch old movies quite a bit. I've watched a few with my grandchildren. The offer a peek into another moment in history and how people thought. Rather than censoring, viewing should offer an opportunity for some discussion of then and now and what brought about such changes. Even small children can grasp the idea that people and ideas change and quite often for the better.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:56 AM

55. I don't think anyone has said they should

It's about how appalled we often are by how those older filmd or TV shows we loved are quite apallingly racist/phonic/sexist when we watch them now.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:12 AM

58. Agreed 100x

Just hiding things away isn't treating children with respect for their intelligence. I mean hell, do we throw away Seuss because of his WWII cartoons?

What's a very important lesson to teach is that it's not just bad people who think and do bad things, good people you respect can also have terrible ideas. And when they don't even know there's anything wrong with it in context, that's how it continues.

If I'm raised to call any black man a boy and older blacks aunt and uncle, how am I to know its wrong?

It also raises the question for the kids "what are you watching produced this very year that will seem just as backwards and wrong in the coming decades?"

Wigging out over a word can miss the point. Huck Finn gets thrown out and nobody realizes Jim is portrayed as a better man than most of the whites in the book.

When people got blown up in Looney Tunes, I thought the blackened faces and swollen lips were on account of trauma. So whenever I saw blackface in movies, I never realized they were supposed to be black, I thought someone had given them an exploding cigar. Made movies damned confusing for me as a kid.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:05 AM

74. +100 n/t

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #53)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:14 AM

78. You missed the point.

No one is expecting it to "line up perfectly with today's cultural climate." That's the point--it doesn't.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:07 AM

56. Thank god that woman was not my mom

No kid is going to enjoy anything if you pause to explain to them or need a lengthy discussion about every offhand remark that could be offensive.

Adventures in Babysitting is PG-13. If you believe your 13-year-old is traumatized by a boob or a swear word, then either you've sheltered them far too much or you're in complete denial (either they've seen worse at their friends' houses or your own and you just don't know it). Homo? Your son has heard much worse at school.

Stuff like this is similar to viruses. Kids shouldn't be overexposed, but some exposure is necessary to build up the immune system.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:09 AM

57. Revenge of the Nerds would never be made today.

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Extremely misogynistic/sexist, homophobic, body shaming, mean spirited bullying, racist stereotypes . . . that's like the Stanley Cup of cringe-worthy items you found funny back then but are like "that's so wrong" today.

. . . . but I, like an idiot, watch it every time it comes on . . .

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:51 AM

65. Okay, if you regard The Karate Kid as an "old movie," you must be young.

"Old movie" is Wizard of Oz, Great Expectations, Snow White, Cinderella, Dumbo, etc.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:08 AM

75. I'm with you. I know some people who won't watch a movie if it's in B&W

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:46 PM

92. I didn't write the article

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:25 AM

69. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers;

wonderful dancing, wonderful singing and also abduction, marriage under false pretenses, forced marriage ...

Khartoum, with Lawrence Olivier as the Mahdi (and Charlton Heston as General Gordon but that's another complaint)

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:36 AM

71. Hey guys: People will watch movies made TODAY in 20 years and say the same thing!

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:02 AM

73. SHM

I have to admit I love Tom & Jerry, but every time I see an episode with the Black maid, with broken English, overweight looking like aunt chimama I SMH

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:56 AM

84. Lethal Weapon w/ Mel Gibson and Danny Glover

Scene 1: a house blows up next to them, Gibson's coat is on fire, and Glover goes to put it out. "What are you, a fag?" asks Gibson.

Scene 2: They're discussing the case at the firing range, Glover suggests the two women in question might have been in bed together. "OK," replies Gibson. "Disgusting but OK."

When they show the movie nowadays on regular TV, the edit the first one out. Not the second.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:24 AM

89. Doris Day and Rock Hudson..

They did 2 movies called "Lover come back " and "Pillow talk".In both movies Hudson plays a playboy who tries to woo Doris Day with mistaken identity.But there was a lot of homophobic references in both movies.

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