Perhaps I've missed it but has anyone heard of 'defense cuts' or curtailing our military adventures

[Purveyor]

in all the budget crisis debate?

Foreign aid? Nary a mention from what I can tell...

[AldoLeopold]

1. No

And its time. Really, really time.

[tammywammy]

2. Sequestration starts Jan 2.

Which includes defense cuts.

[zbdent]

9. The ONLY times I heard about Defense cuts (by non-lefties) was when they talked about it kicking in

on 1/2 ...

Never have I heard ANYTHING from a RW teasucker about cuts to the Defense Dept. as part of averting the cliff ...

Only "cutting entitlements, liberal sacred cows, etc." ...

[riverbendviewgal]

3. time for coal, oil and gas subsidies to end.

[Egalitarian Thug]

4. Of course not, this is the point of the whole "fiscal cliff" nonsense.

The politicians don't want, under any circumstances, to be put in a position of actually having to deal with the budget. Both sides are determined to reach some kind of deal. Otherwise, the automatic cuts and taxes happen and they will have to go on record in dealing with the fallout.

Don't be stupid, there is no crisis, force the issue and see what happens.

[pangaia]

5. "curtailing our military adventures." ??

Oh my goodness no. We can't do that. We will be ....WEAK in the eyes of the world. The Chinese will surpass us. The Arabs will get us. No, the gays will attack (us), or rather, now according to Mary Mataln, the unwed parents will destroy us...



(I'm a drummer. I just like this one.)

[AldoLeopold]

6. Got a couple of unwed parents banging on my door

They're moaning "brains" and rotting all over my doorstep. Gotta get out the chainsaw and flame thrower!!!

[CrazyOrangeCat]

10. Drummer, eh??

Drummers are a bad lot.

Almost as bad as guitarists . . .

[pangaia]

32. Can't argue with you there.

But at least we use all 4 limbs ..

[CrazyOrangeCat]

34. true enough

And you don't trip over cords constantly. Almost lost a good SG that way...

[RKP5637]

26. The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming ... And the Gay Agenda, how will we fight the

Gay Agenda without a huge military budget. And the Homeless, they are coming after us too. More military, more kill power. Go USA! Go USA!

[JaneyVee]

7. What, and only have a military 6x bigger than the next 10 countries combined?!

[RKP5637]

27. When DEAD just isn't dead enough, you need a bigger military. Often the US reminds me of

someone that puts 10 locks on the front door and forgets to lock the back door. Inefficient use of existing locks ...

[AlexSatan]

28. Actually, our military is not the largest

China's is.
http://listphobia.com/2011/01/07/10-countries-with-the-largest-armed-forces/

If you count reserves, there are quite a few larger than ours.

Our military budget/expenditures is largest however.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. Not a single word on MSNBC or any other news outlet on TV and

not even Dem politicians are talking about it, from the top all the way down.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

11. The MIC isn't going to diminish anytime soon.

Sadly, it is a monster with many heads.

[woo me with science]

12. Isn't that strange.

Who ever could have predicted that?

[dballance]

13. Are you kidding? Cut the MIC? That's heresy of the highest order.

Last edited Mon Dec 10, 2012, 05:33 AM - Edit history (1)

I'd love to see us cut military spending since at this time in the world it's unlikely we'll need to marshall forces to defend our borders. Even if we did need to we have more than enough manpower and firepower to do so.

The founders never envisioned a standing army and were afraid of such a thing. That's one reason we have the 2nd Amendment.

Their fears about having a standing army have largely come true. The military has pretty much become the fourth branch of government. Exacerbated by the fact generals and admirals don't have to be elected and get to serve for 20 or 30 years but politicians that might want to reign them in have to run for re-election every 2 to 6 years.

I defy anyone to prove to me the Joint Chiefs don't wield more power over policy in the long term than any President and their cabinet.

I do realize huge cuts to the MIC would cause impacts far beyond just Boeing, Lockheed-Martin and the other huge MIC contractors. There are tons of subsidiary and supporting businesses that would be screwed. However, congress seems to be ready to screw the elderly, the retired and veterans by changing rules on "entitlements" all those people have paid for all of their working lives through the deductions from their paychecks.

I know it would be horrible to impact all the people who make a living directly or indirectly from the MIC. But if we're going to talk about "shared sacrifice" then it might be their company's and their time to share in some sacrifice and find new sources of revenue or fail in that holy "free market" the Republicans are so fond of. Just like all the garment workers, the manufacturing workers like the people at very profitable Sensata and all the other people who's jobs were moved offshore due to low wages in foreign countries and the stupid "free trade" deals we signed up for.

Shared sacrifice isn't just for other people.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

14. That's absolutely correct. John Adams . . .

. . . wanted a strong navy, with an able marine corps. And that was it.

I think he was onto something there . . .

[AlexSatan]

29. No air/space/cyber force?

Things have changed a bit since Adams' time.

If someone was going to attack America, there was plenty of time to organize an army before they got here.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

31. You're right, things have changed drastically.

But the idea of not actually having a standing army in 1800 . . . is interesting. He was the truest of revolutionary thinkers, and I wish we had his mind on our side today. I think he'd be kicking conservative ass, and taking names.

Welcome to DU, btw.

[Purveyor]

15. And yet we liberals go 'merrily along our way' without even one 'rec' to this thread. Go figure.

[On the Road]

16. Doesn't Matter if You've Heard About It

There will undoubtedly be defense cuts. The only question is how much.

[Purveyor]

19. Offer up some details...eom

[AlexSatan]

30. Here

"The proposal that House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and other Republican leaders sent to the White House this week calls for cuts of $300 billion in discretionary spending to achieve savings of $2.2 trillion over 10 years. The blueprint offered no specifics on the cuts, although the Pentagon and defense-related departments such as Homeland Security and State make up roughly half of the federal government's discretionary spending."

http://news.yahoo.com/fiscal-cliff-offers-hint-more-defense-cuts-080327827--finance.html

"The new military strategy includes $487 billion in cuts over the next decade. An additional $500 billion in cuts could be coming if Congress follows through on plans for deeper reductions. The announcement comes weeks after the U.S. officially ended the Iraq War and after a decade of increased defense spending in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/01/obama-defense-cuts/1#.UMYruYM5zng

Note that $487B is in addition to the sequestration cuts.

[99Forever]

17. K&R

Business as usual. Don't you know the 11th Commandment?


Thou shalt not fuck with the pigs at the trough of the MIC.


Can I get an aaaahhhhmen?

[Bigmack]

18. Are you kidding..? We'll spend to the max on "Defense" ...

... until we collapse.

We'll have people - more people, actually - starving in the streets, and we'll still be spending more on "defense" than we did at the height of the Cold War.

Fucking stupid!

[Purveyor]

20. The former USSR knows this too well! Now Russia/China will be just setting back and 'chuckling'.

OH...btw, isn't it time to borrow more money to fund the israel 'iron drone' and tanks for Egypt?

Just wondering.

[hay rick]

21. Sequestration.

The Budget Control Act of 2011 calls for across-the-board cuts to military spending. Link:http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/23/news/economy/obama-romney-foreign-policy/index.html
From the article: "Starting in 2013, defense budget authority would be sliced by 9.4%, not including war funding. The cuts to some parts of defense would be higher because Obama has exempted military personnel and veterans' affairs from the sequester."

Republicans are opposed to any cuts to defense spending. In September, the House passed the National Security and Job Protection Act which would have exempted all defense spending from sequestration.

Obama on sequestration (http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2012/10/liveblog-third-presidential-debate/58946/): "The sequester is not something I proposed. It's something Congress has proposed. It will not happen."

More from Obama in the third debate, with commentary (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/military-spending-obama-romney_n_2006266.html )

"Our military spending has gone up every single year that I've been in office," Obama said. "We spend more on our military than the next 10 countries combined."

He was right -- and when he said it, it almost sounded like a brag. Aside from a brief proposed dip in 2013, Obama's budget calls for military spending to continue to increase.

The Budget Control Act, which calls for the cuts in military spending, was passed with support from both sides of the aisle and signed by the President in 2011. After the catfood commission failed to come up with a solution to curb deficit spending, however, both sides appear ready to renege on the deal.

[Purveyor]

22. Most likely the 'only' reason the USA will not 'go off the cliff'...or at least for long. eom

[hay rick]

23. One of several reasons.

Also expect the annual rituals of an AMT patch and Medicare "doc fix" to help turn the fiscal cliff into a more manageable slope.

[Coyotl]

24. Yes, I've heard it mentioned with respect to the "Cliff"

In particular, the number of jobs that will be eliminated if the Cliff impacts the military. My thinking is that the same money can employ a lot more people in another productive sector, like people working on infrastructure.

So, bring on the Cliff so we can finally cut the military and raise capital gains all in one simple do-nothing something.

[Octafish]

25. Thanks for reminding me! Whatever happened to the peace dividend, anyway?

"Money trumps peace." - George W Bush

[hughee99]

33. I heard we were getting out of Afghanistan in 2014. n/t