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Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:48 AM

Why men's rights advocates feel creepy

People are assholes in general. Therefore it stands to reason we'll get them in male and female flavors. And we certainly have evidence of that. Just read the police blotter and you'll see there are many angry and crazy women to go with the angry and crazy men.

And yes, there is a measure of blindness in society towards this sort of thing, assuming a man can defend himself or that he had it coming.

But even while admitting that, the self-identified MRA's seem to have a bigger chip on their shoulders and it always seems to go beyond an accurate description of the problem to a paranoid nightmare view of reality with gynocratic dictators persecuting innocent men.

I get the same vibes when social program faults are criticized from the right. I want reform of abuse and they say they want the same but their version of reform is repeal. You can't abuse a system that ain't there!

Back when an MRA leader self-immolated outside a courthouse there were links to subculture forums and their view of things was pretty eye-opening. It reminded me of the same sort of paranoid ideation of the winger sites, just swap out the bugbear for your favorite threat. Jews, blacks, illegals, liberals, gays, it all seems interchangeable.

It basically feels like an elaborate rationalization to avoid accepting blame. Is it likelier everyone else in the world has a problem or just me? Let's go with the rest of the world.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:10 AM

1. I think "Men's rights activism" is a very broadly and perhaps poorly defined term.

The wikipedia article lists 16 different issues which are generally understood to be encompassed by the term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement

I somehow find it inappropriate to combine them into a package and validate or dismiss the package only as a whole. Each of these issues should be examined independently.

I have yet to see anyone argue with actual statistics as to whether men are favored or disfavored by divorce courts. All of the discussions seem to take place on a level of "Bwahaha you sexist!!11"

From the wiki page:

"Men's rights activists are concerned with false accusations of rape and sexual assault and desire to protect men from the negative consequences of false accusations. They assert that the naming of the accused while providing the accuser with anonymity encourages abuse."

Not sure whether I agree with the "encourages abuse" thing, but it does make sense to me that both accuser and accused should remain anonymous.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:43 AM

2. I don't have a problem with the issues

It's with the proponents. I do believe in equal rights for all. I just take issue with the way the most vocal supporters take it. It's like I don't have a problem with responsible gun owners handling their business. I have a big problem with gun fondlers. The difference? A responsible owner sees a self-defense story and says "sucks to live through that but at least you lived through it." The fondlers read the same story and write gleeful replies of "good shoot, good shoot." Are all gun owners gun fondlers? No. But the fondlers are the ones who make all the rest look like nutjobs.

Now I know damn well some men have gotten screwed over on these sorts of issues. But I get real leery about who's coming out to champion the cause.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:22 AM

3. The distinction of 'gun owners' and 'gun fondlers' is a great way to put it. My husband was

dragged through court with his ex-wife and their divorce, and he was treated abominably about 30 years ago. I can totally understand how men can be screwed in divorces. But when I read some MRA stuff, it makes me sick -- I want to write these guys a letter saying, "Look, you guys, you can save yourself ALL the trouble by not getting married and not having any kids, if you hate women that much!!" There's plenty of sex to be had by just paying for it, or having very casual girlfriends. And making sure you use protection.

Women, of course, can be screwed in divorces, too, but this is conveniently forgotten often.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:34 PM

6. I guess the blogs full of woman-jokes don't really help either.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:38 AM

5. Very well said.

In my experience, it is more often used as a strawman to derail discussion of any of those issues, than a label that people apply to themselves.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:27 AM

4. People on the fringes are always creepy


when they come from a place of bitterness and lack of self-reflection.

Which is not to say all fringe groups are full of bitter, deluded people.

Only that the thrill some get from hurting and disparaging an entire gender or race or whatever group - to get even for their own personal tragedies - is the sign of very real sickness.

These groups are also places that very isolated, unsocialized people are drawn to; they feel safety in the hatred.

You want to hate them back, but you have to feel sorry for those who feel outcast to that degree.

I got stalked by one of these types once. It really pissed me off after I figured him out.

He ended up falling off a two-story ladder and dying. Sad but then he couldn't do any more damage to me or anyone else and I did feel safer in the world.











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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:33 PM

7. one of the problems....

...actually the main problem is I see these mens rights members as advocating mens rights at the expense of womens rights. If someone could create a mens rights group that dosent trample on womens rights it would be better received.

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Response to actslikeacarrot (Reply #7)


Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:41 PM

8. Mens rights advocates sounds like white rights advocates

When the group that has more power complains that they are being victimized it goes over with a big thud. That doesn't mean that things are always fair on an individual level. But its very hard to form a group to defend the rights of those who already have an advantage.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #8)


Response to undeterred (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:12 PM

12. You rarely find a member of a "White Rights" group who isn't racist just as you

rarely find a member of a "Men's Rights" group who isn't a misogynist.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:32 PM

11. They're misogynists and nothing more.

They hate women. Period. End of discussion.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:16 PM

13. With the odd handful of exceptions that more or less really is it.

I don't recall running into any self-described MRAs who wouldn't feel right at home in the viler parts of Reddit.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:39 PM

14. They extrapolate personal misfortunes, on the flimsiest of evidence, into "misandry" conspiracy

theories. And not only that but these guys generally seem afraid - I mean REALLY afraid - of women. Baffles me a bit.

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