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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObese woman told she was "too fat to fly" home, dies of kidney failure
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Mrs Soltesz needed to return to New York from her holiday home in Hungary to resume medical treatment. She suffered from kidney disease and diabetes and reportedly "did not trust" Hungarian doctors.
But the Dutch airline KLM was unable to get her on board a flight on which she had booked two seats to accommodate her.
She was then told to drive to Prague in the Czech Republic where she would be given seats on a larger Delta Airlines flight. But, according to Mr Ronai, she was unable to be belted into that plane and "the captain came out of the cockpit and made her get off".
Mrs Soltesz died of kidney failure before an alternative flight could be found.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20510267#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa
I don't get it. They allowed her to board and fly to Europe no problem, but somehow couldn't allow her to fly back?
Sure, she weighs 425-pounds which is pretty big, but not THAT big. A single economy/coach seat can fit a 215-lb. person, so two seats should be enough to accommodate her.
Hell, at least she was considerate enough to book two seats. I've seen some real fat fuckers squeeze into one seat, and "ooze over" into adjacent seats.
Sounds like her husband has one hell of a lawsuit on his hands. Maybe that's what it will take for airlines to add more bigger seats instead of sandwiching everyone in like sardines in the first place.
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TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)Is it customary to book two seats? I always wondered what they do. And at what weight (or width) would a person have to book a second seat?
My BIL is very, very, big but I never asked him.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Adn there are some people whose health is too precarious to travel, and probably should not.. It's sad that she was not able to get home...and even sadder that she could not find trustworthy care where she was. Many people find care abroad to be better...and cheaper too.
Mariana
(14,863 posts)then it's not really fair to say that "...she could not find trustworthy care where she was."
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Presumably before her medical situation deteriorated she could also have taken a train to say, Germany, if for some reason all Hungarian hospitals were beneath her standards. Or she could have opted to go to a hospital rather than an airport on her arrival in Prague.
Apparently she missed several weeks of dialysis, which is pretty much suicidal.
edit: I suspect refusing to fly her had more to do with her dire medical condition than her size.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)She just wasn't overweight or even obese. As you pointed out, it looks like she had a dire medical condition that, had she been my wife, I would have immediately put her in an ambulance and gotten to the nearest hospital as soon as possible.
http://rt.com/usa/news/new-york-woman-soltesz-644/
I wonder what her husband was thinking...
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)And look how enormous her abdomen was compared to her legs.
She needed emergency medical treatment, not a trans-Atlantic flight.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)her face looks bloated too, and she looks much larger than 415 lbs. Probably due to kidney failure. So sad.
obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)It is obvious looking at her she is one step from death, it is obvious she has insane water. Anyone blaming the airline on this is being willfully ignorant. They did the right thing.
The agony this woman was in... why didn't she seek medical care, and why did she skip dialysis?!
Mariana
(14,863 posts)then it's not really his fault. We don't know exactly what happened, of course. If she requested to be taken to a doctor or a hospital and he refused to help her, of course he should be prosecuted.
REP
(21,691 posts)I don't know if she was receiving dialysis before this happened (and many dialysis patients can urinate; the kidneys just don't filter enough waste) or suddenly went end-stage, but judging from the photos, she could have been suffering from confusion as a result of too much/too little salt/potassium (etc) or just being poisoned by the waste the kidneys are supposed to filter from the blood, or even an infection that resulted in hydronephrosis (and fever delirium).
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)they wouldn't allow her to fly.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Unlikely.
As noted above, she died because she refused to seek medical care.
She did not die because she was denied boarding to an airplane. Your purchase of an airline ticket does not obligate the airline to get you from point A to point B on any particular flight or aircraft. Airlines do not assume liability for operating as emergency ambulances. A commercial passenger flight is not a medical evacuation mission, and it is unreasonable to rely on a commercial passenger flight to be one. That's not the service they offer.
The crew has complete discretion to determine that a particular passenger may present a safety risk. If the passenger cannot be belted in, the plane is not allowed to take off.
As also pointed out above, having a medical condition alone may be a reason to deny boarding. If you are in some sort of terminal condition, they do not have to let you on the plane. Airlines will routinely deny boarding to women in late stages of pregnancy, for one example.
From experience, I was on a flight where a passenger had a medical emergency and the plane was forced to make an unscheduled landing to deplane that passenger. As a consequence, I missed a connecting flight to Nairobi, and this set off a chain of events that was extremely expensive. I certainly don't begrudge getting that guy off for medical attention. But that one guy, who boarded sick, had ripple effects which in the aggregate affected some 200 other people, many of whom also had urgent reasons to get to where they needed to be. Did someone else miss their "critical operation" because of that? Who knows?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)
malaise
(269,282 posts)Why did take his sick wife on a holiday to a country where he made no arrangements for her to receive dialysis. That's why she died.
obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)Why did he do that?
Response to LAGC (Original post)
Post removed
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)Apparently, it's quite high.
Democratopia
(552 posts)The reason was simple. I was getting fat. I was not exercising. I was over-eating. I was lucky I didn't wreck my kidneys or have serious heart disease. I am not going to blame anyone else. I am not going to make excuses. I am not going to say this poor woman was the victim of the airline. We need to take responsibility for what we do to our own bodies and stop pointing the finger at others.
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)about what happened that led her there. The scenarios are too numerous to even begin but suffice it to say accident or injury, external or internal can put a once healthy person you would presumably, pretentiously "approve" of to just such a condition in a shockingly short period of time. You can take a seat on that republican "personal responsibility" crap and take a spin. I hope you have a ladder on your saddle, you'll probably need it again someday.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)from the photo, she appears to have anasarca -- diffuse or generalized edema -- likely from her kidney failure. What caused the kidney failure is uncertain but in the US, the two main causes are hypertension and diabetes mellitus. We don't know the specifics of her case and shouldn't speculate or blame her for her condition. Rather, the poor judgment is foregoing dialysis and trying to fly in such a grave state.
I agree with you that obesity is a killer and that many instinctively judge the obese as lazy, undisciplined, irresponsible, gluttonous... But adrenal disease can cause obesity of the torso (called truncal obesity) as can corticosteroid treatment for autoimmune disorders, allergies, avoidance of organ transplant rejection. Other conditions and drugs can also play a role.
The cultural change in how food is grown and processed in the US along with the more sedentary lifestyle habits of much of the populace contributes to the dismaying stats on obesity in this country, but not everyone is able (time/work schedules, food sources, finances) to take charge of his/her life as you did and for which you are to be commended.
Yes, we all need to take responsibility, but for some it's more difficult than choices.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)you should have a chance to explain how you came about making this medical diagnosis and what your medical credentials just might be.
Otherwise, your comment is just about as hateful and prejudiced as someone who uses the "N-*" word. I think you should delete your comment.
Democratopia
(552 posts)Obesity kills. It isn't a theory. It is a fact. Please don't call telling it as it is "hateful." What is hateful is a culture that encourages a situation where Americans have become the most obese nation on the planet. That creates human suffering and it is wrong from every ethical point of view I can think of when medical care is not a infinite resource and a billion people are malnourished.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)offering one iota of proof or credentials to back up your Frist-like diagnosis-at-a-distance. Now you're walking back your comments by making some abstract policy claim about obesity???
mythology
(9,527 posts)I don't know that you can say this was a case of gluttony. It's certainly a case of stupidity. Skipping dialysis is just inane.
Democratopia
(552 posts)If that is not gluttony, what is? That isn't to say that I don't care about the fate of this poor woman. I cried when I read that story to my wife. We have an obesity crisis in this nation and that is part of a culture of reckless excess. We need to stop blaming other people.
liberalhistorian
(20,822 posts)and was utterly disgusted and saddened. I thought about posting it here, but figured the fat-haters and blamers would be out in full force and just didn't want to deal with it. And here they all come now!!!
Iggo
(47,594 posts)See above.
liberalhistorian
(20,822 posts)And there will be plenty more, believe me. There are more than enough fat-haters and child-haters around here, even for a progressive board.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)continue posting in this thread.
madinmaryland
(64,934 posts)and did not get it, for whatever reason. She was a very seriously ill woman.
Democratopia
(552 posts)Why do you think USA has become the most obese nation on the planet? One of the reasons is that it is politically incorrect to say a 425 pound woman is fat as a result of her lifestyle and needs to take responsibility. How are we going to deal with this problem? As a nation our consumption is unsustainable with reckless disregard for the consequences. The human suffering is immeasurable. We need to deal with it, not keep pretending that there isn't a problem.
ecstatic
(32,786 posts)plays in all of this. Not including this particular woman, a lot of people in this country are obese because of the quality of our food supply. We eat sick chickens and cattle. And to top it off, almost every manufacturer now uses high fructose corn syrup and other additives that are slowly killing us.. Inferior foods, even so called healthy food, could be making people less energetic, therefore less willing to exercise.
On the other hand, I've become thin because I'm equally disgusted by both the "bad" and "good" items being sold at my local supermarkets. I don't trust the fruits they put out, but I also don't trust the TV dinner crap.
Marr
(20,317 posts)I agree with you-- this country is full of morbidly obese people telling each other it's not their fault. It's not that they're eating too much and moving too little, no. It's the food's fault. It's society's fault. Or it's not even a problem at all and we should all just agree that being obese is great. Or the person is just naturally morbidly obese and somehow defies the laws of physics, creating the energy they need to maintain their size from out of thin air.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)weighed about 400 pounds. She flew to Colorado with me. She had no problem fitting into the seat though it was a tight squeeze. Fortunately, after the bypass she lost over 200 pounds.
Democratopia
(552 posts)I lost 50 pounds and it changed my life. I bet your daughter's life and her enjoyment of life has transformed beyond recognition.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)1) the most common treatment for nearly all kidney diseases is steroids
2) steroids cause weight gain and can cause diabetes
3) late stage kidney disease/failure causes massive edema (water retention)
4) even perfectly managed diabetics can develop complications
5) Stage 5 kidney failure (ESRD) can happen suddenly
Democratopia
(552 posts)She was never obese, but had steroids for another medical condition and she became diabetic. It was really the start of a rapid decline in her health a few years before she passed on.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)They tried to accommodate her but she was to sick to be traveling across the Atlantic. She needed to either have been taken to the hospital in Hungary, or not been in Hungary at all while being that ill.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
KatyMan
(4,218 posts)stupid? They were following their policies and procedures. This woman was obviously too ill to fly on a commercial airliner.
obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Figures and facts about nephrology in Hungary
• Population of Hungary, 10 000 000
• Estimated number of patients at risk of kidney diseases (diabetes, hypertension), 600 000
• Estimated number of patients with CKD > stage 2, 60 000
• Pateints on dialysis, 6 000
• Patients living with functioning graft, 3 000
• Number of nephrologists in Hungary, 250
• Members of the Society, 450
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)board any person for whom they do not want to assume responsibility. Just from the photo, I don't see how she could fit going down the aisle, laterally, or horizontally even in two seats. And she was clearly desperately ill.
Also, consider it might be financial. She might have gone there for state medical care given she's a property owner, and they may have cut back the heroic-type, high-cost care when it became clear she was dying. Another version of "death panels"... doctors and hospitals and insurance people make decisions on level of care. Tough choices.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Seats are not all the same size.
What a sad story.
lalalu
(1,663 posts)
She could have gotten emergency medical treatment at various times but chose to be stubborn over her own health. She was in denial about her obesity and health. A lot of people die because of their own choices and it started with choices she made long before this happened. It's sad but you can't save everyone from themselves.
Democratopia
(552 posts)
There were many issues that contributed to this tragedy, but we should not gloss over her own role in this situation.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)And that condition made it impossible for her to secure her seat belts
What I cannot understand is if you are in need of dialysis and don't trust Hungarian doctors why would you go to Hungary.
Am I missing something?
lalalu
(1,663 posts)I have seen this before and if they were stubborn and closed minded before they got ill it can be even worse. Many doctors feel therapy and counseling should be a basic part of anyone's treatment but try telling that to patients.
Pain, fatigue, and anger can lead to decisions they later regret. There is therapy that only deals with people expressing their fears of their disease and issues of pain. There is no medicine involved they just discuss nutrition, exercises to relieve stress or pain, how to continue working if that is their goal, and even how to plan things like travel. Unfortunately many people ignore the connection between mental health and learning to live with a major disease.
fugop
(1,828 posts)Seriously, after following this link and reading several stories, I really have to wonder what the hell the husband was thinking. They spent NINE DAYS trying to get a flight instead of getting medical treatment? I mean, I understand perhaps they didn't want to be treated out of the U.S., but then why the heck would you travel if you knew your wife was this ill?
And the stories I'm reading give you information the sensationalistic headlines don't, i.e., the airlines were physically unable to board her. One got her on board but couldn't make the belt fit. Extenders didn't work. One said she didn't fit across three seats. The husband claims in one that she died because the airline didn't want to be "inconvenienced." What a load of manure. If the airlines were trying to make this work for hours, days even, clearly they were trying to make this work. Meanwhile, the husband allowed his deathly ill wife to continue refusing care and instead just wait around waiting for a flight???
And now, the lawyer says the airline got her overseas so it was their responsibility to get her home? While that may be the case, I'm sure eventually the airline would have found a way. But their timetable clearly was an emergency, which the airline, as others have noted, is not equipped to meet.
I'm just amazed that this is a lawsuit, and for once, I take the airlines' side. But seriously, I have to wonder what the husband's agenda was. If my spouse were in an emergency health situation, I wouldn't spend nine days fighting with an airline. I'd drive to the hospital and refuse to leave until my spouse got treatment. I really have to wonder about the guy.
lalalu
(1,663 posts)Either he was stressed out or he saw this as a way out.
Mariana
(14,863 posts)Perhaps whatever insurance they had wouldn't pay for treatment overseas, and he/she/they didn't want to spend the money. As for taking the trip in the first place, there was probably an element of denial as to the seriousness of her situation. I can imagine them asking her doctor, "How long can she go without dialysis and still recover?" and then planning the trip so as to come back before that time was up.
All of this is pure speculation, of course.
lalalu
(1,663 posts)overseas they don't even charge you for emergency treatment. They may send a bill to the insurance company if you have one and will accept what they pay. It is really different from the way things are done here.
Whatever the reason it is strange and sad.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Honestly now.
I don't see why it should be so inconceivable that the woman made this series of decisions for herself. She was an adult.
KatyMan
(4,218 posts)she was booked on- she was unable to get into the seats. Commercial airline personnel are not allowed to transfer people from wheelchair to seat. It is a big liability. You should not expect to board a commercial airliner if you cannot seat yourself or if your companion cannot sit you. There are many medical evacuation companies in Europe (my wife worked for the biggest one when we lived in London)--- This woman was obviously too ill to be without medical attention. The airline did the right thing by refusing to board her. End of story.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)an emergency landing. It would be the same if a small, male looking clearly deathly, were having to be assisted on the plane...let alone in my row of seats. And this was a long transatlantic flight...no where to emergency land. Just. No.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Do you have similar derogatory comments about people whose skin color (rather than amount) you don't like?
LAGC
(5,330 posts)I was only referring to those who are inconsiderate about other passengers and invade their space.
I weigh 370 pounds myself and can *barely* squeeze into an Economy seat, but I always book Business Class whenever that is an option, especially for long flights, just to be polite (and have some elbow room.)
I understand not everyone can afford to do that, but until airlines add more bigger seats, its just rude for folks over 300 pounds to ride in Economy unless they buy 2 seats, or find a flight that isn't full so they can "spill over" into an empty seat.
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)in more ways than you think.
