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Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:41 PM

 

WTF- Elizabeth Warren wants to cut a part of "Obama care" siding with the 1%ers/ repubs/tea!!!

it's a throwaway line in the article from Slate below about Eric Cantor wanting to put Obamacare on the table.

Read the last paragraph.

Elizabeth Warren is on the side of the repub/tea/libertarians in wanting to cut Obama's health care?

WTF???

Undo the signature legislation President Obama gave us that we worked 50 years to attain???.

Why wasn't this known nationwide??? (It is now).

This is a very, very bad start.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/11/26/eric_cantor_obama_ought_to_be_putting_obamacare_on_the_table.html

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Reply WTF- Elizabeth Warren wants to cut a part of "Obama care" siding with the 1%ers/ repubs/tea!!! (Original post)
graham4anything Nov 2012 OP
graham4anything Nov 2012 #1
dsc Nov 2012 #2
karynnj Nov 2012 #29
JaneyVee Nov 2012 #3
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #32
Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #42
Champion Jack Nov 2012 #51
graham4anything Nov 2012 #34
elleng Nov 2012 #4
graham4anything Nov 2012 #33
Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #44
bluestateguy Nov 2012 #5
bluedigger Nov 2012 #6
graham4anything Nov 2012 #7
Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #10
graham4anything Nov 2012 #14
Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #15
HERVEPA Nov 2012 #8
graham4anything Nov 2012 #13
Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #9
frazzled Nov 2012 #20
Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #61
MADem Nov 2012 #76
graham4anything Nov 2012 #11
PoliticAverse Nov 2012 #18
BeyondGeography Nov 2012 #12
graham4anything Nov 2012 #16
abelenkpe Nov 2012 #17
LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #19
julian09 Nov 2012 #21
graham4anything Nov 2012 #22
Samantha Nov 2012 #23
graham4anything Nov 2012 #25
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #24
graham4anything Nov 2012 #27
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #26
elleng Nov 2012 #28
jberryhill Nov 2012 #30
Le Taz Hot Nov 2012 #37
brokechris Nov 2012 #31
Comrade_McKenzie Nov 2012 #35
trumad Nov 2012 #36
graham4anything Nov 2012 #39
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #41
graham4anything Nov 2012 #46
lunatica Nov 2012 #40
ProSense Nov 2012 #38
graham4anything Nov 2012 #43
ProSense Nov 2012 #50
graham4anything Nov 2012 #52
Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #45
graham4anything Nov 2012 #47
graham4anything Nov 2012 #49
WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #48
trumad Nov 2012 #53
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #55
graham4anything Nov 2012 #57
LWolf Nov 2012 #54
graham4anything Nov 2012 #60
randome Nov 2012 #56
graham4anything Nov 2012 #59
quinnox Nov 2012 #58
TheCowsCameHome Nov 2012 #62
graham4anything Nov 2012 #63
TheCowsCameHome Nov 2012 #64
Romulox Nov 2012 #65
graham4anything Nov 2012 #66
Romulox Nov 2012 #67
Zorra Nov 2012 #68
graham4anything Nov 2012 #71
Zorra Nov 2012 #75
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #69
graham4anything Nov 2012 #72
ProSense Nov 2012 #73
graham4anything Nov 2012 #74
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #70
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #77
PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #78
graham4anything Dec 2012 #79
PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #80

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:43 PM

1. from the above article-

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/11/26/eric_cantor_obama_ought_to_be_putting_obamacare_on_the_table.html

Some Democrats, like incoming Sen. Elizabeth Warren, are open to cutting the device tax. But cutting back either that tax or IPAB costs money. Getting rid of them doesn't actually bring down the deficit at all -- it does the exact opposite.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:44 PM

2. She wishes to get rid of the medical device tax

which hits MA companies hard.

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Response to dsc (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:04 AM

29. Just politics because it affects MA and something Brown introduced legislation on

In fact, in the Finance committee, Senator Kerry lobbied successfully to reduce the original proposed tax on those devices to less than half of what it was in Baucus' draft. To do this, Kerry proposed adding the same method MA uses in their exchanges to push companies to be more competitive in their pricing. The CBO credited that with cost savings that Kerry proposed using part of on lowering this and on reducing the age pricing differential.

Obviously, there are affected companies pushing getting rid of all the extra tax.

The question is whether Warren has a proposal of where to get the money to replace the money from the tax.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:45 PM

3. It says medical device tax, not Obamacare.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:28 AM

32. You're relying on facts? If everyone did that, it would slow things down.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:22 AM

42. good line, very good line

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #32)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:49 AM

51. +1000000000000000

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:23 AM

34. it says PART of Obama care, which is what the bill is so fabulously referred to.

 

and 100% of the democrats voted for it.

the fight on it is long over. The Supreme Court said the law is the law and is legal.

And the funding in the bill is what is the law of the land.

NO RETREAT NO SURRENDER.

the days of arguing the bill long ago passed.

Teddy is smiling in heaven over HIS bill finally getting passed. Let's not make Teddy cry.
Especially as it is HIS seat forever that now Ms. Warren hopefully will occupy the next 18-24 years.

But remember, 100% of the Democrats passed it-as is.

no going along with Cantor or Boehner now, after President Obama's sweeping mandate landslide victory as it is NOT on the table. The table is closed.
ALL DEMOCRATS PASSED IT THEN. NO TO CHANGE NOW
(until a France like system with NO consumer hospital or doctor or pharma bills when sick, but pay for it when well, and again after cured, when well again. The single most humane health care on this planet as we know it.)

no bit by bit removal of what people akin to the civil rights movement in 1965,
achieved 3 years ago.
We don't want Jim Crow back, we don't want ZERO health care forward movement again
and we don't even want in 2012 any time wasted revisiting something where the door should have been shut 3 years ago, WHEN 100% OF THE DEMOCRATS signed onto it.

INCLUDING DENNIS KUCINICH.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:49 PM

4. What would be the effect of

' cutting the device tax? '

Do you know, or so eager to dump on Elizabeth Warren that you're willing to post a thread which does that???

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Response to elleng (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:15 AM

33. I am not on the side of Eric Cantor and John Boehner. NO health care is NOT on the table.

 

as Bing Crosby said so truthfully "Everybody has an angle".

and in the end, Elizabeth Warren is the same as the other Democrats in the Senate, or she is not on the same team.
She is not holier than they are.

To me, the issue itself matters not at all.The greater common good of going forward 10% with NO retreat is.

But like in abortion issue, the starting to say, well, ok, get rid of this that already was long ago argued, re argued and reargued again (and it was a bill that Dennis Kucinich himself fabulously backed in agreement to get 20 minutes of national airtime which he did), and if not mistaken Bernie Sanders backed it, as did all the Dems.
Nowadays a woman can't have her right to privacy in so many states, and once the door opened to a small cutback, it never stopped.

I don't know what is hard to understand that to keep winning, Democrats need unity.

And trying to tear down President Obama's signature legislation, historic legislation, one not seen since the legendary great LBJ was in office, is not unity.

NO CHANGES to the bill.

remember- IT IS NOT ON THE TABLE

in spite of what Eric Cantor and John Boehner said.

Which is what this change would do-give Cantor and Boehner what THEY and the tea party want.

I am NOT on that side. Are you on their side? Or President Obama?

There is a line in the sand.
I know which side of the line I am on.

NO TO ANY CHANGE ON THE SINGLE GREATEST FORWARD MOVEMENT ON HEALTHCARE IN 50 YEARS.

Change anything else in the deficit talks, it won't bother me, but do NOT change this great health care bill, unless there is a France like health care system put in place
(with NO doctor or hospital bills, when one is sick, they get treated and well, and they pay into the system prior and after. Same with doctors, same with all the great people of France.)

And let's stop idolizing the holier than though who as found here, are just another politician, and we need to remember that it took much compromise for FDR and for Lincoln and for LBJ to ram through the policies needed. None got 100% without giving something up.
Giving a little to get 10% is sure worth more than getting nothing while reaching for 100%.

(meaning boffo to Lincoln for the 13th, Boffo to LBJ for the civil rights/voting rights, Boffo to Obama for the healthcare bill.)

AND NO TO ANY CHANGE WHATSOEVER to appease Boehner or Cantor.

and yes to Susan Rice as SOS and now I am not so sure I would back Ms. Warren for that committe her fans want her on quite yet.
remember, she is out of 100, in senority, just about 94 or 98 out of 100. It will take years to move up the ranks, and I do hope she serves in the senate long enough to become one of the top 10. (which is why I hope against hope Sen.Kerry don't leave. We need both of them in the senate leading the way.
But Ms. Warren should look to Ted Kennedy and his signature issue, which thank God and Ted Kennedy, got passed after 50 years of nothing before Teddy died.

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Response to elleng (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:28 AM

44. IRS FAQs -Medical Device Tax

Medical Device Excise Tax: Frequently Asked Questions
The following questions and answers provide general information on the medical device excise tax. For more detailed information see the proposed regulations issued on Feb. 3, 2012.
Q. What is the medical device excise tax?
A. The medical device excise tax is a tax on the sale of certain medical devices by the manufacturer, producer or importer of the device.
Q. When does the tax go into effect?
A. The tax applies to sales of taxable medical devices by the manufacturer or importer after December 31, 2012.

Q. How much is the tax?
A. The tax is 2.3-percent of the price for which the manufacturer or importer sells the taxable medical device.

Q. Who is responsible for reporting and paying the medical device excise tax?
A. The manufacturer or importer of a taxable medical device is responsible for reporting and paying the tax.

Q. Will individual consumers be subject to any reporting or recordkeeping requirements?
A. No action is required by individual consumers.

Q. What form will be used to report the medical device excise tax?
A. The medical device excise tax is a manufacturers excise tax. Manufacturers excise taxes are reported on Form 720, Quarterly Federal Excise Tax Return. See Chapters 11 and 12 of IRS Publication 510, Excise Taxes, for additional information on filing, deposits, and payments.

Q. I’m not familiar with manufacturers excise taxes. Where can I learn more?
A. For more information about manufacturers excise taxes in general, see Chapter 5 of IRS Publication 510, Excise Taxes.

Q. Has the IRS issued guidance on the medical device excise tax?
A. The IRS and the Treasury Department issued proposed regulations on February 3, 2012. The IRS and the Treasury Department welcome comments on the proposed regulations. Comments are due by May 7, 2012. The proposed regulations include instructions on how to submit comments. The IRS and the Treasury Department will take those comments into account before issuing final regulations.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Medical-Device-Excise-Tax:-Frequently-Asked-Questions

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:49 PM

5. She refers to the medical device tax

and if that tax revenue can be replaced elsewhere then I am all ears.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:49 PM

6. It's not a perfect piece of legislation, if that even exists.

I don't think Sen. (elect) Warren is going to screw us.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:50 PM

7. Pork. 100% pork. This is extremely bad. NO CUTTING OBAMA HEALTH PLAN at all.

 

a snip snip here
a snip snip there
and it's gone

50 years of long hard work, a plan backed by Ted Kennedy.

And parsing words don't cut it. But a snip snip here a snip snip there does.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:56 PM

10. What the hell are you talking about?

If Warren et. al. can come up with an acceptable alternative to the medical device tax, then it's all good.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:09 PM

14. The fight over this is OVER. PRESIDENT OBAMA WON. I don't side with Eric Cantor. Sorry.

 

why would anyone want to find an "acceptable alternative" to a tiny tax on an industry and side with Eric Cantor & the Repubs???.

I thought we were all for taxing the elite.

This industry is part of the ELITE.

(or is it only New York City people who work on Wall Street (which is code words anyhow for an industry that 99% of the people in work 9 to 5 and receive a regular days pay and are nowhere near rich).

One of our own should not be looking to side with Eric Cantor.

This reeks.

Even the US Supreme Court ruled the law is the law and that "Obama care" is the law.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:16 PM

15. I repeat: What in the hell are you talking about?

This industry includes a lot of high-tech start-ups, in addition to large corporations, and it's hitting them all alike. Now there may be some wisdom in the medical device tax, but as long as the revenue comes in (in an equitable manner), who gives a rip?

Thorazine is your friend...

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:54 PM

8. Looking for some more hidden posts?

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:02 PM

13. Don't spit in the soup. We've all got to eat. ... Lyndon Baines Johnson

 

from your own signature.

Once the health care plan is ruined, it will be gone.

To think one on "our side" would want this.

People should be consistent.

It shows something very clear.

This is going to be used as a wedge in a wedge issue.

(and again, this reeks of what Al Gore did unknowingly to Dukakis).

Need to stand unified.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:55 PM

9. Well....

This is about the Medical Device Tax, a 2.3% surcharge on implantable medical devices that's supposed to raise about $25 billion over ten years. Medical device manufacturers are, obviously, not thrilled with the idea, and Senators from several states that have significant medical device manufacturing have been opposed to it. Among those opposed are Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar (I guess that make a lot of medical devices in MN).

I have no idea what the complete consequences of the tax might be, but that would be why Warren has come out against the tax. Note that it doesn't mean she doesn't support ACA as a whole, just not this particular way of financing it.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:57 PM

20. Well, did we cut the same kind of slack for ...

senators protecting other types of industries in their states in the past? Say, Mary Landrieu protecting the oil industry in Louisiana or Joe Lieberman protecting the insurance industry in Connecticut? For the most part, we didn't.

I understand that senators from MA and MN feel they have to "protect" the medical device industries in their state--though I'm not sure what they're protecting this very wealthy business enterprise from. A 2.3% surcharge is not exactly onerous.

What we have here is an object lesson in the difference between being a progressive darling and being a senator: Elizabeth and Al and Amy are, in many ways, no different from any other politicians. And this is why we shouldn't build them up into saints: they'll break your heart if you do.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:36 AM

61. That's very true...

Al Franken may be a progressive, but as a politician, he needs to be looking out for the interest of constituents in his state. That being said, however, it sounds like his constituents are full of shit...

From Bloomberg (yes, Bloomberg) Taxing Medical Devices Will Keep the U.S. Healthy:

Every now and then, a groundswell of support pushes legislation ahead in Congress, often on the grounds that it would provide jobs, increase U.S. exports, stop companies from moving overseas and save small businesses. The members vote, the news media congratulate them for a rare show of bipartisanship, and some interest group walks off happily into the sunset.

That’s how the narrative is playing out for a rapidly advancing bill to repeal a 2.3 percent tax on the sale of medical devices. The tax, due to start in January, is part of President Barack Obama’s health-care reform law. The $116 billion medical-device industry, which makes everything from artificial limbs to advanced imaging equipment, is hoping to derail the tax with a classic lobbying and advertising campaign. It’s been very effective: The House could vote as early as Thursday to withdraw the tax. With several Democratic senators backing the measure, the Senate may follow suit.

It shouldn’t. Just about everything the medical-device industry says about the tax is either untrue or exaggerated. Lawmakers shouldn’t be so gullible, even when -- perhaps especially when -- industry lobbyists produce studies seeming to back their claims.


Link to full article

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:34 PM

76. Ah yes, that RIGHT WINGER, Al Franken!!!



This whole thread is just full of misinformation and nonsense.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 10:58 PM

11. The industry is valued at $100 billion. They can afford a small tax. Shielding the 1%???

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/why-elizabeth-warren-wants-to-repeal-part-of-obamacare/

But some Democrats, including Warren, a Democratic National Convention speaker, represent states that employ medical device workers and are concerned that the tax with hamper job growth in industry valued at over $100 billion in 2010, according to the Department of Commerce

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:48 PM

18. “Three changes in government policy are essential: ... repeal of the medical device tax". n/t

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:01 PM

12. Hysterical

Please get a grip.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:17 PM

16. People weren't so "hysterical" when Ted Stevens had a bridge to build. Pork is Pork I thought

 

this is the same thing but in reverse(instead of wanting something for their state, wanting it removed for their state).

Sheesh, are we suppose to read an article, but discount a part that is an inconvient truth?

I was not the one who posted the article putting Eric Cantor and the repubs down.
Which is a good thing to do (putting Eric and the repubs down).

But the Slate article is the one that published it,(a supposed left media company), and the line is there.

A simple google unveils this story in tens of thousands of headlines that come up in search.

It might just be a minor thing. BUT-

Unless we are suddenly getting France's best in the world health care system, there can be no retreat on any part of this.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:46 PM

17. Agreed. Nt

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 11:56 PM

19. Nobody, zero people ever, thought this was a perfect piece of legislation as written.

To take the view that it must never be changed would mean it can never be improved. That's not a progressive stance, IMHO.

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Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:13 AM

21. Eric Cantor gave that example for the case

 

that Boehner made for cuts to Obamacare being on the table and that Warren agreed with that cut.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:26 AM

22. Bing Crosby "aw come on, everybody's got an angle Miss Haynes"- "White Christmas"

 

My favorite movie about Christmas and Bing as Bob Wallace cynical as always nails it perfectly.

For all the people that think President Obama and his SOS cede too much.

(Also see:Lincoln the movie)

Holier than though is great when bloviating, but in the USA, that doesn't get things done.
(so it's not that I mind the pork for a state, it's those that are holier than though getting caught Pooh style with their fingers in the honey pot).

To remove even one thing, as we so vigorously fought against this past election, would be like a house of cards and then it would come tumbling down.

Until the whole thing is bettered by a system like France has, NO to any change.

That's where it started when they systematically started doing that to abortion.

BTW-that is what I like about Hillary. All her baggage is out there and vetted thoroughly.
100 times over. No surprises. I don't like surprises.

And I value loyalty. #1 trait is loyalty. Any division just is another vote for the other side.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:36 AM

23. That is an extremely narrow issue in this overall massive legislation

and what is unclear to me is when she said this. It could have easily been during the original negotiations, not exactly yesterday. I am not sure this really means anything, and it is too late and I am too tired to look up when she discussed this. Regardless, someone is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:49 AM

25. It's true it matters little and doesn't affect her as a senator.

 

and it would not matter if she were a senator for 18 years or 24 years.

but it does bring to mind fans pushing for an unvetted (nationally) person for 2016.

After all, it was that throwaway line by Al Gore in one of the debates that later indirectly derailed Mike Dukakis (ironic as that was 12 years later).

and also why democrats need to all stick together
because sure, Jeb or another repub is really going to clean up Wall Street or the bankers.

and those saying "fresh face needed" for 2016 well, sometimes the fresh face is really just the same as all the others anyhow.

Because that is the way real life works in America.

Where if you are from Mass, protecting a Mass firm is 100% okay.
But railing against a New York firm, is fair game for those not from New York.

Everyone has an angle, it is true.
Best not to be holier than thou if you are a politician. Too easy to find you are not.

(and if one says Obama or Hillary cedes to the other side, well, that is how it works.

But please admit that if Eric Cantor and John Boehner want something and democrats scream about it, but then find Elizabeth Warren wants the same thing, well it speaks volumes.
No matter why when where or how.

again, Lincoln showed that.
And Obama getting something no other president in 50 years has attained, even if its only 10% forward out of 100%, well 10% of something is indeed better than 100% of nothing.
And I don't want that 10% to go backward to nothing.







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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:40 AM

24. Why are you married to that particular tax? I'm okay with it but

am not in any way attached to it.

The tax that should be eliminated is the "Cadillac Tax", (you know the revenue stream Obama roasted McShame on and then stuck in himself) it is wrongheaded to be attacking quality coverage when the upward pressure of medical inflation is so hellish. Over time it will get awful bronze level for most of us, you know what we used to refer to as junk insurance.

I wish Warren or anybody supposedly representing US would get on that one instead of home industry but I guess money talks louder than anything in this country.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:53 AM

27. Post #20 has a good response that wasn't from me.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:50 AM

26. Bait, people

Don't feed it.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:03 AM

28. Seems that way, alci.

thanks

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:28 AM

30. But we'll need that money to invade Iran next week

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:06 AM

37. Oh, yeah.

There's a history there, especially anything having to do with Elizabeth Warren.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:57 AM

31. we don't particularly want to

make things hard for the medical device industry--as we don't want our pacemakers and hip replacements made cheaply with slave labor in some foreign country.

All we are looking to do is raise some revenue. If that can be done through a different tax-then why not?

People should always be looking to improve things. It doesn't mean that the entire law will be thrown out--just that that particular bit of revenue may be obtained in a different way.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 06:45 AM

35. She probably knows it won't go anywhere...

 

But she's throwing a bone to the people that just elected her... so she can at least say she tried.

That's politics in America. You're a representative of the area that elected you first and a representative of the country as a whole second.

I don't know why some have trouble grasping that concept.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:04 AM

36. You are trying way to hard in this thread.

Way to hard.

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Response to trumad (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:14 AM

39. for what? Everyone on this thread like me, has an angle.

 

Those that want "fresh" mean code words for not wanting what Barack Obama wants.

Those that like Barack Obama don't want fresh. But want continuation of moving forward

instead of bravado moving backwards.

And again, slate magazine ( a liberal one supposedly though I don't believe anything is democrat liberal out there at all) brought this to my attention.

We do want somethings old, somethings borrowed somethings new and espcially everything Blue.

the people hating New Yorkers and the people hating all people who work on wall street, when in fact 99.9% of all workers on "wall street" (whatever that means as most actually don't physically work on wall street at all, but in offices nationwide these days) are just 9 to 5 hard working hard sweating folks taking a normal NYC salary and remembering that NYC is expensive to reside in even if one lives outside it, the commute costs talk.

And remembring nationwide in any business that supplies it workers free or cheapie good insurance plans(those that only pay maybe a couple of hundred dollars a month instead of thousands if self-employed, or none if you can't afford it) are getting a helleva perk that as far as I can tell is free, tax wise(the difference between what they pay and what they wouldn't pay if they worked by themselves or in a company that doesnt, then have the audacity to whine about a small percentage uptick in costs for them, while greedily never thinking about those that pay in the thousands a month for theirs, with no other option on the table until now(2014) when this wonderful health plan kicks in.

It really is quite simple

and everybody does indeed have an angle.

But mine is continuing moving forward the next 8 years after President Obama is forced to leave office by term limits (boo hiss to the republicans for changing the rules to stop another Roosevelt from serving 4 terms.)
(Why not change the senate and house and governors nationwide to term limits?)

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #39)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:19 AM

41. You skipped that "sentence structure" class, didn't you?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:35 AM

46. If one is an Eliz. Warren fan, then one shouldn't be mad at not dotting the I's & crossing the T's

 

should one?

Consistency please(if you are a Eliz.Warren fan)

btw
I don't have million dollar suits composing nice, concise paragraphs perfectly alined and all that which I knew how to do on an old typewriter but don't even know tabs on computers if they exist at all.
IF you want to hire me a copyeditor, feel free long as I have right to read my words back
after the corporate suits write so ever nicely (and remember no emotion, don't let them see you smile).



(the above is what I tell the nra folks in my anti-gun posts on the pro-gun group of which I am obviously against guns). I don't have the biggest lobby group wiring me soundbytes for any response needed.

Just reel them off the top of my head as it appears.(Remember forward, no going back, that means straight off the keyboard with time for few edits.)

Consistency is the key

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Response to trumad (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:18 AM

40. Yeah. starting with the OH MY GOD! ELIZABETH WARREN IS A TRAITOR! headline.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:10 AM

38. Wow,

this is a dumb OP.



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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:27 AM

43. The battle lines are interesting

 


and the wheels on the bus go round and round

some buses go forward on round wheels
other buses have square wheels and remain stagnent or fall behind

but always

slow and steady wins the race

ask Lincoln, ask FDR, ask LBJ, ask Jimmy Carter ask Obama

Probably the greatest this country ever had it freedom of all kind wise was 1977-1978 to early 1979. (right up until AIDS stopped it all).

then it was backwards for most of the next 29 years while people attempted to deny what was good.

Now its forward again.

slow and steady wins the race

(like anyone halfway sane actually thought Eugene McCarthy, John Anderson, Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, George McGovern, etc. actually stood a chance of crossing the finishing line ahead.

btw-how do you think people got their jobs in the first place?
It took a Kennedy NOT to run in 2012 to have an opening.
IT took President Obama to actually give Ms. Warren a job in his cabinet, and when that didn't work, encouragement and lack of a serious challenger in the primary (not to mention his coat tails in the general).

Sheesh. (just like Bill Clinton helped the ensemble in 2012 yet was shunned in 2000.)
You don't shun assets. And you don't expect assets to do things in politics out of the kindness of their heart either. They do it to further the cause they are backing.

Much as I love Al Gore(the liberal Al Gore), not embracing Bill, who gave him the VP nod in the first place cost millions of votes.
Not embracing in past races past heroes(like Jimmy Carter) showed a party divided is a party without victory.
(which is why in 2016, Jeb will be back as nominee, because his name was shunned this time).
And I am not going to bring it up, but there is another name that is probably very important in this discussion, but one that will not be put on this thread and veer the thread to a different angle.(an angle, like everybody has who is in politics. None is 100% pure.I always think 1/2 the problem is thinking some are without realizing that compromise is what makes greatness)

Forward.
we know what was backward.
Never again(like my forefathers said).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:45 AM

50. Are you trying to

Sheesh. (just like Bill Clinton helped the ensemble in 2012 yet was shunned in 2000.)
You don't shun assets. And you don't expect assets to do things in politics out of the kindness of their heart either. They do it to further the cause they are backing.

Much as I love Al Gore(the liberal Al Gore), not embracing Bill, who gave him the VP nod in the first place cost millions of votes.


...clear the field: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021804810



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Response to ProSense (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:56 AM

52. everybody has an angle- Bing Crosby in White Christmas

 

same as those that are not me.

Everybody means Everybody.

Ted Stevens and Elizabeth Warren
Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul


"When the Jester sang for the king and queen in a coat he borrowed from James Dean
In a voice that came from you and me
Oh, and while the King was looking down the Jester stole his thorny crown
The courtroom was adjourned - no verdict was returned
And, while Lenin read a book on Marx the quartet practiced in the park, and...
We sang dirges in the dark the day the music died
(C) Don MCLean (American Pie)

I would say the day the music died was when FDR died
I would say the day the music died was when the Dems tossed LBJ overboard for a issue any president would have done and inevitably the weaker candidate lost
I would say the day the music died was when theree was that coup'd'etat against Jimmy Carter in 1980
etc.

there are not many opportunities in American history when the music lives.We are now in one of them.

and everyone has an angle as Bing Crosby(c) said in White Christmas (as the snow is falling outside my house this late November morning, beautiful as it is), reminding one that what Bing said in the lines written for him(by noted liberals btw), rings so true today.

and remember one side felt what Randy Newman so brilliantly satirized in his recnet song
"I'm Dreaming"(c) Randy Newman written about the 2012 election from the other sides point of view
and may Randy be enshrined this year in the rock and roll hall of fame, something long overdue.
you can listen on youtube

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:31 AM

45. Medical Device Excise Tax to Have a Significant Impact on Industry Profits in the New Year

The medical device excise tax, which was designed to support the Affordable Care Act, places a 2.3 percent levy on all sales of medical devices regardless if a company makes a profit or not. Despite not taking effect until January 1, 2013, many companies have already announced job cuts and delayed expansion plans in preparation for the tax.

"American already has the highest corporate tax rates in the world," AdvaMed senior executive vice president David Nexon told reporters today. "To load this additional burden on an industry which is so important to our economy and which is facing a strong international competitive pressure makes no sense at all; it flies in the face of everything tax reform is supposed to achieve."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/medical-device-excise-tax-significant-132000919.html

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:38 AM

47. It would seem in a multbillion dollar industry, this indeed is a good thing.(those pesky 1%ers, eh?)

 

funny how the very people Eliz. Warren derides in a different industry, don't meet the same standard thing here.

epic fail.

(and I don't really care about the issue, but the hypocricy that is right in plain site.)

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:44 AM

49. issue meaning that a politician is a hypocrite. Just that it needs to be transparently seen by all

 

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Response to trumad (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:06 AM

55. Agreed

The ones that operate by reductio ad absurdum are the most difficult to shitcan, since they appear on their surface to be making "Democratic" claims. By and largeg, they just make fools of themselves, and are eventually ignored, like this one should be.



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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #55)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:21 AM

57. Learn from democratic history which years we won, and which years we didn't

 

(and won means a SITTING PRESIDENT, not a theoretical win but not seated one, which in essence moved the causes back 100 fold.)

The jettising of LBJ, the jettising of Carter said it all.
(Same as the jettising of Al Gore after 2000 and Al's jettising of Bill Clinton during 2000, the jettising by Al Gore of Mike Dukakis indirectly), the jettising of Howard Dean, and the backbiting and jettising of John Kerry after he took over for Al Gore and Howard Dean.

and the realization, as Spielberg's Lincoln showed as to how America moves forward.

When it does, it ain't pretty, and it ain't perfect but its better than holier than thou losing and going backward like happened in 1968, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000 and 2004.

Politics is ugly, but ugly is beautiful when it's done correctly.

everything I write is imho of course.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:06 AM

54. I'd like to get rid of it, too.

I'd like to replace it with universal, not-for-profit health CARE.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #54)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:27 AM

60. The system the French have is perfect. Canada somewhat, UK somewhat. France perfect.

 

Federal Government run on something needed by all Americans everywhere is always best.
Why are premiums different in one state over another? People move around same person different rules?

also the wellness programs in France, the shorter workweek, more guaranteed vacation time, makes for a healthier and more well being for a person than the stressfilled 80 hour workweek

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:16 AM

56. Hilary Clinton? Sorry, just wanted to see if I could get your eyes to glaze over.

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Response to randome (Reply #56)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:23 AM

59. Hilary Swank,Hilary Duff but it's Hillary(with two L's same as in liberal like Saul Alinsky) Clinton

 

Remember Saul Alinsky? Saul was a good asset wasn't he? Not one to be derided as he was by the Rush Limbaugh faction.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:21 AM

58. as another duer so aptly put it, spidey senses are tingling

 

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:46 AM

62. Run in circles, Run in circles, Run in circles.

She's clearly a trojan horse.

We should have reelected Brown

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:54 AM

63. sitting senators need to stay in office in 2014, 2016 otherwise easier for repubs to takeover

 

ceding that seat back to the repubs would unfortunately make it easier in 2014-16 for the repubs to gain the senate back. Not likely but easier.
No democratic sitting senator should leave at this point

and Brown would be the most obvious choice to retake the seat, esp. as I saw Coaxley wants to try again.(OMG no)

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #63)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:03 AM

64. I hope Kerry stays put. I hope Warren stays put.

And I'm not the least bit concerned about Elizabeth Warren's actions.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:14 AM

65. This is a POLITICAL DISCUSSION BOARD. Discussions about policy aren't welcome here.

Also, enjoy your stay and other vaguely threatening bromides...

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Response to Romulox (Reply #65)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:39 AM

66. Yup. +5. this reminds me of another satorical wit elsewhere where I had 80,000+ posts.

 

that place taught me something important

that if you believe in breadcrumbs, the breadcrumbs tossed will lead you to where the breadcrumb tosser tosses them.

(much like Woodward only got the breadcrumbs tossed by Deep Throat in Watergate, and Bernstein was not part of that (yet, his name was on the rest of it) which always struck me as an oddity.

Learned never to follow breadcrumbs, and never to toss them myself.
besides, breadcrumbs are for fried food and that is bad for the arteries and blood pressure.
Been along time since I had by choice, fried food and even longer with breadcrumbs.
(also some have MSG in it, gotta be careful when cooking to look for them without additives, not that I use them).Gives one a big headache if one is prone to that.

(like Bob Woodward has given me over the years.)

(shout out to the late MrJim who I hope is smiling down at us after President Obama's historic reelection) best damn satorical wit I ever ran into anywhere.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #66)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:46 AM

67. You're not owed beer and travel money, by any chance? nt

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:33 AM

68. That's one of the lamest, most transparent unwarranted conservative attacks on a progressive

Democratic legislator I've ever seen here.

If you need a job writing obvious, shameless propaganda attacking progressives and progressive policy, the Third Way may be hiring!

Clue: President Obama is well aware that the ACA is not perfect, and he, like Senator Elect Warren, will be working to improve the ACA over the next 4 years.

Truly an epic fail.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:21 PM

71. ahem. This came from SLATE magazine which is a left wing thingy.It's not from a conservative.

 

read the other thread that was suppose to be bashing Boehner & the repubs, and the story was from SLATE.

SAME place Elliott Spitzer can be found.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #71)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:28 PM

75. The piece in Slate was not what I was referring to. However,





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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:49 AM

69. So, what's the payoff for her? And, will it be delivered in a paper bag?

"The government of my country snubs honest simplicity, but fondles artistic villainy, and I think I might have developed into a very capable pickpocket if I had remained in the public service a year or two." Mark Twain

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #69)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:30 PM

72. 18 years in the senate leading the liberals in passing the President's bills so she can sign them

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #72)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:41 PM

73. Warren 2016! n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #73)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:52 PM

74. while it won't be her, IMHO at least you realize it 100% will be a woman. History demands it.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:55 AM

70. I too often allow myself to get frustrated and angered...

I too often allow myself to get frustrated and angered not by a thing itself, but merely by my biased and quite imperfect extrapolations from it.

A sense of relief that I'm not the only one who does it... you're trying to quit too, yes? I'm using the Keep-My-Mouth-Shut-Until-I-Know-What-I'm-Talking-About method; and, while not the most effective method, it certainly prevents me from looking, sounding and talking like a complete donkey's ass.

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:12 PM

77. Wow, you're a frenetic little thing, aren't you?

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Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:29 AM

78. Followup: 17 Democrats (+Lieberman) call for delay in medical device tax

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #78)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:03 AM

79. Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal??? That one???

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #79)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:39 AM

80. It's a copy of the letter sent.

(I bypassed the WSJ article and linked straight to the letter).

Here's an NBC News article on the issue:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/11/15846903-democrats-seek-delay-in-one-obamacare-tax-increase?lite

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