How does a civllzed country go bugshit insane?

[Cyrano]

Many who were born in the 20th Century wondered this for years regarding one of Europe's most advanced countries.

Germany was not only socially advanced, but was perhaps one of the most scientifically advanced countries in Europe. My guess is that they led much of the world in citizens who were physicists, mathematicians, and every other branch of science.

Yet, by the 1930's and 1940's, they had turned into the most barbaric country in the world.

I was born at a time when learning history was still respected and permitted. I spent many years wondering what had happened to turn an educated country into such a bestial threat to the entire world.

I don't wonder anymore. America, one of the most highly educated, scientifically oriented, and creator of so much of the arts, could turn into a possible new and improved form of cruelty and self-destruction. How did this happen? The answer is, it was always there. All it needed was a match to ignite the ugliness of humanity that has always existed just below the surface.

Everyone here has watched that happen. Everyone here has seen a madman take control of the levers of power and abuse them. And now, everyone here is watching to see if this madman will, once again, be put into power by a minority of Americans.

Were this to happen, 20th Century Germany may be made to look somewhat benign. Think that can't come to be? I hope that history proves you right and that my opinions are treated as a false alarm.

Nonetheless, keep your passport up to date. And prepare yourself for total hell on Earth if He wins or steals the presidency

[róisín_dubh]

1. I'm so glad I left and my trip back in April will be my last until after the election.

And then if that monster is elected, I will make a short trip before the holidays and I'm not sure what I'll do after that. My family is still in the US and I worry for my young nieces and nephews.

[get the red out]

35. The RW Christians bought the Republican Party

Nixon gave them a receipt. I will get slammed for this but most religion is anti-woman at its core.

[LastDemocratInSC]

37. The Abrahamic religions are especially anti-women.

[efhmc]

2. To me it boils down to hatred and fear of women. With the RW in power, they are not shamed for it but proud.

Sadly, it is not only men but lots of women also.

[Ocelot II]

3. Germany was in tough shape after WWI, which they had lost badly.

There was a worldwide depression, and inflation in Germany was sky-high. Someone had to be blamed, and Hitler found his scapegoat in the Jews along with some other unpopular groups, especially Communists, Socialists and labor organizations. He was able to focus the people's upset and rage into a movement to Make Germany Great Again by getting rid of the "undesirable" people, followed by an attempt to take over the rest of Europe.

We are in much better shape than Germany was in the '20s and '30s, but Trump is trying to convince people that it's all terrible and getting rid of "undesirables" like immigrants and LGBTQ people and non-Christians would fix everything. Germany really was in bad shape and we are not, but it's the same idea: Tell people things are bad and need to be fixed by a strong man.

[Cyrano]

5. Interesting how quickly so many in a country in bad shape, and

a country in good shape will buy into "getting rid of LGBTQs," immigrants, non-Christians, and all other "undesirables." The conclusion to be drawn here seems to be that the social conditions of a nation are not related to the hatreds of its citizens.

[Ocelot II]

11. It does seem that way.

But TFG has convinced people that the US really is in terrible shape even though it isn’t, and that it can be “fixed” by eliminating people that ignorant people are already predisposed to dislike.

[Biophilic]

28. The country doesn't have to be in bad shape as long as enough people believe that it is.

[lindysalsagal]

4. Define civilized

I'm not joking. Maybe we're not nearly as civilized as we had assumed.

[Cyrano]

9. Carl Sagan believed that humanity is currently in its adolescence.

[cynical_idealist]

25. The best of us may be young adults,

but so many are infantile...

[Alice Kramden]

30. The veneer of civilization

Is very thin

[Funtatlaguy]

6. By allowing propaganda outlets to pose as legitimate news organizations.

Rush Limbaugh and his imitators.
Rupert Murdoch and all of his holdings.

[Turbineguy]

7. It watches Fox news for 30 years.

[Paladin]

34. Don't forget Rush Limbaugh's vile contribution.

Years and years, day after day, hours and hours of the vilest form of fascist lies, gobbled up by hordes of soft-headed haters. I'm so glad he's gone---but the damage he and his many imitators left behind is incalculable.

[jrthin]

36. This! is the real problem: right wing media outlets.

[Turbineguy]

39. If their ideas are so good

Last edited Fri Mar 8, 2024, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

why do they lie so much?

[jrthin]

40. They lie so much BECAUSE their ideas are no good. nt

[cilla4progress]

8. As a PoliSci undergrad I always knew and questioned this..

knowing as you say how "civilized" Germany was before WWII: why COULDN'T it happen here?

Exceptionalism schmexceptionalism.

One can only imagine who he will have arrested and thrown in jail on day one.

[mzmolly]

10. Fox 'news'

helps.

[Cyrano]

13. Fox "news" wouldn't exist if it' didn't have a receptive audience.

So what does that say about a vast portion of the American people?

The MSM, and the majority of America's newspapers, have been playing "bothsiderism" for decades. We now see where that leads.

Honest journalism has become a rare thing. So, if people can't consume news, they'll consume crap. Or, to be totally crude: If people can't ingest facts, they'll eat shit.

[Tickle]

16. you are 100% correct. Not that you needed me to say it. NT

[mzmolly]

17. The fact that they masquerade as news

is problematic. Those who watch, apparently trust them to be a source of truth.

[Kaleva]

22. Just a tiny percentage of adults watch Fox News

It's less then 5%. The percentage of adults who watch cable news is in the single digits

[mzmolly]

24. I'd be interested in your source.

eom

[Mossfern]

31. I stopped going to my gym

because they played Fox news on the TVs.

I hardly think they would change their policy if I asked
So.... all those on treadmills, ellipticals, stationary, bicycles, stair masters and recumbent bicycles were somewhat forced to watch it. I brought my Kindle.
How many bars have Fox news on their TVs?
It's not only those who chose to watch it in their homes.

[prodigitalson]

33. my planet fitness here in deep red east texas

replaced the tvs on the individual machines with a bank of like 12 giant tvs on the wall. back when they were on the machines they were usually on Fox Noise when I got there (of course I changed it.) but now with the big bank of tvs none are on fox, cnn or msnbc, cnbc etc. I wonder if its a corporate policy. If so I approve. now its espn, animal planet, telemundo, travel channel, fodd channel etc.

[GuppyGal]

12. Right? We have more information at our fingertips than ever before and yet 40% of the country are wet brains.nt

[Cyrano]

14. Too bad there's no vaccination for it. Do you think they'd take it?

[Kaleva]

21. People look for info that reinforces their world view

and are apt to reject that which challenges it.

I know one person who spends a great deal of time on YouTube who believes chem trails are real.

Another couple who do the same who believe Democrats worship the demon god Molock

[Act_of_Reparation]

15. By never having been civilized in the first place.

People today: HOW DID AMERICA GET SO BAD!!!

People in 1845: Slavery is pretty rad. Also, let's steal half of Mexico.

[area51]

18. No civilized country

makes ppl go into bankruptcy to get healthcare. Just sayin'.

[Kaleva]

19. Bring educated, you should know humans aren't rational creatures.

[pfitz59]

20. 40 years of Reaganomics

Faux News, Rush Limbaugh and insane Xian evangelicals. An entire generation raised listening to 'Libtard, Feminazi, Commie, Socialist, Pinko, Fag'. An orchestrated backlash to the roaring 60's and blazing 70's. A bunch of angry incels who missed 'The Sexual Revolution' and other exciting times. Throw in a strong streak of anti-intellectualism, innate Puritism and entrenched social stratification. The powder keg was ready to blow, and Trump lit the fuse.

[GenThePerservering]

23. "Keep your passport up to date" ?

Wut.

Americans are not exactly hot property anywhere else.

[maveric]

26. Shitty public school systems decimated by NCLB.

A whole generation of poorly/undereducated students now of voting ages.

[TygrBright]

27. We had help. Russian help. Yes it was there, they exploited it. n/t

[Dan]

29. There's this book I am reading, for the third time...

It’s a fiction, but there a section when a survivor of three death camps in five years (including Auschwitz) is asked what had he learned…
“Then he thought for a moment. there was one thing the experience had taught him. He said he’d learned that when millions of people, a whole political system, countless numbers of citizens who believed in God, said that they were going to kill you — just listen to them””.

[prodigitalson]

32. yeah I always wondered how Nazi Germany happened too

and now I know. I read a lot about it but when people who experienced the original version talked about things like "making people doubt reality itself" it was all just an abstraction that I could try to conceptualize. now, unfortunately I know exactly what they were talking about.

[Jedi Guy]

38. Because the sad truth is that "civilization" is a very thin veneer over human nature.

And human nature contains things like greed, selfishness, cruelty, hate, and all the other ills that are always with us to some extent. When civilization is in decent shape, those things are to a large degree suppressed, but when it isn't those ills bloom like poisonous flowers. This is true even when civilization is, by most metrics, in good shape but is perceived to be in bad shape.

Civilization in 1930s Germany was, by pretty much any objective metric, in rough shape. Hitler was clever enough to see this and he took advantage of it, with horrific results. Civilization in 2020s America is by no means in the same kind of shape, but Trump is still identifying and weaponizing the fears of his base, with the connivance of Fox News blowing everything way out of proportion.

That thin veneer of civilization is always just a few rubs of the thumb away from coming off, and the Hitlers and the Trumps of the world are very good at doing so. They speak to people's worst impulses, assure them that they're right to be afraid and it's okay to be angry and hateful towards the people who are responsible for that fear, and then they offer simple solutions to complex problems.

People like Trump have always been with us and, sadly, probably always will be.