Did Anonymous set up a firewall that prevented Rove from stealing the election?

[Taverner]

Pretty straightforward

35 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	19 (54%)
	No
	16 (46%)
	4 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[demwing]

1. This concept is like herpes

it never really goes away...

[randome]

17. Goddamned, you're right!

[Occulus]

46. Here's the issue I have.

Obama won, and won honestly.

Why are so many people denying the possibility that someone on our side kept the fuckers on the other side honest?

It's almost as if the coordinated efforts of the deniers (and it does appear coordinated and concerted from where I sit) are intended to make us feel less capable, even though we won.

[graham4anything]

2. Can't people realize PRESIDENT OBAMA WON. His voters voted. The other side lost. HONESTLY

some hacker did not help or hurt anyone.
that meme should stop. The rightwing would love an excuse.

[teddy51]

6. "The rightwing would love an excuse." For what? That the right wing ie: tried to steal another

election? Well they just fell short, and sorry but I believe that Anonymous may very well have had a hand in the out come. And good on them.

[BarackTheVote]

19. I agree. Obama won, we GOTV, and the other side HONESTLY lost.

Because something happened to stop the RWers from cheating, the election was as it should be. They said they'd be watching, and if they were, and they saw something fishy, and they could do something about it...

[sabrina 1]

22. Why couldn't realize that Bush won in 2000, his voters voted etc. etc.

Too bad Anonymous was not around in 2004 and 2000. But then we would be saying 'our voters voted' instead of 'they stole it'.

Let Rove prove Anonymous is lying.

[graham4anything]

25. I blame 2000 on Ralph Nader the traitor. NO Bush and Gore were not the same. But people believed it

without Nader, Gore won NH.
Didn't need Florida.
END OF STORY. It was Nader's fault (and Ron Paul's and the 3rd parties etc.)

[Democracyinkind]

55. No Nader would not have turned Florida for Gore thanks to a massive

vote-caging effort by Jeb.

Also, it wasn't just Florida in 2000. People forget what the Reps did in places like TN with TOTAL IMPUNITY.

[sabrina 1]

29. Yes, thanks to all the efforts of people on the ground who STOPPED

Republicans from stealing yet another election.

Are you an election fraud denier btw? I always found that to be very strange, those who denied the theft of elections in 2000 and 2004. Despite all the evidence there is one major supposed (note that word) 'liberal' blog who made it a bannable offense to even discuss it. And then they stole another one, in 2004. I always questioned the attempt to silence people on that forum. Seems it worked, but not for us.

Thankfully Dems took Election Fraud seriously this time. People were not about to be silenced once again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. One does not oppose the other, or negate it either

Really

As to Nader, I blame the supremes, five people, who stopped the count. We know Gore won...oh wait, you did not read that report released by a media consortium on Sept 11? I wonder why...

[AgingAmerican]

52. An excuse?

"They didn't let us cheat! That's cheating!"

[teddy51]

3. Of course we have no proof of this, but something certainly made Rove upset

on Fox news the night of the election.

[gravity]

7. Romney losing would have done it for Rove

and the thought of having to answer to a mob of angry billionaires.

[teddy51]

10. Nope, I think he got out Roved by someone or Anonymous. They gave him a warning prior

to the election that if he interfered, they would act.

[gravity]

26. He got out Roved by Obama, Plouffe and Axelrod

They ran a much better organized and focused campaign than Rove could ever pull off.

[graham4anything]

12. they were trying to win more house seats and did not want it called early. No need for a CT

just political logic.

besides, Rove wants Jeb to win, not the loser this time.

[BarackTheVote]

20. That's a hell of a lot of money to spend on someone you want to lose.

Sorry, your theory doesn't hold water.

[graham4anything]

21. The goal was to make Jeb look sane. Guess what, it has worked.

some criminal hacker's work wasn't needed.
President Obama won on his own accord, and Obama's real fans knew he would win reelection in 2008.

[sabrina 1]

24. I love these conspiracy theories. I mean to say they spent billions

to make Romney look bad so that Jeb would look sane by comparison?? Lol, that really is a funny conspiracy theory.

They did not need to spend anything if that was the goal.

Please and you call Anonymous' claims silly? At least Anon has a history of having done what they said they did and they have proven it a few times. But this CT you just came up with?? Got ANYTHING to back it up with?

[graham4anything]

27. hackers should be in jail. end of story.

and its no CT. Just political common sense.

Ask me in 2016 when Jeb is the nominee (who will be defeated by Clinton, just like 1992).

To degrade Obama by thinking he needed help just helps the other side to say Obama is not legit.

[dflprincess]

32. How is saying that someone prevented the election from being stolen

"degrading Obama" or that he is not legit?

They aren't claiming they stole the election for the president they're saying they saw to it his votes were counted honestly.

After 2000 and 2004, plus all the voter suppression efforts that have gone on do you really think the Republicans are just so honest they wouldn't try to steal another one? And what's the bigger crime, election fraud or hacking?

I do not understand why Democrats want to pretend there's not such think as election fraud - anymore than I understand why LBJ and Everett Dirkson agreed to keep Nixon committing treason in 1968 was the best thing for the country. (Listen to the tape of Johnson & Dirkson discussing this, if you haven't heard about it.)

[BarackTheVote]

33. So you're saying that the white hats should have stepped down

and let Roves's people steal the election? The status quo is criminal, these modern day Robin Hoods are most welcome in my world!

F*ck YES Obama needed help--he needed my help, and your help, and the help of every single Democratic voter in this country! No president mounts the throne without the help of the masses! In this case, some watchdogs might have helped level the playing field so that the peoples' voices could be heard! Does NOTHING to tarnish Obama's legitimacy.

[graham4anything]

37. Rove wasn't stealing the election. Rove was getting slapped down by others who valued their future

the others at Fox did not let Rove continue his lies.

They slapped him down, which is why Rove had a meltdown. Not from stealing. From not being allowed free access of their airtime to perpetrate lies.

The others obviously realizing they need to have a life once foxcable is no longer into politics but another ESPN type station, need to have been seen as journalists and not propagandaists

So they told the truth for the first time in years and Rove was left dangling solo which he never expected.

It is as easy as that.

(see other post for NY Times article after election describing that situation that occured.
Instead of a conspiracy theory, or worrying about 2000, which was a once in a generation occurance (much like 1960 was reported to be), it was just the slapdown of Rove on air in real time (much like Anderson Cooper live in real time was the voice of Katrina that one day when Fox was sleeping, Rove had an operation and was in the hospital, Condie in NY buying boots
and the nation saw real, livetime that blacks were dying not rioting in New Orleans

The truth won out election night. When conscious of those reporters knowing the calling of Ohio was real, decided to no longer keep lying. Basically putting their current job in jeopardy if they weren't allowed to do that, vs. their long term future.

and since that night, Fox and Rush and all rightwing talk is now suspect. Ratings are falling rapidly and we might get lucky and Rupert will retire and his heirs and all will want to make money, not lies.

[sabrina 1]

34. How would helping someone to win by any stretch of even the most creative

imagination translate into 'degrading them'?? So in your mind, Obama is superman and needed no help to win this election?

You must hate all the lawyers and activists, and organizations that worked to stop Republicans from suppressing the vote. Because I hate to tell you, but had those tens of thousands of people NOT been aware of the history of Election Fraud, Obama would not have won this election.

He is a politician, that is all. He is not superman, he is not different or superior to any other decent US citizen. He wanted this job, he needed the people to help him get it, they did, end of story. And if Anon contributed to that massive effort, they are simply part of the total effort that prevented Republicans from keeping him from winning.

And as far as hackers going to jail, when Karl Rove goes to jail, talk to me again about jailing hackers. Some hackers work for the people and some work against the people. I'm more interested in jailing Rove than any hacker that stopped him from stealing another election. Is it a crime to stop a crime in action? I don't think so. Generally we reward people who stop crimes.

[graham4anything]

35. I love community activists that worked to secure MORE votes for a candidate

Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 05:09 AM - Edit history (1)

and personal hatred for Rove is meaningless as someone like him will never see a jail cell, so why waste money that could be used to say, keep SS as it is?

we don't need a foreign anonymous entity whose motives are not clear.(which is what Rupert Murdoch is for that matter).

where does one get that this hacker is a democrat? Seems anarchist is more like it, which means on the side of noone but himself like a court jester (ala Joker).

giving these people reason to raise their ego will bite back in the end.

the voters voted Obama in. NO CT there.

BTW, I reread a great article in the NY Times about how Fox in effect screwed Rove by not backing him election night. Now, I was at a friends as Sandy the hurricane meant no electricity at our place, and we watched MSNBC not Fox.
But this Times article says Rove was believing his own hype, then the others finally got a news conscious and slapped him down, and that is why he went ballistic

NOT BECAUSE HE WAS STEALING IT, because the Fox lies did not continue that night.
They knew Obama won, and the side of some of their conscious did not allow the lies to continue and they called Ohio over Rove's objections and he didn't knnow what hit him.

It wasn't a negative. It was a positive. By people looking at their own future resumes and deciding they couldn't take the lies. That their friends on MSNBC and elsewhere were reporting the truth, and Ohio could not be won by the losers

So they called Ohio for Obama as that was reality.

nothing more nothing less

(and look how former Fox people are attempting to get into other media and disavow their past. While I myself don't trust that Major Garrett, I just read he got a new job at I think CBS as their new white house correspondent.
Fox was just a job for him it appears.
Now he is going to CBS.

same with others at Fox news.

seems like the days of rightwing political talk stations is quickly coming to an end, and Fox might just end up another sports network soon.

You don't think those faux news reporters want to continue in a media job?

Comes a point that reality sets in.

That was election night.
Finally the people at the station had enough. And told the truth.

(so there never was a secret conspiracy plot to steal the election. All it was was the dirty player Rove finally being slapped down by others who valued their own future and called the truth.
Which is a good thing, because it means there was no doubt Obama won honestly.
So the nut jobs that believed Fox could not use their guns and bullets in the street protesting a theft.

If I can find that article from right after the election, online tomorrow, I shall post it.
I never got to read those papers til today due to Hurricane Sandy, they were just stacked up.

edit to add- Friday morning Nov. 23, 2012-409AM eastern savings time

I started a separate stand alone thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021871065

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/business/media/fox-newss-election-coverage-followed-journalistic-instincts.html?ref=mediaequation&_r=0

[KharmaTrain]

45. It Was The Moment The Bubble Hit Reality...

...and appears to have been a brief but crucial one.

I flipped over to see the tail end of the turdblossom meltdown and it appeared to me that was the moment the charade was over. For weeks Bullshit Mountain and hate radio had been feeding their sheeple bogus polls and assured them their "great white hope" was assured of victory. Rove had assured his $300 million dollar suckers...err benefactors...similar results and he just couldn't face the reality of the moment. He was hoping he could drag the game on a bit longer...hope to create the confusion he did with Florida in 2000, but this time the stunt didn't work. The math just wasn't going to fall in place and it was obvious that President Obama was going to win...even if he didn't take Ohio due to his strong showings in Wisconsin, Iowa and Pennsylvania. With those states off the board, there was no way Willard was going to win...thus Faux made the call.

The idea that some nefarious person or persons were responsible for President Obama winning Ohio is an insult to the thousands of hard working volunteers as well as those who stood in the long lines to make sure their vote counted. It was a triumph of united citizens over citizens united...and should be recognized as such.

Thank you for your post!

[sabrina 1]

49. Did you actually see what happened that night?

They all tried to stay with him, but the numbers on the screen were changing as he was speaking. Even they could not contradict what people were seeing with their own eyes.

He was like Baghdad Bob. It was over, everyone knew it, even Fox Hacks could not pretend anymore, they tried to go along with him, until they couldn't.

It was like watching someone who had planted a bomb, waiting for the explosion, it doesn't happen, people go check and come back and tell him 'there is no bomb'. He KNOWS there is because he ordered his hit man to plant it there. So he keeps screaming, 'wait, it is there, it's too early to say it isn't'. So they go look again. But there really is no bomb. He still can't believe it .... because it never failed before.

THAT'S what happened that night. It was not Fox Hacks suddenly being honest. It was Rove unable to believe what was actually happening.

[graham4anything]

56. Here is the article from the NY Times on what really happened w/Karl Rove election night

I started a separate stand alone thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021871065

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/business/media/fox-newss-election-coverage-followed-journalistic-instincts.html?ref=mediaequation&_r=0

[longship]

4. The zombies are gonna get us all!!!!

Quick!! Let's all run around like it's all collapsing before us!

Help!!! Help!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!

Let me set my hair on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

[HappyMe]

5. Mine's already on fire!

[SidDithers]

8. That's an awesome animated gif...

I stole it as soon as I saw it

Sid

[Taverner]

9. I'll throw my 2 cents in...

Plausible, yes. Reasonable doubt on the other hand, definitely.

But we are not dealing with a binary answer - so I would vote 'Not enough information' at this point.

Despite some being sick of this, I think it's a worthwhile question.

If true - good on them.

But if they really did it, expect some evidence of Rove's malfeasance to pop up. They did kinda promise that.

[xfundy]

11. I don't care.

But the machines are hackable, and if this construct makes cons question the voting machines and demand the return to paper votes, as many of us have done, perhaps we can get rid of them and back to accountable votes in this country.

Machines out. Money out of politics. No lobbyists. No Gerrymandering.

Back to the seldom fulfilled, but still promised, promise of America.

[graham4anything]

13. Jefferson wrote all men are created equal, yet he owned and abused slaves. It never was the way it

is fabled to have been.

and of course all "men" forgot about women didn't they?

Why would anyone want a fabled foreigner to supposedly have won the election?

V was just a movie.

[teddy51]

15. Hey, if someone on the right like Rove thinks he and his consortium are the only one's

that can tap into electronic voting machines, then he is deluded.

Welcome aboard Anonymous, and make these suckers pay the price if that's what they want to get down to.

[Tx4obama]

14. Option missing from the polls is: Maybe. n/t

[Tx4obama]

16. Thom Hartmann video regarding Anonymous & Rove, below

[WilliamPitt]

18. No

If Anonymous, or some other deep-cover online crew, actually saved Ohio from being stolen by Karl Rove and whatever nefarious minions he had at his beck and call, I'd think they'd offer more proof besides "Yeah, we did that" wrapped in tech terms of art. Every poll for more than two weeks had Obama winning Ohio...so the "We saved it" claim sans proof is the equivalent of me waking up Wednesday the 7th and saying (in a missive laden with cryptic gravity/mathematical references) that I kept the sun from rising in the West...while offering the Eastern sunrise as proof.

Obama won Ohio...therefore, they saved it. Right?

Um...

You'd think they'd let the authorities know, because proof like that would be, like, evidence of a felony worthy of jail time and stuff. If they were so invested in thwarting Rove that they actually jumped on that kind of hand grenade on election night...but did nothing afterward to bring him to justice...hmmm...

Yeah, this is me throwing down the gauntlet to these "cyber-sleuths." Put up or shut the fuck up...and for those of you who believed this story right off the bat, and have been forwarding it everywhere...take a second and think about whose agenda you're actually fulfilling.

Some people just like hits to their website and their YouTube vid...and some people just kinda suck.

^^^ This ^^^

'Night.

[RobertEarl]

23. You don't believe in cyber-crime?

And I take it you never turned yourself in for a crime, have you? Only an idiot would do that. Right?

No, all this ranting and raving and utter denial of the possibilities is what is sick. It is just stupid.

Jesus Christ.... Obama won the election. Just like Kerry did. Only this time......

[gravity]

31. Stopping an attempt to hack the election is not a crime

Seriously, if some kids were able to pull it off, they would be heroes and Rove would be tried for treason.

[Zorra]

54. I wouldn't think that at all.

I would think Anonymous knows enough about "the authorities" to not take such a huge risk.

But admittedly, I'm laughably technically challenged so I don't know anything about the magical mystical cyber whatevers that can be used by Anonymous hackers to deliver evidence to "the authorities" without any risk to anyone/everyone who acted as Anonymous.

It appears that publicly stating all over the internet, "Hey, guess what, officer? We have been watching this dude, and he is going to hack the Ohio election" or "Hey, bro ~ check it! We hacked out Rove's drones during the election! This what we did and how we did it." Does not warrant an investigation.

I guess I'm still really very disappointed and disillusioned that nothing at all was done about the elections of 2000 and 2004 being stolen, about Bush and Cheney not being prosecuted for war crimes, because no banksters were prosecuted for destroying the economy, etc. Maybe some people are immune to investigation, no matter what they do. Who knows, things like this don't seem to add up to truth, justice, and the American Way.

So I personally don't have much faith in "the authorities" to always do the right thing these days. Heck, someone could even wind up self-imprisoned in an Ecuadoran Embassy somewhere for getting caught exposing official and corporate corruption nowadays.

Should we, can we, trust "the authorities" to always do the right thing...


...or is that idea
just another message of dis illusion?

[MADem]

28. I think more than half of "Anonymous" is the FBI and Interpol.

They snare snot-nosed little hacker pirates, give them enough rope to hang themselves, and then round 'em up. They flip the good ones, and the beat goes on.

And people still cheerlead like it means something.

[Zorra]

42. Cool. Nice to think that it was the FBI that saved Ohio for us. nt

[MADem]

57. I think that Ohio thing is fiction--but I don't mind if people wanna believe it.

It's like Santa...it gives some folks a thrill in their otherwise humdrum lives. No harm in that, I suppose.

[InsultComicDog]

30. While I can't *completely* rule it out, it seems far too unlikely for me to answer anything but "no"

way too many unconnected dots and the evidence, if you even would call it that, is very hinky.

My best guess is that a lot of us are accepting this anonymous and unsourced story because it suits our preconceived notions. Not because there is any actual good reason to believe it.

To my mind there is maybe a 1% chance that there is anything to it, and that's rounding up.

[Marrah_G]

38. I don't know

[randome]

39. Everything about this rests on an assumption.

A1 - The anonymous email was sent by Anonymous. No evidence of that.
A2 - The email purports to explain what happened. The verbiage is gobbledegook that strings together a bunch of technical-sounding words that mean nothing to those who have technical knowledge.
A3 - Rove had some secret phantom software installed. No evidence of that.
A4 - Rove was actually prevented from using his phantom software. No evidence of that.

A5 - Some are making the assumption that Rove is now scared witless because of this anonymous email. No evidence of that.

When every single bit of 'evidence' rests on a pre-conceived assumption, it can safely be discarded.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Third choice, feasible

But without the kind of forensics needed, we truly cannot know.

[TDale313]

53. +1 n/t

[99Forever]

41. I lean toward thinking Anon did...

... but it may be otherwise. I don't do absolute without all of the facts.

[hexola]

43. SDP Alert! - "Seriously Dumb Poll"

Why hell are you asking us?

If we all say yes...does that mean he did?

[randome]

44. If we all wish really, really hard...

[Dash87]

47. No.

I'm almost certain that this is an urban myth, possibly started by someone trying to cash in on a reward for anyone who could prove that there was election tampering (don't quote me on this, though - I remember seeing that this is where that story generated from).

[Jack Rabbit]

48. A long as there is no third option (i.e., maybe), I have to pass

I don't know if the story is true, but it is plausible.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

50. No. And anyone with a rudimentary understanding of networking knows it's bullshit... nt

[Taverner]

58. I have a CCNA and it's not apparent as bs...

It could be done - it would take a lot of time and social engineering but it can be done.

[Michigan Alum]

51. I don't know. I never say anything is real or unreal until I get good evidence or see it myself.