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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:52 PM

 

OK - so when are we going to get rid of mascots that riddicule Native Amercians???

This has been going on too long. Stanford did it, other schools did it.

And in many cases, all it needs is a single letter change:

For example: The Atlanta Braves becomes The Atlanta Brave (the adjective)

Cleveland Indians become Cleveland Indies

Chicago Blackhawks become the Chicago Black Hawks (the bird)

It really shouldn't be that hard

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Reply OK - so when are we going to get rid of mascots that riddicule Native Amercians??? (Original post)
Taverner Nov 2012 OP
Flaxbee Nov 2012 #1
Taverner Nov 2012 #2
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #3
LP2K12 Nov 2012 #36
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #39
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #4
Taverner Nov 2012 #8
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #11
Taverner Nov 2012 #16
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #20
Marinedem Nov 2012 #25
Taverner Nov 2012 #26
Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #28
snooper2 Nov 2012 #37
AlexSatan Nov 2012 #30
PufPuf23 Nov 2012 #5
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #9
PufPuf23 Nov 2012 #18
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #6
Tree-Hugger Nov 2012 #38
lastlib Nov 2012 #7
hifiguy Nov 2012 #10
dipsydoodle Nov 2012 #12
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #35
lastlib Nov 2012 #13
Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #14
Taverner Nov 2012 #17
Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #21
Romulox Nov 2012 #42
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #15
TampaKeeper Nov 2012 #19
sylvi Nov 2012 #22
Taverner Nov 2012 #27
GoCubsGo Nov 2012 #23
kwassa Nov 2012 #24
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #29
AlexSatan Nov 2012 #31
whistler162 Nov 2012 #32
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #33
B2G Nov 2012 #34
Romulox Nov 2012 #40
loli phabay Nov 2012 #41

Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:56 PM

1. People in DC will go apeshit.

I completely agree with you.

But I also think that any company or team that uses an animal as their mascot MUST contribute toward preservation of that animal.

Save Your Logo (a French site, translated here):

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.saveyourlogo.org/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsave%2Byour%2Blogo%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D900&sa=X&ei=xx6gUO_kO-3G0AHnnoEI&ved=0CDoQ7gEwAA

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Response to Flaxbee (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:59 PM

2. Well yeah - otherwise they'll have a record like the Houston Passenger Pigeons

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:03 PM

3. Several years ago

people wanted Florida State University to change their nickname from "The Seminoles" but the Seminole tribe stepped in to say they have absolutely no problem with it.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:42 PM

36. We love...

our Seminole history in Florida. It's not about taking advantage of them.

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Response to LP2K12 (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:50 PM

39. Exactly!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:04 PM

4. as 2 parts American Indian (Cherokee and Creek) it doesn't bother me. You see it as ridicule, I see

it as honoring.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:10 PM

8. The Cleveland Indians logo isn't riddicule?

 

It's like the 'Juden Suess' for Native Americans!

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Response to Taverner (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:17 PM

11. so many really horrible things going on in this world - I just can not work up the energy to be

outraged over this.

Go work in the Soup Kitchen.

Go help build a house for Habitat for Humanity.

Go visit a Veteran today of all days.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:07 PM

16. I agree that in the grand scheme of things Maslow's heirarchy has to be the guide

 

But you have to admit that racist caricatures don't exactly make the targets feel welcome - and certainly sends out the message that they don't belong.


Minorities didn't choose to be minorities. A good deal of veterans did.


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Response to Taverner (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:59 PM

20. tangent, dude.

you went off on one.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:15 PM

25. Agreed 10x over.

 

Find a real issue, if you're feeling like an activist today.

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Response to Marinedem (Reply #25)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:30 PM

26. It's their name - and most Native Americans don't like it

 

You can go ahead and nit pick all you want, but words and images do, in fact, mean things

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Response to Taverner (Reply #26)


Response to Taverner (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:43 PM

37. As much as this ridicules cowboys



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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:48 AM

30. Bingo

 

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:04 PM

5. Over 40 years ago, I graduated high school on an Indian Reservation where team name and logo

were based upon Indian Warriors.

The logo and name is still the same.

On the other hand, "Black Sambo-style" Indian themes have pissed me off for at least the same period.

If Celtics are acceptable, so are Warriors and otherwise much ado about nothing ...

EXCEPT how presented (the Indian as a cartoon figure, the drunk Irishman).

Perhaps we should name sports teams after extinct cultures and animals only (Spartans, Condors(nearly and essentially so), DoDo's etc.)

There is much to be proud about in the Indian heritage. Its all in the presentation.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:15 PM

9. Go, Ducks!!

I love them as much for their name as for their awesome football-playing abilities.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:24 PM

18. UC Santa Cruz are the Banana Slugs but alas are not high in NCAA stature. nt

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:06 PM

6. just curious...

 

Do the Dallas Cowboys ridicule ranch working cattle farm employees?

Do the Seattle Seahawks ridicule the aforementioned bird?

Do the Philadelphia Eagles ridicule their bird?

Maybe the Atlanta Braves have a NA as a mascot because they were badass fighters? I don't see ridicule.

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Response to Polldancer2012 (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:45 PM

38. Uh yeah...

...the Philadelphia Eagles are a disgrace to the bird. Have you seen them play?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:09 PM

7. When we TAKE THE PROFIT OUT of it

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:17 PM

10. The Cleveland Indians will never change.

Nor should they. The nickname was adopted after Lewis Sockalexis, a Native American who played for the team, was killed by being struck in the head by a pitch. The team was literally renamed in his honor.

Redskins is a different issue entirely

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:21 PM

12. Is this a subject regarding which the tribes have actually taken issue. ?

.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:40 PM

35. The Seminoles have taken issue-

 

They fully support the use of their name at Florida state.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:22 PM

13. Lest anyone try to pick on the Kansas City Chiefs....

...let me clarify their story: They were named the "Chiefs" in honor of H. Roe Bartle, whose nickname was "Chief", when the team moved from Dallas to Kansas City. Bartle was mayor of KC when that move took place. In the early 1920's Bartle lived on the Wind River Reservation, studying the customs and traditions of the Arapaho tribe there. He became a "blood brother" to the Arapaho Chief's son, and was given the name of Lone Bear by that tribe. He came to Kansas City, and became Chief of the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, an organization to promote native American ways among youth. So the team nickname is not to mock the Native Americans, but to recognize an individual who promoted and respected the Native American culture.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:28 PM

14. I think you need to look up the word "ridicule" because it clearly doesn't mean what you think

Why do so many American sports teams have names that have some Native American reference? "Ridicule" is not the answer; it's more I think the historical association of Native Americans with qualities of ferocity, nobility, aggression, etc. (cf Vikings and Celtics.) Calling the team the Cleveland Indians is not really the same thing as having a mascot like Chief Wahoo (which is in fact a racist caricature).

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:09 PM

17. Ferocity...mmmmkay

 




Maybe we should create a team called the "Juden Seusse"?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:02 PM

21. Reading comprehension, fail

I specifically pointed out the Cleveland Indians *mascot* as a racist caricature; the team name itself? isn't.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:02 PM

42. The "intention" of the name is embodied in the racist caricature. That's why the owners

commissioned the racist caricature as the mascot of their team.

It wasn't all some horrible coincidence--the name and the caricature are meant to be reinforcing.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:30 PM

15. It is a racist practice and should be changed

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:25 PM

19. Don't even try to tell me

that the Washington redskins and their mocking "tomahawk chop" are supposed to somehow honor the Native American.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:06 PM

22. Because the Cleveland Original Peoples just doesn't have the same ring to it. nt

 

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Response to sylvi (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:31 PM

27. How about Cleveland Indies?

 

Put a hipster on their cap

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:10 PM

23. The man who founded the Chicago Blackhawks...

...named them after Chief Blackhawk because he admired Chief Blackhawk, not because he wanted to ridicule him or other Native Americans. And, BTW, their "mascot" that walks around in a costume IS a black hawk.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:12 PM

24. STATEMENT OF U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS ON THE USE OF NATIVE AMERICAN IMAGES AND NICKNAMES

http://www.usccr.gov/press/archives/2001/041601st.htm

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights calls for an end to the use of Native American images and team names by non-Native schools. The Commission deeply respects the rights of all Americans to freedom of expression under the First Amendment and in no way would attempt to prescribe how people can express themselves. However, the Commission believes that the use of Native American images and nicknames in school is insensitive and should be avoided. In addition, some Native American and civil rights advocates maintain that these mascots may violate anti-discrimination laws. These references, whether mascots and their performances, logos, or names, are disrespectful and offensive to American Indians and others who are offended by such stereotyping. They are particularly inappropriate and insensitive in light of the long history of forced assimilation that American Indian people have endured in this country.

Since the civil rights movement of the 1960s many overtly derogatory symbols and images offensive to African-Americans have been eliminated. However, many secondary schools, post-secondary institutions, and a number of professional sports teams continue to use Native American nicknames and imagery. Since the 1970s, American Indian leaders and organizations have vigorously voiced their opposition to these mascots and team names because they mock and trivialize Native American religion and culture.

It is particularly disturbing that Native American references are still to be found in educational institutions, whether elementary, secondary or post-secondary. Schools are places where diverse groups of people come together to learn not only the "Three Rs," but also how to interact respectfully with people from different cultures. The use of stereotypical images of Native Americans by educational institutions has the potential to create a racially hostile educational environment that may be intimidating to Indian students. American Indians have the lowest high school graduation rates in the nation and even lower college attendance and graduation rates. The perpetuation of harmful stereotypes may exacerbate these problems.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:09 PM

29. By chance I watched the History Channels show "the Men who built America".

JP Morgan, Nelson Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie, the three richest people in the world tried that shit during the first race between William Jennings Bryan and William McKinley. The put out the lie that if Bryan, who was a potential trust buster won, businesses would shut down. They won and became richer as workers became poorer. They did it a second time but manipulated Teddy Roosevelt into the VP spot. McKinley was assassinated and Ted Roosevelt took over and busted the shit out of the massive trusts, launching america on a course of unparalleled wealth.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:52 AM

31. So, instead, you want to ridicule

 

Brave people and Independents.

And that is better, how?

As others have pointed out, the names are meant to honor. Why would you name yourself after something you want to mock?

You see names such as tigers, bears, eagles. Why not slugs, mushrooms, or douchebags? Because people want to be associated with the fierce and strong.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:34 PM

32. When we get rid of the team that ridicules Scandinavians!

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:37 PM

33. How exactly does the Chicago Blackhawks "ridicule" native americans?

 

and how do you feel about the Florida State University Seminoles?

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:38 PM

34. "Ridicules'? Yeah, right.

Because these teams are intent at invoking laughter at themselves.

This particular argument totally confuses me. They name themselves after warriors who fought with nobility...and that's a bad thing. Stupid PC crap.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:57 PM

40. It is largely racist, imo. Especially Cleveland Indians and Washington Redskins.

Fans of both teams should demand better.

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Response to Taverner (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:57 PM

41. do you feel naming military helos is also ridiculing or something different.

 

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