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Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:40 AM

It's not just taxes that are impacted - "fiscal cliff" and the poor

I've been reading DU and it seems like a lot here think it's fine and dandy to let the Bush tax cuts expire.
I agree. It would be great if that was all that would happen.

Just so everyone will know ----

Cuts will also be made to:
Low income housing subsidies
cuts to many poverty programs
cut to programs for the working poor
Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit - set to expire
Extended unemployment benefits set to expire


Let's hope something can be worked out. I want to rich to pay more, and I don't mind paying more, but I really worry about the fragile people in this economy.

15 replies, 907 views

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:42 AM

1. expiration of extended unemployment benefits?

think so

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Response to cdsilv (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:43 AM

3. that's right... I forgot

was doing it from memory. I'll add that. Thanks

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:43 AM

2. Sometimes a picture is worth a 1,000 (or a 1,000,000) words:

 

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:47 AM

4. But it's not really a natural cliff...It's the edge of a pit dug by congress

to provide an opportunity for the politics of brinksmanship.

It's an edge that is avoided by raising the debt ceiling.

If they let the Bush tax cuts expire, and raise the debt ceiling,

the nation gets time to let the recovery grow the revenue stream.






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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:55 AM

6. Bingo. Gamesmanship at it's worst. America suffers at the hands of the one percenter's tools.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:57 AM

7. I understand all about how it's not a cliff, it's a slope

However, my concern is if it take a while to hammer out a deal, even a month for these people will be devastating.

It's easy for middle class people to pontificate " let the tax cuts expire".. it's not just tax cuts that will expire.
I also fear that some of these cuts to poverty programs will become permanent.

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Response to OKNancy (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:04 AM

10. It takes almost no time to just raise the debt ceiling...historically th was a bipartisan no-brainer

This is not a really even a slope.


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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:54 AM

5. The poor will be far better off with the fiscal cliff than anything the Republicans are offering.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:57 AM

8. how is that?

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Response to OKNancy (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:59 AM

9. I think he means

the Repugs want to slash spending on the poor far more than it would happen with sequester.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:14 AM

11. Exactly, thanks.

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:15 AM

12. Agree 100%

Everything you mentioned is correct, but I still think people underestimate the effect of the expiration of the tax cuts on low income workers.

Someone that makes $30,000/year is going to see an immediate "pay cut" of $11.54/week due to the expiration of the payroll tax holiday (which I agree should expire). In addition, FITW will impose another "pay cut" due to the reversion of the lowest bracket from 10% to 15% - a 50% increase in that bracket (up to $17,000 for married/joint filings). Even if their FITW is set correctly for their number of dependents, it could result in another "pay cut" of up to $11.54/week.

That's a few gallons of gas or a small amount of groceries, and the potential impact on these families worry me, as they need every dollar they bring home.

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:26 AM

13. I have argued against these "deals" and with each one made the more hostages are taken

We don't have to worry about the UI extensions, those hostages were already killed in the deal that "saved" them, one year of extension for two years of extending the cuts. Those people have already been forgotten about and written off and the newly unemployed in a higher level of crisis than when the original extension passed, are told to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and the old 99ers we were supposed to be helping are dead as far as any effort to help them and their families, hopefully they have also found their boot straps in good working order.

Then to make another deal with the devil and creating millions of more hostages is beyond my reckoning but at the time some of those most likely to wring hands about the hostages were talking how great a deal we had snookered the TeaPubliKlans into and that the cuts would be no big deal and pretending we had the big hostage, military cuts.

Bullshit, I said let them kill the hostages when I was one because I expected more hostages would be under threat and a deal will create even more the next round without any increased benefit in exchange.

Even the dimmest bulbs cast enough light to see this pattern, or would if they would be honest rather than playing with game theory and personality cults.

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Response to OKNancy (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:32 AM

14. It Still Has To Be Done, Ma'am

And the enemy left in no doubt whatever it will happen, and that it is they who will be forced to take the blame for any adverse consequences by the public.

The things you mention which are part of the tax code can be presented in a new bill as tax cuts for working people, and the rest proposed afresh as items which, if the enemy will not vote for them, will be occasions to rouse popular fury at the Republican House for its heartless cruelty.

It is essential to break the Republican House; nothing good can be achieved unless this is done.

'Over the cliff' is the most promising strategy available to achieve this.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:10 PM

15. OK... but I still worry

"There but for the grace of god*, go I"

*circumstance

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