The E Jean Carroll case...a tragic, shameful litmus test for the soul of America

[Miles Archer]

"IF" Trump is found guilty at this trial, there will be no prison time...being a civil case...but the word "RAPIST" would be permanently and indelibly stamped on his resume, along with "one-term, twice-impeached, former president."

I HAVE TO WONDER if Trump supporters have mothers, wives, sisters...I wonder if they have any female presence in their lives. If they do, how can they cheer Trump through this? If he loses this trial, how the hell would they be able to turn their heads the other way and chant "four more years?"

BUT...what this trial WILL provide, whether we want it or not, is a clear picture of the morals and values and ethics of the people who condemn him / write him off, versus the people who simply screw on their red hats a little tighter.

Trump fans have been presented with adultery, tax fraud, The Washington Post documenting 30,573 "lies or falsehoods over 4 years, non-stop bullying and name-calling, the January 6th attempt to overthrow our democracy, the $140 million (plus or minus) that taxpayers ponied up for his 3-day golf weekends, the Access Hollywood tape...

...these were all dismissed as Trump fans swooned over his non-existent, imaginary efforts to "make America great again."

So if he loses...

...what will it say about Americans who give him a pass and just shrug it off? Rape is assault, rape is dominating and humiliating another human being, rape is sickness and the most base, vile human behavior that any mentally imbalanced individual can exhibit.

What then?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Welcome back, Miles. . . . . nt

[Miles Archer]

4. Thank you Bernardo

[Effete Snob]

2. Nonsense

They will simply say the trial was rigged and the jury hated Trump.

People have no problem dismissing the outcomes of trials if it doesn’t fit their narrative.

That punk kid who went to Wisconsin to shoot people - did his acquittal mean anything to you?

Get real. The outcome of this proceeding isn’t going to mean jack shit to anyone either way.

[Miles Archer]

5. You've got a point.

I've always believed him to be "that guy" anyway. After the Access Hollywood tape, after he said that he needed to go backstage at his beauty pageants to watch young girls dressing and undressing because, as the owner, he had to "inspect the merchandise"...I just assumed he was "that guy," which was the basis of my disgust for him.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. Trumpanzees are shifting their focus from "meh" to "nobody's been persecuted like him!"

... "Nobody has been persecuted so much as he has, since Jesus Christ! And maybe before! They have nothing on him, but he's in the way of the Deep State! He sacrificed his fortune for us! We have to send him more money!"

[Walleye]

6. Rape is being used as a weapon of war by the Russians, who loves Putin?

[Irish_Dem]

7. Th GOP loves Putin.

They defend him and what he does.

[Walleye]

10. I don't think all Republicans are rapists certainly, but it seems they will tolerate

At least this rapist and support him and send him money. So I assume they approve of rape

[BeerBarrelPolka]

11. I

I can only comment on the republicans I know and have talked to. None of them believe trump raped anybody.

[Walleye]

19. Well I guess denial is one way to deal with it, some deny that anybody ever gets raped

[Irish_Dem]

12. From the beginning, the MAGAs approved of Trump crimes.

Trump said himself that people don't want to vote for someone stupid enough to pay taxes.

The Magas knew Trump grabbed women and did whatever.

The Magas admire this.

[Walleye]

18. Yes. They wish they could do it themselves

[Irish_Dem]

27. Yes exactly.

[Miles Archer]

14. I'll play the Geddy Lee card here.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Rape, for me, is a black and white thing. You can't be "indifferent" to it, you can't say "Well, sure, he's a rapist, but we need the votes."

You condemn it or you accept it, and I rarely see Republicans condemning rape.

[Walleye]

17. Exactly!

[spooky3]

24. Some of them are rapists themselves. They see nothing wrong with it. Nt

[scarletlib]

8. As Hillary said--they are deplorable.

[dlk]

9. What does it say about Trump supporters when they openly support a known sexual predator?

Anti-woman bias runs very deep in America.

[Scrivener7]

13. This. If he is convicted, they will see it as a feature and not a bug.

He says and does what they want to say and do.

[Miles Archer]

15. ...and one of our deep societal flaws is that, in rape trials, it becomes "blame the victim."

Or in Trump's case, "She wasn't hot enough for me to rape." His actual words were "Not my type," but I think if you put it in the context of everything else he's said, his "defense" is that he couldn't have done it because she just wasn't hot enough. That's what we're dealing with here.

[Scrivener7]

16. Yes. Also, the fact that she is even bringing this action against him means she's probably

"mouthy" and if he did it, it was because she needed to be "put in her place."

It is hard to underestimate the hatred a segment of our society holds toward women and girls. Those are the thoughts they didn't, in the past, say out loud. But who knows, tfg has changed things a lot. Maybe they'll be saying the quiet part out loud on this one.

[Miles Archer]

20. But the hatred bothers me much less than the INDIFFERENCE.

I get the hatred...you're right. It's "palpable." The Lincoln Project put out a "Goodbye Tucker" video and there's one scene in it where he is CLEARLY dismissive, sarcastic, and confrontational with a female guest, and she's sitting there, sort of in stunned disbelief over his dickishness. And, if behind-the-scenes accounts are true, that's basically how he interacted with women.

But what bothers me MORE is that there will be people who will look at the E Jean Carroll situation and say "so what"...they may not say it, but that's their attitude. "IF" Trump is found guilty of sexual assault, there WILL be people thinking "What do I want for lunch today?"

[Scrivener7]

21. Yes. And then some of them will vote for him.

[ancianita]

23. So I say let's open up this gaping, bloody wound in the body politic. Get it out in the open air.

Fuck MAGATs delusional denial syndrome. They'll have to face it: their man is solely a victim of his own criminal predatory habits.

[Miles Archer]

28. IF Trump makes it throught the GOP Primary, Nov 2024 will be a back-alley knife fight

I'm not kidding, it will make 2020 look like a video for that Youngbloods song "Get Together."

And while I don't advocate Democrats climbing into the sewer and wallowing around in the waste with Republicans, I do not believe we can AFFORD to NOT constantly remind voters of WHO and WHAT Trump is.

We're going to need a balance. We cannot exclusively "take the high road." Voters are too viscerally motivated and intellectually incurious to respond to that. We have to find a mix between being who we are and who we want to be, with the fact that Trump WILL TURN every campaign speech into a filthy, unhinged WWE match. We need to counter that with something OTHER THAN 100% consistent and unyielding "good vibes."

If he loses this trial, we need to become comfortable with using the word "rapist" in conversations involving Trump. America deserves better.

[ancianita]

30. RE

We have to find a mix between being who we are and who we want to be, with the fact that Trump WILL TURN every campaign speech into a filthy, unhinged WWE match. We need to counter that with something OTHER THAN 100% consistent and unyielding "good vibes."

Two things:

1. Biden's campaign has the vision ready to go, with his real, actual accomplishments as its springboard;

2. Trump might be able, at any rally, to play up that he's a victim of the inevitable guilty verdicts he'll get from the sundry cases now against him. But most of his voters know that juries' verdicts are based on the preponderance of evidence of intent and crimes, and will not turn out in the numbers they did in 2020 when he still lost at the ballot box and in 64 courtrooms.

I admire your hard approach with messaging and work, and hope it happens. But you do also know that we still have the biggest young voter demographic who turned out for this party -- and it's growing -- and along with them, the 7 million who brought us to victory are still going to vote. You know this, Right? Where they vote is the most important to get to 270 and beyond.

[Miles Archer]

31. If we sustain the sense of urgency and what is at stake, we'll prevail

That's my only concern. I don't question the fact that we have the votes. I don't think the 7 million who helped send Trump back to Mar-a-Lago will fail us in 2024. I...and I'm sure many are on the same page with me...just hate the fact that we have to factor him into this conversation at all.

[ancianita]

32. Fine. I hear you. I also hate that this is a situation none of us wants.

But no matter how they bumble through their performance, we need to be seen as fighters who can think circles around them and act for the People.

[Miles Archer]

33. And that is 100% of the reason I came back to DU...

...after largely being absent since after the 2020 election.

[ancianita]

34. Glad you're back, Miles.

[Brenda]

22. Tucker and Lemon, both long term TV celebs

Both were fired (at least in part) for their long-term sexist behavior and language on screen and off. For years they kept their jobs after coworkers filed harassment papers. What does that tell you?

[Miles Archer]

29. IF Murdoch had gone STRAIGHT INTO "settlement mode"...

...Carlson would still be on the air. You can take that to the bank.

By insisting on a trial, by giving those depositions, his dirty laundry became public, and he needed a sacrificial lamb.

He DID NOT FIRE Carlson because he gave a RAT'S ASS about his behavior.

He fired him to do damage control on his brand, his cash cow.

That's what it tells me.

And what is on OUR SHOULDERS is to make as much of a consistent and LOUD noise as we can to encourage people to vote.

I know full well that my post is based in "In a better world, what would happen is..."

I know Trump will walk away from this without a mark and with every Republican chanting "four more years."

That's why WE have to put 100% of our energy into "get out the vote" efforts.

[dlk]

26. He's made bigotry great again

That’s the attraction, unfortunately.

[Beakybird]

25. Eloquent and professionally written.

I was looking for the link to Salon or Vanity Fair.
Hundreds of thousands should be reading this, not hundreds.

[Takket]

35. i hate to say it but......

the rethugs have so poisoned the well of politics that everyone just hates politicians regardless of the party. i think the rapist label will move the needle for some people, but only a few small number.