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Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:52 PM

We don't have a white voting problem. We have a southern, rural, white voting problem.

Barack Obama got 39% of the white vote on Tuesday.

While this seems low for those who don't follow politics, that number really isn't that bad. Democrats have fallen behind with white voters Nationally since 1964. In fact in 1992 Bill Clinton was elected President with only 38% of the white vote.
In 1984, Walter Mondale only had 36% of the white vote against Reagan. And most Democratic candidates over the last 20 years have ranged around 40-44% of the white vote Nationally. In 2008, Obama had 43% of the white vote, which for a democratic candidate, is about as good as you can do.


However its not that simple.

I went and pulled the Presidents % of the white vote for the New England states. Surprise! Surprise! He did very well.

White voters in the New England/Atlantic coastal states

Vermont
Obama 66%
Romney 33%

Massachusetts
Obama 57%
Romney 42%

Maine
Obama 57%
Romney 42%

New Hampshire
Obama 51%
Romney 47%

Connecticut
Obama 51%
Romney 48%

New York
Obama 48%
Romney 50%

New Jersey
Obama 43%
Romney 56%

Maryland
Obama 43%
Romney 56%

Pennsylvania
Obama 42%
Romney 57%

I could not find data for Rhode Island, Delaware or the District of Columbia.


I then went and pulled the exit poll data from 3 southern states.

White voters in the deep south:

Alabama
Obama 15%
Romney 84%

Mississippi
Obama 10%
Romney 89%

North Carolina
Obama 31%
Romney 68%

I could not find data for Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky and South Carolina. But you get the idea. I no longer view Virginia as a culturally southern state.



The truth is, Obama and the Democrats do just fine with white voters in almost any region of the country.

Here are some more examples

White voters midwest:

Wisconsin
Obama 48%
Romney 51%

Iowa
Obama 51%
Romney 47%

Minnesota
Obama 48%
Romney 49%

Illinois
Obama 46%
Romney 52%

Michigan
Obama 44%
Romney 54%

Indiana (As you can see, I didn't cherry pick the states!)
Obama 38%
Romney 60%

Ohio
Obama 41%
Romney 57%


And a state out west just to further the point.


White voters in the west:

Oregon
Obama 54%
Romney 44%



If you could take away the south, Obama probably would have had about 45% to 48% of the white vote on election day.

Our party does not have a problem with white voters. We have a problem with white southern and rural mountain voters.

Why can't the MSM get these facts right?


The difficulty is regional and cultural. Not necessarily racial.


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Reply We don't have a white voting problem. We have a southern, rural, white voting problem. (Original post)
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 OP
NMDemDist2 Nov 2012 #1
hollysmom Nov 2012 #2
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #5
redqueen Nov 2012 #3
yardwork Nov 2012 #33
BeyondGeography Nov 2012 #4
Lionessa Nov 2012 #8
Confusious Nov 2012 #52
Lionessa Nov 2012 #58
Confusious Nov 2012 #90
Lionessa Nov 2012 #104
geckosfeet Nov 2012 #6
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #11
woolldog Nov 2012 #94
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #97
woolldog Nov 2012 #98
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #99
Lionessa Nov 2012 #7
Fumesucker Nov 2012 #9
janx Nov 2012 #10
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #12
pipoman Nov 2012 #13
yardwork Nov 2012 #31
pipoman Nov 2012 #42
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #14
ananda Nov 2012 #15
cordelia Nov 2012 #35
pipoman Nov 2012 #43
cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #16
Bucky Nov 2012 #17
mnhtnbb Nov 2012 #18
XemaSab Nov 2012 #19
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #21
bvar22 Nov 2012 #20
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #22
uponit7771 Nov 2012 #25
Indpndnt Nov 2012 #32
ProfessionalLeftist Nov 2012 #39
bvar22 Nov 2012 #59
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #55
bvar22 Nov 2012 #57
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #62
bvar22 Nov 2012 #63
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #67
bvar22 Nov 2012 #69
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #70
bvar22 Nov 2012 #75
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #76
bvar22 Nov 2012 #84
Fawke Em Nov 2012 #66
mick063 Nov 2012 #23
n2doc Nov 2012 #24
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #26
Speck Tater Nov 2012 #27
MadrasT Nov 2012 #29
paparush Nov 2012 #28
bluestateguy Nov 2012 #30
cordelia Nov 2012 #36
yardwork Nov 2012 #34
JoeyT Nov 2012 #54
RainDog Nov 2012 #73
proverbialwisdom Nov 2012 #37
SCVDem Nov 2012 #38
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #47
applegrove Nov 2012 #40
amborin Nov 2012 #41
Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2012 #44
jp11 Nov 2012 #45
SpartanDem Nov 2012 #46
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #48
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #50
Tsiyu Nov 2012 #71
tabbycat31 Nov 2012 #93
Tsiyu Nov 2012 #105
JI7 Nov 2012 #53
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #56
PowerToThePeople Nov 2012 #72
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #78
PowerToThePeople Nov 2012 #86
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #92
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #100
truebluegreen Nov 2012 #107
Eerriicc36 Nov 2012 #49
mmonk Nov 2012 #51
justice1 Nov 2012 #60
reformist2 Nov 2012 #61
bvar22 Nov 2012 #74
reformist2 Nov 2012 #82
bvar22 Nov 2012 #83
mnhtnbb Nov 2012 #64
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #65
Tsiyu Nov 2012 #68
greenman3610 Nov 2012 #77
AgainsttheCrown Nov 2012 #88
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #79
bvar22 Nov 2012 #89
mzmolly Nov 2012 #80
former9thward Nov 2012 #81
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #87
former9thward Nov 2012 #91
flamingdem Nov 2012 #85
UnrepentantLiberal Nov 2012 #95
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #96
aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #102
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #106
Andy Stanton Nov 2012 #101
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #103
pstokely Nov 2012 #108

Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:55 PM

1. 'The difficulty is regional and cultural. Not necessarily racial.'

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:56 PM

2. Oh, don't look at tthe south only

Ihave neighbors that voted for Romnay and just don't get what a scum he is. They had no idea that he was lying, and don't really believe me when I tell them, they just nod their head, like - oh look the poor misguided dear is at it again - i.e. they tolerate me.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:00 PM

5. Unemployment is high. Times are tough. The other side is going to get votes.


The point is the only region in the country where the President had draconian low numbers was in the south. And because his numbers are so incredibly bad there, it drags the national numbers down. But when you break it down by region, the President didn't have a white voting problem.


The 39% national number is very misleading.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:56 PM

3. I'd like to see those same numbers broken out by sex. nt

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:58 PM

4. Well done

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:04 PM

8. Not really, because it still puts all the focus on white voters, rather than disenfranchised voters.

 

White southern voters are not the problem, the problem is that people of color and of poverty are having their votes restricted through various means.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:30 AM

52. The entire OP was about white voters

If he was talking about the entire electorate, then yes, he should address that.

There is no reason to address that in an OP about white voters, because it distracts from the point.

The point being, that white voters are almost 50/50 demo/repug.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #52)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:18 PM

58. I am focused on the terms "voting problems" which have little to do with white voters at all.

 

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #58)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:59 PM

90. It helps to focus on the entire sentence

That way, you understand the point of the OP, and aren't addressing something that has nothing to do with the OP.

Usually, doing that is called "threadjacking" And considered rude.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #90)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:49 PM

104. Look there may be a white voter problem, but there is not whilte voting problem.

 

I am looking at the whole thing and it is incorrect on at least one of two levels.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:00 PM

6. Agreed 100%. I would include some western states as well - Texas, Arizona, S Dakota as

states whose white folk voted primarily for R$.

Something of note, although it's significance eludes me, is that most of the northeastern states have fairly small black populations relative to those in the south and south west.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:07 PM

11. I pulled some more.



Montana
Obama 38%
Romney 59%

Arizona
Obama 32%
Romney 66%


The only place where you see the Presidents white support fall below 30% is in the deep south. And this just isn't an Obama problem. Kerry ran poorly in the deep south too (He was actually worse). Al Gore couldn't even win his home state of Tennessee.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:28 PM

94. You haven't mentioned Washington

and California.

Also I think it's worth breaking down these numbers further by gender. In California Obama won the white female vote. Same in Minnesota and Illinois I believe.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #94)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:57 PM

97. Here are the results.

White vote

Washington State
Obama 53%
Romney 46%

California
Obama 45%
Romney 53%


Obama won the white vote in Washington state. And he faired very well in California. It is only in the southern states that you see draconian low numbers with regard to white support.


Here are the National breakdowns by race and gender.

Obama/Romney

White men 35 62
White women 42 56
Black men 87 11
Black women 96 3
Latino men 65 33
Latino women 76 23
All other races 66 31


I have heard it reported that Obama won outright single white women with a college degree. But I haven't found any exit polls that even breaks that down into a specific category.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Reply #97)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:59 PM

98. tks aaaaa

those are respectable numbers everywhere but the South.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #98)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:10 PM

99. The media is really mis-reporting the white vote issue. nt

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:02 PM

7. Regardless of how white voters vote(d); the problem exists for those of color or poverty.

 

And to what extent this alters the perception of outcomes (was it a slim victory or a landslide popularly) is worth finding out.

Additionally and more importantly, the disenfranchisement of anyone's vote should be stopped and legislation adopted to make voting appropriately easy for all voters.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:05 PM

9. Bless their hearts, the kindest thing we can do is disenfranchise them for a century or so

Perhaps they can learn their lesson that quickly.

It's the sun down here in the South, it just bakes the smart right out of white people.






































For the differently clued.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:07 PM

10. Absolutely!

This has been driving me crazy. Thanks for doing the research to confirm my suspicions. K&R

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Response to janx (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:10 PM

12. Agreed.



Just from what I have looked at. Obama won the battleground states of New Hampshire and Iowa entirely with the white vote. And he was basically even with the white vote in Wisconsin BEFORE one minority cast a vote.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:16 PM

13. The Democratic party has lost a lot

of white voters since they abandoned labor in this country...it has turned a lot of previously Democratic voters into free agents since both parties have abandoned them..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:06 PM

31. That doesn't explain the results in the south, which has no unions.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #31)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:32 PM

42. Unions or none, labor will vote in their interests

If Obama would have campaigned on re-writing or leaving NAFTA GATT and other trade agreements, denied the TPP without regulation requiring ongoing improvement in employee earning, working conditions and environmental regulation in all participating countries or some such..he would have gotten a lot more of the vote.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:23 PM

14. Also, working class "Ethnic" Whites tend to be very racist.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:25 PM

15. The white southern voters are scared and..

.. stuck in a Confederate past that no longer exists and cannot be recreated, as hard as they might try.

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Response to ananda (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:24 PM

35. Wrong

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Response to ananda (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:36 PM

43. Culture warriors are equally blind.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:31 PM

16. If losing white voters in NY, NJ, MD and PA is 'very well'...

then I'd hate to see merely 'well'

The problem is white voters in non-Southern states.

White voters in Southern states are only a problem if one is trying to win an election unanimously.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:33 PM

17. on the other hand, THEY have an *American* voting problem.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:34 PM

18. This is true in NC. Obama won much higher percentage of white vote in well educated, urban counties

in NC.

You can see the NC map of blue/red counties: click on map

http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/42923/111532/Web01/en/summary.html



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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:36 PM

19. My American history prof (who was from teh South)

said "In the South, black people can get close as long as they don't get too big. In the north they can get big as long as they don't get too close."

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:29 PM

21. That's true. I was once told that...



In the south they love minorities as a person but hate them as a group. And in the north they hate minorities as a person but love them as a group.


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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:14 PM

20. There IS a SOLUTION!

The South is BEAUTIFUL,
and belongs to us ALL.
Many areas are BLUE, or on the cusp of going Blue.
Instead of smugly pointing fingers from a lofty perch,
MOVE to The South.
Claim YOUR piece,
and help us change The South.

The benefits for YOU:
*Low Cost of Living

*LOW Winter Energy Consumption

*Never shovel snow again!

*Long Growing Season

*Pristine, Inexpensive, Non-Toxic Land

*Abundant Clean Water

*LOW Property Taxes

*Clean Rivers (You can actually EAT the fish you catch!)

*The Opportunity to become a Producer instead of a Consumer.

*Radically reduce YOUR Carbon Footprint

*Your BLUE vote weighs MORE

*The Peace of Mind knowing you are Making a Difference instead of just bitching!


...but whatever you do,
do NOT move to the Ouachita Mountains of West Central Arkansas.


---bvar22 & Starkraven
helping turn The South Blue!


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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM

22. +1 nt

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:43 PM

25. +1!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:06 PM

32. Very well said.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:02 PM

39. Not true in NC

With a new gov who is a former employee of Duke/Progress energy and a HUGE fan of filthy coal, oil drilling and fracking, our power/utility bills are going to go UP UP UP and our water and natural environment is set for unmitigated destruction and pollution.

There is ice and snow here sometimes.

As for pristine non-toxic land or clean water. Well...not if Duke Energy has anything to say about it. And they have EVERYTHING to say about it. They now RUN this state via their new governor. The state has been literally handed to Duke / Progress for them to do with it as they wish. It's not a good situation.

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Response to ProfessionalLeftist (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:28 PM

59. I think you missed the point of my post.

Instead of Hating the South and Blaming the South,
MOVE HERE and help us CHANGE it.
North Carolina would be one of the easiest to change since it is one of the Purplest.
You should be inviting Blue Democrats to move there.
The stuff I listed are just the Fringe benefits.





It snows here in Arkansas, but be honest,
how many times in the last ten years have you had to shovel your driveway before going to work,
or drive behind the Snow Plow in order to get there?


There ARE blighted areas in The South.
Cancer Corridor (Baton Rouge to New Orleans along the Mississippi) should be avoided.

I try to not get within 150 miles of Houston/Texas City/Beaumont,
and West Texas (Midland/Odessa) is not a happy place place for living things.

Any areas that are under the control of the Factory Food Industry, or areas downhill, down river, or downwind from the big Factory Farms should be avoided.

I'm sorry North Carolina is under attack from the Big Energy Corporations.
North Carolina is/was one of the most beautiful states I've ever traveled, from the Smokies to the Coast.
We considered the eastern flank of The Smokies when looking for a place to move to, but The Developers had already ruined much of it, and any decent, accessible land was out of our price range.


The point is, there ARE still pristine areas in The South where you can grow non-toxic non-GM food,
reduce YOUR Carbon Footprint,
live healthily & sustainably,
have access to abundant clean water and reasonably clean air,
eat the fish,
and drink the water that comes out of the ground.
Good, fertile land is CHEAP,
Winters are mild,
and the Cost of Living is LOW.




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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:21 AM

55. Um, low taxes at least in part

'cause the red states would rather sponge off the blue ones than pay their fair share.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #55)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:52 AM

57. Hey! You sound just like Mitt!

We really need to do something about those FreeLoader States!

They're just FULL of lazy people who want STUFF!!!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #57)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:22 PM

62. Sure, except I believe in everybody paying for stuff,

so everyone can have it. You know, like roads, fire departments, police, social security, food inspection and safety, education, universal health care etc etc etc.

So, yeah, totally like Mitt.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #62)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:34 PM

63. And are YOU living in the USA...

...and voting FOR higher Taxes.

I am.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #63)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:49 PM

67. No I am not living in the USA

but I'm voting for higher taxes...and believe me, still paying them: on property, on income, on investments, etc. Unlike rMoney, I don't have a passel of accountants and tax dodges, and the government still insists on their cut WHERE EVER I am (while I get even less "stuff").

My point about the red states free-loading is based on an on-going "discussion" I got into with what I call "the bubbas of the world": they were always bragging about what a great place for business the South is: low taxes, low wages, low regs, etc. In short, the close equivalent of out-sourcing, but within our borders. They get a disproportionate amount from the federal government (i.e. blue states) so they can continue these practices.

BTW, we left the US several years ago because we weren't prepared to go bankrupt for a health condition (which I had), and because the construction business was bust, and because we were lucky enough to be able to do it (yes--LUCK). If--when--conditions improve, we'll be back...although it might take single-payer in our state of residence to do it.

Satisfied?

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #67)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:58 PM

69. You obviously missed the entire point of my post,


...which IS, Come here and help CHANGE it
instead of just whining & bitching from the sidelines (or Mexico).

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:06 PM

70. If you think justified criticism is whining and bitching

you have more problems than living in a red state. And if you think that attitude will help convince me or anyone to move to your neighborhood think again.

Besides, I hate bugs and humidity. And I like snow, that's one of the things I miss.

Takes all kinds, doesn't it?

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #70)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:38 PM

75. If you aren't part of The Solution,

...then you are part of The Problem.

With your attitude, please do NOT come here.
We don't really need your kind of "help".

In 2005, my Wife and I decided to relocate.
We had an invitation from friends and ex-patriots in Canada and Costa Rica who would help facilitate our immigration.
We decided to stay in the USA and continue the fight.
In 2006, after a year of research, we relocated from Big Blue Minneapolis to the beautiful Ouachita Mountains of West Central, Arkansas
where we are registered Democrats,
active in the Democratic & Green Parties,
have good relations with our traditionally conservative neighbors,
and have given more than a few permission to change their family pattern and vote for the Democrat.
We are also active in Local Humanitarian Concerns.
We are both officers in the local Volunteer Fire Department and active FireFighters, and my wife is the ONLY Medical First Responder for 600 families.
We haven't regretted our decision to remain in the US and Fight the Good Fight for a single day.

Good Luck in Mexico.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #75)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:42 PM

76. Ah, platitudes and self-righteousness

looks like your neighbors are rubbing off on you!

Welcome to my ignore list.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #76)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:26 PM

84. I relish being on your Ignore List!

Now EVERYBODY except YOU can see my response!
Looks like IGNORING Unpleasant Realities is your forte.

Gentle Reminder:
YOU jumped in MY pond.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:43 PM

66. THIS!!!

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:31 PM

23. Our media is no longer based on reality

 

It is based on money.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:35 PM

24. It ain't just the south

Much as some people want to make it so. We have a national problem, ot a regional one


Adjusted to population



These maps use a color scale that ranges from red for 70% Republican or more, to blue for 70% Democrat or more. This is sort of practical, since there aren't many counties outside that range anyway, but to some extent it also obscures the true balance of red and blue.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:49 PM

26. And WOMEN

no matter whether they are "unmarried sluts" or not, no matter what their race or ethnicity. You cannot alienate over HALF THE POPULATION, which women ARE, and still expect to win. It is not the Messenger, but the MESSAGE! They still do not get it because they cannot see the forest for the trees.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:55 PM

27. The author of "Better Off Without 'Em" makes a strong case that

 

South Carolina is the tail that wags the whole Republican dog.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 PM

29. I am reading that now. Very interesting book. n/t

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:02 PM

28. Saw this on DU - Republican used to be a party...now it's a mental condition.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:04 PM

30. Exactly

If you take away the white South then we are doing OK.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:25 PM

36. Bigoted. Ignorant. Intolerant.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:20 PM

34. I think that we have a white Protestant evangelical right-wing church problem.

If you scan the maps in this post, which are fascinating, you can scroll down and see how "religiosity" overlaps closely with the red states. In another post I saw that 50% of Catholics voted for Obama, despite the bishops and priests telling their parishes to vote against the baby killer. However, Obama lost the Protestant vote by a significant margin. Subtract all the progressive churches in mainstream Protestant congregations, and that indicates that Obama probably lost close to 100% of the white right-wing fundamentalist evangelical Protestants. They are concentrated in the south and parts of the midwest. They go to church a couple of times a week and do what their preachers tell them to do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1782015

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:09 AM

54. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

Down here if you know someone's politics you can pretty much guess what church they go to. The opposite holds true too: If you know what church they go to you can guess their politics with almost a hundred percent certainty. If they don't go to any church or have any religion at all, there's about an 80% chance they're a liberal, 10% conservative, 10% indifferent.

For some reason we don't like to talk about the role religion plays in getting poor white southerners to vote against their economic interests.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:29 PM

73. here's some more data

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002185204

this post is about science, evolution, religion and voting.

The largest religious group in this south is a fundamentalist/evangelical version of Christianity. Romney got more votes from this bloc than he got from Mormons.

Since the states in the region won't spend money on education for its citizens, and since an educated population is highly indicative of more liberal political positions, and since, beyond politics, an education helps to improve people's lives...

...I wish we could see something like Bobby Kennedy's work to help improve lives in Appalachia.

This would benefit people of all races and backgrounds and would benefit the nation, as well.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:26 PM

37. If the election had been between Herman Cain and Bernie Sanders, race would be proven irrelevant.

IMO.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:36 PM

38. I'm getting too old for this shit!

I am tired of having to pay any due to southern and rural racists who happen to feel they are going to heaven!

Surprise! God is a Black Woman!

Going down?

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #38)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:14 PM

47. God is a Black Woman and She sounds like Barbara Jordan of Houston!

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:36 PM

40. I totally concur. There needs to be some serious

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:28 PM - Edit history (2)

thinking done on how anger in southern whites keeps them from accepting the losses they have faced in the last 150 years. So they have not gotten over race and white privilege. To do that you have to not be angry as a society, you have to grieve and be sad. The gop know this and they keep the south angry. Anger should be just a stage after a loss, not a permanent political connection to the world.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:19 PM

41. agree;

and, another way to look at it is that 56% of Obama voters were white.

interesting breakdown here:

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/race/president#exit-polls

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:37 PM

44. We have to build the dem vote from the grassroots up in the south

locally we have to be seen as doing something. The more Dems can get elected at the local and state level the better.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:41 PM

45. The MSM is lazy and really only interested in sensational items

that draw people's curiosity or darker nature for speculation and assumptions.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:04 PM

46. Thank you

this is the real story of the election.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:45 PM

48. I'd call it a rural voting problem

having spent most of my life in the intermountain west and Alaska. Not in big cities either.

It always amuses me to see the voting maps by county. In the rural states the counties are huge, and so the map looks overwhelmingly red--always pointed out by my repub relatives. Look at Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, North and South Dakota...hardly anyone lives there. Look at Colorado outside of the Denver/Boulder/Fort Collins corridor (I'd say the Front Range but Colo Springs is Focus on the Family Central). Everybody in Nevada lives in Vegas (OK, Reno too) and the Hispanics are with us or it'd be red too. Eastern Washington and Oregon, where relatively few people live? Gah.

That's the part of the country I'm all too familiar with, and it seems to me the problem is its rural nature 'cause it sure ain't in the South.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #48)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:23 AM

50. I agree with the rural dynamic.


And there are more rural areas on the south. Therefore it is more likely to be GOP.


God-Guns & Gays works well with this demographic.

I'm interested in theories why?

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Reply #50)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:11 PM

71. Dems do no outreach in rural area here in TN

As I said below, they want to be Republican Lite, not appeal to a bunch of hillbillies, hippies and minorities in rural areas.

Look at many of the people here on DU. They make fun of poor Southern Whites ( most of whom don't vote because they are just surviving or they have lost the right to vote or they don't believe either party cares for them ) and make no effort to understand them.

Dems want to be mainstream to a large degree, to appeal to middle class and upper middle class suburban and urban voters. They do not want to waste their time with poor rural whites. Not classy. Not sophisticated. Ignore those poor trailer dwellers and rural Hispanics and cheesy back-to-the-landers....they just bring down our "cool" image, dontcha know.

It's a lot more fun to mock or scapegoat than to reach out.




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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #71)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:04 PM

93. As a Democratic field director in a rural, southern district

The district bordered TN. Outreach is not easy. I or my staff has gone to Democratic County/City committee meetings throughout the district and the average age of the committee members is 70.

The way to change that is to join the local committees and start the outreach yourself. By definition, a campaign is a short-term entity that can only do so much. A county committee is not. Go to the meetings and encourage them to get more involved.

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Response to tabbycat31 (Reply #93)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:06 PM

105. We tried

left phone numbers, offered to volunteer, the works. Even followed up with phone calls. We ended up getting signs ourselves and putting them up independently.

Most of the people involved in this area are older women with big hair and older men, more conservative appearing, nice people, but seemingly afraid to open the doors to "others."

I'm not going to force my way in, sorry. And neither are most rural people. If you don't make an attempt to reach out, you lose the opportunity.

The party needs to stop trying to fool people in the South into thinking they're conservatives just to get one or two Republicans to move over. They need to admit who they are and what they stand for, and grow a goddamned backbone...NOT TO BE TAKEN as a slur at you, just the party.



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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #48)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:33 AM

53. Oregon and VErmont are Rural States where Most White Men voted for Obama

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Response to JI7 (Reply #53)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:29 AM

56. Only part of Oregon is rural;

not so much the eastern end. Vermont I don't know much about, although any state that can keep electing Bernie Sanders is clearly exceptional by any standard.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #48)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:17 PM

72. in urban places

on a daily basis you interact with a lot of people of varied backgrounds. Not as much in rural areas.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #72)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:46 PM

78. Yes, I agree

Remember how the Quitta from Wasilla reacted when she first when to college in Hawaii? She was "uncomfortable", left and ended up at the lily-white University of Idaho (I used to live in Idaho so I can talk like that about them).

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #78)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:50 PM

86. I have never heard "Quitta from Wasilla" before...

Google leads me to think it is "I can see Russia from my front porch" freekoid.

FYI - Latah county, Home of U of I, was one of only two blue counties in Idaho this cycle.

http://www.politico.com/2012-election/map/#/President/2012/ID

http://www.latah.id.us/elections/2012Gen/can-uo

There is a large "green" and "LGBT" population in the area. Well, relative to other parts of Idaho. It is a much more liberal environment than when Quitta was there.

How do I know this? U of I is my Alma mater.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #86)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:48 PM

92. Glad to hear Idaho is improving

and not surprised Latah County is one of the bluer areas--I lived in the other (Blaine County) for 25 years and watched Idaho slide from Pretty Reasonable (Republican but Cecil Andrus!) to Total Whack (Helen Chenoweth--gah).

Of course, that's what the country was doing at the same time...maybe we are finally going to see it all turn around. Feels like we've been hanging on by our fingernails since Bobby Kennedy died...

And yes the Quitta from Wasilla is none other than the freekoid (I like that) you mentioned.

Good luck to you, and to all of us!

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #48)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:18 PM

100. I grew up in a rural area that is solidly purple.

Rural areas of the Upper Midwest (I'm from the Fargo area) are pretty much in the middle politically, solidly purple, and rural areas in New England are blue. IMO that is not a coincidence, since Wisconsin and Minnesota were first settled by New Englanders, despite all the Germans and Scandinavians that came later, our political culture is solidly " New England yankee". The deep red rural areas of the lower Midwest and upper South were heavily settled by folks from Appalachia.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #100)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:29 PM

107. Good to know. I'm not sure what the heck is wrong

with the rural west--lack of cultural diversity or even exposure to same is definitely part of it, but there's a huge amount of anger at all liberals and city dwellers and folks from "California"--they seem to assume everybody they disagree with is from California.

St Ronnie of Raygun's Sagebrush Rebellion didn't help either (Government is the Problem!). This from a group of people who's way of life could not be supported without welfare mining, welfare ranching, welfare farming, government-built irrigation dams, (originally) government-subsidized railroads, not to mention the cavalry...without all of which the West would not have been Won...maybe that's it: the delusion that they are all rugged individualists Who Built That By Themselves....

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)


Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:26 AM

51. Yeah, I was traveling through the southern states of North Dakota, Montana,

Utah, and a few others years ago and was thinking the same thing.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:59 PM

60. Look in the mirror

I am constantly reading posts,that basically say to hell with anyone who lives in these areas, we don't need them. Yet are astounded, that they don't vote Democrat.

I will continue to preach, that every state is worth fighting for. We need to address the issue of why they are not voting for us. Living in a rural area, I have learned that most of the information working class people receive, concerning politics, is from their employers, who have their own interests at heart. They need leadership, and someone who shows them that they give a damn.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:02 PM

61. I'd separate Southern from Western voters. Rural western voters are truly anti-government.


Southern white voters, well, let's just say they have other reasons for why they vote the way they do...

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #61)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:30 PM

74. Yeah!

That is why all the White Power Skinhead and Aryan Nation bigot groups have their Headquarters in Idaho and Montana,
because they aren't racists.
Not to mention that these are legacy states from the Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing of the Native Americans.

Nope.
No Racists in Montana and Wyoming.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #74)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:04 PM

82. Wow, and I thought I was painting with a broad brush.


Not every Romney voter is a racist.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #82)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:24 PM

83. "Not every Romney voter is a racist."

But according to YOUR post above,
if they live in The South, they are.

Your original post WAS a Broad Brush.
I merely pointed that out.
Posting absolutely TRUE FACTS, like the HQ of Aryan Nation being located in Montana is NOT a broad brush.
Stating that the Western States are legacy states of Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide is not a "Broad Brush".
It isn't ANY kind of brush.
It IS a refutation of YOUR claim that somehow there is no or little racism in Western States.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:35 PM

64. And if you want to see a map of this problem in NC

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:42 PM

65. Here are the percentages of the white vote for Democratic candidates since 1980.

2012 Obama-39%
2008 Obama-43%
2004 Kerry-41%
2000 Gore-42%
1996 Clinton-43%
1992 Clinton-39%
1988 Dukakis-40%
1984 Mondale-35%
1980 Carter-36%


I love the media. They are acting like this is new. The truth is Obama's standing with white voters in 2012 is right in line with where democrats normally finish with white voters. In fact his percentage of white voters in 2012 is nearly identical to Bill Clinton in 1992. (Obama technically finished with a higher % of white voters than Clinton did in 1992 but the two are tied do to rounding.)

I just don't understand why the MSM is so ignorant with regard to our political system.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:52 PM

68. Sad but true


In many rural regions of the South, the preacher tells you whom to vote for, and these are Hell-fire-and-Damnation preachers who froth at the mouth and roll around on the choir risers and scream and terrorize their congregations into compliance. These voters are also racist to a large degree, another sin that their churches encourage.

Poor whites and minorities in the South are very disenfranchised from the process. The War on Drugs has helped, as has low quality schooling and no GOTV effort among poor rural whites.

The Democratic party programs in these states are aiming for Republican Lite status among the more affluent voters. They do not want poor whites, alternative lifestyle whites, minorities, etc. in the party, because they believe they can only "fool" voters into supporting Dems if they act like Republicans. There is NO outreach at all in the Southern Dem rural establishment.

I wonder if you studied turnout in rural areas if you would find it is lower than in other areas where Obama led the White vote.

And though I am a rural voter who chose Obama, I thank the rest of the country for having some sense. All we got in TN is a Supermajority Repuke legislature. Can't wait to see how we all suffer now....









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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:44 PM

77. Dems have fallen behind with whites since 1964. hmmm..what was a big issue in 1964????

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Response to greenman3610 (Reply #77)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:23 PM

88. +1

I don't think it's the Dems who have the problem...

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:48 PM

79. I can't understand white voters in places like West Virginia and Arkansas

Most of them are poor and need govt. assistance, yet they keep voting again and again against their own interests. Is the racism and homophobia so strong that they are willing to fuck themselves just to keep liberals out of office? Good grief.

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Response to Daniel537 (Reply #79)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:28 PM

89. Mostly it is from a lack of information and mistrust.

Fox News DOMINATES.
Since Howard Dean and the 50 state strategy was thrown away,
the Democratic Party spends ZERO money Getting the Message Out in Arkansas and The South in general,
and a TERRIBLE job of Framing the Debate and Marketing Democratic Values to the people that live here.

For instance:
In 2008, everyone I talked to was In Favor of Getting Medicare for Everyone,
but as soon as it was framed as a "Public Option", it became "Big Government Taking Over".

The Republicans do a GREAT job of marketing.
There is also some deep, ingrained Racism,
but that problem is not as bad with the younger people around here.
The Internet and Sat TV has loosened the almost absolute control once held by parents & Preachers.

The Democrats NEED to do a much better job explaining the Pocketbook Issues to Southerners in the South.
Almost everybody here thinks Obama raised their taxes simply because NOBODY is standing up and telling the Truth.

The next battle in The South will be getting our Republican State Governments to agree with the Medicaid Expansion,
but NOBODY is doing that here.
Medicaid Expansion means MONEY in the Pockets of a good percentage of Arkansas residents,
and it NEEDS to be explained in just those terms.




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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:51 PM

81. Your data does not prove your point.

Obama took the White vote in the far northeast but outside of that region lost it in every state but two that you list (OR and Iowa). I would not call OR representative of the "West".

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Response to former9thward (Reply #81)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:09 PM

87. Big difference betweek losing the white vote by 3 or 6 points

and losing it by 37 and 79.

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Response to Daniel537 (Reply #87)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:40 PM

91. No doubt.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:27 PM

85. NY? wtf? n/t

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #85)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:31 PM

95. Upstate NY.

 

Same thing in South Jersey and Eastern Washington and Oregon. Hicks will be hicks.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:41 PM

96. Even the 40/60's and the 50/50's are vexing to me.

What is the attraction that is absent other races in any significant way or alternatively what repels every other race but does so while not disturbing white folks to the same degree?

There is a substantial puzzle here of what is motivating such a differential, however you want to frame it and there seems to be emotional distress and/or defensiveness whenever it is mentioned.

I personally feel there is something substantial enough that it should be obvious that I am missing due to some blind spot.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #96)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:20 PM

102. I think the canary in the coal mine on this issue is the Asian vote.



Asians have skyrocketed in their support for Democrats.

Obama won 73% of the Asian vote on Tuesday. He scored a higher % of Asians than he did Hispanics.

Literally every minority group in the country, even those with a high income and good education (Asian Americans) have been driven from the GOP.


The Republican party sends bad messages to every sub group in the country except white males. Especially southern, rural white males.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Reply #102)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:18 PM

106. Yup, there is a "whats up with that" here for sure.

There is a difference and so stark that it must be quantifiable and once accounted for dealt with in what we can only hope would be productive and healing in a deep way.

I think the disconnect is important in a way that overcoming would be long term better for us all than overwhelming, if such a thing is reasonably plausible. I'm all for overwhelming if that is the only or best course.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:19 PM

101. Racism is the main reason

Not simply because Obama is black, but because Democrats are seen as more sympathetic to the needs of black Americans.

The fact is, since Nixon's Southern Strategy of 1968, white resentment has been one of the core principles of the Republican party. But the Repugs are not explicit about it most of the time and use the "dog whistle" technique, as seen so often in the latest election.

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:30 PM

103. People need to read "American Nations" by Collin Woodard.

http://www.colinwoodard.com/americannations.html

Here is the map of the various cultural zones of North America. Note the zone called "Greater Appalachia", that is where the Dems have the most trouble.

http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf

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Response to aaaaaa5a (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:32 PM

108. Missouri might be more of a culturally southern state than NC, or VA

and might increase as Mizzou gets more SEC wins

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