Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:24 PM

MadHound (34,179 posts)

Glenn Greenwald has seen the future, and it is depressingly familiar.

"Consider the very first controversial issue Obama is likely to manage, even before the glow of his victory dims, literally within the next couple of weeks. It is widely expected - including by liberals - that Obama intends (again) to pursue a so-called "Grand Bargain" with the GOP: a deficit- and debt-cutting agreement whereby the GOP agrees to some very modest tax increases on the rich in exchange for substantial cuts to entitlement programs such as social security and Medicare, the crown legislative jewels of American liberalism.

Indeed, Obama already sought in his first term to implement sizable cuts to those programs, but liberals were saved only by GOP recalcitrance to compromise on taxes. In light of their drubbing last night, they are likely to be marginally if not substantially more flexible, which means that such a deal is more possible than ever.

In other words, the political leader in whose triumph liberals are today ecstatically basking is likely to target their most cherished government policies within a matter of weeks, even days. With their newly minted power, will they have any ability, or even will, to stop him? If history is any indication, this is how this "fight" will proceed:"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/07/obama-progressives-left-entitlements

One hopes that things won't turn out this way, but given the track record of the past four years, it seems all to possible.

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128 replies	Author	Time	Post
Glenn Greenwald has seen the future, and it is depressingly familiar. (Original post)	MadHound	Nov 2012	OP
''One hopes that things won't turn out this way,...'''	Whisp	Nov 2012	#1
Any comment on the article itself, or are you just specializing in snark today? n/t	MadHound	Nov 2012	#3
What track record over the past 4 years? He hasn't touched SS & doesn't plan to.	JaneyVee	Nov 2012	#111
Yeah, but he's going to do it any day now ...	Summer Hathaway	Nov 2012	#125
Our little ray of sunshine! nt	msanthrope	Nov 2012	#30
I'm worried about this too.	alarimer	Nov 2012	#2
+1.	SammyWinstonJack	Nov 2012	#4
First of all it hasn't been 24 hours...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#5
So, do you want to see a rise in the retirement age,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#8
You go on and get on top of...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#24
So we should let our leaders do as they please with our money?	UnrepentantLiberal	Nov 2012	#40
Really? one day...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#57
This message was hidden by jury decision.	UnrepentantLiberal	Nov 2012	#121
That's it, kick back, enjoy.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#41
I don't need your permisson...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#62
LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh, you poor, poor baby, you're tired.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#67
My dad didn't come home from the	one_voice	Nov 2012	#70
And I was out there at the age of nine, fighting to get all the soldiers home,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#78
Did you read my post...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#96
Snark doesn't become you, Madhound.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#92
From one of those who were not	WinniSkipper	Nov 2012	#99
+++++	Whisp	Nov 2012	#37
Be even funnier when retirement age rises and SS is linked to a chained CPI.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#42
sure, I'm all for that and a bag of chips too!	Whisp	Nov 2012	#46
Unreal...	one_voice	Nov 2012	#64
Hey, there's only one way to get things done in this political system of ours,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#69
well, we all thank you so much for single handedly re-electing President Obama	Whisp	Nov 2012	#79
Nah. It's more like a shopping cart with a flat spot on one wheel.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#95
We intend to all be squeaky wheels and despite what a few on DU seem to think, we never	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#115
Technically it hasn't even been 24 hours	ZenLefty	Nov 2012	#7
Tell that to the Corporate Lobbyists who don't wait one minute before descending on	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#84
Sure, I'll tell them next time I bump into them at the grocery store.	ZenLefty	Nov 2012	#102
You don't have to bump into them, you could write an OP, eg, you could make some	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#108
Why does a libertarian, who defends racists and supports Citizens United & Gary Johnson.....	Tarheel_Dem	Nov 2012	#6
Aside from the critique of the messenger,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#10
"Aside" from the fact that "the messenger" sucks? I think that about covers it. No cred.	Tarheel_Dem	Nov 2012	#13
Ah, so you're one of those people who judges a book by its cover,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#15
tarheel didn't say he looked like a libertarian, but that he SUPPORTED gary johnson	JI7	Nov 2012	#21
And you know what, none of that addresses the issues that Greenwald brings up in this piece.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#29
How do you propose he force John Boehner to fully fund the Congressional Progressive	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#28
Umm, does that have anything to do with the issues brought up in the article?	MadHound	Nov 2012	#31
Sure. The Republicans still have significant power that has not been undone.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#36
If only GG were the only one I hated. So many people....So little time.	Tarheel_Dem	Nov 2012	#55
Yes, namely that you don't want to discuss issues,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#56
If by messenger, you mean GG? Then fuck "the messenger". Racist,.....	Tarheel_Dem	Nov 2012	#66
So the question remains,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#73
actually i would like to know if Glenn Greenwald is a libertarian on social programs	CreekDog	Nov 2012	#17
Only the ones that directly affect him personally.	Ikonoklast	Nov 2012	#51
"The parade of evils caused by illegal immigration is widely known, and it gets worse every day."	joshcryer	Nov 2012	#120
intentions matter, if this guy supported Gary Johnson he has no crediblity on this	JI7	Nov 2012	#19
So, ignore the name on the masthead,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#23
Yep. That's 100% fact. He thinks the Republicans will "work with Obama."	joshcryer	Nov 2012	#118
That was fast!	Scurrilous	Nov 2012	#9
Well, considering that the fight over the Grand Bargain is staring us in the face,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#12
Hope not	RobertEarl	Nov 2012	#11
Obama doesn't pass budgets--Congress does.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#25
I'm afraid that between Steps One and Two, there will be a Big Event....	Junkdrawer	Nov 2012	#14
I seriously doubt that will happen,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#16
Why? They've already announced that they want hard assets for more loans...	Junkdrawer	Nov 2012	#65
Oh please. What will China do with all its foreign exchange in U.S. $ if it does not	coalition_unwilling	Nov 2012	#116
K&R	woo me with science	Nov 2012	#18
I bask in nothing	WhoIsNumberNone	Nov 2012	#20
Shorter Glenn Greenwald: Republicans don't control the House if you close your eyes	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#22
So you honestly think that Obama and the Democrats don't have political capital now?	MadHound	Nov 2012	#26
Sure, they have capital. But capital is no replacement for institutional power. nt	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#33
So, since they have capital,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#34
Absolutely get the best deal possible. The real question is what kind of deal is possible.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#39
No, his oppenent is a Republican party in decline,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#44
Obama needs to get a better deal than last time.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#45
Actually, we don't.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#49
Republicans would rather see the military cuts than see taxes go up on the rich.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#50
That's where that political capital thing come in,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#52
Resoundingly rejected? We won 50-48.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#68
Let's talk 'real institutional power dynamics' here. The Senate	coalition_unwilling	Nov 2012	#122
Republicans lost seats in the House and the Senate and they lost the WH again.	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#43
Winning means that Boehner's negotiating with Obama instead of Romney.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#48
Republicans lost several of their most rabid anti-SS gang. They got the message and now is	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#71
The bully pulpit is no match for the Speaker's Gavel.	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#77
Actually we've seen, time and again, the power of the bully pulpit,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#81
He's never used it with any effectiveness. nt	geek tragedy	Nov 2012	#97
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1. Tell us how the President overrides that. nt	msanthrope	Nov 2012	#82
They were talking about the Grand Bargain coming down the pipe on...	Poll_Blind	Nov 2012	#27
I just can't imagine that scenario.	xfundy	Nov 2012	#32
Greenwald's agenda is to trash Obama and the Dems in hopes of driving folk towards libertarianism	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#35
Another one who wants to shoot the messenger.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#38
Not everything, that GG utters, is fact: GG spews propaganda, with a definite objective.	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#60
But the fact of the matter is that SS changes are on the bargaining table,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#63
And how about Major Unions and tons of Liberal Groups who agree with Greenwald?	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#54
GG started off as a corporate lawyer, made enough to retire, then claimed he had been a civil rights	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#72
That wasn't the question. What about the Unions and Bernie Sanders and all the Liberal	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#74
My position on GG is that he's full of shit	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#76
That wasn't the question. What is your opinion on the coalition being formed	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#93
Statement of AFSCME Pres. Lee Saunders on the 2012 Election	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#80
Exactly "the voters have given a mandate to protect vital programs like Medicare,	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#100
"depressingly familiar"	DemocratsForProgress	Nov 2012	#47
+1	AtomicKitten	Nov 2012	#53
Nailed it...nt	SidDithers	Nov 2012	#90
At this point in the festivities	Summer Hathaway	Nov 2012	#58
So, are you looking forward to a higher retirement age, and SS linked to a chained CPI?	MadHound	Nov 2012	#61
Greenwald sets up Straw Man, Madhound runs around the yard with it.	Ikonoklast	Nov 2012	#88
No, actually it is an approaching reality,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#89
Yeah, it's been an 'approaching reality'	Summer Hathaway	Nov 2012	#114
Projection, you haz it.	Ikonoklast	Nov 2012	#127
You've been playing that same tune	Summer Hathaway	Nov 2012	#103
You're way out of line. Obama's victory means nothing, NADA, zilch, if the	coalition_unwilling	Nov 2012	#123
And as soon as that happens	Summer Hathaway	Nov 2012	#124
Unsourced speculations as to what the Pres will do	FrenchieCat	Nov 2012	#59
He now plans an evil compromise with Rs that will force us to eat lil chilluns!	struggle4progress	Nov 2012	#75
Not, not eat little children,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#83
Greenwald eats chihuahuas!!! Where's PETA?	DevonRex	Nov 2012	#86
Greenwald. LOL...	SidDithers	Nov 2012	#85
This message was hidden by jury decision.	MadHound	Nov 2012	#87
Sure you did...	SidDithers	Nov 2012	#98
Isn't that special. Less than 24 hours after the election	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#91
Hey, I'm certain that Obama, Boehner, and every other politician in DC,	MadHound	Nov 2012	#94
Really, have you admonished the Corporate Lobbyists who have already descended on DC	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#101
"I think the President understands why he got our support "	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#104
Was that comment misdirected?	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#109
Sorry. I have reduced my number of replies in subthreads to just one from now on.	MineralMan	Nov 2012	#110
Lol, promises, promises!	sabrina 1	Nov 2012	#112
Obama haters are so November 5th	jpak	Nov 2012	#105
MadHound!!! Your thread before the election gave me hope, and this one gives me joy!! Well done! nt	msanthrope	Nov 2012	#106
I doubt he will do that. Progressives would leave the Democratic Party by the hundreds of thousands	Zorra	Nov 2012	#107
I allow the prognostications of libertarians, xenophobes and racists	LanternWaste	Nov 2012	#113
Glen Greenwald thinks the Republicans will work with the President.	joshcryer	Nov 2012	#117
Thanks for posting. You most definitely do not deserve the snarks and	coalition_unwilling	Nov 2012	#119
+1 Agreed.	Poll_Blind	Nov 2012	#126
Yep. Madhoud does not deserve these attacks nor does Glenn Greenwald	Luminous Animal	Nov 2012	#128

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:26 PM

Whisp (17,192 posts)

1. ''One hopes that things won't turn out this way,...'''

That's our MadHound, always full of hope!

Glenn Greenwald has seen the future, and it is depressingly familiar.

1. ''One hopes that things won't turn out this way,...'''

3. Any comment on the article itself, or are you just specializing in snark today? n/t

111. What track record over the past 4 years? He hasn't touched SS & doesn't plan to.

125. Yeah, but he's going to do it any day now ...

30. Our little ray of sunshine! nt

2. I'm worried about this too.

4. +1.

5. First of all it hasn't been 24 hours...

8. So, do you want to see a rise in the retirement age,

24. You go on and get on top of...

40. So we should let our leaders do as they please with our money?

57. Really? one day...

41. That's it, kick back, enjoy.

62. I don't need your permisson...

67. LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh, you poor, poor baby, you're tired.

70. My dad didn't come home from the

78. And I was out there at the age of nine, fighting to get all the soldiers home,

96. Did you read my post...

92. Snark doesn't become you, Madhound.

99. From one of those who were not

37. +++++

42. Be even funnier when retirement age rises and SS is linked to a chained CPI.

46. sure, I'm all for that and a bag of chips too!

64. Unreal...

69. Hey, there's only one way to get things done in this political system of ours,

79. well, we all thank you so much for single handedly re-electing President Obama

95. Nah. It's more like a shopping cart with a flat spot on one wheel.

115. We intend to all be squeaky wheels and despite what a few on DU seem to think, we never

7. Technically it hasn't even been 24 hours

84. Tell that to the Corporate Lobbyists who don't wait one minute before descending on

102. Sure, I'll tell them next time I bump into them at the grocery store.

108. You don't have to bump into them, you could write an OP, eg, you could make some

6. Why does a libertarian, who defends racists and supports Citizens United & Gary Johnson.....

10. Aside from the critique of the messenger,

13. "Aside" from the fact that "the messenger" sucks? I think that about covers it. No cred.

15. Ah, so you're one of those people who judges a book by its cover,

21. tarheel didn't say he looked like a libertarian, but that he SUPPORTED gary johnson

29. And you know what, none of that addresses the issues that Greenwald brings up in this piece.

28. How do you propose he force John Boehner to fully fund the Congressional Progressive

31. Umm, does that have anything to do with the issues brought up in the article?

36. Sure. The Republicans still have significant power that has not been undone.

55. If only GG were the only one I hated. So many people....So little time.

56. Yes, namely that you don't want to discuss issues,

66. If by messenger, you mean GG? Then fuck "the messenger". Racist,.....

73. So the question remains,

17. actually i would like to know if Glenn Greenwald is a libertarian on social programs

51. Only the ones that directly affect him personally.

120. "The parade of evils caused by illegal immigration is widely known, and it gets worse every day."

19. intentions matter, if this guy supported Gary Johnson he has no crediblity on this

23. So, ignore the name on the masthead,

118. Yep. That's 100% fact. He thinks the Republicans will "work with Obama."

9. That was fast!

12. Well, considering that the fight over the Grand Bargain is staring us in the face,

11. Hope not

25. Obama doesn't pass budgets--Congress does.

14. I'm afraid that between Steps One and Two, there will be a Big Event....

16. I seriously doubt that will happen,

65. Why? They've already announced that they want hard assets for more loans...

116. Oh please. What will China do with all its foreign exchange in U.S. $ if it does not

18. K&R

20. I bask in nothing

22. Shorter Glenn Greenwald: Republicans don't control the House if you close your eyes

26. So you honestly think that Obama and the Democrats don't have political capital now?

33. Sure, they have capital. But capital is no replacement for institutional power. nt

34. So, since they have capital,

39. Absolutely get the best deal possible. The real question is what kind of deal is possible.

44. No, his oppenent is a Republican party in decline,

45. Obama needs to get a better deal than last time.

49. Actually, we don't.

50. Republicans would rather see the military cuts than see taxes go up on the rich.

52. That's where that political capital thing come in,

68. Resoundingly rejected? We won 50-48.

122. Let's talk 'real institutional power dynamics' here. The Senate

43. Republicans lost seats in the House and the Senate and they lost the WH again.

48. Winning means that Boehner's negotiating with Obama instead of Romney.

71. Republicans lost several of their most rabid anti-SS gang. They got the message and now is

77. The bully pulpit is no match for the Speaker's Gavel.

81. Actually we've seen, time and again, the power of the bully pulpit,

97. He's never used it with any effectiveness. nt