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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:24 PM

 

Glenn Greenwald has seen the future, and it is depressingly familiar.

"Consider the very first controversial issue Obama is likely to manage, even before the glow of his victory dims, literally within the next couple of weeks. It is widely expected - including by liberals - that Obama intends (again) to pursue a so-called "Grand Bargain" with the GOP: a deficit- and debt-cutting agreement whereby the GOP agrees to some very modest tax increases on the rich in exchange for substantial cuts to entitlement programs such as social security and Medicare, the crown legislative jewels of American liberalism.

Indeed, Obama already sought in his first term to implement sizable cuts to those programs, but liberals were saved only by GOP recalcitrance to compromise on taxes. In light of their drubbing last night, they are likely to be marginally if not substantially more flexible, which means that such a deal is more possible than ever.

In other words, the political leader in whose triumph liberals are today ecstatically basking is likely to target their most cherished government policies within a matter of weeks, even days. With their newly minted power, will they have any ability, or even will, to stop him? If history is any indication, this is how this "fight" will proceed:"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/07/obama-progressives-left-entitlements

One hopes that things won't turn out this way, but given the track record of the past four years, it seems all to possible.

128 replies, 7002 views

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Reply Glenn Greenwald has seen the future, and it is depressingly familiar. (Original post)
MadHound Nov 2012 OP
Whisp Nov 2012 #1
MadHound Nov 2012 #3
JaneyVee Nov 2012 #111
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #125
msanthrope Nov 2012 #30
alarimer Nov 2012 #2
SammyWinstonJack Nov 2012 #4
one_voice Nov 2012 #5
MadHound Nov 2012 #8
one_voice Nov 2012 #24
UnrepentantLiberal Nov 2012 #40
one_voice Nov 2012 #57
UnrepentantLiberal Nov 2012 #121
MadHound Nov 2012 #41
one_voice Nov 2012 #62
MadHound Nov 2012 #67
one_voice Nov 2012 #70
MadHound Nov 2012 #78
one_voice Nov 2012 #96
MineralMan Nov 2012 #92
WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #99
Whisp Nov 2012 #37
MadHound Nov 2012 #42
Whisp Nov 2012 #46
one_voice Nov 2012 #64
MadHound Nov 2012 #69
Whisp Nov 2012 #79
MineralMan Nov 2012 #95
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #115
ZenLefty Nov 2012 #7
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #84
ZenLefty Nov 2012 #102
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #108
Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #6
MadHound Nov 2012 #10
Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #13
MadHound Nov 2012 #15
JI7 Nov 2012 #21
MadHound Nov 2012 #29
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #28
MadHound Nov 2012 #31
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #36
Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #55
MadHound Nov 2012 #56
Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #66
MadHound Nov 2012 #73
CreekDog Nov 2012 #17
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #51
joshcryer Nov 2012 #120
JI7 Nov 2012 #19
MadHound Nov 2012 #23
joshcryer Nov 2012 #118
Scurrilous Nov 2012 #9
MadHound Nov 2012 #12
RobertEarl Nov 2012 #11
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #25
Junkdrawer Nov 2012 #14
MadHound Nov 2012 #16
Junkdrawer Nov 2012 #65
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #116
woo me with science Nov 2012 #18
WhoIsNumberNone Nov 2012 #20
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #22
MadHound Nov 2012 #26
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #33
MadHound Nov 2012 #34
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #39
MadHound Nov 2012 #44
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #45
MadHound Nov 2012 #49
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #50
MadHound Nov 2012 #52
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #68
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #122
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #43
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #48
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #71
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #77
MadHound Nov 2012 #81
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #97
msanthrope Nov 2012 #82
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #27
xfundy Nov 2012 #32
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #35
MadHound Nov 2012 #38
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #60
MadHound Nov 2012 #63
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #54
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #72
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #74
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #76
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #93
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #80
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #100
DemocratsForProgress Nov 2012 #47
AtomicKitten Nov 2012 #53
SidDithers Nov 2012 #90
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #58
MadHound Nov 2012 #61
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #88
MadHound Nov 2012 #89
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #114
Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #127
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #103
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #123
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #124
FrenchieCat Nov 2012 #59
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #75
MadHound Nov 2012 #83
DevonRex Nov 2012 #86
SidDithers Nov 2012 #85
MadHound Nov 2012 #87
SidDithers Nov 2012 #98
MineralMan Nov 2012 #91
MadHound Nov 2012 #94
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #101
MineralMan Nov 2012 #104
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #109
MineralMan Nov 2012 #110
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #112
jpak Nov 2012 #105
msanthrope Nov 2012 #106
Zorra Nov 2012 #107
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #113
joshcryer Nov 2012 #117
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #119
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #126
Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #128

Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:26 PM

1. ''One hopes that things won't turn out this way,...'''

That's our MadHound, always full of hope!

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:27 PM

3. Any comment on the article itself, or are you just specializing in snark today? n/t

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:34 PM

111. What track record over the past 4 years? He hasn't touched SS & doesn't plan to.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #111)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:03 AM

125. Yeah, but he's going to do it any day now ...

He's just biding his time until the FEMA-built concentration camps are ready to house the dissenters.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:49 PM

30. Our little ray of sunshine! nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:27 PM

2. I'm worried about this too.

It's time to face reality and start pushing Obama to stop with the "Grand Bargain" bullshit. Stop bending over backwards to get people to work with him, when they NEVER will.

Glenn Greenwald is always a good reality check. 24 hours is enough to celebrate, now back to reality.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:29 PM

4. +1.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:30 PM

5. First of all it hasn't been 24 hours...

and second of all who the hell are you to tell us when we stop celebrating. A lot of us worked our asses off and would like a fuckin day off without this kind of shit.

Maybe you guys could stop bending over backwards to shit and piss on everything. How 'bout that.

Damn!

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Response to one_voice (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:32 PM

8. So, do you want to see a rise in the retirement age,

 

And SS hitched to a chained CPI?

Sorry, but time waits for nobody, and these issues are coming up quickly. Best to get on top of them now rather than later, when they've already gotten on top of us.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:46 PM

24. You go on and get on top of...

it, it's what you do best.

I'd bet you my house nothing will happen before tomorrow morning. But you go on and run around like your hair is on fire. Me I'm going to enjoy the results of my hard work, I'm going have a glass of wine and relax tonight, I've earned it.

Enjoy your lemons, sour grapes, or whatever...

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Response to one_voice (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:58 PM

40. So we should let our leaders do as they please with our money?

 

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:17 PM

57. Really? one day...

we're talking about one day. If the world ends in the next 24 hours, if the 'our leaders' do as they please with all our money and change all the rules in the next 24 hours, then yeah, I'm gonna relax and enjoy my wine tonight cuz after the next 24 hours some serious shit is gonna go down and I'm gonna probably need my wits to protect my family.

What don't you get about let me enjoy today without this shit? Is that really a big request? Did you work you ass off to get Obama re-elected? If you did thank you, if not please leave me alone about wanting to relax. mkay?

BTW: How are you making out? I know you didn't have power, are things any better? I hope so.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #57)


Response to one_voice (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:59 PM

41. That's it, kick back, enjoy.

 

Enjoy the fact that right now moves are being made, bargains are being offered. That was part of the whole point of putting this Grand Bargain off to the end of the year, get it done while everybody is busy with an after election glow, Thanksgiving, Christmas.

Sorry, but politics never sleeps, never rests. But hey, take a break, just don't be surprised when you tune in again that your Social Security future has darkened considerably.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:21 PM

62. I don't need your permisson...

to rest. I'm fuckin' tired. I've worked my ass off, while you were whining about having to vote for Obama. I've earned a few hours rest, and don't need some whiney ass telling me I haven't.

If you're so worried you do the fucking work now. How's that. I'll start back tomorrow.

Thank you very fucking much. You're dismissed.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:27 PM

67. LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh, you poor, poor baby, you're tired.

 

Look, I've been out on the streets every week for the past eleven years trying to stop a war. Hell, I've been fighting wars since I was nine years old, protesting the Vietnam war. I started working in politics when I was eleven. I continue to keep myself involved in political issues, but you, poor baby, are tired after one campaign season.

Forty years I've been involved in politics, pretty much continually, and no, I'm not tired. But hey, take your time, drink your wine, relax you poor baby

Psst, a hint, you can't "dismiss" anybody, but nice to see you have that big authoritarian complex thing going on.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:30 PM

70. My dad didn't come home from the

Nam, I never got to meet him...keep laughing.


edited to add: If you must know I am concerned about SS I'm disabled. My parents are on SS. But again I DON'T NEED YOUR FUCKING PERMISSION to rest. I don't need you to validate why I'm tired either, the fact you think I do makes you selfish and arrogant, and a lot of other things I can't and won't call you. Now please leave me the fuck alone.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #70)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:37 PM

78. And I was out there at the age of nine, fighting to get all the soldiers home,

 

What the hell were you doing? I'm out in the streets now, in the autumn of my life, trying to bring the soldiers home. What the hell are you doing about that? I was, and am, fighting to keep as many military kids from being fatherless as possible. What the hell are you doing besides pulling out the poor pitiful me routine?

Don't try that authoritarian shit on me, don't try to pull the fact that you've worked the campaign as an excuse to relax. You can't relax in politics. Obama, Boehner, and every other politician are already back to work, focused on the Grand Bargain, don't you think that we the people should be as well?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #78)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:54 PM

96. Did you read my post...

I wasn't born yet, my mom was pregnant with me during Nam, sorry I couldn't jump on out and protest the war. She did and lost one baby. That good enough for you? She lost her husband and damn near lost me. That good enough for you?


Once again, I can relax when the hell I fuckin' feel like it, got it? You don't get to tell me what to do. I've lost too much and given too much, for someone like you to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing. I owe you nothing and quite frankly I hate the fact that anything I do benefits someone like you. I don't like bullies and you're a bully.

I will work my ass off giving far more than my body should for someone that needs it, appreciates it and will work with me. Someone like you that demands more while criticizing belittling and insulting me can go to hell for all I care. That should sum it for you.



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Response to MadHound (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:49 PM

92. Snark doesn't become you, Madhound.

Truly.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:55 PM

99. From one of those who were not

 

out busting our butts on the street - a big thank you. Take a few days. The craziness isn't going anywhere.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:56 PM

37. +++++

thanks for doing all that hard work, and you certainly deserve to celebrate!

They came out rather suddenly, didn't they?. I was expecting another 2 days of grace before all the Great Wise Ones come here and start telling the President what to do and how to do it. ;D

This would have annoyed me last week, but not now. Not now. This is actually really funny stuff to see them flail away in helplessness.

*sits back and enjoys

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Response to Whisp (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:01 PM

42. Be even funnier when retirement age rises and SS is linked to a chained CPI.

 

But hey, you're probably all for that, after all, anything that Obama approves is good enough for you, right?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:07 PM

46. sure, I'm all for that and a bag of chips too!

carry on.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:23 PM

64. Unreal...

this is the same person complaining about voting for Obama 4 days before the election, so I'm not surprised by this.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:30 PM

69. Hey, there's only one way to get things done in this political system of ours,

 

And that's by being the squeaky wheel, the loudest, most annoying squeaky wheel around. You don't like what I'm saying, the issues I'm bringing up, then do something about them so I'm no longer the squeaky wheel.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #69)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:37 PM

79. well, we all thank you so much for single handedly re-electing President Obama

the squeaking was unbearable, and for years now - but I guess you got to do what you go to do! David Axelrod has nothing on you!

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Response to MadHound (Reply #69)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:52 PM

95. Nah. It's more like a shopping cart with a flat spot on one wheel.

After pushing it around the supermarket briefly, most people just abandon it and go get a better cart. The noisy supermarket cart either gets repaired or goes into the scrap pile. It's just annoying.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #69)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:49 PM

115. We intend to all be squeaky wheels and despite what a few on DU seem to think, we never

stopped. I love that issues remained the focus of all the Liberal Organizations in all my interaction with them, we let the WH and Congress know that they had our support on condition that they would represent the people on important issues, not the Corporations.

I wonder why they are so worried, it's almost as if they don't trust the President to keep his word. I believe he meant what he said when he said 'I heard you' and repeated it with what seemed like some emotion.

He also admitted that one mistake he made in his first term was to try to negotiate with Republicans rather than with people.

He now has the opportunity to become one of the best progressive Democratic Presidents in history and he has the support of the American people which is all a President really needs, on the issues that matter to them.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:31 PM

7. Technically it hasn't even been 24 hours

But geez, who's counting?

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Response to ZenLefty (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:40 PM

84. Tell that to the Corporate Lobbyists who don't wait one minute before descending on

DC with their bags of money to push THEIR agenda.

Interesting how it's always Democrats who are told to 'wait', because 'there's an election coming up' and then 'it's only a week, a month, a year etc.

Well this time it looks like Democrats have learned. A huge coalition of Unions and Liberal Groups, and SS advocates has formed, including people like Bernie Sanders and they KNOW there is no time to waste.

I guess it comes down to who supports Democratic policies and who doesn't. We won, we have the momentum to shut down Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles, both enemies of SS before the Lobbyists get there before us.

And aside from this coalition, the American people will back this President when he takes a firm stand against tying SS to the Deficit since he knows there is no connection between the two.

I am confident he will join that coalition and let Republicans know that SS is STILL, despite Paul Ryan's opinion, the 'third rail' of politics. He's got over 80% of the people on his side. I believe he will stand with them and will not allow Republicans to go against the wishes of the American people.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #84)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:03 PM

102. Sure, I'll tell them next time I bump into them at the grocery store.

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Response to ZenLefty (Reply #102)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:18 PM

108. You don't have to bump into them, you could write an OP, eg, you could make some

phone calls to your elected officials, I have. They read blogs, they want to know what the competition is saying. This is why GG and so many others now will be writing about this on the Left. So they know, we are no longer asleep at the wheel. We have learned from past experience that in politics you cannot rest on your laurels, some one is always going to be ahead of you.

WE are not the ones who should be asked any more to shut up and be quiet. We, the people, are pretty sick and tired of these tactics as we see the results. Which is why so many people are organizing now, not tomorrow, not next month when it will be too late, but now, to stop these Republican policies from going forward.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:31 PM

6. Why does a libertarian, who defends racists and supports Citizens United & Gary Johnson.....

give a shit about "entitlements"? Answer: He doesn't. GG has the whiff of a "concern troll" about him. My only surprise is that he waited 10 hrs. before posting this poison.

Stay classy Glenn!

P.S. GARY JOHNSON WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT!!!!!!

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:33 PM

10. Aside from the critique of the messenger,

 

Do you have anything substantial to say about the actual article. Frankly I think it is spot on in its concerns.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:34 PM

13. "Aside" from the fact that "the messenger" sucks? I think that about covers it. No cred.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:37 PM

15. Ah, so you're one of those people who judges a book by its cover,

 

Not surprising.

So, are you ready for the retirement age for SS to rise, for SS to be linked to a chained CPI? Are you wanting to see SS benefits cut? Or does your blind hatred of Greenwald override everything else?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:42 PM

21. tarheel didn't say he looked like a libertarian, but that he SUPPORTED gary johnson

that's not judging by the cover but based on actions.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:48 PM

29. And you know what, none of that addresses the issues that Greenwald brings up in this piece.

 

Very real issues that are coming up very quickly. Do you want to see the retirement age rise, SS linked to a chained CPI? Try commenting on that rather the purity of the author.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:47 PM

28. How do you propose he force John Boehner to fully fund the Congressional Progressive

Caucus's budget?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:49 PM

31. Umm, does that have anything to do with the issues brought up in the article?

 

That would be no.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:55 PM

36. Sure. The Republicans still have significant power that has not been undone.

In order to get funding for the things Obama wants, he's going to have to cut deals with Boehner.

Boehner--not Obama--controls the federal taxing and spending power.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:15 PM

55. If only GG were the only one I hated. So many people....So little time.

I hate bigots, and all who defend them. Sorta clouds my impressions, ya know? And his defense of Citizens United is beyond the pale. GG has never been an entitlement advocate for the poor or anyone else, so one is left to wonder what's changed. Oh...that's right. I'm gonna run now, mmmkay? I know you'd like me to keep kicking this crap thread to the top, but I've said all I need to.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:17 PM

56. Yes, namely that you don't want to discuss issues,

 

Just shoot the messenger.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:26 PM

66. If by messenger, you mean GG? Then fuck "the messenger". Racist,.....

xenophobic, libertarian, Citizens United loving assholes make me , and have absolutely zero credibility on the issue of entitlements.

I know you're here to bring down the mood, but guess what? Doesn't work on me.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #66)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:33 PM

73. So the question remains,

 

Do you want the retirement age to go up, SS linked to a chained CPI? Because that is what is coming down the pike, very, very quickly.

And despite your "knowledge", I'm not here to bring down the mood, I'm here to discuss serious issues that we're going to have to deal with quickly. The president, Boehner, and every other politician is already focused on the Grand Bargain, don't you think we should be as well?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:40 PM

17. actually i would like to know if Glenn Greenwald is a libertarian on social programs

is he?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:09 PM

51. Only the ones that directly affect him personally.

Everyone else can take a hike.

Libertarian racist anti-immigrant Greenwald...yeah, I'll take advice from him.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:56 PM

120. "The parade of evils caused by illegal immigration is widely known, and it gets worse every day."

Glenn Greenwald.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:40 PM

19. intentions matter, if this guy supported Gary Johnson he has no crediblity on this

it's like when Romney was campaigning against sending jobs overseas . he had no crediblity on that issue .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:45 PM

23. So, ignore the name on the masthead,

 

What do you think about the issues he brings up? There is no list of "accepted authors" on DU, and frankly, back when Bush was in office and Greenwald was going after him, Glenn was a god around here. Just because Greenwald stuck with his principles and went after Obama, now he is pariah, even though he and his principles have stayed the same.

It is about the issues, not the author, or do you always shoot the messenger?

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:53 PM

118. Yep. That's 100% fact. He thinks the Republicans will "work with Obama."

What a piece of shit Glenn Greenwald is.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:32 PM

9. That was fast!

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:34 PM

12. Well, considering that the fight over the Grand Bargain is staring us in the face,

 

It has to be fast. So, do you have any comment on the actual article itself?

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:34 PM

11. Hope not

Obama might have just been accommodating the deficit scoundrels until past the election.

He knows as well as anybody that other presidents proved deficits don't matter. So hope is it was all part of the chess game and he now goes with just cutting the awful growth of defense budgets.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:46 PM

25. Obama doesn't pass budgets--Congress does.

The big problem is that John Boehner has de facto veto power over each and every spending and taxation bill.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:36 PM

14. I'm afraid that between Steps One and Two, there will be a Big Event....

Possibly China announcing that it won't purchase any more of our debt unless we implement Austerity.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:38 PM

16. I seriously doubt that will happen,

 

Given China's own precarious economic position, announcing such a move would plunge their country into an economic morass that they wouldn't climb out of until the midpoint of this century.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:23 PM

65. Why? They've already announced that they want hard assets for more loans...

They've been buying up our infrastructure for a while now. If there were a quiet deal that they make the announcement and we comply with token retaliation....

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:49 PM

116. Oh please. What will China do with all its foreign exchange in U.S. $ if it does not

 

buy $-denominated debt instruments?

Just as Germany needs Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland to sell its shit to, so too does China need the U.S. to sell its shit to.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:40 PM

18. K&R

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:42 PM

20. I bask in nothing

My only comfort is that Wall St. Willie will be taking his Leer Jet back to the Caymans instead of rolling out the red carpet for the Republiscum to truly fuck us. I fully expect the Republiscum to continue their obstructionist bullshit for at least the next two years. And that's a best case scenario.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:44 PM

22. Shorter Glenn Greenwald: Republicans don't control the House if you close your eyes

and click your heels together three times.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:46 PM

26. So you honestly think that Obama and the Democrats don't have political capital now?

 

Or do you simply think we need to keep our powder dry. . .forever.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:51 PM

33. Sure, they have capital. But capital is no replacement for institutional power. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:54 PM

34. So, since they have capital,

 

Don't you think it would be worthwhile to get the best, most liberal deal we can out of the Grand Bargain? Or should we simply settle for raising the retirement age and a chained CPI?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:57 PM

39. Absolutely get the best deal possible. The real question is what kind of deal is possible.

The left has a line to walk here--they absolutely should push for the best deal possible and draw lines in the sand where possible.

At the same time, some kind of realism is necessary. His negotiating counterpart is not Nancy Pelosi.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:02 PM

44. No, his oppenent is a Republican party in decline,

 

But it doesn't bode well that the last time a deal with the Bush tax cuts came up, Obama caved three weeks before the drop dead date.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:05 PM

45. Obama needs to get a better deal than last time.

But, both sides are going to have to eat shit sandwiches. Hopefully the Teabaggers eat more than we do.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:08 PM

49. Actually, we don't.

 

Very simple deal, do away with the military cuts in exchange for ending the tax cuts for the rich(keep the middle class tax cuts). Everything else is off the table. Pretty simple, pretty good deal.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:09 PM

50. Republicans would rather see the military cuts than see taxes go up on the rich.

They don't really care about military spending--it's just a socially conservative flavor of pork.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:11 PM

52. That's where that political capital thing come in,

 

The public resoundingly rejected the one percent this election, and everybody knows it.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:28 PM

68. Resoundingly rejected? We won 50-48.

And the same country that elected Obama also elected a GOP majority in the House of Representatives.

I'm not saying Obama doesn't have capital or that he shouldn't try to spend it.

But, it's not intellectually honest on Greenwald's to ignore the very real institutional power dynamics at play here.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:03 PM

122. Let's talk 'real institutional power dynamics' here. The Senate

 

is now solidly Democratic and any 'grand bargain' will have to get past the Dems in the Senate. Dems control 2 of the 3 arms of government and Obama is now almost 100% veto proof (meaning anything he vetos goes absolutely nowhere).

So Obama should tell Boner and Cantor that cuts to Social Security and Medicare are "off the table."

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:02 PM

43. Republicans lost seats in the House and the Senate and they lost the WH again.

Can someone tell me when Democrats winning actually means something? All we ever hear are excuses.

What you are actually saying is that the Party that lost will have more power than the Party that won. That makes zero sense and it won't sell anymore.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:08 PM

48. Winning means that Boehner's negotiating with Obama instead of Romney.

John Boehner still controls the federal spending power. All 435 house seats were up last night, and Republicans won most of them.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:31 PM

71. Republicans lost several of their most rabid anti-SS gang. They got the message and now is

the time to jump all over them and expose them even more for what they are.

The election is over, we won. Now we need to stop making excuses and turn that victory into action.

The House cannot pass their garbage through the Senate or the WH and that is what Boehner knows. He's not in a very good bargaining position.

Besides, a huge coalition of Unions and other Liberal Groups are now organizing to fight this Grand Bargain so Obama has lots of support from the American people.

Bernie Sanders will be very involved with the coalition and I am at a loss as to why anyone on the Dem side is not excited about us finally being able to defeat these Republican ideas.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:37 PM

77. The bully pulpit is no match for the Speaker's Gavel.

The main weapon Obama has is the veto pen.

Talk about ideas conflicting is nice and romantic. But power is what counts for policy-making.

And Boehner still has a bunch of it, per Article I of the Constitution.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:38 PM

81. Actually we've seen, time and again, the power of the bully pulpit,

 

Obama has used it before, time he started using it again. What's holding him back, he's not running for another term

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Response to MadHound (Reply #81)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:54 PM

97. He's never used it with any effectiveness. nt

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:39 PM

82. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1. Tell us how the President overrides that. nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:47 PM

27. They were talking about the Grand Bargain coming down the pipe on...

...Democracy Now! last night. That train's a comin'

And when it hits, you won't believe what happens next- even when it's happening.

PB

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:49 PM

32. I just can't imagine that scenario.

If they haven't already, Focks Noise will be calling Obama a "lame duck." He tried, far beyond any limits I'd have had, to work with the repigs, and they constantly rebuffed him, blocked him, prevented him from getting anywhere near helping the country out of the mess that Bush created.

Now that re-election is no longer an issue--and I don't think it was a big one, anyway-- he can finally drop the other shoe on the Kochroaches and other repigs. I may be wrong, but I'm betting on it.

Multidimensional chess. I don't know how to play it, but he obviously does.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:54 PM

35. Greenwald's agenda is to trash Obama and the Dems in hopes of driving folk towards libertarianism

Plus, he's got a long history as a bullshitter

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 06:56 PM

38. Another one who wants to shoot the messenger.

 

So tell me, are you willing to settle for raising the age of retirement and linking SS to a chained CPI? Or do you simply want to grouse about the author?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

60. Not everything, that GG utters, is fact: GG spews propaganda, with a definite objective.

not bewcomThings don't become facts, just because GG utters

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:22 PM

63. But the fact of the matter is that SS changes are on the bargaining table,

 

And not just according to Greenwald either. But now is the time to get on top of this in order to protect SS benefits, after all, politics waits for nobody.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:14 PM

54. And how about Major Unions and tons of Liberal Groups who agree with Greenwald?

All of whom worked to elect Obama? Are they bullshitters also now that they are launching a huge effort to stop this Grand Bargain from going through?

Liberals Fear Lame Duck Betrayal By Incumbent

You're going to be very busy trashing all the messengers over the next few months. It might be easier to realize that the election is over and start addressing the issues for a change.

Major labor unions and dozens of liberal groups working to elect President Obama are worried he could “betray” them in the lame-duck session by agreeing to a deal to cut safety-net programs.

While Obama is relying on labor unions and other organizations on the left to turn out Democratic voters in battleground states, some of his allies have lingering concerns about whether he will stand by them if elected.

The liberal groups are planning to launch an aggressive campaign immediately after Election Day to pressure Obama and Senate Democrats not to endorse any deal that cuts Medicare and/or Social Security benefits.

The coalition has yet to be formally announced, so organizers are reluctant to speak publicly about the effort or disclose the full membership of the coalition.

It is expected to include the AFL-CIO, the Service Employees International Union, Campaign for America’s Future, members of the Strengthen Social Security coalition and dozens of other groups, according to sources familiar with the effort.


There is no time to waste. Big Corporate Lobbyists have been busy and we have learned that we must get busy also. This movement is starting NOW, these issues are of the utmost importance to the American people.

So are all these groups just anti-Obama, bullshitters etc and do you have any interest in the issues they intend to raise? You haven't stated where you stand on SS.

Bernie Sanders will be very involved with this coalition. Is he a bullshitter also?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:31 PM

72. GG started off as a corporate lawyer, made enough to retire, then claimed he had been a civil rights

lawyer: his notion of "civil rights," however, seems to be the Citizens United brand -- the "right" of corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money through the shadows to affect political campaigns

So IMO GG is a nothing but a corporate libertarian who works to split and demoralize Dems

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #72)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:34 PM

74. That wasn't the question. What about the Unions and Bernie Sanders and all the Liberal

Groups now organizing to defeat these Republican policies, the Grand Bargain? I am not interested in their personalities, I am interested in Democratic policies replacing Republican policies and anyone who is working towards that goal will be joined by a majority of the American people.

So, what is your position on the Grand Bargain?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:36 PM

76. My position on GG is that he's full of shit

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:51 PM

93. That wasn't the question. What is your opinion on the coalition being formed

to stop The Grand Bargain by Unions and Liberal Groups, SS advocacy groups and people like Bernie Sanders.

You personal opinion of a blogger is of zero consequence to me frankly, I am interested in ISSUES. I have no idea where you stand on issues so that is why I asked, but you seem to be avoiding the question. Just say so if you are not interested in issues. We will survive without those who don't care about SS etc. But since you are in this thread I assumed you had some opinion of The Grand Bargain.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:37 PM

80. Statement of AFSCME Pres. Lee Saunders on the 2012 Election

“This is a good day for the working middle class, the Main Street movement and the American Dream. The American people sent a clear message that we will stand with a President who stands with all Americans. We pulled together to elect leaders who believe that ‘we are all in this together.’ Working families reelected Pres. Barack Obama, giving him added strength in the fight to create jobs and opportunity. The voters have given a mandate to protect vital programs like Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid, and strengthen the middle class ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11171501

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:56 PM

100. Exactly "the voters have given a mandate to protect vital programs like Medicare,

Social Security and Medicaid". A Mandate, so what is the problem? Why are we seeing people trying to make excuses in advance as if they expect the President NOT to protect those programs? Do you believe he fooled us? That is what I am getting from your responses and I could be wrong.

The election is over, Obama knows, because many of us told him, that he was getting our support because we believed he would do exactly that, protect these vital programs. That he would never go along with any Republican ideas regarding those programs.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:08 PM

47. "depressingly familiar"

Oh, the irony.

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

53. +1

still celebrating ...

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:47 PM

90. Nailed it...nt

Sid

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:18 PM

58. At this point in the festivities

it is that magic time when Madhound, as predictable as the tides - ceremoniously and with great fanfare - drops the inevitable turd into the punchbowl.

"Huzzah! Huzzah!" shout the Greenwald idolizers, marching in lockstep behind their hero - seeing it as a welcome respite from their usual routine of decrying Obama supporters as locksteppers.

I appreciate how tough things have been for the Madhounds of the world, watching in horror as Democrats united in order to re-elect their president. And now those same Dems have the nerve to celebrate that achievement, dismissing those who have unsuccessfully attempted to sow the seeds of discontent among them. This gives the Madhounds a major sad.

But buck up, Madhound! You now have another four years to rant about all the things you know are going to happen under a second Obama term - which, as always, never come to pass.







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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

61. So, are you looking forward to a higher retirement age, and SS linked to a chained CPI?

 

Stick with the issues, not the hyperbole.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:43 PM

88. Greenwald sets up Straw Man, Madhound runs around the yard with it.

The entire article is a "So, this might happen. And when it does..."

It's bullshit.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:44 PM

89. No, actually it is an approaching reality,

 

But you're not going to believe that until it smacks you in the face, and even then you'll throw up your hands and decide that there is nothing we can do. Typical.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:43 PM

114. Yeah, it's been an 'approaching reality'

for years now. The fact that it never becomes a reality should not detract from the impending "reality" that you and Greenwald insist is imminent.

Just to be helpful, have you tried posting on sites like Rapture Ready? I understand they eat up this impending doom shit with a spoon.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #89)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 03:12 PM

127. Projection, you haz it.

Go back to fawning over the words of that racist prick Greenwald, the rest of us are moving forward.

See what Harry Reid had to say about Social Security today, I'll take his knowledge about the subject over what some Libertarian douchebag desperately trying to sow division among Democrats any day.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:05 PM

103. You've been playing that same tune

over and over, since Obama was elected. I understand how disappointing it is when people refuse to sing along.

It's not that they don't know the words. It's just that the lyrics have a hollow, empty sound, largely due to invariably predicting doomsday scenarios that never come to fruition.

Perhaps you and Greenwald can start a sing-along elsewhere. There are lots of websites where this kind of off-key dirge appeals to the doom-and-gloom faithful - those who can't carry a tune (nor recognize the facts), but are nevertheless convinced that their screeching voices deserve to be listened to.

I thought you'd outdone yourself in the laugh-my-ass-off category by admonishing me - or anyone - to "stick with the issues, not the hyperbole". But that was before I read your latest reply:

"And I was out there at the age of nine, fighting to get all the soldiers home ..."

Seriously, dude, you need to get yourself another hobby. This one just isn't working out for you. You're already seen as ridiculous - and claiming to have "fought at the age of nine to bring the soldiers home" is just the icing on an incredibly distasteful, albeit laugh-worthy, cake.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:06 PM

123. You're way out of line. Obama's victory means nothing, NADA, zilch, if the

 

core of the New Deal is gutted in the name of some 'Grand Bargain' that preserves the power of the 1%.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #123)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:58 PM

124. And as soon as that happens

be sure to let all of us know.

Until then, I'll take the predictions of Madhound et al with a pound of salt.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

59. Unsourced speculations as to what the Pres will do

start at 1-2-3......


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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

75. He now plans an evil compromise with Rs that will force us to eat lil chilluns!

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #75)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:39 PM

83. Not, not eat little children,

 

But rather catfood when we're retired, if we're retired.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #75)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:41 PM

86. Greenwald eats chihuahuas!!! Where's PETA?

They'll want to know about this!

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:40 PM

85. Greenwald. LOL...

Everything he writes is depressingly familiar.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #85)


Response to MadHound (Reply #87)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:54 PM

98. Sure you did...



I can't believe that, with everything you've written about Obama, that you so completely compromised your principles to vote for the lesser of the two "evil" candidates.

I actually respect the other DUers, like xedniw, who had the courage to admit they voted for Jill Stein and bravely eat their pizza.

Endlessly bashing Obama with the proviso "but I voted for him" is pretty hilarious.

Sid

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:48 PM

91. Isn't that special. Less than 24 hours after the election

is decided, you begin anew. You never disappoint.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #91)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 07:51 PM

94. Hey, I'm certain that Obama, Boehner, and every other politician in DC,

 

Were on this much quicker than I was. Haven't you learned that simple lesson, politics never sleep.

Pssst, does this post meet with your approval? I'm actually participating in this one, unlike the one you were complaining about just a few days ago. Of course I was really busy a few days back, what with my mother who is elderly and ill, my dog who has cancer, having a house guest, work, and many other things. Sadly, it seems as though you never take real life events into consideration and demand people conform to your ideal of how threads are run. Sad to be you, what without that real life and everything.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #91)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:01 PM

101. Really, have you admonished the Corporate Lobbyists who have already descended on DC

who have no intention of waiting to get what they want?

Doesn't matter, we Democrats have learned that we cannot wait and I am happy to see the Unions, Bernie Sanders, SS advocacy groups and dozens of other Liberal Organizations forming a coalition to stop the Grand Bargain. Obama has huge support to remove any mention of SS from negotiations about the deficit now. He also has the support of over 80% of the American people.

We won, and just like the Corporate Lobbyists there is no time to waste.

Btw, what are YOU concerned about? Are you afraid that Obama might betray those who elected him? I believe he knows why we supported him because we let him know, Liberals, Democrats. If you thought that DU was any representation of what was told to those seeking election, lol, did you really think people would be silent about these important issues?

I think the President understands why he got our support and as he said himself, he made the mistake in his first term of trying to negotiate with Republicans, rather than with the American people.

So I'm not worried, why are you? Do you not trust him?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #101)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:06 PM

104. "I think the President understands why he got our support "

You think Greenwald supported the President? Really?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #104)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:26 PM

109. Was that comment misdirected?

I just reread my comment and do not see where I said who GG supported as I do not know or care.

I care about Democratic policies being protected and am thrilled to see Democrats, Unions etc getting out in front of this issue right NOW as they have learned from past experience.

So, what is YOUR position on these issues, I don't believe you've expressed any opinion on Democratic issues, nor have any of those in this thread attacking GG, come to think of it.

Greenwald now has a huge audience and it makes people look silly and petty who attack him as his opinion counts like it or not.

But he's not the only Leftie who will be writing about this issue. Every respected Progressive Dem will be writing about it knowing what happened last time during the Lame Duck Congress. Do you btw? You seem to only focus on personalities but seem pretty uninformed about the issues. I will be more than happy to explain why we will not repeat what happened during the last Lame Duck Congress.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #109)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:29 PM

110. Sorry. I have reduced my number of replies in subthreads to just one from now on.

In some cases, at least.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:55 PM

112. Lol, promises, promises!

Still no answer to some pretty simple questions though and a not very convincing diversionary tactic. Nevertheless, I did receive your answer.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

105. Obama haters are so November 5th

yup

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

106. MadHound!!! Your thread before the election gave me hope, and this one gives me joy!! Well done! nt

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 08:16 PM

107. I doubt he will do that. Progressives would leave the Democratic Party by the hundreds of thousands

if he did something like that. Obama does not have to worry about being re-elected. It's time for him to move left, kick ass, and take names. Any moves to the right from this point on will be taken as a deliberate unnecessary betrayal.

The Greens would become a major force in American politics almost overnight if Obama went to this particular dance with the republicans.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:14 PM

113. I allow the prognostications of libertarians, xenophobes and racists

I allow the prognostications of libertarians, xenophobes and racists all the credibility they indeed and in fact, warrant.

That being said, President Obama does not have to concern himself directly with re-election next term, and I believe that will allow him a wee bit more latitude in progressing his agenda more forcefully. However, I'm simply reading tea-leaves and inspecting goat entrails like everyone else-- much like the author referenced in the OP.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:51 PM

117. Glen Greenwald thinks the Republicans will work with the President.



Fucking rich.

I would write a more substantial reply but the OP has been locked from their thread. That's just what stood out to me that was ridiculous on the face of things.

There will be a fight but given that the Teabaggers have nothing to lose (they don't give a shit about the country anyway) they will keep things stalled for another 2 fucking years. At which point the American people should oust them if they know what's good for them.

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Response to MadHound (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 09:54 PM

119. Thanks for posting. You most definitely do not deserve the snarks and

 

snotty remarks directed your way.

I'll be paying attention and contacting Maxine Waters (my rep), Sens. Boxer and Feinstein if this starts to rear its ugly head.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #119)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:03 AM

126. +1 Agreed.

PB

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #119)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 04:03 PM

128. Yep. Madhoud does not deserve these attacks nor does Glenn Greenwald

deserve these baseless smears.

Racist, because he defended a racist in a civil suit on 1st Amendment grounds. If Greenwald is racist for doing so, then so are the lawyers for the ACLU across the nation. Apparently, many DUers believe that the 1st Amendment and the protections offered should be restricted.

Libertarian because he accurately pointed out that many issues that are important to the majority of the U.S. population were only being addressed by primary candidates associated with the Libertarian party.

Gary Johnson supporter because he had the audacity to suggest an alternative to the two party structure, opining that a Johnson/Feingold ticket might break that strangle hold. Funny that his suggestion that FIENGOLD be a partner to his fantasy never gets mentioned.

Citizens United, Glenn supported the ACLUs amicus brief in that case which was narrow in scope. Both the ACLU and Greenwald both continue to reject a legislative or constitutional remedy that bans "some" political speech but rather both support significant reform such as; public financing, limits on campaign contributions, robust disclosure rules, and stricter enforcement on coordination between candidates and PACs

Some argue that campaign finance laws can be surgically drafted to protect legitimate political speech while restricting speech that leads to undue influence by wealthy special interests. Experience over the last 40 years has taught us that money always finds an outlet, and the endless search for loopholes simply creates the next target for new regulation. It also contributes to cynicism about our political process.

Any rule that requires the government to determine what political speech is legitimate and how much political speech is appropriate is difficult to reconcile with the First Amendment. Our system of free expression is built on the premise that the people get to decide what speech they want to hear; it is not the role of the government to make that decision for them.

It is also useful to remember that the mixture of money and politics long predates Citizens United and would not disappear even if Citizens United were overruled. The 2008 presidential election, which took place before Citizens United,was the most expensive in U.S. history until that point. The super PACs that have emerged in the 2012 election cycle have been funded with a significant amount of money from individuals, not corporations, and individual spending was not even at issue in Citizens United.


http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/aclu-and-citizens-united




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