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Wed Nov 7, 2012, 10:58 AM

MANY SAD RETURNS TODAY FOR THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION

SPENT more than $11.7 million against President Barack Obama - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $1 million against Sen. Sherrod Brown, OHIO - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $626,000 against Sen. Bill Nelson, FLORIDA - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $610,000 against Tim Kaine, Virginia (U.S. Senate) - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $341,000 against Sen. Claire McCaskill, MISSOURI - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $320,000 against Tammy Baldwin, WISCONSIN (U.S. Senate) - NRA defeated

SPENT more than $48,000 against Chris Murphy, Connecticut (U.S. Senate) - NRA defeated

What additional evidence is needed for elected officials and the media to finally discard the myth of the NRA's power to influence elections?

--Brady Campaign/Facebook feed

63 replies, 3712 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply MANY SAD RETURNS TODAY FOR THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION (Original post)
Kolesar Nov 2012 OP
Skittles Nov 2012 #1
drm604 Nov 2012 #4
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #8
Bandit Nov 2012 #18
Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #25
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #29
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #28
drm604 Nov 2012 #39
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #54
glacierbay Nov 2012 #17
rDigital Nov 2012 #36
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #35
still_one Nov 2012 #2
Kaleva Nov 2012 #14
madrchsod Nov 2012 #3
drm604 Nov 2012 #5
FailureToCommunicate Nov 2012 #7
marmar Nov 2012 #6
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #13
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #15
Occulus Nov 2012 #33
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #40
Paladin Nov 2012 #37
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #43
FailureToCommunicate Nov 2012 #9
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #10
rDigital Nov 2012 #11
derby378 Nov 2012 #24
rDigital Nov 2012 #38
Occulus Nov 2012 #34
Angleae Nov 2012 #61
leftyohiolib Nov 2012 #12
Renew Deal Nov 2012 #22
derby378 Nov 2012 #27
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #30
derby378 Nov 2012 #51
ManiacJoe Nov 2012 #26
leftyohiolib Nov 2012 #53
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #16
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #44
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #49
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #55
Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #62
sancheztax Nov 2012 #19
bhikkhu Nov 2012 #23
bhikkhu Nov 2012 #20
Renew Deal Nov 2012 #21
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #31
Junkdrawer Nov 2012 #32
hack89 Nov 2012 #41
nolabels Nov 2012 #42
hack89 Nov 2012 #45
nolabels Nov 2012 #47
hack89 Nov 2012 #48
nolabels Nov 2012 #50
hack89 Nov 2012 #52
nolabels Nov 2012 #59
hack89 Nov 2012 #60
Paladin Nov 2012 #57
hack89 Nov 2012 #58
L0oniX Nov 2012 #46
eqfan592 Nov 2012 #56
grantcart Nov 2012 #63

Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:00 AM

1. those cowards got exactly what they deserved

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:03 AM

4. Cowards is the right word.

Sure, there are a few here and there who's circumstances warrant it but other than them, why does anyone feel the need to carry a concealed weapon other than out of fear?

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Response to drm604 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:10 AM

8. OMFG, seriously, drop this idiotic meme now.

It has no sound logical basis, no sound statistical basis, and it just muddies the waters of the debate.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:22 AM

18. What other explanation is there for anyone wanting to carry a gun everywhere they go?

They have to be afraid of something or why bother? FEAR is the ONLY explanation.

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Response to Bandit (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:31 AM

25. Of course it's fear.

 

But not like you think.

Look, "fear" of car accidents is why I wear a seat belt every day. Fear of fire is why I have smoke detectors in my home. Fear of carbon monoxide poisoning is why I have CO detectors in my home.

This doesn't mean that I am some kind of paranoid person living in desperate fear of car accidents, fires, or suffocation. It's just that the tools for handling these situations are cheap and easy to obtain, and they don't hurt anyone, so it's easy to be prepared.

Carrying a firearm is the same way. Odds are, you'll never need one. Violent crime has been on the decline for decades now. But firearms are cheap and easy to obtain, and people with permits to carry them are hardly ever involved in crime - less so than people without them - so it's no big deal.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:35 AM

29. You put it better than I did.

Thanks, Atypical.

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Response to Bandit (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:34 AM

28. Fear is the only explanation for somebody who is being obtuse.

Somebody taking a precaution against an eventuality, even an unlikely one, does not mean that person is living in fear OF that eventuality.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:58 AM

39. Opposing viewpoints always muddy a debate.

That's the nature of debate. You don't get to stifle opposition just so that you can have a nice clean non-muddy non-debate.

And you don't get to just end debate by calling something an "idiotic meme" and demanding that it be dropped. If that's how it works then I could just throw the same demand back at you and your viewpoint.

In fact, that's what I'll do (since you can do it): Your whole argument is an idiotic meme and muddies the water and you should just drop it.

I did not come in here intending to get into a gun debate so I am out of here.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:55 PM

54. Nice use of the balance fallacy.

Simply because you have a viewpoint doesn't mean it is one grounded in reality and thus deserving of respect. Such idiocy only serves to stifle real debate, not facilitate it.

But since you weren't even interested in a debate on this issue anyway, then I question why you decided to make such an inflamatory remark in the first place. Sorry, but your faux rage post is laughable.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:21 AM

17. Fear has nothing to do with it

 

you do know that the police aren't responsible for the individual citizens safety unless in our custody? We're only responsible for the general publics safety, you are responsible for your own safety, that's why citizens obtain CC permits, not out of fear, but to be able to protect themselves if it ever came to that.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:53 AM

36. Exactly. It's inexpensive life insurance. nt

 

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Response to drm604 (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:52 AM

35. "Cowards" is an easy expression on the Innertube.

There are millions of fellow Americans who would take issue with that smear.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:01 AM

2. they are batting ZERO. Members should not be happy how their dues were spent

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Response to still_one (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:17 AM

14. Members dues do not go to the NRA Pac

The NRA-ILA relies on donations from members and non-members to fund its political activities. The NRA charter prohibits dues paid by members to be used for such.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:02 AM

3. maybe the nra should go back to what it used to be...

a hunters magazine instead of a gun owners political magazine

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:05 AM

5. I think we're proving that money no longer buys elections.

I wonder how much the Kochs spent against Obama. Whatever the amount, they threw it away.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:08 AM

7. Maybe the Koch Bros would have been better off just paying it directly to voters

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:06 AM

6. I long for the day when the NRA is a completely irrelevant force in politics.

nt

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Response to marmar (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:15 AM

13. Here's how: Quit pushing gun-control/prohibition.nt

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:18 AM

15. Bingo.

Lets stop getting hung up on an implement and start targeting the root causes of crime (poverty, education, etc.). The political capital we waste on failed gun control measures is costing us dearly in our ability to tackle the these other, significantly more important issues.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:49 AM

33. There were zero gun control measures on my ballot in this election.

Did yours contain any measures associated with gun control legislation?

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Response to Occulus (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:02 PM

40. In Texas? Please. BTW, one can push culture war

without ballot measures, and still spread the stink around.

This is a solid fact: The gun-control outlook MADE the modern "post-Fudd" NRA.

I look forward to the GOP-led, GOP-founded Brady Center fading into even greater irrelevency.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:53 AM

37. Take Your Blame-The-Democrats Jive Elsewhere.


It doesn't sell around here---particularly on a day like today.......

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Response to Paladin (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:09 PM

43. Bradys? "Democrat?" They are thoroughly GOP...

Do try to keep your Republican allies in the right column.

Again, hard fact: Gun-controllers made the modern NRA.

HA! Republicans begetting Republicans; such spurrious issue.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:11 AM

9. Thanks for the numbers...those are big losses for the NRA

and their poorly served members.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:12 AM

10. And the Brady Campaign will continue to be even more irrelevant than the NRA.

Because say what you like about the NRA, the Brady Campaign is at least as disingenuous as the NRA, but with less popular support.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:13 AM

11. Exactly. nt

 

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:30 AM

24. That's why you've got AK-wielding Democrats like me on your side

Let's remember that Sen. Gillibrand in NY flip-flopped on guns after being threatened with a primary challenge by Carolyn McCarthy and leaned on heavily by Chuck Schumer and his Brady Campaign advisors. Now maybe I'm not running for a seat in the US House or Senate, but even if I was, I think you'd find me a much tougher nut to crack.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:54 AM

38. I'm more of a Colt 6940 Democrat. : ) nt

 

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:51 AM

34. Did the Brady campaign devote their support to anything on your ballot?

Mine listed no measures even tangentially associated with the Brady campaign.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 05:46 PM

61. They Brady Campaign is still around?

I thought they were broke.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:14 AM

12. what a waste of dues

 

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:27 AM

22. I agree

Obama has been a pro-gun president. That money is purely partisan.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:32 AM

27. Not quite "pro-gun," but he's working on it

He has vocalized support for a ban on "assault weapons," whatever they might be, but some of his policies regarding National Parks and Amtrak have been surprisingly reasonable and conciliatory towards Second Amendment activists.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:37 AM

30. In spite of his vocalizing support for a ban on "assault weapons," I doubt it will happen.

Strongly doubt in fact. It has been, and continues to be a poison pill issue. I'd be curious to see the stats in NC on how many single issue voters voted against him because of his mentioning of an "assault weapons" ban.

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Response to eqfan592 (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:44 PM

51. The current makeup of the Senate also makes it unlikely

I think we can expect "no" votes from (among others) Jon Tester, Ben Casey, and Joe Donnelly - and let's not forget Majority Leader Harry Reid.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:31 AM

26. There is no dues money involved.

Dues do not go to the NRA-ILA.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:50 PM

53. sure they dont

 

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:20 AM

16. NRA talking points and links

should not be allowed on DU.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:12 PM

44. GOP-talking points (Brady) included in your ban?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 01:38 PM

49. Please....

Did Brady campaign against Democrats?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:56 PM

55. Doesn't make them any less GOP.(nt)

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:48 AM

62. Unknown, as yet. In '08, then-head of Brady said

he was undecided as to who to vote for in presidential race. You may recall, McCain supported an AWB.

Of course, few Demos want a Brady enbdorsement. Wonder why.

There is NOTHING liberal about gun control.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:24 AM

19. US Chamber of Commerce

Can you do this same analysis for the US Chamber of Commerce?

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Response to sancheztax (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:28 AM

23. Another stupid old-white-guy club

If they just did what they were supposedly there for, and thought a bit that the idea that "we are all inherently equal in rights and dignity" is actually good for business, then they might see a useful way forward.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:25 AM

20. and even stupider - none of that has anything to do with gun rights

which have been doing just fine under Obama and democratic legislatures. They've got to stop being an old-white-guy club.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:26 AM

21. And Obama will still do nothing on Guns

That's the kicker

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:40 AM

31. Rightfully so.

Because it is a poison pill issue that serves no useful purpose. It's wasted political capital better spent on fighting poverty and improving our education system, things that may have a chance at reducing our violent crime rate even further, unlike more gun control laws.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 11:43 AM

32. Obama victories are usually good for Gun Sales....

"He's going to grab our guns for SURE this time."

Wayne and his REAL backers are crying all the way to the bank.

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:02 PM

41. Good news. nt

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:05 PM

42. Wow! with that track record.......

A kiss of %#$@ is what the real deal is.

It is kind of like if some gun nuts were to send your candidacy some money run to Fed-ex immediately to rush it right back

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Response to nolabels (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:15 PM

45. Yet many Dems seek NRA endorsement.

Harry Reid immediately comes to mine. The NRA endorsed 56 Dems in congressional races in 2010 - with many more in local races.

Their policy is to endorse a pro-2A incumbent regardless of party.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 01:05 PM

47. So then is an NRA endorsement a useless ornament or not?

I would say the NRA would be much better served in furthering their cause if they got out of politics and instead spent the money on training of would be gun owners on security, handling and safe recreational use of their firearms. I don't see anything wrong of ownership but giving someone the idea that possession of such give a leg up on others is a bad idea especially with the idea it gives an excuse or a way out of something. Violence, intimidation and the magic bullet never solves anything and often makes matters worse.

Imagine what it would be like if people didn't see firearms as a weapon against other people and was just a sport like baseball or basketball. If the NRA spent their extra millions in some kind of target contests with worthwhile or even big prizes for the contestants. If you think about it, a hammer is as only as smart as the person holding it.

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Response to nolabels (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 01:30 PM

48. The NRA is the premier organization in America for gun safety training

it is the gold standard. Their Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program is the best program in the country for teaching gun safety to young kids.

Lets remember what got the NRA into politics in the first place - the 1992 Assault Weapon Ban. Want the NRA out of politics then take gun control out of politics.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 01:54 PM

50. How about for a right to own a firearm you would have to spend two years in active duty in military?

or six years in the reserves.

And for correction

"Originally, the NRA was not as involved in the political process as it is today. In 1980, they endorsed a US presidential candidate (Ronald Reagan) for the first time in their history."

History of the National Rifle Association and Guns | Guns Guns Guns:
http://www.gunsgunsguns.com/resources/history-of-the-national-rifle-association-and-guns.html

Yea, and that is why i can tune in sports center and see a major golf update and nothing about a sharpshooting championship. Most anything has a hard time going main stream as long as it people with crazy ideas behind it

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Response to nolabels (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:45 PM

52. It would be unconstitutional

the military is so small relative to the population as well as being very selective that your measure would be a defacto ban on exercising a civil liberty.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 03:51 PM

59. Just think how fun it could be

Going out in the cold and the snow or the heat and rain for field exercises. Getting up at 3:35 am so you shine your boots before the morning inspection. It's just freaking insane that some people think owning a firearm something to toy with. The idea of individuals having firearms in their personal control was was put on us when we had no real military. But now we have a military much larger than most anyone else, so what is so important, owning the firearm or a large military. It's like a lot redundant.

Civil liberty is a crock of shit unless you have a good reason to need and use it. I could figure out many things that others might think are a infringement on such supposed freedom type ideas. But being a pawn to any kind of lobby for others unearned enrichment is not my cup of tea. The place i live in is a give and take, and more militarism to bolster someone else's idea of what patriotism should look like a dead end to me.

Besides i spent my time in the service and already have had my fun

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Response to nolabels (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 03:55 PM

60. All you need to do is amend the Constitution - it is not complicated. nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 03:23 PM

57. The NRA Backed Romney.....


...even though Romney endorsed an assault weapons ban. The fact that Romney was a Republican was all the NRA required. And let's see Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent "take gun control out of politics," then maybe we'll talk.

And Eddie Eagle better stay the fuck out of my school district. If I find out the NRA is infiltrating the local schools, I'm not going to be happy.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 03:28 PM

58. In 2010 the NRA endorsed 56 Dems running for Congress, including Harry Reid

if you are a pro-2A incumbent they will endorse you. They routinely endorse democrats at the state level.

So you would jeopardize the safety of children on the altar of your anti-gun beliefs? What if there is no organization available with the proper political beliefs?

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 12:23 PM

46. Last time is was "Obama is gonna take away your guns" ...didn't happen and it won't happen now.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 7, 2012, 02:58 PM

56. Because of our President playing smart on this issue. nt

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Response to Kolesar (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2012, 06:54 AM

63. Maybe next time they will stay in a Holidiay Inn Express!

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