Any truth to this?? National Guard on Long Beach Island told "shoot to kill"

[adigal]

looters. This is LBI, NJ. My Republican mother thought this was the greatest thing she has heard. Property is more important than lives, you know.

I am sick if this is true.

[LiberalLoner]

1. Not just no but HELL no. There is no

Truth to this.

[adigal]

2. How do you know?? My mother heard this from a woman in Brant Beach, on LBI

who heard it from the police, she said.

[Enrique]

4. you can tell

it has all the hallmarks of something someone made up.

[LiberalLoner]

7. I know because I am 3rd generation Army

(Out now) and DH is still on active duty as a Colonel. That is not how the military operates in the US. Kent state was NOT intentional on the part of the leaders.

[adigal]

16. Thank you for your response - I feel better that it is a rumor n/t

[Mika]

32. Not true. (An older DU thread on this subject)

Newly released evidence shows Kent State shootings were likely deliberate murder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x864584

[LiberalLoner]

36. That's awful!

[dixiegrrrrl]

46. NEW evidence???? Hell, we knew that when it happened.

I remember it well. Lots of coverage at the time, lots of film.

[Art_from_Ark]

55. Reading some of the letters to the editor back then,

it really shocked me to read that there were actually assholes who SUPPORTED the killing of unarmed students!

[treestar]

53. That's not a very good source

Third hand, people get things mixed up, misinterpret things.

[adigal]

70. This is true. What bothered me was how gleeful they all were about it. Nt

[Dorian Gray]

74. I'd second this hell no

it sounds like an insane rumor.

[Robb]

5. None.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. They would first have to be issued weapons

NG on relief duty are rarely, if ever, issued weapons.

[jenw2]

20. The ones on TV had weapons...

just like they did after Katrina. The CONservatives are never going to let a good crisis go to waste and not execute their fantasy of a totalitarian state for as long as they can.

[adigal]

23. Thank you - our good liberal friends think I am nuts

and are going to "alert" on me, ooooohhhhhhhh, I am scared.

In Katrina, they kept people from crossing the bridge to safety. Of course, they were minority people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Those were cops, iirc two of them are now serving long jail terms

Not Guard or Federal troops.

[glacierbay]

61. That wasn't National Guard

that was the NOPD. And several of the cops were tried and convicted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Those would be military police

Not relief troops.

MPs do deploy, but never in large numbers.

[Robb]

27. Nonsense. Part of relief duty is security, and those Guard soldiers are armed.

Pistols holstered, rifles slung -- but armed.

Edited to add: To be clear, if someone's stealing stuff, these men and women will quickly arrest them. That's their job, not "shoot to kill" or some other silliness.

[tkmorris]

49. You are incorrect

[HooptieWagon]

8. Property owners aren't allowed there.

Friend of mine has a house in Brigantine. He's not allowed there until this weekend. Responders are checking for casalties, downed ppwer lines, gas leaks, and to prevent looting.

[TwilightGardener]

9. That would be an illegal order, if I am familiar with the military enough.

This isn't a combat zone, no matter how much shit looters steal. I think it's a rumor intended to scare looters.

[MineralMan]

10. Smells like reactionary bullshit to me.

I prefer teen spirit, thanks.

[MineralMan]

11. Gospel truth, of course.

I heard that Obama planned the hurricane, too, and that he used the beyond top secret weather machine to make it happen so he'd win the election. Probably the same source for both stories...

[adigal]

15. You can mock me, but this was from two people who live on LBI

Enjoy your mockery.

[MineralMan]

21. I'm not mocking you.

I'm mocking the people who said that, based on no information at all. The National Guard on disaster duty is not going to shoot anyone. It simply ain't happening. The people you heard that from are badly misinformed.

They are very much incorrect.

[adigal]

24. I hope so...but they did this after Katrina

Why don't any of you people remember that????

[MineralMan]

29. The National Guard did that? Really?

I believe your memory is failing. Go look it up. Google has the right answers, even if your memory has the wrong ones. Then go look up the prosecutions over that action.

You're simply wrong. The people who sad that to someone who told you they said that are wrong.

Spreading stupid rumors at this time is a very bad idea.


Here's a link: No National Guard involved. Just racist local cops. They're in prison now. Go read it and learn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings

[adigal]

33. OK, I was mistaken. Thank you for correcting me on that.

But the question needed to be asked. Sorry if it discomfited people.

[MineralMan]

40. Actually, the correct response is to do a little more checking

before you post rumors and nonsense. And then, when people called you on it, you made additional claims that were not true. You've said more that one thing in this thread that is simply incorrect. A little Googling would have prevented that.

You can still self-delete your original post. I suggest you do that now.

[adigal]

43. Thank you for your suggestion n/t

[LiberalLoner]

30. A few rogue cops, not soldiers

[MineralMan]

34. Yup. Here's a link to the actual story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings

So much misinformation; so little time to debunk it.

[adigal]

44. Wonderful!! So it wasn't National Guard, just cops

I feel so much better now about our great democracy!! Not really.

[MineralMan]

50. Oh, for pete's sake.

First you repeated some nonsense your mother told you she heard from "someone." Then, you accused the National Guard of shooting people crossing a bridge in New Orleans. Wrong on both counts. Now, you're pretending you didn't say that and snarking at me for pointing out your grievous error.

You were wrong. Period.

[adigal]

52. I said I was wrong about New Orleans, and you don't KNOW if this info

I received is wrong or not, do you? You have no knowledge whatsoever, so why don't you care that it might be true?

[MineralMan]

56. I know what the National Guard does and doesn't do.

Apparently you don't.

[glacierbay]

62. They most certainly did not do this after Katrina

that was the NOPD, and those cops involved were tried and convicted.

[Ikonoklast]

12. It's bullshit. When was Martial Law declared?

It hasn't.

[adigal]

13. OK, so maybe a rumor?? Because this woman said there are looters there

and that was their instructions. Maybe it is a rumor to scare any more looters, but it is not a good thing to say. What if someone is going through someone else's house, looking for cans of tuna fish, or something. Do you think if they were shot, we would ever hear about it.

Personally, I know we are not getting the whole story out of these Jersey towns. I have heard here and there of lots of fatalities. Same thing with Staten Island. My brother-in-laws two friends were just found in their basement yesterday, dead. An off-duty cop, dead. We don't need deaths from trigger happy Guardsmen. (And I know 99% of the Guards are not trigger happy. This is not meant to criticize the sane ones.)

How long did it take to get the death toll out of Katrina? Months, right? Maybe that is another reason they are trying to keep people off the island.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. No, they are keeping out due to broken gas mains

And downed, still possibly energized, power lines...and unsafe structures...

We media can enter places like this, with media cards, at strictly our own risk. Serious, it does not help.

We will also have a pretty good hande in people killed within 72 hours.

What is nota rumor is that they have likely alerted MORT teams, part of FEMA, since local coroners are having a few issues.

[cali]

39. yep. it's not a good thing to say. didn't stop YOU.

just stop with the dog shit rumor that the NG is under orders to shoot people.

[MineralMan]

47. You heard "here and there?"

So you rush here to repeat the rumors? Please don't do that. Instead, wait, search Google for actual news, and then post. Jumping the gun with rumors doesn't do anyone any good, and stirs up misunderstandings. In this instance, you went further and blamed National Guard troops for murdering people. You were very much incorrect, which a single Google search proved.

Don't you understand that rumors cause problems. You're not there. You did not hear anything from any reliable source. Why post rumors on DU, and make responsible people go looking for facts? It just doesn't make any sense.

[cali]

14. this post is shameful.

posting this kind of 3rd hand rumor shit is contemptible.

[LiberalLoner]

17. I agree. The poster should self delete or be alerted on

[adigal]

19. So alert on me - did this happen in Katrina or not??

Don't lie to yourself, just because you are in the military.

I have been here a LOONNNGGGG time and I am NOT a conspiracy kook.

[Schema Thing]

31. It did not happen in Katrina.

[MineralMan]

37. It did not. Go to the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danziger_Bridge_shootings

[MineralMan]

48. You were wrong. Show some dignity and self-delete your incorrect

posts. Don't make others work to correct your flawed information. You were wrong. Period. Why not admit it, apologize, and delete the posts where you said incorrect things that stain the reputation of National Guard members?


Feh!

[adigal]

18. So why did you click on it?? I was told this by people living there

If something like this is true, we need to know this. It happened in Katrina, people were prevented from coming over the bridge to safety, so don't BS me that this cannot happen in America.

[cali]

22. Can you possibly be this clueless?

You're spreading a fucking idiot rumor with NO link to anything factual at a time of crisis. It's a shit thing to do. And guess what, honey? I never said that this couldn't happen in America. duh.

[adigal]

38. Thanks, honey. Your intelligent, mannerly rejoinder will certainly convince me

of the rightness of your thinking.

And I am NOT clueless. You berated me for questioning, and then said that you never said it couldn't happen in America. How do you hold both of those thoughts in your brain at once?

[cali]

42. you didn't question shit, sweetie

you're spreading a rumor. a question mark doesn't change that, darlin'. and your insistence that this is happening in your responses in this thread, demonstrate something quite ugly.

[adigal]

51. Don't be such a sensitive wimpy baby

I asked a valid question. 99% of whatis,posted here has less validity than what I asked. And I asked, I didn't tell. Please try to understand the difference. Gosh, it's not that hard. Really.

[hoboken123]

59. A valid question?

I hear they've started eating bodies floating near Mantaloking. Anyone else hear that?

There: I too have asked a valid question.

[adigal]

67. No, your false equivalence is not valid. Thanks anyway.

One is possible, the other is absurd. Bad logic.

[Iggo]

72. That's abso-fucking-lutely the same goddam thing.

[adigal]

75. Huh? I can't decipher what you mean. Could you speak properly?

Thanks. English would be nice.

[Iggo]

80. Oh wow.

Well, that didn't work.

I surrender.

[Divine Discontent]

81. just lock this hysterical crap, please! shoot to kill only was under GOPers in Katrina, not Obama.

[Kurska]

35. Is there any other kind of shooting?

Shooting to wound is a myth.

[LiberalLoner]

41. That's true, we are all trained to shoot center mass

[petronius]

45. Sounds like the end result of a game of Republican Telephone:

RWer #1: "Those fucking looters (you know who I mean) should be shot!"

RWer #2: "Wouldn't it be great if the NG was ordered to shoot looters!?"

RWer #3: "...the NG was ordered to shoot looters!"

RWers #4-50: "Yay, shoot looters ('those' people, natch)!"

RWer #51: That Kenyan Marxist caused to hurricane so that the NG could shoot homeowners to protect looters!"

RWers #52- "Oh noes!!!1"

(OK, maybe not the last part... )

[adigal]

54. My sister is staying with a guy who is on a SWAT team in southern NJ

And he is patrolling with automatic weapons, rifles and bullet proof vests. He was told shoot if need be.

Thank you. I am done with the naysayers. Believe what you will.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Of course, HE IS CIVILIAN POLICE

that is a given. Can you distinguish between your local CIVILIAN POLICE and the Guard, let alone Federal troops?

I guess you can't.

If he was not, I would be shocked.

Oh and here is a huge clue to you, POLICE go into the field wearing Level III-A at least Body armor every day, disaster or no disaster. And of coures with their side arms... and SWAT carries with them their whatever automatic rifle (they got permission for those, MP-5 are favorites), or their service side arm.

Is he also carrying a radio, cuffs, and pepper spray? SHOCKING!

[adigal]

66. Ok, believe what you will. Aren't you the clever snarky one? N/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. That SWAT is part of a civilian police department?

What is there to not believe?

[a la izquierda]

58. Where in South Jersey, Camden?

They're probably not many people left on LBI. Most police forces are skeleton crews during the winter in beach towns in NJ, so unless this guy is with the State Police, I doubt LBI has a SWAT. But I do know that my uncle told me that neither he, nor anyone else can get on the island until further notice. And he's got a business and a house there.

[adigal]

68. LBI. The SWAT is from the mainland, where my sister is staying

She and her husband, and my brother can't get to their houses either. I hope all is ok with your uncle's places.

[a la izquierda]

83. Well, that makes more sense.

My uncle doesn't worry too much about his material possessions. He cleaned out his closets and pantry at his main house and brought everything to the shelter nearby. He always taught me that there are people much worse off than I will ever be, and generosity is the sign of a good human being. I guess this is why he's a liberal even though he is very wealthy.

Fwiw, I am sure the shoot on sight order is just a rumor.

[MineralMan]

60. SWAT teams are NOT part of the National Guard.

Again, this is a third hand account and a rumor. Can you not at least recognize that you are spreading false information? You have not posted a single, confirmable piece of information in this thread, and have gotten the story about Katrina and the people shot on the bridge completely wrong. Why should anyone pay any attention to any post you make? Your information is third hand, at best, and completely incorrect, at worst, and you continue to post more of it. Why are you posting incorrect information and rumors on DU? Please be more careful, and check your sources more carefully. There is the potential to do much harm by posting inaccurate, misleading information on DU.

[glacierbay]

64. Shoot if need be.

They won't shoot unless they're lives are threatened, like someone coming at them with a weapon, they're not going to shoot just because of looting.
I'm a cop and I know how these things work.

[DevonRex]

78. You were so polite and calm.

I'm cracking up laughing, thinking, like, really??? They can shoot if they need to?? With, like, real bullets even? They don't just have to be targets for the bad guys to shoot at this time?? Yay!!

Probably good that you answered her. But one more silly post like that last one she made and I may not be able to restrain myself.

[cali]

82. yeah, sure. like anyone believes a word YOU write.

You're determined to stir up hysterical bullshit. It's repulsive.

[Chorophyll]

63. This notion has been debunked over and over again in this thread.

Maybe it's time to take the thread down? Seriously, the last thing people dealing with the aftermath need right now is anti-government bullshit. (Which is what this is.)

[quinnox]

65. I did a google search and couldn't find anything except for

the fact that the national guard is there on site distributing food and water. I would be surprised if they were given an order like this. But if any one is shot and killed, I'm sure we will hear about it in the news.

[Marrah_G]

69. Not true

And frankly spreading this sort of rumor is really harmful.

[longbow5]

71. hope not

let them take what they need, a big insurance company will pay the owners. No loss to anyone

[slackmaster]

73. No way. Soldiers and Guardspeople are NEVER instructed to shoot to kill civilians.

They are allowed to defend themselves if they are attacked, but they are to use lethal force only if there is no alternative.