Joe Biden didn’t just win the debate. Joe Biden invented a new way to debate liars.

[highplainsdem]

From Eclectablog:

http://www.eclectablog.com/2012/10/joe-biden-didnt-just-win-the-debate-joe-biden-invented-a-new-way-to-debate-liars.html

The epic performance last night by Vice President Joe Biden is destined to go down in history as one of the finest debate showings ever. Three things conspired against Congressman Paul Ryan: the truth, a debate opponent well prepared with facts and a ‘tude, and a debate moderator that was skilled and educated enough not to put up with any bullshit. This perfect storm left Ryan flopping on the beach like a fish, mouth gawping for air, completely knocked out of his zone.

It’s not easy to debate someone who tells lie after lie after lie. You risk spending your entire time refuting the lies without ever getting your own message out. Last night, Joe Biden taught us how to do it. He started out grinning whenever Ryan lied. By the end, he was openly laughing and, in what was almost like a live-tweeting of his own debate, responded in the background to each lie that rolled out of Ryan’s mouth with a refutation so that, when it was his own turn, he could actually deliver his message.

He made Ryan look foolish on foreign policy. He made Ryan look foolish on domestic policy. He made Ryan look almost irreligious on the question of abortion. And the entire time, he was openly derisive of Ryan when he lied. It was a pitch perfect performance.

-snip-

This is how you handle liars. You show the perfect amount of derision for someone who is lying to the American people and then refute his lies with facts, openly, aggressively and with humor.

When I defended President Obama’s debate performance last week, I said that it freed him up to be more aggressive in the next debate because people were expecting him to. What I didn’t consider is that it also freed up Vice President Biden to do the same thing. Biden was already in the role of being more of an aggressor but, after last week, nearly everyone paying attention to the debates was saying he’d have to come out swinging. And, wow, did he ever.

He has shown us a new way to contend with politicians who have based their entire campaign on lies. You just have to Biden them.

Please read the entire, great blog post from Eclectablog.

And there are some wonderful video clips as well as a very funny captioned workout photo of Lyin' Ryan.

[WiffenPoof]

1. Nice Post

Complely agree.

[OriginalGeek]

2. Yet the first thing I heard on NPR this morning was

Ryan was calm, and measured. Biden was angry and interrupty and off-putting...(paraphrasing)

I was laughing coffee outta my nose on the way to work.

[bigbrother05]

17. Yet last week Mitt was masterful and the Prez didn't show up

Joe was nowhere nearly as off putting as Mitt and PBO could give a master class on civility and demeanor.

Only goes to show the bankruptcy of the MSM.

[brewens]

27. I've been watching this crap all morning. Had they applied the same "logic" to Romney

last week, it may have even made a difference in the polls. That kind of shows you what they are trying to achieve.

Now you have to wonder what happens if Obama is tougher? These people will be aghast at his "uppityness"!

[Tumbulu]

35. Yes, I am reacting the same way

I am left with a feeling that this next election is going to be stolen, which is why they are feeding us and manipulating every single situation to make it look close enough.

[sevenseas]

41. I totally agree

This election could be stolen...won't be the first time....

[OrwellwasRight]

81. Of course, we the people are complicit

when we let it happen. Yes they do it to us. But we don't have the gumption that the people of Egypt, and Lybia, and Tunisia, and Syria, and Bahrain (or even Greece and Spain) have to stand up to the oppressors and take our rights and freedom and democracy back. And that makes me sad.

[RitchieRich]

30. NPR on a Right slide??

I've been wondering for some time if NPR was really on a hard right slide since their funding has been threatened, or if I was just imagining it or had a spotty memory. I wanted to give them credit that they were just being impartial and trying to give both sides a say, but it consistently feels different than what I grew up on. Disappointing.

[Delphinus]

32. Very disappointing.

Seems it's been happening for years.

[tblue37]

38. Bush Baby deliberately stacked their bureaucracy with RW ideologues, so, yes, it has been

moving further right for some years.

[Mc Mike]

82. +1. Tomlinson hires who wormed into career civil service positions. nt.

[sevenseas]

45. Agreed.

I noticed it especially during the Democratic convention where the
public TV commentators ...(common taters?)... were so blase about the FABULOUS SPEECHES that were being made -one after another- (remember the nuns on a bus speech?) blockbuster speeches that we were cheering! But the public TV taters sat there as if they were too cool to get enthused by any of them.

And the climax of course was Clinton's speech (will go down in history as the "arithmetic" speech)... that even the Far Reich pundits admitted was a good speech!

At the end of the convention- on public TV I heard this incredulous statement, "Now the Democrats need to explain just what it is they stand for." when they had been making definitive speech after speech exactly about what they stand for!!!

WERE THEY LISTENING?

I was shocked.

I think something has happened to the public TV people.

HAVE THEY BEEN BOUGHT OFF BY MURDOCK?

[Cha]

57. Propaganda Assholes.. That's why I don't listen to radio, tv, or anywhere they're

Pushing their BULLSHIT.

I realize some do, though, to see what the f****** Enemy is up to.

[sendero]

58. NPR has been leaning right for a decade....

... now. No surprise here.

[NBachers]

70. Yeah, they've been National rePublican Radio for awhile now, but they're getting worse and worse

It's just infuriating to hear the Obama-sneering and the neutered lapdog yapping and leg-humping they do to appease the repukes.

[beachgirl2365]

33. NPR is trying to appease Tea Partiers & Right Wingers

Lately I find that I can't stand NPR, and I've been raised on it,.. raised my kids on it,....... but lately their COMPLETE pandering to the right just makes me switch the station,......................keep PBS, but NPR,.................nuh huh!!!! not anymore,....... they've sold out,....................must be those billionaire trust fund supporters using them to support the Rethuglicans positions when it comes to wealth and taxes!

[StevePaulson]

73. Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, Norman Goldman, Bill Press

And the list of good radio goes on and on and on.

We don't need any right wing propaganda.

The difference between liberals and conservatives is liberals don't have to lie. Ever.

http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com

Republicans Are A Disease

[gkhouston]

37. In this, Ryan's voice is against him. He can sound whiny even when he's not whining.

And boy, was he whining!

[abelenkpe]

42. NPR bites

They lost credibility back when Bush was in office.

But I'm glad you can see through their nonsense enough to enjoy it as humor

[OriginalGeek]

50. lol, me too

except now I have a coffee stain on my shirt...good thing it was casual Friday - I'm wearing a tropical shirt with a lot of rusty reds and browns anyway...

[BlancheSplanchnik]

51. fucking NPR.... ive lost all faith in them

Makes me hurl. They've been brazenly partisan. Well I notice one of their underwriters is the Natural Gas (fracking) industry.......that says it all right there.

I missed the debate cuz of work....but I Damn sure won't be listening to NPR

[JDPriestly]

65. Listen to Pacifica and its affiliates online. Try it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pacifica_Radio_stations_and_affiliates

[left on green only]

67. Yea Pacifica (KPFA Berkeley)!!!!!

Only I miss the days of my Sunday mornings with Bill Sokol and Larry Bensky. And I especially miss my Sunday morning shot of the music of French troubadour, Langueduc (I'm an Early Music junkie).

Oh, and how I reveled in being called a commie by people with no minds. I used to wear it like a badge.

[kooljerk666]

79. I used to be a member of CPUSA...

Communist Party of America and had a blast showing off my commie card to reich wing trash, driving them to the point of maddness & kept pushing.

I finally gave it up cause in my state PA, we have closed primaries & i was sick of missing out on primaries.

Last year I had a concussion & coma so bad (Glasgow Coma Scale 3) I only had a 20% chance of living, now i have a huge chunk of titanium in my head & can barely handle the effort it take to walk my dogs, I am out of the workforce for life, unless I can get in a program for handicapped or the disabled, BUt I am gonna buck up a bit for the ACLU so when I show off my Commie card I can back it up w/ an ACLU card too.

I have a support public radio sticker on my car, I may have to peel it off.

In Philly WHYY sound like it works for Bibi & the beltway types & other than Prairie Home Companion & some good weekend shows & Science Friday, it is totally worthless.

Thanks for the Pacifica link.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

68. thanks!

[RitchieRich]

83. Thank you!

It turns out I already had the closest (DC) station programmed in my car, but figuring it out led me to their website which will probably be far more useful to me.

[Maynar]

69. Blanche, you can find the debate on youtube

just search "Biden Ryan debate full" and you'll easily find the complete version.

I'm digging it, myself.

[JDPriestly]

64. Out there talking to voters today, I found the pro-Obama ones are upbeat and pleased

about the debate.

[tavalon]

76. Lyin' Ryan may have been calm, but he forgot to send the memo to his twitchy face

LOL

[flamingdem]

3. Agree, it was epic!

Joe is incredibly skilled, it was impressive

[Blue Owl]

4. Need to counter the Gish Gallop? Unleash the Biden Blitzkrieg.

BLAMMO.

[OhZone]

16. I love this!

It's a big effing deal! lulz

[calimary]

21. Welcome to DU! It IS a Big Effing Deal!

Glad you're here. We need you!!!! This thing isn't won yet.






Now get to work.

[secondwind]

31. Welcome to DU, OhZone! :-D

[sevenseas]

46. You said it-

I love it- thanks!

[siligut]

25. This is really, really good

Last edited Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

The Biden Blitzkrieg, this will become a political meme. Or is it already and I just haven't heard it?

On edit: Apparently Biden accused the GOP of a Blitzkrieg a few years ago and it wasn't a complement. Maybe the Nazi connotation is too strong.

[Blue Owl]

53. I suppose the "Biden Blitz" would suffice

Rather there be an NFL connotation than a Nazi connotation...

[randome]

55. Good point.

[russspeakeasy]

5. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful !

[Supersedeas]

59. Second that

[mnhtnbb]

6. Kick.

[B Calm]

7. If you see me smiling, ya know Ryan's lyin'

God I love Joe!

[DawgHouse]

19. This should be on a bumper sticker! n/t

[Lars39]

8. And I got the impression that while Ryan had been workin' the little noggin' for hours on end

to memorize all his "facts" and how to act during the debate, Biden could have sat down any time, any where and debated Ryan, or anyone else for that matter.

[gkhouston]

39. That's probably actually true, and he certainly projected that level of preparedness. n/t

[strongermessage]

9. Brilliant analysis.

[arthritisR_US]

10. Boy did I enjoy that, TY! :) n/t

[tavalon]

11. You've been Bidened!

[gkhouston]

40. "You've got fail." n/t

[Blue Meany]

12. Joe never interrupted him unless he was lying...

and not always then. But I guess that would be a way to deal with the Gish Gallop--interrupt every lie. However, I don't think Obama could have done that because he is black. He can, perhaps, get a way with more of it in the next debate, since has been roundly criticized for being to passive.

[siligut]

28. And this debate was less formal

It is more of a give and take, not so with the Presidential debate. I hate that you might be right about the black thing, I want that to go away. Obama is worth 100 Romneys, if I could, I would go into the Prez's brain and replace that man-made wiring with joy. Though, I think that because BO identifies black, what he has accomplished is even more impressive.

[ladjf]

13. Great point! nt

[randome]

14. I think that's overdoing it a bit. Biden clearly won. But I don't see 'epic' in it.

Just a great debater up against a poor one.

[Savannahmann]

15. Couldn't agree more

Thanks again Joe

[Bluenorthwest]

18. The unapolgetic liar is a tough nut to crack, Biden did a great, great job...

nt

[Uncle Joe]

20. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, highplainsdem.

[Zorra]

22. It's simple. Succinctly counter the lie with clear indisputable fact, and call the liar out with it.

There's no wiggle room for the liar, and defending their false position makes them look even more foolish and dishonest



It's not rocket science...

"If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
Adlai Stevenson

[ananda]

23. Biden unleashed is also VERY attractive!

nt

[railsback]

24. What pissed the Right off was that Joe didn't let Ryan rattle off lies

When Ryan lied, Joe made an issue of it. He wasn't playing for the MSM - he was making sure voters knew Ryan was lying. And looking at
the Rightwing's reaction, 'mission accomplished'. Say what you will about Obama, he came in not knowing what to expect, or how the media would react to all the nuances of demeanor, body language, substance. It sucks going first. Biden knew what to expect, and he jumped all over that shit. Obama knows what to expect now, so I have no doubt that he, too, won't let Romney lie his way through another debate without making sure the voters know he's a lying sack of feces.

[calimary]

26. Link doesn't work at the moment.

[highplainsdem]

47. I briefly got a message this morning saying something about the page being unavailable. A minute

later it was back. The site's getting a lot of traffic.

[DemKittyNC]

29. Yes bad link

but from what I read here I agree completely and I love this post. Biden was amazing last night! I am so proud to have him as my VP!

[highplainsdem]

48. Please try again, and see my reply to the preceding message. The site's getting so much

traffic, apparently, that it's sometimes unavailable, but you should be able to get it if you try again in a minute or so.

[DemKittyNC]

54. Okay I will

Thank you so very much!

[Live and Learn]

34. Bidened! I love it. nt

[politicaljack78]

36. The best part is barely audible...but during one of Ryan's lies..

Joe Biden smiled, looked him in the eye and muttered to him, "You're full of it (or shit)!" Genuine as they come, Joe Biden called out Fraudster-Lite, now we need the President to call out the "Fraudster in Chief".

[abelenkpe]

43. Ryan's body language showed how uncomfortable he was

the gulping, lip licking and water drinking were all indicative of someone who was being deceptive and uncomfortable under scrutiny.

[heaven05]

44. never

never called him a liar, just proved lyinaynryan to be one. Yep that was masterful. Spank the little boy and send him to his room!

[sevenseas]

49. Has anyone noticed who Ryan looks like?

HINT- A Sesame Street character who is tall and yellow.

It hit me when there was a straight-on camera angle and those huge bulging eyes that are turned down at the outer corners, with a huge beak....

Someone needs to do a photo-shop of Ryan as Big Bird. The resemblance is astounding.

[Arkana]

52. Best way to debate liars is to FUCKING CALL THEM LIARS.

Then they focus on the fact that you called them liars rather than on the substance of your argument.

[Cha]

56. Excellent Post from Eclectablog guy! You bet I went to read

the whole thing..thanks, highplainsdem!

When I defended President Obama’s debate performance last week, I said that it freed him up to be more aggressive in the next debate because people were expecting him to. What I didn’t consider is that it also freed up Vice President Biden to do the same thing. Biden was already in the role of being more of an aggressor but, after last week, nearly everyone paying attention to the debates was saying he’d have to come out swinging. And, wow, did he ever

Thanks for the links, highplainsdem! I missed this piece from Electablog, last week.

UPDATED: Really, Democrats, have you learned so little about Barack Obama in five years?

http://www.eclectablog.com/2012/10/really-democrats-have-you-learned-so-little-about-barack-obama-in-five-years.html

[Major Hogwash]

60. Excellent analysis. Biden clearly took Ryan to the woodshed last night.

Not only did Biden "straighten out" the record of the Obama administration during all of the lies that Ryan told last night, he did it in such a way that it was mostly painless.

However, all the mainstream media could talk about for the prior 4 days was that "Biden was prone to gaffes."
There were no gaffes last night.

There was a lot of gulping down of water, though.
I've never seen anyone drink so much water during a debate before in my life as did Ryan!!

[tavalon]

77. Mostly painless to us

To Ryan, well, he left a number of marks.

[Kurovski]

61. K&R. (nt)

[malaise]

62. Defugginglish!!!

Rec big time!

[Waiting For Everyman]

63. I agree, and it is an effective technique against speed-liars.

Some more would be useful too, but that's progress.

[DirtyDawg]

66. I can imagine...

...how the pre-debate prep went for Joe and his guys. They had to decide the best way to get across when Lyin Ryan was, indeed, lyin. They finally resolved that shaking his head and chuckling was preferable to either 'there you go again' (for obvious reasons) or 'liar, liar, pants on fire.'

[ErikJ]

71. Ryan’s speech was an attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies...

............On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz299Ffa4u3

[just1voice]

72. I agree, that is exactly the way to handle liars

Laugh in their face then refute their lies with facts, openly and aggressively.

[Kablooie]

74. Good point but ...

If the Republicans were listening they could use the same technique against true statements.
They could smile and laugh at honest truthful statements as if they were stupid lies then go on and talk up their lies as if they were truth too.

When you have debaters that put no value on honesty or facts it's pretty hard to win a debate.
We can only hope that the disingenuousness of the right becomes apparent to the low info middle voters.

[world wide wally]

75. The smile was an effective tactic to signal the audience that Ryan was lying so everyone could pay

attention to what the lie was.

[21 December 2012]

78. Might be giving Biden too much credit for that annihilation

it was more Obama & Axelrod & Plum...


they used the table Romney set in the Obama Debate, as a teachable sitcom, for Biden to seize the moment with...although Biden's grins laughs & aggressiveness, did certainly illuminate Ryan's overt perplexity.


It was a brilliant strategy for pinging off of Romney's debate dishonesty.

Now the Election's pretty much over, at this point. Especially after Obama turns up it, a notch, and brings the aggressive/ghetto style out onto Romney for the remaining debates.

[Justice]

80. K&R