HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » The CDC study on guns...s...

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 10:36 PM

The CDC study on guns...shut down.

Sat Oct 06, 2012 at 03:40 PM PDT
The CDC study on guns...shut down.
by lutznancy

...In the late 1980s and early 1990s, he and other researchers at the CDC started looking at gun violence in America.......their conclusions caused the NRA to to lobby Congress and put enough fear into our esteemed politicians to cause them to withdraw the funding.....it shut the whole study down. But look what they found!...

SNIP

..."We started looking at gun violence as a public health problem at the CDC in the late 80s and early 90s." Rosenberg says. "The standard line from the NRA is that you should have a gun in your house to protect you."

The results of their study speak for themselves: not only does owning a gun not protect you, but it increases the risk of homicide for people in the home three times, and increases the risk of suicide five times.

The same science that researchers use to study traffic deaths and other safety issues can be applied to the study of guns and their impact on the health of society.
"We're being held hostage to firearm violence," Rosenberg says, citing the NRA as the cause. "All of the science that could possibly give us answers is being stopped."

While a tremendous amount of research has been done to stop other leading causes of death, like cancer, or traffic deaths, Rosenberg says that the NRA has successfully put a stop to any work that might have been done to decrease firearm injuries and deaths.
Gun control has not been an issue in this country in years. Democrats have dropped the entire issue. They are so afraid of the NRA that even after all the horrific gun violence in our country in the last year, not a peep about any new gun control laws.

When will this insanity stop?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/06/1141136/-The-CDC-study-on-guns-shut-down

227 replies, 32529 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 227 replies Author Time Post
Reply The CDC study on guns...shut down. (Original post)
FourScore Oct 2012 OP
Hoyt Oct 2012 #1
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #3
Hoyt Oct 2012 #9
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #13
PavePusher Oct 2012 #65
Electric Monk Oct 2012 #25
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #37
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #132
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #174
G_j Oct 2012 #200
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #89
Kingofalldems Oct 2012 #33
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #55
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #90
Missycim Oct 2012 #206
Kingofalldems Oct 2012 #214
Missycim Oct 2012 #216
SecularMotion Oct 2012 #222
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #42
PavePusher Oct 2012 #66
Hoyt Oct 2012 #77
PavePusher Oct 2012 #96
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #112
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #121
Hoyt Oct 2012 #177
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #185
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #101
Lightbulb_on Oct 2012 #147
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #164
Lightbulb_on Oct 2012 #167
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #169
burrowowl Oct 2012 #2
former-republican Oct 2012 #4
Taverner Oct 2012 #224
hack89 Oct 2012 #5
former-republican Oct 2012 #6
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #14
hack89 Oct 2012 #30
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #83
hack89 Oct 2012 #105
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #130
hack89 Oct 2012 #139
hack89 Oct 2012 #142
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #184
bongbong Oct 2012 #201
hack89 Oct 2012 #202
bongbong Oct 2012 #203
hack89 Oct 2012 #204
bongbong Oct 2012 #208
hack89 Oct 2012 #211
hack89 Oct 2012 #205
bongbong Oct 2012 #207
hack89 Oct 2012 #210
bongbong Oct 2012 #215
Coexist Oct 2012 #175
hack89 Oct 2012 #188
Trunk Monkey Oct 2012 #36
intaglio Oct 2012 #17
eqfan592 Oct 2012 #19
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #26
hack89 Oct 2012 #34
hack89 Oct 2012 #31
Crunchy Frog Oct 2012 #49
hack89 Oct 2012 #53
iamthebandfanman Oct 2012 #23
hack89 Oct 2012 #32
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #106
baldguy Oct 2012 #60
hack89 Oct 2012 #61
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #84
hack89 Oct 2012 #111
baldguy Oct 2012 #117
hack89 Oct 2012 #191
Hoyt Oct 2012 #186
hack89 Oct 2012 #189
Hoyt Oct 2012 #192
hack89 Oct 2012 #193
baldguy Oct 2012 #217
hack89 Oct 2012 #218
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #80
hack89 Oct 2012 #109
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #128
hack89 Oct 2012 #135
hack89 Oct 2012 #144
Zalatix Oct 2012 #82
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #104
Zalatix Oct 2012 #127
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #136
Zalatix Oct 2012 #143
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #110
booley Oct 2012 #151
hack89 Oct 2012 #190
booley Oct 2012 #220
countryjake Oct 2012 #153
hack89 Oct 2012 #166
countryjake Oct 2012 #212
hack89 Oct 2012 #213
spanone Oct 2012 #7
Heather MC Oct 2012 #8
Hoyt Oct 2012 #10
iamthebandfanman Oct 2012 #16
eqfan592 Oct 2012 #20
iamthebandfanman Oct 2012 #22
Heather MC Oct 2012 #51
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #100
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #27
Jkid Oct 2012 #11
Hoyt Oct 2012 #40
krispos42 Oct 2012 #48
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #12
former-republican Oct 2012 #18
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #28
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #29
hack89 Oct 2012 #198
Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #133
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #181
Tumbulu Oct 2012 #15
FourScore Oct 2012 #21
Tumbulu Oct 2012 #24
PavePusher Oct 2012 #67
Paladin Oct 2012 #71
PavePusher Oct 2012 #94
Tumbulu Oct 2012 #141
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #102
xchrom Oct 2012 #35
k2qb3 Oct 2012 #38
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #97
etherealtruth Oct 2012 #39
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #46
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #114
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #113
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #41
Crunchy Frog Oct 2012 #50
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #57
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #115
Zoeisright Oct 2012 #54
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #56
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #148
glacierbay Oct 2012 #58
rawtribe Oct 2012 #81
glacierbay Oct 2012 #85
rawtribe Oct 2012 #92
PavePusher Oct 2012 #98
rawtribe Oct 2012 #107
PavePusher Oct 2012 #146
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #183
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #182
Paladin Oct 2012 #187
AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #197
hack89 Oct 2012 #194
Missycim Oct 2012 #209
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #118
porphyrian Oct 2012 #43
slackmaster Oct 2012 #44
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #45
Crunchy Frog Oct 2012 #52
PavePusher Oct 2012 #68
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #119
krispos42 Oct 2012 #47
GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #59
glacierbay Oct 2012 #62
GoneOffShore Oct 2012 #63
glacierbay Oct 2012 #64
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #72
glacierbay Oct 2012 #76
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #78
glacierbay Oct 2012 #86
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #87
glacierbay Oct 2012 #93
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #123
PavePusher Oct 2012 #69
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #120
krispos42 Oct 2012 #163
Whovian Oct 2012 #138
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #152
Whovian Oct 2012 #154
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #155
Whovian Oct 2012 #156
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #157
oneshooter Oct 2012 #170
Whovian Oct 2012 #179
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #199
sl8 Oct 2012 #158
Whovian Oct 2012 #160
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #161
krispos42 Oct 2012 #159
Whovian Oct 2012 #162
krispos42 Oct 2012 #178
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #70
slackmaster Oct 2012 #73
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #74
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #124
glacierbay Oct 2012 #75
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #79
glacierbay Oct 2012 #88
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #91
glacierbay Oct 2012 #95
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #126
PavePusher Oct 2012 #99
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #125
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #134
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #149
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #165
treestar Oct 2012 #122
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #168
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #103
glacierbay Oct 2012 #108
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #129
PavePusher Oct 2012 #150
Ya Basta Oct 2012 #171
former-republican Oct 2012 #172
hack89 Oct 2012 #195
fascisthunter Oct 2012 #116
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #131
DainBramaged Oct 2012 #137
aikoaiko Oct 2012 #140
aikoaiko Oct 2012 #145
Ilsa Oct 2012 #173
former-republican Oct 2012 #176
Ilsa Oct 2012 #219
PavePusher Oct 2012 #223
Ilsa Oct 2012 #225
hack89 Oct 2012 #196
X_Digger Oct 2012 #180
fightthegoodfightnow Oct 2012 #221
orpupilofnature57 Oct 2012 #226
Swede Atlanta Oct 2012 #227

Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 10:38 PM

1. +1.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:49 PM

3. It must be rough only getting to troll the occasional GD gun related thread NT

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:58 AM

9. No, truthfully it's refreshing not posting to people who need a gun strapped

to their body to walk out door, think guns are good for society, cheer when a gun toter shoots unarmed teenager, and worse.

Enjoy your guns.

Still, love you guys when you aren't toting or spouting NRA/riggtwing BS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:06 AM

13. Actually

It's the BEST place to talk about guns since the RKBA board seems to have forgotten another Amendment- the First.

Notice how there is NOTHING in you post about guns. Talk about trolling.

But heh, why attack the CDC study when you sarcastically and arrogantly ridicule Hoyt for what we both know to be true:

The results of their study speak for themselves: not only does owning a gun not protect you, but it increases the risk of homicide for people in the home three times, and increases the risk of suicide five times.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:56 PM

65. How odd. I don't see the government trying to interfere with D.U. anywhere.

 

Citation, please?

And you seem to think that inanimate objects cause actions. Also very odd.

Good luck with all that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:18 AM

25. You got lucky. A jury voted 3-3 on what is clearly and only a personal attack

without even an attempt to discuss the issue presented by the OP.

It's because of people like you that the gungeon exists here, and threads like this get locked in GD.

/ibtl

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Electric Monk (Reply #25)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:59 AM

37. Had the post been hidden it would have made a grand total of 2

 

that I've had hidden since I've been here (Both regarding Hoyt BTW).

Fairly strong evidence that my posting isn't all that problematic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #37)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:34 PM

132. whatever. Your post above makes DU suck.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #132)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:41 PM

174. That is of course your opinion and you are entitled to it. Good day NT

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #132)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:48 AM

200. +1000!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Electric Monk (Reply #25)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:40 PM

89. And there you have it. Just Romney-around enough, you'll get your way...

and that close vote you referenced? That's rather common here, and allows a lot of verbal upchuck to pass by the juries as: "The usual stuff. For the Gungeon."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:06 AM

33. So you accuse a long time member of trolling

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #33)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:42 AM

55. No, when the 'king of all trolls' accuses other of trolling it must be a slow day in the gun forum

after a while, thay must get tired of agreeing with each other.........







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #33)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:42 PM

90. Check out the history of this Forum/group.nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #33)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:48 PM

206. Oh so a high post count protects you?

 

I hate to break it to you, he did troll in the RKBA forum.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Missycim (Reply #206)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:08 PM

214. Trolling has one meaning in DU

And that is pretending to be a Democrat when you are actually a republican.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #214)



Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:29 AM

42. So you think it's ok to try and intimidate others in GD?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DainBramaged (Reply #42)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:58 PM

66. Wow. If you think that is "intimidation", you've led a very sheltered life.

 

I suggest you attain some more maturity, self-confidence and increase the depth of your outer integument.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #66)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:10 PM

77. I would suggest same for those who have to strap a gun or two on to venture into public.

Like they aren't prepared to use it for intimidation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #77)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:47 PM

96. Wharfgarble. What fun!! n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #77)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:22 PM

112. Do you think there's a market for adult diapers equipped with holsters?

We're talking about people who have to pinch tight when checking the mail, after all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #77)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:07 PM

121. I am required to "strap a gun on" to go to work every day

 

but I am very careful not to anythinjg that would cause a person to think I was trying to intimidate them because I was carrying a gun

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #121)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 09:40 PM

177. When you are not working, whatayoudo with your guns?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #177)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:59 AM

185. First I have to clarify that when I'm done working I'm usually home for the day

 

Since I'm not going out again (if I can help it) I have no need to "strap on a gun or two".

A duty belt is a PITA to carry around all day, when I get home it is usually the first thing that comes off and my gun (23 YO S&W 6906 nothing to drool over) goes into a holster on my night stand and the bat belt gets hung up in the closed next to tomorrow's uniform.

Having said that, if I do have to go back out I just puit the holster on my belt and go wherever I'm going.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trunk Monkey (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:58 PM

101. How's that working out for you, Trunk Monkey?

As you say, it sounds like it's pretty tough. You holding up okay? Need a bridge to nap under? Maybe a goat to munch?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #101)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 05:01 PM

147. I've seen that dog all over with your posts...

 

Why does a chihuahua have a purple mohawk?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lightbulb_on (Reply #147)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 06:38 PM

164. It's not a dog!

Gah!
It's a pony!



You are like, the third person who thinks it's a dog. Philistines, ALL OF YOU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scootaloo (Reply #164)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 06:49 PM

167. I dunno...

 

Take away the mohawk and bam... Chihuahua



Also, thanks to this conversation I just discovered the existence of "Bronies" *shudder* It's a sign of the end of days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lightbulb_on (Reply #167)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:24 PM

169. My jimmies are unrustled n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 10:46 PM

2. Sane account! K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:55 PM

4. There's needs to be laws passed that make assault , suicide and violence against other people illegal

 



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former-republican (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 12:04 PM

224. Why should Suicide be illegal?

 

And aren't there already laws stating this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:10 AM

5. So if guns are such a public health threat

why have gun deaths plummeted in the past 30 years as gun ownership has skyrocketed? Their premise that owning a gun " increases the risk of homicide for people in the home three times" would seem to imply that more guns = more deaths. Yet exactly the opposite has happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:31 AM

6. You have no business posting in this thread

 

This is a thread about emotion not logic.

Please go away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:10 AM

14. Hogwash

Plummeted?

Gun-involved homicides have increased since falling to a low in 1999.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:00 AM

30. Wrong

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

- Our murder rate has been cut in half since 1992

Here we see a drop from 2005 to 2009:

Weapons 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Total 14,965 15,087 14,916 14,224 13,636
Total firearms: 10,158 10,225 10,129 9,528 9,146


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2009

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #30)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:29 PM

83. And there is your confusion: murder rates are not total firearm related deaths.

The CDC studies were getting at the fact that firearms are a public health hazard. You translated that into "murder rate". Why would you do that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #83)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:07 PM

105. Gun deaths are down in absolute numbers too

look at my links again. Numbers and rates are down. Fewer people are dying by guns - you cannot show otherwise can you? Perhaps you could provide some actual facts for once?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #105)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:31 PM

130. you are talking about crime stats. The CDC numbers are not the same at all.

And you have been told that repeatedly. The CDC data on firearm related deaths remains around 30,000/year. It is a public health issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #130)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:47 PM

139. It is really two separate problems.

one is criminal violence. The other is a mental health issue.

The solutions are separate too - adequate mental health care for Americans and a justice system that is focused on removing violent felons from society.

You want to make it about guns. Let's fix the real problems instead.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #130)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:52 PM

142. The post specifically says that the odds of being murdered

increases threefold with a gun in the house. Why are there fewer murders if there are many more households with guns?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #142)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:05 AM

184. Math is hard.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #142)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:45 AM

201. Always a logic fail with you

 

It's really

> hy are there fewer murders if there are many more households with guns?

So "more guns" = "more households with guns"? Not "more guns = nearly same households with more guns per household"?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #201)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:05 PM

202. Feel free to provide some evidence. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #202)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:46 PM

203. LOL

 

> eel free to provide some evidence. nt

Your claim in your original post:

> Why are there fewer murders if there are many more households with guns?

You made the claim, you back it up! That's how this chatboard thing works.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #203)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:45 PM

204. So if gun ownership has steadily dropped for 30 years

Then all those concerns over gun proliferation were what? Lies to justify gun grabbing?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #204)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:02 PM

208. Strawman alert!

 

> So if gun ownership has steadily dropped for 30 years

Who said that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #208)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:14 PM

211. Either gun ownership went up or it went down. What is it? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #203)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 02:47 PM

205. Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993

Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993, albeit marginally above the 44% and 45% highs seen during that period.

Democrats' self-reported gun ownership spiked to 40% this year.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #205)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:00 PM

207. Thanks!

 

For proving your own post wrong! 50% had guns in 1991, vs. 47% today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #207)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:13 PM

210. It dropped to 40% in 1995 and continued to increase for 17 years.

There has not been a drop in 17 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #210)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:30 PM

215. LOL

 

It's always fun to watch the links provided by Delicate Flowers prove that they themselves are wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #30)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 09:10 PM

175. "Gun-involved homicides have increased since falling to a low in 1999"

yet you posted stats only through 1999 - which was the LOW point, and a very long time ago.. what are the stats after that year? You kinda proved the other poster's point unless you ante up those numbers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coexist (Reply #175)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:35 AM

188. I posted stats from 1992 through 2010

was your post intended for me?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:40 AM

36. Gun-involved homicides or homicides over all? NT

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:21 AM

17. It means more deaths of amongst households that own guns

than amongst those who do not.

It means more suicides in gun possessing households than in those that do not hold such weapons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to intaglio (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:32 AM

19. got evidence?

Evidence that takes into account the criminal behavior of the occupants of the household? Cuz that's where the studies usually fail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eqfan592 (Reply #19)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:54 AM

26. An Explanation for Everything

You got it all figured out.

Who cares what the 'criminal element' that according to you brought the guns in......NO ONE deserves to die at the hands of a gun from another simply for living in the same house.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fightthegoodfightnow (Reply #26)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:11 AM

34. So what is your solution? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to intaglio (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:01 AM

31. But with more household having guns

why would there be fewer deaths?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:04 AM

49. Maybe it has to do with more trauma centers and better trauma surgeons.

Maybe someone who would have died 20 years ago can be saved today. I wonder what the statistics are on gun woundings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #49)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:15 AM

53. But non-fatal shootings and accidents are tracked too - and they are down.

aggravated assault is the charge when you criminally shoot someone and they survive - aggravated assaults have not gone up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:06 AM

23. suicides

are still the leading cause of gun deaths by the owner of the gun..

granted there are plenty of other ways to kill yourself..
but since a gun is typically quick and easy to accomplish the goal with..
its preferred over slower or more painful deaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:03 AM

32. But access to guns does not mean higher sucide rates

There are countries with much higher suicide rates that have draconian gun laws - Japan is the best example.

There has not been an increase in the suicide rate in America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #23)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:11 PM

106. Is it wrong that people have a quick and easy way to kill themselves?

 

Their body, their choice. Right?

Why should those who no longer wish to live be forced to kill themselves slowly/painfully?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:14 PM

60. Still spouting the same old RW propaganda bullshit, I see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #60)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:25 PM

61. Do you disagree that gun violence and deaths have significantly declined in the past 30 years?

I didn't know the FBI was a RW source.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #61)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:30 PM

84. Crime stats are not the issue here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #84)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:15 PM

111. So we have a public health issue with a declining mortality rate

and this is a big crisis?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #111)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:39 PM

117. Right: "30,000 gun deaths each year isn't a crisis." That's the GOP talking, of course.

There's no problem, just as long as the "right" people are the ones getting killed - the poor, minorities, members of the designated criminal class, and other "undesirables". It's one more way to cull the surplus population.

The trouble is that most sane people realize THERE ARE NO UNDESIRABLE PEOPLE WHO NATURALLY DESERVE TO DIE.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #117)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:47 AM

191. Suicides are a mental health problem

it is no mystery what the solution is - single payer health care with mental health coverage.

The solution to criminal violence is to focus the legal system like a laser on violent crime of every kind. The real problem to solve is violent felons - removing them from society is the solution.

There are two distinct problems with two different solutions. Your attempt to lump all gun death together may support your particular anti-gun agenda but does not engender nuanced and effective solutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #111)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:15 AM

186. Might be even less had we said "No" decades ago to those who believe more guns, in more places,


is good for society.

But, we'll putz around for another decade promoting/glamorizing guns and laxer laws so that we'll have another 100 million guns to deal with and more people walking around in public with their gun(s) on their hip. Of course, then the obstructionists will say it's too late to do anything about guns -- so more guns for everyone. What a crock of crud.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #186)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:37 AM

189. And in another decade the rates of gun violence will be even lower.

when will you move on to social ills that kill many more people than guns?

Isn't it time to start another temperance movement? It will save more lives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #189)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:11 AM

192. Maybe, maybe not. Certainly the rate will be higher than it needs to be.


And, there will be more gun carriers shooting unarmed people because the gun lobby tells us that is OK if you feel "threatened" to blast away under "stand your ground" laws, or some kid is running away with something easily replaceable out of one's car.

What is definitely true is that those who need guns close by 24/7, will come up with more and more bull to rationalize their needs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #192)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:28 AM

193. There are good reasons the gun control movement is dead in America

I wouldn't put my money on your predictions.

There are good reasons the gun control movement is dead in America - being consistently wrong in predicting the impact of gun laws is just one of them.

Time will tell. Perhaps we can discuss it in 2022.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #193)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:45 PM

217. Support for gun control is soft because it's been endlessly propagandized by the RW for 40 yrs.

Just like every other issue.

The surprising thing is that The NRA's deadly bullshit lies find a voice on a place like DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #217)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:59 PM

218. 40 percent of Dems own guns

the reason that gun control fails politically is that it is not a LW vs RW issue - as much as many here want it to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:23 PM

80. Gun deaths have not plummeted. They remain at around 30000 annually.

If you have data to back up your assertion that gun deaths have plummeted, please provide a link.

And just to be fair: the facts, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #80)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:13 PM

109. Gun deaths due to murder and manslaughter have been halved

since 1992. Criminal gun violence has plummeted by any objective measure. Suicides have held constant. Suicides are a true health issue - the answer is decent mental health care for all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #109)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:28 PM

128. yes you keep repeating that the murder rate is down.

Meanwhile that other statistic, firearm deaths, remains unchanged at about 30,000/deaths per year. That is the subject of the OP. I understand your desire to change the subject, it makes you uncomfortable, but there it is. If you would like to discuss the crime rate, and its relationship to guns, please feel free to do so, in some other thread. Instead your efforts to conflate crime rates with the CDC stat for firearm deaths, now that the difference has been repeatedly pointed out to you, is simply dishonest.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #128)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:42 PM

135. Suicides are a mental health problem

it is no mystery what the solution is - single payer health care with mental health coverage.

The solution to criminal violence is to focus the legal system like a laser on violent crime of every kind. The real problem to solve is violent felons - removing them from society is the solution.

There are two distinct problems with two different solutions. Your attempt to lump all gun death together may support your particular anti-gun agenda but does not engender nuanced and effective solutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #80)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:55 PM

144. But if the odds of.murder or suicide increase with guns

why haven't actual murders and suicides increased. Seems like the logic in the OP is flawed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:25 PM

82. That, sir or madam, is Crimethink.

 

Seriously, though, the problem is that we can't keep crazy people from owning firearms and going on shooting rampages. This is understandably driving a lot of the "ban guns" mentality. Not all of it, but a lot. We as a nation are at a complete loss as to how to fix that.

And while I'm stirring up trouble here, why can't we have a conversation about taking assault rifles from the hands of the second biggest gun nut culture* in the whole WORLD: our law enforcement network?


* Second only to the US Military

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #82)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:07 PM

104. The issue of "assault rifles" has been discussed numerous times in this forum.

First, just so we understand the terms, "assault rifles" are capable of full-auto fire (in accordance with BATF definitions). Do you have any data to indicate that civilian LEOs have "assault rifles," or just look-alike semi-auto carbines? I really don't know this figure, or if it is available. Most of the carbines I've seen in LEO hands are semi-auto.

I agree that it is very difficult if not impossible to keep guns out of the hands of mass-murderers. I posted a few days ago articles from Psychology Today which profiled the mass murderer as one who WILL NOT be deterred from obtaining arms, and WILL NOT be deterred from killing. Further, gun laws would have little bearing on the "thought process" of these celebro-punks.

Mass murder incidents serve only to re-new the completely-failed attempt to prohibit guns. I'm convinced that prohibition is America's most addictive drug.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #104)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:28 PM

127. Excellent points.

 

I have no data on whether cops use FULL auto assault rifles. Even if all they use are carbines, the number of carbines in their hands is way too high. Our police could probably fight wars with the armament they have. No militia even comes close. This doesn't bode well, considering the police are little more than minions of the Plutocracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #127)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:43 PM

136. There is an urban myth, with considerable truth to it, that cops are chronically...

under-armed. Complaints were heard at the close of the 19th century about the weak .44 and .38; hence the .38 special and the .44 special. The .357 was developed in part to satisfy LEO's concerns that even the .38 special was too weak. Auto loading pistols only came into dominance after I had left college, to keep up with criminals who were using them. Now, LEOs feel it necessary to use auto-loading carbines (AR 15s usually) because of alleged increased fire-power from the crims. But ALL categories of rifles account for only less than 3% of ALL firearms deaths. Police do point to an increased number of officers shot with carbines, but the number is low double-digits for a year, I believe.

Perhaps the push is in connection with more and more police coming from war veteran recruits who are familiar and comfortable with this class of weaponry; perhaps it is part of a general philosophy that you hit the armed suspect hard and fast with overwhelming firepower. This latter notion seems to stem from military thinking.

Too many wars and their residuals, or as Faulkner said "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #136)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 04:54 PM

143. What are they doing to research better flash-bangs and non(er, less than?)-lethal weapons?

 

BTW I greatly appreciate that historical account you gave me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 03:14 PM

110. When crime goes up the answer is clear: too many guns. More guns = more crime!

 

when it goes down the answer is less clear: there are a thousand factors at play, we can't consider guns to be that important, besides correlation doesn't prove causation.

Also suicides and self defense are the same as a murder and should all be counted together as unlawful murders committed by guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 05:13 PM

151. are there no other factors?

the study itself was done in the 90s and since then the CDC has not done any follow ups.

So there could very easily be a factor that was not the same 10 years ago: changes in culture, law enforcement, suicide and crime prevention. One study found a correlation between gun violence and honor culture.

Though even with this drop, the fact remains that we still have way more gun deaths then countries with more gun control. We've only gotten better when compared to ourselves earlier.

To me it's suspicious that studying gun violence is resisted so much.

Yes there could be some magical number of gun owners that leads to less crime. But right now the CDC can't look at that because of the pro gun advocates.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to booley (Reply #151)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:44 AM

190. But there are two seperate and distinct issues here.

Suicides and criminal violence.

Suicides are a mental health problem. It is no mystery what the solution is - single payer health care with mental health coverage.

The solution to criminal violence is to focus the legal system like a laser on violent crime of every kind. The real problem to solve is violent felons - removing them from society is the solution.

Any attempt to lump all gun deaths together may support a particular anti-gun agenda but does not engender nuanced and effective solutions. You want to make the issue guns when it is not - it is people. Lets fix the real problems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #190)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 02:06 PM

220. yes and no

suicide is a mental health issue.

BUT it's also an issue with lethality.

In short, people who attempt suicide are more successful at their attempt if there's a gun available. That's probably why the military is telling families of soldiers with PTSD to remove guns from their homes.

Not surprising as guns are very lethal, quick and easy to use.

However in both cases what the CDC was studying was the health effects of having guns around. In both cases there is a commonality.

OF course there are other possible factors that could also be affecting gun deaths.

However the OPs contention that having a gun in the house increases the odds of a gun related injury/death and your contention that crime has gone down are not exclusive. Both can be true.

MY POINT was that it's not the anti gun "agenda that's the problem. It's the anti gun control agenda.

Fact is we can both say what we think is causing this or that and what can be done about it but without research, we are both just guessing. YOU don't know for sure and neither do I or anyone else on this forum.

We trust the CDC for every other issue involving health. "Until the word "guns" gets involved and suddenly the CDC and indeed any other researcher should not be believed if they say anything negative about fire arms.

Even if the CDC here had done a bad study, the remedy for that is to do MORE studies to make up the weaknesses of the first. Except in this case. Here, the anti gun control crowd just made researching this political suicide in general and for the CDC specifically.

Which is a weird thing to do if the facts were in their favor.

We can't come up with any "nuanced and effective" solutions if we ignore anything that contradicts what we want to believe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 05:29 PM

153. Um, evidently you haven't checked the stats in Seattle lately.

Just try googling "gun violence Seattle" and then try telling us that "exactly the opposite has happened".

And also notice (if you even bother reading all of those alarming, tragic articles) that in fact, the Seattle Police have stated that most of the deaths due to guns this year had nothing to do with any gangs or known criminal elements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to countryjake (Reply #153)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 06:46 PM

166. I rather look at the annual FBI crime reports

it gives you both the entire national picture as well as making it easier to track trends from year to year. The facts nationally are simple - we have cut gun murder and man slaughter deaths in half over the past 30 years. You have to go back 50 years to find a lower murder rate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #166)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:30 PM

212. National "facts" aside, your statement simply isn't true up here in the PNW...

where we have an over-abundance of militia maniacs, loony libertarian lunks, strident "sovereign" citizens, and other odious white supremacist's clubs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to countryjake (Reply #212)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:39 PM

213. Your first problem then is your state constitution.

it grants more liberal gun rights then the US Constitution. Washington state is on the forefront of civil liberties - which is a good thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:33 AM

7. knr...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:46 AM

8. I don't agree with this study

It's only looking at the number of times the trigger has been pulled, how can you blame the poor defenseless weapon, when it's clearly the people's fault for using it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:01 AM

10. Agree - but lethal weapons embolden some folks. Georgie Zimmernan is good example.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:21 AM

16. i know right?

i mean, its not like a gun is designed specifically for something like killing or anything.. i mean gosh!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:33 AM

20. It's not. sarcasm fail on your part. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eqfan592 (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:58 AM

22. My garden would look terrible

if i didnt get to use my ole trusty metal baby to dig out the weeds!

OH and you havent lived until youve used an AR15 to get that hard to reach itch spot on ur back!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:11 AM

51. guns are people my friend!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:54 PM

100. Jeez, my gun is defective. Hasn't killed anyone in 50+ years.nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:56 AM

27. And Yet


The results of their study speak for themselves: not only does owning a gun not protect you, but it increases the risk of homicide for people in the home three times, and increases the risk of suicide five times.






.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FourScore (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 01:04 AM

11. No wonder we have no real action on gun control.

For the NRA they only care about the money, not the real lives lost to gun violence. For them the money must flow, the blood must flow, and the bodies must fall.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jkid (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 09:53 AM

40. That's a big part of it. The other part is that NRA's leadership - including Grover Norquist, John

Bolton, and worse -- is interested in right wing causes beyond just guns including beating Obama and other good Democrats in November.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jkid (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:03 AM

48. People who have guns will fight to keep them

People who don't have guns have to do absolutely nothing to continue to not have guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink