Facebook's misogyny problem

[lapislzi]

I admit I use FB quite a lot to keep up with friends and family, and also to post political comment. I chose to ignore the fact that it's used for far more nefarious purposes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/12-year-old-slut-meme-and_b_1911056.html

--snip--

What the interpreters of terms at Facebook have yet to realize is that these pages are not just "offensive" to some people. Of course they are offensive to some people and that is just fine. But, they are genuinely "threatening," "hateful," and appear to "incite violence." They represent Facebook's choices about what the company thinks is okay culturally. This isn't hard to understand. Facebook doesn't have a word problem. Or a terms problem. Or a censorship problem. It has a sexism problem. It has a puerile male norm problem, apparently well-informed by lad-mags. It has a problem with defining words like "violent" and "hate crimes" and construing how words like "punch" "die, bitch, die" "slap" "bitch" "slut" and more might not be considered "threatening" and "inciting."

Facebook censors content all the time. It makes a conscious choice NOT to censor misogynistic content.

Discuss. And, the first person who 1) tells me to make them a sandwich or 2) tells me I can't take a joke goes on "ignore." And the second, and the thirds. And so forth.

[seabeyond]

1. "NOT to censor misogynistic content." damn good thing us women "own" the B word now and no longer

offensive.

You either help change it or you actively tolerate it and encourage the perpetrators of violence by doing so.

Earlier this week I wrote about how the use of photography (especially without the subject's consent) intensifies harassment, abuse and violence against women. Quicker than I could type "Feministe" this Change.org petition appeared in my inbox: "Please sign to remove 12 Year Old Slut Memes from Facebook." One of the offending page's profile photos is of a pink-lipped and pouty child (she looks a lot younger than 12) wearing a tank top that reads "I love COCK." Now, anyone can create a page in Facebook (published at Facebook's discretion) and this page doesn't openly advocate violence against 12-year-old sluts. It is, however, the virtual equivalent of street harassment and, as such, demonstrates the way the photography serves to exponentially magnify the effects of subtle and real violence along a broad spectrum.

The page, which posts photographs of girls and women so that others can comment on their sluttiness, has more than 200,000 likes.

good thing it is only SOME men.

For example, "[Satire] Kicking a slut in the vagina and losing your foot inside" is still up and does not specify age of slut to kick and, as Cath Elliot pointed out in the Guardian last year, if "[Humor] Roses are red, violets are blue... I've got a knife, get in the van (and multiple variations thereof), is not "hateful, threatening or gratuitously violent, I don't for the life of me know what is." "Roses are red" is not controversial however, it's just plain [Humor], like these side-splittingly clever pages and communities: "Seeing a Pregnant Woman and Wanting to Punch Her In the Face" (47K); I just want to get drunk and punch the slut in the face; or, accompanied by a photo of a woman down on her knees, hair gripped in a man's hand..."got a sec you slut, Hit the deck you mut (sic)" (Note: this group appears to have been removed since the initial research for this post). "I'd Punch You if You Were a Woman" ("This is a Page fully dedicated to beating woman unmercifully! Haha kidding of course.&quot Then there's You are a Slut Get Hit by a Car and last but not least, in the less than 5 minute survey that I just undertook using search terms like "woman," "hit," "slut," and "punch," is the whole "Shut the F**k Up and Make Me a Sandwich" meme -- punctuated occasionally by hilarious photos of women bleeding and with blackened eyes and bruises. The terms "babe" and "bitch" additions are optional for the search.

it's that so many people find the idea of violence against women so entertaining and that the people running Facebook flaunt such an openly sexist and misogynistic interpretation of their policies.

[zazen]

2. you mean people tie their profiles to these sites?

I really don't want to go look at them. I take your word for it. But if it's on FB and other users "like" or comment, then doesn't that actually tie to their profile, in which case their mothers and sisters and daughters can see that they're openly advocating rape?

[Stargazer09]

4. If you "like" a page, you are linked to that page.

The default setting for Facebook allows your friends to see the pages that you like listed in your profile. In addition, the others who like that page can see who else likes the page. Facebook is not very private.

[seabeyond]

6. it is a skewed world of disrespect to women, that we women are suppose to embrace.

that is the absurdity in this all. we have been so conditioned with just being boys, lighten up, what guys do, that even us women and girls are not suppose to be bothered with this. the more we normalize it and it becomes a part of who we are, the more it subtly effects us. ALL of us.

[lapislzi]

7. If you "like" something, it appears on your profile.

So, yes.

[Stargazer09]

3. I really hate Facebook

Unfortunately, it's still the easiest way to keep up with my friends and family, who are scattered all over the world right now.

[bigwillq]

5. Like any website, you get want you want out of it.

There's always going to be things about these free sites that we don't like. If one doesn't like it, don't use. Simple as that. No one is forcing anyone to use it.

I haven't noticed the things they're talking about in this story. EDITED: I need to edit this line.
Yes, I've seen some things of that sort, but I really could care less, honestly.

There's anti-DEM, anti-repub, anti-gay, anti-catholic, anti-jewish...etc...etc...etc...posts that are posted every day. But it's a free country. That's life. Not saying it's right or wrong, but free county. If one is offended, don't join that site. There are plenty of other sites to go on.

[lapislzi]

8. That's just the point. They are selective in what they take down.

They will take down racist, anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, homophobic content. Among other things. What they don't take down is misogynistic content. I have a problem with that. If you are not applying your censorship criteria in a consistent manner, then you are tacitly condoning a certain type of bigotry.

[bigwillq]

24. Protest by not using it.

If you have a problem with it, but are still using it, then you're part of the problem.

This happens often on websites. Probably won't change anytime soon. You have options, like not visiting these sites that conduct themselves in this manner.


edit: But anti-gay, anti-whatever continues to be posted on Facebook, not just anti-women posts. They don't always take down some of those crude posts.

[lapislzi]

25. Before I give up on FB, which has its uses

And also offers some useful content, I would like to try to change its policies.

As a writer, it would be much harder to reach my target audiences without social media. It's just the way the world is now.

[bigwillq]

26. Good Luck with that.

Seriously. I applaud your effort to try and make change, but it may be a losing effort. Get what you want, get what you can, out of these social media sites but also realize that they are not perfect, and things you disagree with may continue.

[lapislzi]

27. I know. And it makes me tired.

For every incident of misogyny I call out, 2 more pop up like hydra heads.

Some sites I just can't go near, like Reddit.

And then, some man whom I may even have had some respect for, will come out with some piece of dumbfuckery that makes my eyeballs roll back in my head.

[M_M]

9. Facebook is a part of the Internet

Which has always had a misogyny problem.

[seabeyond]

10. ahhhh, racism and homophobia not allowed. misogyny, meh, deal with it. thank you so much

for recognizing and being concerned with girls and womens issues.

[lapislzi]

12. I love you, seabeyond

Just had to say that. We see eye to eye on almost everything.



At least nobody's told me to make them a sandwich yet!

[seabeyond]

13. that is good to hear. and... backatcha, woman. thank you

for posting this. i have been doing a lot of research on just the inundation of misogyny in our world today, that is so beyond with what it was in the past. the conditioning and feeding of this not only to our children, but the acceptance in the adults. and how i feel it is allowing it to lead to repugs war on women. a general ok, that women are the target. and that is ok by society as a whole.

i refuse to use facebook. i was not aware of this on facebook. so, thank you for this information.

[lapislzi]

14. I am just so sick of being told I have no sense of humor.

Because I don't find rape jokes funny, or find "flashing" for swag amusing.

Yeah, if guys had to flash their junk for Mardi Gras beads, how funny would that be? (That doesn't happen, does it??)

[seabeyond]

15. " (That doesn't happen, does it??)"

in so many things.

that is always the clue in.

[lapislzi]

16. Ugh, it is so beyond my tiny comprehension threshold

That people would degrade themselves and that other people would enjoy watching it.

That being said, I have posed nude for a photographer (yes, it really was art), and I did not feel degraded in the slightest. Some of the images were quite disturbing, as the photographer chained me up and blindfolded me, but the finished piece was quite provocative and not at all exploitative.

She also took some more conventional "arty" shots...one of which I drunkenly e-mailed to a love interest once. I hope he had/has the discretion to have deleted it by now. Kids, don't e-mail when drunk!

[seabeyond]

19. i have been addressing this with kids whenever i see it come up.

but, it is very hard for kids to truly get the ramifications of the typed word or picture being there forever.

my oldest had an experience a year ago with text. it was not the end of the world, but was embarrassing enough i think it was a good lesson for both boys. and he suffered the repercussions, which is always a good lesson.

[whathehell]

29. You got it, Seabeyond.

As Nation writer, Katha Pollitt says "Misogyny is the last acceptable prejudice of the Left".

[opiate69]

32. Inteteresting.. for the life of me, I can`t see where that poster said what you think he said

plus la change, I suppose...

[seabeyond]

35. it is dismissive. racism and homophobia is an "internet issue" and yet.... FB deals

with that.

[opiate69]

39. See, that`s not what I got out of it..

The way I read it was more "of course facebook has a misogyny problem, the whole internet does." Still kinda dismissive, but not saying "fuck it, deal with it"

[ananda]

11. This does NOT make misogyny ok.

Period

[opiate69]

33. Well then...

Looks like you and M_M agree, since he never said it made misogyny ok.

[Shitty Mitty]

40. Christ, what's the deal?

I doubt there'd be a problem if he/she were not one of us low-post sub-DUers

[xmas74]

17. I can make you a sandwich if you'd like

since one of my jobs is in a kitchen. I don't get all that many requests for sandwiches but the ones I make are pretty good.

I'm tired of all the crap I read on FB and I find myself ignoring someone on a regular basis. If it isn't something political, it's something racist or something religious or dogging other religions. And the "slut-shaming" is horrendous on FB-I don't know where to begin.

[seabeyond]

18. my husband's sandwiches are to die for. he takes the time to do all kinds of stuff

with sandwiches. i slap meat, cheese, mayo and done. lol.

i take a bite of his.... and yum.

mine, feeds me and lets me move on in life.

[xmas74]

20. I work in a catering department

so everything is about the details. The freshest available produce, slow roasted meats, lovely cheeses, fresh breads and made from scratch sauces and dressings. The amounts are measured out for maximum flavor (and costs-it is a business, after all) and everything is assembled for both taste and appearance. And they're served with freshly made potato and sweet potato chips.

I prefer to make soups. I think they're more fun, I love getting creative with leftovers and they are so comforting. I think I could make a soup out of anything left over in a fridge.

[seabeyond]

21. you are a prize, lol. coolest.

as i said, that is my hubby. the other day he was pulling spices out, and tasting them. to decide what to use. wtf? i didnt even think of that, let alone figure it would tell me what to use on something. i love it. he is like that with leftovers, also.

after 18 yrs i have gotten better. but, nothing compared. i get thrilled when i decide to add, into a recipe.

[xmas74]

22. Soups are easy.

Let him take over the sandwich department, you take over the soups.

Find some leftovers, throw them in a pot with a broth or a cream sauce. (Cream sauce is super easy to make-just a bechemal and thin it for soup). Add leftover meat if you like, add rice or pasta if you like. Heck, leftover mashed potatoes work as an excellent thickening agent. Fruit can be added to some soups for a nice flavor-apples are always nice, as is citrus zest. Always cook on low for soup-the longer it cooks, the better it tastes. Add herbs and spices to your liking.

I just love making soup.

[lapislzi]

23. My husband and daughter are epic sandwich makers.

Hubby always warms the sandwich up. Yum.

Me, I'm lucky if I can find the tuna fish in the cupboard. But ask me to roast a chicken and I am epic win.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. "Just kidding" is the first refuge of the violently ignorant when they are called on it. nt

[Taverner]

30. Wait - you're expecting a capitalist org in a capitalist country...

To not objectify people?

[lapislzi]

34. I expect censorship guidelines to be applied consistently and fairly.

Substitute another racist or other pejorative in place of "slut, bitch, etc." and your post will be removed. Apparently calling someone a slut is just fine by Facebook.

Hell, I know I'm objectified. But that doesn't mean I have to take it lying down (so to speak). I will call it as I see it, as I've always done.

[Taverner]

41. You may see them as equals. I may see them as equals. But the population at large doesn't

Equals being racist slur and bitch for example

"Slut" on the other hand, needs to be reclaimed. I am 200% "Slut" Pride

[lapislzi]

43. (high fives Taverner)

I am 110% slut. No argument there. I should have made my point clearer. There are pages that advocate violence against women. A much bigger issue.

And, the practice of "slut shaming," which I find abhorrent and an insult to all self-respecting sluts like us.

See, "slut" means "woman in charge of her own sexuality." Some men (the wrong kind) hate that.

Therein lies our problem.

[arcane1]

31. Wow... I had no idea such things were on Facebook

Now I have the creeps

[Posteritatis]

36. Facebook has 950 million users; pretty much everything's on there by now. (nt)

[lapislzi]

38. Well, that's just it. Everything ISN'T.

Post a photo of breastfeeding and it will be taken down. (Note: I have not tried this, as my child is 18 and would probably object if I tried to nurse her now).

Post something disgustingly racist or homophobic and it will be taken down.

And yet, there is a page called "Olympic Wife Beating Team." And this is OK how, exactly? (It has 39 likes, btw)

And don't even get me started on the cesspool that is Reddit.

[Brigid]

37. This is why I shun FB.

Makes my life a lot simpler.

[obamanut2012]

42. They delete breastfeeding photos

And yet allow some really nasty stuff to stay up.