General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOver 1000 PASTORS Set To DEFY IRS, Redefine ‘Separation Of Church And State’
The Alliance Defending Freedom, a group of ministries with a clearly conservative political agenda, have announced their intention to confront the Internal Revenue Service (and the U.S. Constitution) over the issue of political speech from the pulpit. A 1954 amendment to the tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. The group intends to videotape over 1000 pastors doing just that, and sending the tapes to the IRS. Their purpose is to force the government to impose sanctions on one or more of the churches, as a prelude to a court case, challenging the constitutionality of the law.
The amendment states tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, are:
absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.
Violation of this restriction may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.
According to Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel for the group, in an interview with FoxNews.com:
Were hoping the IRS will respond by doing what they have threatened. We have to wait for it to be applied to a particular church or pastor so that we can challenge it in court. We dont think its going to take long for a judge to strike this down as unconstitutional.
In a country that has seen an upswing in Christian conservatism in recent years, this could become a milestone in the direction of American politics and law. It could have far-reaching effects to uncounted social and legal spheres, affecting even or military and the reasons we go to war. If this is a first amendment issue, as is claimed, it would seem the ADFs argument is invalid; the government (in this instance the IRS) is neither prohibiting or restricting anyones free speech. Pastors and other clergy, are already free to make political endorsements from the pulpit; they have no inherent right to expect the U.S. government to exempt them from taxation, however. Political endorsement is clearly beyond the spiritual realm. Taking monetary gifts or donations while participating in the political process is simply not a free speech matter.
cont'
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/24/over-1000-pastors-set-to-defy-irs-redefine-seperation-of-church-and-state/
marmar
(77,097 posts)nt
elleng
(131,202 posts)And we can sure use their money!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)nanabugg
(2,198 posts)make the trustees liable for unpaid taxes as well as the pastor....see how long that lasts.
yardwork
(61,715 posts)Imagine how wealthy the U.S. would be if the Catholic Church and Mormon Church paid taxes on their income. We would solve the healthcare problem, along with housing and education.
Segami
(14,923 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)What about donations? would those be taxable?
Bryant
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I don't know what that threshold is but i think it's in the thousands.
Bryant
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)but thanks for looking that up.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)If i have 1000 friends and each gives me 12 bucks - I've received $12,000 and I'm fine - but i I make a new friend and he gives me my 12 bucks, well, than I'm over - if it is money received. However if it is money given, I'm fine - everybody can give me up to $12,000.
Bryant
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)to need to pay taxes on 24,000.00.
(Actually it is 13,000 now. Used to be 12,000.)
yardwork
(61,715 posts)The churches have a very sweet deal. They coerce millions of people into giving them billions of dollars, and they don't pay a dime in taxes. In return, all they have to do is call themselves a religious organization and stay somewhat out of politics. In fact, most churches are deeply involved in politics. They barely skirt outside the letter of the law and they violate it's spirit all the time.
If the churches want to escalate this, fine. We could use the tax revenue.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Tax the bastids!
DiverDave
(4,887 posts)Ding,Ding,Ding, we have a winnah.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)this idiotic challenge?
Bryant
yardwork
(61,715 posts)I don't know what you mean by reform. Most churches play by the rules. Those who don't are no longer churches and should be taxed just like other for-profit entities.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)while maintaining a ' tax exempt ' status, then they will become nothing more than political propaganda machines of either parties with access to unlimited charitable funds & donations (political bribery). Jesus will have a political party affiliation.
we can do it
(12,205 posts)cr8tvlde
(1,185 posts)Totally serious. I think it would be like the secret filming of Mitt...normal people aghast.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Just go ahead and politicize from the pulpit, and let the IRS come after you.
bamacrat
(3,867 posts)They should be taxed either way, but if they are going to do this then tax the hell out of them...no pun.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)stupid fucks have been doing this for years with a wink and a nod. now they want to stick in the face of all the rest of us that play by the rules.
Initech
(100,108 posts)Would be a far scarier threat to our election process than any number of Citizens United decisions ever could. The last thing we want in this country is a fundamentalist theocratic dictatorship in this country.
Blue Idaho
(5,060 posts)Lose your tax exempt status. Time to tell your pastor or priest, congress critters, and the White House what they risk losing when they use their pulpit as a political tool.
Use your freedom of speech to let those in a proctected status know what they risk when they pick sides in a political contest.
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)then tax the fucklights out of them. If they don't pay slap a lien on the church and lock the doors.
Seems like a win-win situation to me.
FedUpWithIt All
(4,442 posts)Titus 3
Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
I've posted this already today but it seems appropriate here as well...
Republican Jesus.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)spanone
(135,900 posts)lame54
(35,331 posts)we could use the cash
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Take our money, play by our rules.
Has the IRS been alerted? How does one start with that.
spanone
(135,900 posts)malaise
(269,219 posts)Make them pay their taxes and see how far the rats run.
LiberalFighter
(51,170 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)use to fund my entire lifestyle, and will also use it to endorse liberal candidates. Two can play at this game.
NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)accept the conditions to do so. Religious institutions like churches are not tax-exempt because they're religious; they're tax-exempt because they are registered as non-profits.
If any non-profit, including a church, wants to play politics, they are free to do so. However, they must then pay their taxes like everyone else.
northoftheborder
(7,575 posts)I would like to know who exactly are members of this group. I went to the link, but all I could find was a list of other organizations joining in this alliance. I suppose you might check each of those, to see individual names or churches - has anyone pursued this?
Segami
(14,923 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)They can't be controlled by the government, they can't be made to marry people they don't want to marry, they can't be made to be inclusive if they don't want to be, and they don't have to pay taxes. They need to think long and hard about whether they want to give up all those things.
jmowreader
(50,567 posts)because if these 1000 preachers want to challenge the IRS by endorsing from the pulpit and sending videos of them doing it to the IRS, the IRS should respond by revoking every church's tax-exempt status. Forget picking one or two to send a message: revoke ALL their tax exemptions and send them nice fat bills.
Then notify the rest of the churches that the IRS has NO problem with doing it as many times as is necessary until these guys learn that rules mean what they say.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)If the IRS rises to the bait, this bunch of pricks will have the money and will to fight this to the SCOTUS and this (conservative activist) SCOTUS will side with them.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)If they do, the churches will sue and it will go all the way to the US Supreme Court. Both sides would appeal any lower court ruling.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)jackbenimble
(251 posts)Let them take deductions for any charitable work they perform. That way the shams who are just hiding under the guise of being a religious organization won't benefit unless they actually do something worth while.
Maybe this 'protest' will be the catalyst to start us moving in that direction.