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Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:41 PM

"Gog and Magog??"

Heard this interview on DemocracyNow! this morning. Bizarre exchange between Bush and Chirac as W tries to convince the French president to support him in his invasion of Iraq.

"500 Days": Author Kurt Eichenwald’s New Account of How Bush Admin Ignored Warnings Before 9/11

NERMEEN SHAIKH: One of the most interesting accounts in your book is of President Bush trying to persuade—then-President Bush trying to persuade French President Jacques Chirac to support U.S. military action in Iraq. You write that Bush said to Chirac, quote, "Jacques, you and I share a common faith. You’re Roman Catholic, I’m Methodist, but we are both Christians committed to the teachings of the Bible. We share one common Lord." Bush goes on to say, quote, "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. Biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase His people’s enemies before a new age begins," end-quote. Can you elaborate on that exchange?

KURT EICHENWALD: That was a very interesting day when I heard that. This was a phone call—at that point, Chirac had been expressing a great deal of doubt about the intelligence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. His doubts obviously were well placed. And Bush was trying to get a unified—you know, unified effort behind getting a resolution from the U.N. and then for military action. And Chirac was not being particularly cooperative, for the very reason he didn’t trust the intelligence. And so there’s this phone call, and Bush is, you know, giving many reasons why France should become part of a—why Chirac should be joining in. And he’s not having a lot of success. And suddenly you shift into this religious conversation.

And Chirac’s response to this was, you know, he gets off the phone—and other people had been—you know, had been in on the call, and he looks at his staff and says, "Does anyone know what he was talking about?" And they—his administration, someone there reaches out to an expert on the Bible in Switzerland, and this person—because it’s like, what is Gog and Magog? And this person writes up a report for—I mean, I just say this, and it’s surreal. He writes a report for the French president explaining these biblical terms that were cited by the president of the United States in this national security conversation. And Gog and Magog are two—are from two the books of the Bible, one the Book of Ezekiel and one the Book of Revelation. And it is central elements in, you know, the apocalyptic—you know, the Armageddon concept. And so, Chirac’s response when he reads this is, "I’m dealing with a fanatic, and I’m not going to make, you know, national security decisions for France based on someone—you know, the president’s interpretation of the Bible."


Democracy Now!

Très bizarre!

22 replies, 3101 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Gog and Magog??" (Original post)
KansDem Sep 2012 OP
get the red out Sep 2012 #1
Are_grits_groceries Sep 2012 #4
luvspeas Sep 2012 #2
Whisp Sep 2012 #3
xchrom Sep 2012 #6
MNBrewer Sep 2012 #16
LynneSin Sep 2012 #5
tabasco Sep 2012 #22
pscot Sep 2012 #7
hunter Sep 2012 #8
rock Sep 2012 #15
Arugula Latte Sep 2012 #9
NuttyFluffers Sep 2012 #10
Philothea Sep 2012 #11
TalkingDog Sep 2012 #14
Luminous Animal Sep 2012 #12
redqueen Sep 2012 #13
LiberalAndProud Sep 2012 #21
Bucky Sep 2012 #17
Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #18
Cleita Sep 2012 #19
undeterred Sep 2012 #20

Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:51 PM

1. I read something about that at some point

I don't recall when, but I had read something about that strange conversation before. What always gets me about Fundamentalists like Bush is even if they really believe that stuff literally, the idea that they can somehow influence "God's Will" or "God's Plan" (as they would put it) with their efforts is completely bizarre. It's like they push their God, and Armageddon as inevitable but still think he needs their help in making sure nearly everybody dies.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:58 PM

4. I know Gog and Magog.

They live down the road a piece from my grandmama. They have an old beaten up trailer and eleventy billion old messed up cars around it. My uncle said they have a still in the swamp, but they drink everything they made.
I don't know how they got to the Middle East seeing as how they were lucky if they turned the right way to go to the store that was 2 miles away on the same road.
Whatever they are up to, it can't be helpful.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:55 PM

2. Just horrifying!

W was running a religious-based government this entire time. He needs to be put in prison for starting an illegal war and he needs to go to hell after he passes from this world.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:55 PM

3. oMagog! what an idiot. n/t

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Response to Whisp (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:01 PM

6. I see what you did there

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Response to Whisp (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:36 PM

16. Er mer gerd

Gerg n Mergerg

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 04:59 PM

5. BTW the Methodists were one of the religious leaders who wanted to meet with Bush before the war...

and ask him to NOT go to war with Iraq.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 09:55 PM

22. The Methodists strongly opposed the war

before it was cool.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:04 PM

7. That boy aways was soft-headed

Barb must of dropped him when he was little.

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Response to pscot (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:22 PM

8. I think it was the sound that kills...



(Gog and Magog are the robots in this movie...)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_(film)

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Response to pscot (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:32 PM

15. Or Papa Bush must have tossed him in the air a lot

in a house with low ceilings.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:36 PM

9. Tens of thousands of people slaughtered because of silly stories from the desert 2,000 years ago...

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:37 PM

10. not awestruck, but terribly amused, by this bit of news.

yep, sounds about right. but then i already knew who Gog and Magog (juj & majuj in arabic, if you please) were. the man was a religious fanatic and saw himself an agent for god's will on earth -- to do violence.

nothing i didn't already expect, but so entertaining to hear the french elites flabbergasted by the revelation.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 05:50 PM

11. Skull & Bones members were given nicknames...

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Response to Philothea (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:08 PM

14. Which is a bit Freudian in an Oedipal sort of way.

Given that W thought Magog was considered an ultimate bad guy who hated the chosen people and wanted to destroy them, so they must be destroyed first....


Hmmmm.......

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:00 PM

12. We've killed hundreds of thousands and created millions of underfed, ill-housed, and ailing

refugees based on Bush's religious fanaticism.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:07 PM

13. This Gog and Magog stuff with respect to the Middle East has been around a while.

Not sure when it started but I remember hearing it in the 80's.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 09:53 PM

21. Since 1843 at least.

http://www.ldsresources.net/white-horse-prophecy/
“Those that come to you will try to keep the laws and be one with you, for they will see your unity and the greatness of your organization. The Turkish Empire or the Crescent will be one of the first powers that will be disrupted, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to he preached in the Holy Land.

-snip-

At this point he made a pause, and looking up as though the vision was still in view, he said. “There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese unless great care and protection are given.” Speaking of the heathen nations he said, “Where there is no law there is no condemnation, and this will apply to them. Power will be given the White Horse to rebuke nations afar off, and they will be one with the White Horse, but when the law goes forth they will obey; for the law will go forth from Zion. The last great struggle Zion will have to contend with will be when the whole of the Americas will be made the Zion of our God. Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog (some of the world led by the Russian Czar) and their power will be great, but all opposition will be overcome and then this land will be the Zion of our God.”

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 06:48 PM

17. This would be scarier if Bush had had the ability to sustain a train of thought in his head.

Being a non-thinker at heart, he might latch onto crazy shit like that from moment to moment, when he was away from his advisors and handlers for a second. But once the grown ups showed back up, they'd redirect his frivolous ass back to a reasonable line of thought--albeit the line that red directly through the looting of Iraq's wealth in the name of US national security.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:17 PM

18. Christianists with death wishes.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:20 PM

19. I remember that, but at the time there was so much bizarro and incomprehensible

words coming out of the Shrub's mouth, it didn't get the attention it deserved.

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Response to KansDem (Original post)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:28 PM

20. It would be easier if he were consistent about it.

But most Christian fundamentalists move around with 2 incompatible sets of mental furniture. If there is a piece missing from one set, they just bring in a non matching piece from the other set.

Here we go:

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