Bernie Sanders Fed Audit (prepare yourself to be ticked off)

[lovuian]

here is the Fed Audit folks by the GAO
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

It seems are tax dollars have gone to banks over seas

"As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world," said Sanders. "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else."


Among the investigation's key findings is that the Fed unilaterally provided trillions of dollars in financial assistance to foreign banks and corporations from South Korea to Scotland, according to the GAO report. "No agency of the United States government should be allowed to bailout a foreign bank or corporation without the direct approval of Congress and the president," Sanders said.

For example, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase served on the New York Fed's board of directors at the same time that his bank received more than $390 billion in financial assistance from the Fed. Moreover, JP Morgan Chase served as one of the clearing banks for the Fed's emergency lending programs.

In another disturbing finding, the GAO said that on Sept. 19, 2008, William Dudley, who is now the New York Fed president, was granted a waiver to let him keep investments in AIG and General Electric at the same time AIG and GE were given bailout funds. One reason the Fed did not make Dudley sell his holdings, according to the audit, was that it might have created the appearance of a conflict of interest.

To Sanders, the conclusion is simple. "No one who works for a firm receiving direct financial assistance from the Fed should be allowed to sit on the Fed's board of directors or be employed by the Fed," he said.



After 100 years ...we find that the FED is corrupt and out of control

we didn't authorize the Fed to bail out corporations and banks over seas with US tax dollars and they expect the American people to delay their Social Security and cut Medicaid and Medicare because of Feds policies


Its over the Fed has to be restrained

[ananda]

1. More shame...

... now added to our country's mountain.

[lovuian]

2. I have to commend Bernie Sanders Alan Grayson Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul

Last edited Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

for exposing the Truth about the corruption of Alan Greenspan and others

the American people DEMAND this STOP!

[banned from Kos]

3. Royal Bank of Scotland is a US chartered bank - this nonsense has been pointed out

many times.

RBS has headquarters in Great Britain. Royal Bank of Canada is also a US bank - HQed in Canada.

But go ahead and work yourselves up about nothing. These loans were all repaid with interest.

[99Forever]

12. Right on schedule.

I guess the gentleman that informed me that you were a constant apologist for the Banksters and other 1%er crooks was correct. Perhaps DU should take a lesson from Kos.

[sabrina 1]

25. Thank you for defending the Banks, we expect no less of you and no thread on the massive

corruption of Wall Street would be complete without someone representing the other side.

[laundry_queen]

98. Not.

Royal Bank of Canada is a Canadian bank with a US subsidiary called RBC Bank.

[banned from Kos]

158. Nevertheless the US subsidiary enjoys Fed or OCC regs and

privileges. IOW - they serve US customers.

[laundry_queen]

189. Whatever. Care about accuracy hence my post. nt

[The Doctor.]

229. Soooooo.... did you miss that whole 'conflict of interest' thing?

[savannah43]

248. Really! The "appearance" of a conflict of interest is a problem, but an actual

conflict of interest is perfectly acceptable.

[The Doctor.]

292. You forgot the sarcasm tag-thingy.

[sulphurdunn]

245. Interesting.

In a global financial system, what is an American bank? Is the Federal Reserve the reserve bank of the United States or the global banking system? Is the US a sovereign nation, governed by representatives elected by the people, responsible for the stability of its currency, or is it run for the benefit of international banks, foreign or domestic, with meaningless American charters or branches in Topeka? In many ways, the implications of the financial and political relationships that permitted such loans are far more alarming than the loans themselves, repaid or not.

[Cleita]

4. Bernie and the honest members of congress are trying to do something about this

but keep hitting a brick wall with the Grand Old Obstructionist Party in Congress. Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, are you reading this?

[Autumn]

5. Meanwhile, lesser connected Americans lost their homes and jobs

and got no fucking bail out.

[SammyWinstonJack]

277. Banks got bailed out..WE GOT SOLD OUT! But hey, THANK GOD IT PASSED!

Banks...too big to fail and the average American? Too small to matter.

[Autumn]

282. Too small indeed.

[xFiFtyOnE]

6. Harry Reid is blocking a senate vote for an audit of the Fed.

Ron Pauls bill to audit the Fed passed the House and Harry says he won't let the bill see the light of day in the Senate. Kind of odd he opposes an audit of the Fed now, their is video of him on Youtube as recently as 2 years ago calling for an audit of the Fed. But now since the anti-Fed push is coming strong from Republicans he must play blue team vs red team despite the good of the American people.

[LSK]

20. You DO know that the Majority Leader has to vote with a filibuster to bring it back up again

RIGHT?????

[Skip Intro]

187. Why is that? Why is that? Why is that? Why is that?

Do we not have a right to know what this non-governmental agency is doing with our money?

Do we not have a right to ask why we do not control our own money?

Do we not have a right to ask why this agency doesn't require the approval of the president or congress to take action and form policy?

I'm with Paul on this.

This Audit the Fed bill passed the House. Reid has said he supports the idea. Why is he blocking it now?

Why is that?

[fascisthunter]

7. it won't be... and take note of posters who do not object to this

however seem adamant that Assange needs to be prosecuted or the OWS is a negative rather than a positive. I LOVE stating the obvious.

[sabrina 1]

28. Sixteen trillion! Going to bailout foreign banks. Why is this not illegal?

And yes, the lack of outrage is remarkable.

We have at least one member of the Senate trying to represent the people.

Bernie Sanders is a national treasure putting to shame all those who remain silent or who actively try to cover this up.

In the end, it is not the words of our enemies that we will remember, but the silence of our friends MLK

[fascisthunter]

33. I am a keen observer, and one thing I will not tolerate is dishonesty

especially here on DU. There are frauds here and I want them banned. I make no secret of how I feel anymore, because doing so, does no good at all.

PS... do not agree with me, to protect yourself.

[Zalatix]

38. The Third Way infection is now at 'wildfire' status.

To borrow a quote from "Walking Dead"...

[fascisthunter]

40. a minority that DU props up

just as the media props up the right wing.

[sabrina 1]

45. I do agree with you and do not want to be part of any forum

where Progressive ideals are challenged on a daily basis. I would like to know what exactly are the Democratic positions on issues now, as every day I come here now I find myself battling right wing talking points, something I recognize having spent my first few years online doing so.

Maybe there needs to be a clearer statement on what is considered the Democratic Party platform. Maybe it's due to the fact that so many Progressives have simply stopped posting here that the viewpoints of the right are more obvious, or maybe not.

But I for one will never excuse or accept the exoneration of War Criminals or the protection of the Wall Street criminals who destroyed the Middle Class in this country.

Maybe it is Progressives who need to be banned from this site. And that's fine, just make it clear, but I came here initially because I understood this to be a Democratic site that supported progressive ideals and made no excuses for War Criminals or any other Right Wing ideas. If that is no longer the case it would be only fair to make that clear so that those of us who have not changed our principles do not waste any more time.

[lovuian]

50. This isn't about party Its about out and out CORRUPTION

in our most IMPORTANT and SACRED part of AMERICA ...The US TREASURY

FRAUD CORRUPTION to the toll of 16 trillion dollars must be HALTED

Congress sits back and lets it happen after the Partial Audit indicates FRAUD is there

then Congress forfeits its rights ...they are complicit to Fraud and Corruption

the Partial Audit ...has shown enough to the American people


They were right in the Occupy Protest ....Socialism for the Rich has been the name of the game

and stealing from American's future and children

This is World War III ....Economic attack 101 on the American government

[sabrina 1]

56. I totally agree with you and do not expect to see any defense of this on a Democratic

forum at least. And yet, we do.

[banned from Kos]

60. Why do you hate debtors and the unemployed? Seriously?

Cheaper dollars and low interest rates create jobs.

[sabrina 1]

67. Why are you always defending the corruption on Wall Street? Seriously?

The destruction of the Middle Class, the pre-meditated criminal intent to defraud the public. The illegal foreclosures, the outright fraudulent practices that have created the worst economic inequality in this country's history. Why are you always in the forefront defending this?

And why were you banned from Kos? And you never answered my question regarding where I remember you from?

[banned from Kos]

69. I blame Republicans. N/T

[lovuian]

76. Corruption destroyed the Roman Empire

America is under attack by rampant corruption
the PARTIAL Audit shows 16 Trillion dollars of CORRUPTION

[lovuian]

71. as far as I am concerned any American who opposes a Full Audit

is a TRAITOR to the America

We need to know what has been going on with the Federal Reserve

They have violated the Trust of the American people

I understand keeping banks afloat with the FDIC but to keep AIG GE and JP Morgan
afloat when Lehman was closed ...and then we have the Derivative mess which has NOT STOPPED


Iceland is right throw all these corrupt SOBS and we now know their names

we know who you are

The Audit is PROOF that Corruption rules the day
if we stop the corruption that will reduce our deficit

[banned from Kos]

83. The GAO (Congress) conducts a full audit! Get a grip, man! Here it is..

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/rptcongress/annual08/pdf/audits.pdf

Knock yourself out.

[lovuian]

91. The GAO Audit will come out in Oct 18

Bernie's comment
A more detailed GAO investigation into potential conflicts of interest at the Fed is due on Oct. 18, but Sanders said one thing already is abundantly clear. "The Federal Reserve must be reformed to serve the needs of working families, not just CEOs on Wall Street."









thanks for the 2007 and 2008 report

The Federal Reserve needs reform

[gateley]

145. Once the full audit is released, who would be responsible for DOING something - who has that power?

And, does it say they did anything illegal? I'm guessing they knew all the tricks. I'm so fucking tired of people, corporations and institutions HURTING America yet skating because of the laws the Big Boys have in place allowing this shit.

So, if it's not technically illegal, what can we DO? Even if it is, I haven't been too impressed by Holder's DOJ.

[lovuian]

173. I know the Federal Reserve came to Congress for the TARP bailout

The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis.

TARP allows the United States Department of the Treasury to purchase or insure up to $700 billion of "troubled assets," defined as &quot A) residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before March 14, 2008, the purchase of which the Secretary determines promotes financial market stability; and (B) any other financial instrument that the Secretary, after consultation with the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, determines the purchase of which is necessary to promote financial market stability, but only upon transmittal of such determination, in writing, to the appropriate committees of Congress."[3]


Congress Treasury and Federal Reserve


Banks that received bailout money had compensated their top executives nearly $1.6 billion in 2007, including salaries, cash bonuses, stock options, and benefits including personal use of company jets and chauffeurs, home security, country club memberships, and professional money management.[73] The Obama administration has promised to set a $500,000 cap on executive pay at companies that receive bailout money,[74] directing banks to tie risk taken to workers' reward by paying anything further in deferred stock.[75] Graef Crystal, a former compensation consultant and author of "The Crystal Report on Executive Compensation," claimed that the limits on executive pay were "a joke" and that "they're just allowing companies to defer compensation."[76]

In November 2011, a report showed that the sum of the government's guarantees increased to $7.77 trillion; however, loans to banks were only a small fraction of that amount.[77]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Assets_Relief_Program

[xiamiam]

250. true ..the old is not the new unfortunately.

We're not supposed to be outraged because its an election season. I'm an American and a citizen of the planet first..a democrat after that. The biggest thing I learned here, is that some have those priorities and morality confused. My eyes are wide open at this point in time and I would have bet almost everything 4 years ago that some of this corruption would have been addressed. Its all a sham..all of it...until everyone wakes up and accepts responsibility beyond partisan lines. Jamie Dimon is a criminal yet admired by and maybe even a future member of this administration. Oh well. The other guy is worse. What a joke.

[woo me with science]

165. +1 Yes, always instructive to note the patterns.... nt

[xFiFtyOnE]

8. The audit Sanders posted was just a partial audit.

The $16 trillion stolen by the banks is likely just the tip of the iceberg. S.202, the Senate version being blocked as mentioned in my previous post, would require a FULL audit before the end of 2012.

[banned from Kos]

9. The Fed is audited by Deloitte - the premier audit firm in the world

Ron Paul's "audit" is a bunch of stupid bullshit designed to move to a gold standard.

No one "stole" $16 trillion. Come up for air, dude.

[xFiFtyOnE]

11. I frankly don't care.

If we move to a gold standard or another fiat currency. As long as this time that currency is issued by the United States government, not the private, for profit banking cabal known as the Federal Reserve. You enjoy them running your life?

[banned from Kos]

13. The Fed is not private - someone is lying to you.

If the Fed were private Paultards would be worshiping it.

ALL THE PROFITS from the Fed go to taxpayers and the Fed Board is appointed by the POTUS and confirmed by the Senate.

[xFiFtyOnE]

18. OK.

The Fed is not private aye? Then was does the Fed buy Treasury Bonds? Why would the one branch of the government buy debt from the rest of the government? Please tell me more?

[LSK]

21. why has Social Security bought Treasury Bills? Is Social Security private??

[xFiFtyOnE]

27. It's a trust fund.

A trust fund is a little different than when the Fed lends money that didn't exist(you could call it "printing" but it's all digital) to the U.S. government therefore expanding the money supply(inflation).

[LSK]

55. and inflation is a big problem for the past ooohhh like 20 years or so??

[banned from Kos]

89. Paultards and goldbugs think so!

while prices are falling in oil, gas, and coal.

[banned from Kos]

24. Good question. The Fed buys Treasuries to expand the money supply.

The Fed does indeed "create" money out of thin air to buy real AAA bonds like Treasuries. The interest earned on the Treasuries is repaid to the Treasury.

Conservatives HATE this practice and call it "monetizing the debt" - which it is in part. The net result is this - it helps DEBTORS repay loans with more available dollars.

I am on the DEBTORS side - not the banks.

And so is the Fed when it expands monetary supply (like now).

[xFiFtyOnE]

31. With more dollars you lessen the value of the dollar.

The "trickle down" effect doesn't work with inflation. Those at the bottom of the pyramid only see an increase in prices. But hey, it's great for those who get to see the money first, banks etc.

[banned from Kos]

51. Which helps debtors and only hurts people with large cash positions

That is the point.

[JDPriestly]

200. It depends, seems to me. If you increase the number of dollars and at the same

time, productivity increases, then prices which are defined as the value of goods in terms of money might stay the same or even become lower.

If you produce ten ears of corn in year one with each ear selling to the consumer for $1.00 and then you produce 20 ears of corn in year two with each ear costing the same to produce, the corn might be sold to the consumer for only 50 cents, assuming that the number of buyers for ears of corn remained the same.

I think that it isn't a matter of the dollar having an absolute value that can be threatened if more dollars are printed (although that is one possibility) but rather of the availability of dollars to express market values -- supply and demand values.

The mistake people make is to think of the dollar as having a static value. It doesn't. Money is the symbol for the flow of energy, of work, of resources and of goods. Money is just a symbol. Increasing the money supply way out of proportion with the increase of productivity is a problem.

But compare the cost of a PC now and 20 years ago. There is a huge difference. Part of it is because the labor is being very poorly paid, but part of it is because the process for making PCs and the amount of resources and materials required to produce one have been drastically reduced.

So the Fed could increase the money supply and you might be able to generally predict inflation, but it would not necessarily be true -- especially in this age when everything is being produced and marketed more efficiently and more cheaply.

The recession brought price deflation, not price inflation.

[banned from Kos]

240. agree in full

massive amounts of money was lost in 2008 - not currency but M3 (assets).

The Fed says $15 trillion was lost -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphic.png

[Loudestlib]

34. inflation

It also causes inflation which raises prices mostly on the poor. Easing was needed in the beginning to fight deflation but they may have over used it.

[BobbyBoring]

257. The FED is private

And one of the biggest hoaxes ever pulled on the American people.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fed_reserve.htm

[girl gone mad]

273. The Fed is quasi-private.

Profits and losses accrue to the government, but it's the private banking cartel that reaps virtually all of the benefits of Fed's policies such as ZIRP and quantitative easing.

The Fed was largely responsible for blowing up the housing bubble, driving up commodities prices, punishing retirees and savers to prop up zombie banks, requiring the government to pay interest to banks for issuing our own sovereign currency. It's way past time to end this Fed.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Ron Paul is a fucking nut.

[Loudestlib]

36. no

He's a guy who owns some gold mines...

[xFiFtyOnE]

44. He's been buying gold an mining stocks since Nixon delinked the dollar from gold.

Seems like he knows a thing or two about monetary policy. Call him crazy all you want but he bought gold when it was around $35 and ounce and is now like $1,600 an ounce. Seems pretty smart to me.

[Loudestlib]

47. That was a good buy..

..but I think his monetary policy is self-serving.

[lovuian]

48. It seems a group of people are trying to destroy America

by destroying our economy and the dollar

in this Audit we see the name of the people participating in this plan of destruction

Congress after it reads this Audit will have to conduct the FULL Audit

Corruption is RAMPANT through out the Fed and Banks and Corporations

Some people have to go to prison for Fraud

if they don't do it
NOBODY is going to put money into our banks and corporations

we are talking about cleaning house ...Glass Steagell

[Vanje]

37. Fuck Ron Paul

yes , Do.

[sabrina 1]

52. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson? Are they nuts too?

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Ron Paul is a fucking nut.

[Zalatix]

62. You did NOT answer the question. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson? Are they nuts too?

[LSK]

64. I dont see Bernie Sanders going around trying to deregulate everything and spewing free trade BS

[sabrina 1]

73. But you do see Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson demanding that the Fed be audited.

Are they nuts too?

[lovuian]

115. The Partial Audit showed MASSIVE CORRUPTION in the FEDERAL RESERVE

as a result the Asking for the Audit was JUSTIFIED
now we are asking for a FULL AUDIT

and Congress will be put in the Spotlight on voting for it


the damage is already done
Corruption was found in the trillions

[Zalatix]

82. I don't see why Ron Paul even got brought into this discussion.

Seeing as the OP is about something that BERNIE SANDERS said.

[LSK]

94. I didnt but why are you defending him on a progressive website

What did you expect?

[Zalatix]

103. That is a bald-faced lie. I have never defended Ron Paul. You have never seen me do so.

Ron Paul was mentioned in an attempt to distract the thread from Bernie Sanders' audit of the Fed and his discovery of $16 trillion in thefts from US taxpayers.

Ron Paul has no relevance to this thread.

[banned from Kos]

65. They are political opportunists.

No serious liberal economist is spouting this Audit the Fed bullshit.

[sabrina 1]

74. Finally, just as I expected. Why did it take you so long?

So two of the most respected progressives are inyo, 'political opportunists'. Shameful to see this here so blatantly on this forum. But at least you have revealed yourself at last.

[Zalatix]

85. There was no reason to bring Ron Paul into this thread. None at all.

[sabrina 1]

92. A very transparent ploy, and a weak one. I just wanted to give the poster the opportunity

to explain why such well respected Progressives as Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders support Auditing the Fed. As you saw, he revealed what many have suspected for a long time, he views these Progressives who actually work FOR the people, as 'political opportunists'. I am appalled that these views are acceptable on this board.

[Zalatix]

110. We have a very schizophrenic situation on the DU.

On one hand you can be PPR'd for expressing right wing opinions.

On the other hand you can spout right wing opinions all day long and say "this is an all-inclusive, big tent party".

It's turning into a house built on WILDLY shifting sands.

[sabrina 1]

121. Well, I have not alerted on the posts trashing a Democrat as a 'political oppurtunist'

who is currently running for Congress to try to help regain our control of Congress, even though I believe that may be a TOS violation. I do think it's time that these views, usually cleverly hidden and avoided, now made clear, need to be seen to be believed.

Trashing Sanders and Grayson to try to defend the corruption on Wall Street and for their efforts to work for the American People, a hard enough job to do, and to see a member of this board delight in the fact that Grayson was beaten by Wall Street money, is something I would have thought would be at least hideable.

But things are not as they used to be, and that comment appears to be getting support, however cleverly the support is couched in the 'Ron Paul' meme.

I like to know where I stand and this thread has been extremely revealing.

[Zalatix]

133. The way to win is to outlast, and to stay on message.

[Zalatix]

80. Bernie Sanders is a political opportunist? What proof do you have of that?

[sabrina 1]

97. Amazing, isn't it? Trashing good Democrats and Bernie Sanders who always

caucuses with the Democrats, is now openly stated on this board. I'm wondering if that violates the TOS of this board. Grayson is running for Congress and right here on DU he has been trashed, called a 'political opportunist'.

[Zalatix]

100. And likening Bernie Sanders to Ron Paul, definitely a troll move worthy of a hide.

[truedelphi]

256. Remember a guy called Kucinich?

He received the same sorry treatment. From the supposed Dems here.

[banned from Kos]

112. Yes, he is. Democrats don't support this Audit the Fed bullshit.

Most Senate Democrats voted to reappoint Bernanke after President Obama's lead.

If you don't like it go find another party.

[Zalatix]

116. Alan Grayson disagrees. BTW he is also running for office as a Democrat.

Calling him a political opportunist is probably against TOS.

[sabrina 1]

192. Wrong again. More than half of our elected Democrats in Congress

voted for the latest bill to audit the Federal Reserve. It was sponsored by an amazing 315 members, a record in bi-partisan support for any bill. And a reflection on what the people want.

And over 80% of the American people support NOT bailing out crooked banks and holding Wall Street accountable. Not a single Democrat I know personally opposes what Bernie and Alan Grayson and the rest of the Dems voted for.

Democrats want accountability, transparency, they are not like Republicans, in favor of covering up the shenanigans of the thieves on Wall Street.

As for the Senate, Harry Reid may have to change his mind, as he will be hearing from the people on this. And when he does, the rest of them will get on board and do the right thing. He does not right now represent the Democratic people who have shown in polls where they stand on these issues. It's past time he starts listening.

[Zorra]

247. Fail. "Economists Opposing Fed Audit Have Undisclosed Fed Ties"

Economists Opposing Fed Audit Have Undisclosed Fed Ties

Meanwhile, a broad coalition of liberal organizations is lining up behind the Paul-Grayson amendment, which also has the backing of most Republicans on the committee.

The AFL-CIO and other labor groups, as well as Americans for Financial Reform signed on to a letter posted Wednesday calling for committee members to back the Paul-Grayson approach.

Generally, those who oppose audits either do so because they have much to hide, or, for some reason, support those who have much to hide.

They cannot withstand transparency.

[girl gone mad]

274. No economist on the Fed's payroll wants the Fed to be audited.

FTFY.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. You're RIGHT! I did NOT answer the QUESTION.

Tough.

[Zalatix]

75. You avoid the question because you already lost the argument.

Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson are saying the same thing. Your attempts to bring Ron Paul into this amount to nothing but a petty distraction.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Why are you trying to dispute my assertion that RON PAUL is a FUCKING NUT?

Please, if you have substantial evidence to challenge my assertion that Ron Paul is a FUCKING NUT, please enlighten us all with the detailed defense of Ron Paul you seem so emotionally invested in presenting.

I state this seeing as you are reflexively and repeatedly challenging the ONE and ONLY statement I have made in this thread, ie that Ron Paul is a FUCKING NUT.

Otherwise, it is you, not I, who has lost the "argument".

[Zalatix]

90. There was no reason for you to bring Ron Paul into this, except to distract the issue.

This thread is about Bernie Sanders' audit of the Fed. It is NOT about RON PAUL.

So yes, you lost this argument - because your argument was utterly lost from the get go. It has wandered totally off topic.

Once again: This thread is about Bernie Sanders' audit of the Fed. It is NOT about RON PAUL.

[sabrina 1]

104. Why not? It's a very simple question. Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson who is running

for Congress as a Democrat btw, have now been called on this forum 'political opportunists'. Do you agree with that? Are they political opportunists as claimed by the guy who was banned from Kos, another liberal forum?

[Warren DeMontague]

114. You know whats funny? When people think they are entitled to demand random answers on shit.

News flash: i am responsible for my statements, and not someone else's. I have made one, and precisely one, assertion in this thread. Do you know what it is?

[Zalatix]

117. You don't expect to justify your off-topic comments. Gotcha.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Ive made one comment. That Ron Paul is a fucking nut.

I think its funny that some folks find that so upsetting.

[Zalatix]

124. This thread is about Bernie Sanders discovering $16 trillion stolen from taxpayers. NOT Ron Paul.

We're upset because you went off-topic and tried to discredit Bernie Sanders by bringing up Ron Paul.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. Well, i am sorry that you (plural) are upset.

Life is tough, sometimes, i know.

[Zalatix]

135. Upset? Nope, I'm glad we've established that there was no reason to bring Ron Paul into this.

Plus I'm not the one complaining about being "interrogated" MacLOL!!!-style.

I knew from the get-go that you were trying to distract this discussion away from Bernie Sanders' discovery of $16 trillion in thefts from American taxpayers.

[Warren DeMontague]

155. I think it's funny when people get all huffy and demand random answers and shit.

"Ooooh! oooh! I've got you now!"



Speaking of LOL.

[Zalatix]

166. Sorry for interrogating you MacLOL'd style! Sorry you can't stay on-topic.

[Warren DeMontague]

168. Whatevs.

As long as you're having a good time, that's all that matters.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Oh, and by the way-

Ron Paul is STILL a FUCKING NUT.

[Zalatix]

78. You did NOT answer the question. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson? Are they nuts?

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Like Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson are carbon based life forms.

Ron Paul is, additionally, a FUCKING NUT.

[Zalatix]

93. This thread is about Bernie Sanders' audit of the Fed, it is NOT about RON PAUL.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. Okay, then, kick me out of it. Or something.

Because AFAIAC, this sub thread is about the fact that RON PAUL is a FUCKING NUT, a fact I will happily reiterate every chance I get.

[Zalatix]

105. You had no reason for bringing him into this thread. This thread is about Bernie Sanders

and his discovery of $16 trillion stolen from American taxpayers.

Ron Paul is a nut. And he is also OFF TOPIC.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Follow the train back up the chain

And you will see that statement did not come out of thin air.

I am glad we are in agreement on Ron Paul's fundamental nut fuckingness.

[Zalatix]

113. This thread is about Bernie Sanders discovering $16 trillion stolen from taxpayers.

Do you realize what portion of our national debt that accounts for?

[sabrina 1]

68. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson? Are they nuts too?

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Ron Paul

Is a fucking nut.

[Zalatix]

77. You did NOT answer the question. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson? Are they nuts?

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Ask it again.

Maybe this time you'll get lucky.

[Zalatix]

96. How about Bernie Sanders, is he nuts also?

Let me be blunt - this thread is about Bernie Sanders. It will stay about Bernie Sanders.

Ron
Paul
Is
IRRELEVANT.

[Warren DeMontague]

129. Bernie Sanders

Is not nuts.

[Zalatix]

137. Then you had no reason to bring up Ron Paul. This thread is about Bernie Sanders, not Ron Paul.

[Zalatix]

141. Your refusal to discuss what Bernie Sanders was talking about, is telling.

[Zalatix]

146. How many times have you screamed the obvious "Ron Paul is a NUT"?

How many times have you discussed Bernie Sanders' discovery of $16 Trillion in thefts from the American taxpayer?

[Zalatix]

154. Yeah, I didn't answer it.

In your own words, "Tough". I'm sure you remember saying that, right?

I'm moving this discussion back on-topic. This thread is about Bernie Sanders.

How many times have you screamed the obvious "Ron Paul is a NUT"? How many times have you discussed Bernie Sanders' discovery of $16 Trillion in thefts from the American taxpayer?

[Zalatix]

164. Right here

"As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world," said Sanders. "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else."

...

To Sanders, the conclusion is simple. "No one who works for a firm receiving direct financial assistance from the Fed should be allowed to sit on the Fed's board of directors or be employed by the Fed," he said.


In other words, MORAL HAZARD. THEFT.

[Zalatix]

177. Are you kidding me? It's FRAUD. You do know that FRAUD means THEFT, right?

That's like saying someone towed your car without just cause but you don't wanna call it theft.

[Zalatix]

202. Secret transactions are THEFT and FRAUD.

Deal with it.

[Zalatix]

221. Secret transactions are THEFT and FRAUD.

Deal with it.

[Zalatix]

222. It was done IN SECRET. That's fraud, theft.

You try moving other people's money around without their knowledge or consent and see what you're accused of.

Go ahead, try it.

It's THEFT.

[sabrina 1]

87. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson, are they nuts also?

[Warren DeMontague]

95. How about Jello Biafra and Ricardo Montablan?

What do they have to do, if anything, with the fact that RON PAUL is a FUCKING NUT?

[Zalatix]

99. Likewise, Ron Paul has nothing to do with this thread.

[sabrina 1]

101. How about Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson who are demanding that the Fed be

audited, are they nuts? It's a simple question, seriously. And what does Ron Paul or Jello Biafra have to do with my question?

[Warren DeMontague]

106. What did I say?

I said "RON PAUL is a FUCKING NUT"

If you have an issue with that statement, please, rebut it.

[Zalatix]

119. We have an issue with you going off-topic. This thread is about Bernie Sanders, NOT Ron Paul.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. Then stay out of the subthread which brought ron paul into it, that would be my advice.

Course, it is your call.

[Zalatix]

128. No. I intend to vigorously challenge any attempts at connecting Ron Paul to Bernie Sanders.

There is no connection. Ron Paul is still irrelevant.

[Warren DeMontague]

131. They share 99.99% of the same DNA, and are both bipedal primates

Both have been known, on occasion, to wear pants.

[AtheistCrusader]

218. RP and his paulbots have been lighting up congressional phone lines on demand

for this issue, so I would hesitate to call him 'irrelevant', rather a contributor. Kucinich as well.

Remove their support, and I'm not convinced Sanders gets where he is today on this issue. Do you?

This in no way lends, suggests, or implies any credence to Paul's other agendas.

[Zalatix]

224. Bernie Sanders comes to his own conclusions whether or not the Paulites even exist.

You're not even questioning the validity of his own discoveries regarding the Fed, you're talking about Ron Paul and his band of crazies.

When do we start discussing the thefts that Bernie Sanders discovered? Or is this just an attempt at distraction?

[AtheistCrusader]

246. Look at the dates.

The Fed Audit
July 21, 2011


See the date?


"Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) won a rare legislative victory on Wednesday when the House passed his legislation allowing for a full audit of the Federal Reserve, including an audit of the Fed's monetary policy decisions.

The House approved Paul's Federal Reserve Transparency Act, H.R. 459, in a bipartisan 327-98 vote. The vote split Democrats almost evenly — 89 for and 97 against — while only one Republican, Rep. Robert Turner (R-N.Y.), voted against it.

The bill won an easy majority, given its 270 co-sponsors, and easily cleared the two-thirds majority needed for passage, which was required because it was considered under a suspension of the rules."

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/12/02/ron-paul-and-company-vindicate

Sanders is talking about the RESULTS of that audit. Ron Paul made the house (and first version) of the bill happen. It's practically the only thing he's ever done in 28 years in Congress. He also rallied his robotic ayn rand minions to choke congress with phone calls, letters, chants of 'Audit the fed', etc.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging where it came from. Sanders is responsible for the Senate side of the bill. Good times. Good work.

I don't see why this point is controversial with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Transparency_Act


And there are more people who are due credit. Kucinich, Grayson etc.

[Zalatix]

259. Bernie Sanders does not sign onto things that he himself has not checked.

Ron Paul's efforts are not connected to Bernie Sanders' investigation.

[AtheistCrusader]

263. I imagine your title line is 100% correct.

Body text is in error.

[LSK]

107. let me know when Ron Paul comes out for Medicare for All

[sabrina 1]

111. Start another thread. Meantime, my question remains unanswered by you.

Are Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson 'political oppurtunists' and 'nuts' as claimed, shockingly on this forum, by someone else in this thread. Do you agree with this assessment of these two Progressives?

[Warren DeMontague]

118. I might answer your orig. question if you werent acting like you're Macloud doing an interrogation

As it is, i will state again: RON PAUL is a fucking NUT. Since you seem to have a problem with that statement, rebut it before you try to change the subject.

[Zalatix]

123. Oh now you feel like you're being interrogated because you went off-topic?

[Warren DeMontague]

125. No, i feel oppressed by rows of laughing smileys.

Stop oppressing me!

[Zalatix]

130. Ron Paul is still irrelevant. This is about Bernie Sanders discovering $16 Trillion in theft.

[AtheistCrusader]

266. Bernie Sanders didn't by himself.

Thats' why you're wrong.

[Zalatix]

268. He had the help of the GAO.

And that's why you're wrong... Ron Paul is irrelevant.

This Ron Paul bullshit is all an attempt to discredit Bernie Sanders' findings. An attempt that is more transparent than you probably imagined it would be.

You're not going to win with me. I stand behind Bernie Sanders, come hell or high water.

[AtheistCrusader]

269. Tell me how Sanders wrote and sponsored the audit bill in the House.

I'm all ears.

[Zalatix]

270. Enough with the distraction tactics.

Bernie Sanders found TRILLIONS in fraudulent activity (read: theft). We need to punish those responsible for moving that money, IN SECRET, out of the country.

We do not need to bother with rants about Ron Paul.

[AtheistCrusader]

271. It's ok, I knew you couldn't.

On the Senate side, Sanders did everything he could, and he had help from awesome people like Kucinich, and Grayson. Good people all.

In the House, Sanders had no pull. Paul wrote that bill. He and his supporters got the entire republican party to break ranks with the crony capitalists, no mean feat in itself, and got it passed. Without that, Sanders efforts would be in vain. It only takes a moment to acknowledge the ONE thing in almost 30 years of being in the House, that RP accomplished, because it helped us mightily.

Now, that said, that report uncovered the total 16tn in loans more than a year ago. Before you go off half-cocked, you should understand that it wasn't a total 16tn, it was more or less the same 1tn in a revolving door of made and repaid loans. That distinction is important because while it means the taxpayers were exposed to a total 16tn in liability over the life of the activity, at any given time the exposure was more like 1tn, and if the deals had gone bad, it would have stopped there.

Not to diminish a trillion dollars though. Still monumentally criminal. And I agree with you that we need to prosecute.


Sanders is a good dude. If he drinks, I'd like to buy him a case of whatever he likes. He has done us an enormous service. One we cannot repay. But please do not pretend he did it alone.

[Zalatix]

281. We need to punish those responsible for moving that money, IN SECRET, out of the country.

From here on this is what I will talk about. Nothing else.

[AtheistCrusader]

287. Fair enough.

Now, where do we start?

I hesitate to make this an election issue for Obama, (via the DoJ) because what's the alternative if he gets hurt on this issue? Romney?
What can we do?

[Zalatix]

288. How is this going to hurt Obama???

[AtheistCrusader]

290. His DoJ isn't really doing much on the issue.

How do we apply pressure to them to START doing something about it, without making it an election issue?

Edit: I mean, it's not like we can boycott the federal reserve.

[Zalatix]

291. We could always wait until December.

[sabrina 1]

132. I might take you seriously if you weren't having such a hard time supporting two of the most

well known Progressive advocates for the American people. Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson, and your weak, lame attempt to insert Ron Paul into the discussion is simply laughable.

Sanders is the topic of this OP. Not Ron Paul, and yet you seem to be struggling hard not to simply support the guy who has fought so hard against the corruption on Wall Street and for the American people. He is a national treasure, it should not be so hard to simply support him against the attacks on his character in this thread.

Just fyi, the old way over used-up ron paul distraction lost its impact a long time ago. It does not obliterate the lack of support for Grayson, who is running for Congress as a Democrat, and Bernie Sanders.

[Warren DeMontague]

134. I responded to somone who was promoting Ron Paul.

Who is still a FUCKING NUT.

[Zalatix]

139. LOL you STILL don't realize that Ron Paul is irrelevant to this thread?

[Warren DeMontague]

140. You mean Ron Paul, FUCKING NUT?

Is that who you mean?

[Zalatix]

148. We're discussing Bernie Sanders' discovery of $16 Trillion stolen from American taxpayers

at what point do you ever decide to discuss this, which is the thread's topic?

[sabrina 1]

144. But you didn't respond to me who was not promoting Ron Paul but who was promoting

Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson who want the Fed Reserve audited. And you still have not stated whether you agree with them or not.

[Zalatix]

147. Careful. You're INTERROGATING him, MacLOL'd style!

[sabrina 1]

160. Lol, just amazed at how hard it is to get someone to either confirm or deny that they

believe that Sanders and Grayson are 'political opportunists' and/or 'nuts'.

If someone asked me that question, my immediate response would be 'Hell No!' Easy, simple and succinct.

[Zalatix]

181. Bingo.

[Warren DeMontague]

163. Post #6, Ron Paul vs. Harry Reid.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1250961

[Warren DeMontague]

151. First question you asked was, are they nuts too. No, Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson are not, to my

mind, nuts, unlike Ron Paul.

Do you think Paul Krugman is nuts?

[sabrina 1]

156. Yes, I did and I still got no answer to a very simple question.

[Warren DeMontague]

161. Yes, you think Paul Krugman is nuts?

What's the second 'simple question' you're demanding I answer, Counselor?

[sabrina 1]

170. Well, I think in fact I do have my answer. Silence means consent, Counselor!

You have avoided opposing the claims made here in this thread that Sanders and Grayson are 'political opportunists' and/or nuts. That is your choice. My choice is to take that reluctance to mean that you agree with those claims.

How sad, I never thought I would see the day on DU where Sanders and Grayson would be so trashed. And all because of the fact that they want transparency where the people know what is going on their own government.

[Warren DeMontague]

172. Why are you trying to make me responsible for what someone else said? I'm not.

"how sad"



Nice try. Try again.




How do you feel about people in this thread blatantly misrepresenting the words of Sen. Sanders, asserting he made claims about "16 Trillion in thefts" when nowhere on his site does he use language even remotely resembling that?

[sabrina 1]

176. Make you? Lol, I guess each time someone engages me in a discussion

they are trying to 'make me' do something? I was curious, how many people here have retained the principles they had when Bush was president when airc, we were screaming to know what was going on Wall Street and at the Fed Reserve and how many had 'changed' their minds.

You are free to oppose the transparency Grayson and Sanders are asking for, and I am free to support them.

I suppose I could accuse of you of trying to silence me by injecting your 'fuck ron paul' comments into the discussion, but no one has that kind of power over me. I know all the tricks and mostly ignore them and try to stay on the topic they are so desperately trying to distract from.

So don't worry, I will not play the victim and accuse you of trying to 'make me' do anything, because you couldn't anyhow, even if you were trying.

[Warren DeMontague]

178. Sigh. I was responding to someone who brought up Ron Paul. Post #6.

Trust me, it takes more than some yargle bargle on DU to ruffle my feathers.

Short answer on all this? I wasn't thrilled with stuff like TARP, but they prevented a much larger collapse of the, yes, global financial system.

I support transparency, but transparency also implies honesty. And claiming Sanders said "16 Trillion was Stolen" when he did no such thing, is dishonest.

[sabrina 1]

183. Well that had nothing to with me as I did not misquote Bernie Sanders.

What he did say was bad enough. That the audit which was so opposed by Wall Street, revealed the shocking information that 16 trillion and maybe more, which is why we need more audits, was distributed by the Fed to bail out Foreign Banks. That is simply shocking.

They were hiding this from the American people. I give credit for the few in Congress who are not protecting these criminal on Wall St and are looking out, as they are supposed to do, for the American people.

I opposed the bailouts, under Bush and Obama and I do not believe they benefited the American people, not one bit. They benefited the Bankers, they got them off the hook, they allowed them to reward themselves with big bonuses for FAILING, or worse, for committing fraud against the American people.

I spent that whole weekend along with millions of other Americans calling congress asking them NOT to get them off the hook. And Congress responded to the overwhelming opposition from the people, and voted against the bail outs.

But then King Henry Paulson as we now know, threatened them, as revealed by Democrats in Congress, into going back and voting for them.

This was in clear opposition to the will of the people who opposed them across party lines by an overwhelming majority.

I wanted them to do what Iceland did when they discovered the corruption in their banking system.

What did all this do for the American people? How about Main Street? Millions are still being thrown out in the street, unlike the wealthy, there was no bailout for them. I see the homeless right here in S. Ca every day, many of them victims of those illegal foreclosures.

I like millions of other Americans are simply disgusted with the weakness of our government when dealing with War Criminals and Economic Criminals while throwing more and more ordinary Americans in jail for things like being hungry and stealing some food.

There is simply nothing that will change or has changed my or anyone else's opinion on the disgraceful bailing out of failed institutions simply because they have bought influence in Congress and the people have not.

Now we learn it is even worse than we thought. They were sneaking trillions of dollars to FOREIGN banks, while still taking away the homes of ordinary Americans. This is an outrage and thankfully at least Bernie Sanders and a few others in Congress see it for it is. There are no excuses for this, sorry.

[Zalatix]

186. Nobody said "theft" was Bernie Sanders' exact words.

But what he said he discovered, was logically synonymous with theft.

He pointed out secret loans, and incidents of moral hazard. That's fraud. Which means theft.

[Warren DeMontague]

196. Speaking of knowing what things mean, do you know what "Moral hazard" actually means?

The whole bailout was a "moral hazard", because free market purists (like... oh, never mind) believe that ANY government interference in markets, or bailouts, or the like, constitute a "moral hazard" because the negative consequences for bad decision-making are removed, thus encouraging repeat performances. And they have a point, to a certain extent.

EXCEPT, in this case, the consequences quite probably would have included the collapse of the entire global financial system, which would have been a clusterfuck for ALL of us.

[Zalatix]

203. Wow, you don't understand what "moral hazard" is, do you?

It's not something invented by Ron Paul.

Bernie Sanders described a classic conflict of interest. That's a moral hazard. Fraud. THEFT.

[Warren DeMontague]

209. It is exactly what I said it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard

[sabrina 1]

205. Yes, I agree. What they discovered should have been reason to call a special session of

Congress and the beginning of an investigation to find out who received this money. We are told we have a deficit, we have no money to pay it, so the working poor have to give up some of their benefits, the elderly face cuts in SS and Medicare. Yet, here we find we are apparently so wealthy we could provide a Universal HC System, pay off the deficit, fund a huge jobs program such as re-building the infrastructure.

I feel sick at the sheer corruption of it all and the lies and even more so, at the collusion of our elected officials, and the defense of all of this even by some people on this forum.

[sabrina 1]

216. ???

Did you mean this post for someone else? I don't recall mentioning the deficit in this thread and if you're trying to infer that what is going on at the Federal Reserve is only being done for our benefit, you'll have to try to sell that someone else. Re the deficit, I am more than aware of the deficit, and have written several OPs about it in relation to SS, what caused it and how to reduce it.

I think you are confused. This topic is about the audit of the Federal Reserve and the secret funds they have been distributing to foreign banks without the people's knowledge, but it's very hard to keep some people on topic for some reason.

[sabrina 1]

220. You are making no sense at all now. Your claim was that I somewhere said there was no

deficit.

Now you link to a comment with a list of what could have been paid for with a small fraction of the money the Feds have been stuffing the pockets of Foreign Banks with, supposedly risk free. On that list I included the deficit, which totally contradicts your claim that I stated there was no deficit. What exactly is your point?

The audit of the Fed Reserve has revealed something important and shocking that the people would have remained unaware of had Wall Street succeeded in hiding it from us. Trillions of dollars being doled out by a few unelected individuals who themselves are in a position to benefit from their decisions. This is not how Democracy works, it cannot work this way.

While I did not support the bailout, at least Congress got to vote on it. And the people were led to believe that the amount approved of was the total amount of the bailouts. That was a massive lie as we now know.

Your entire presence in this thread has been an attempt to distract from the topic of the OP.

My question is 'why'?

[Warren DeMontague]

225. Well, obviously I'm in on the Conspiracy.

Like, duh.

[sabrina 1]

226. I'm sure you're trying to convey something

What you have conveyed whether intentionally or not is that for some reason you do not want to discuss the topic of the OP.

16 trillion dollars, (and we told, that is just the tip of the iceberg) handed out like candy to insiders and foreign banks, by unelected individuals, with no oversight, people who themselves were in a position to benefit from their decisions as to who should get a welfare check from the Feds.

So now we are not just the world's unwanted policemen, we are the world's Central Bank, well for the already wealthy, the corrupt banksters who caused the Global Financial Meltdown.

I would love to be the recipient of one of those handouts. I love socialism but for everyone, not just for the Global Capitalists.

How ironic, that the Ayn Rand worshippers are the ones who are on social welfare.. When they fail, or commit fraud and can't hide it any longer, the US Feds are there like the welfare state they so despise, to bail them out.

[Warren DeMontague]

230. "16 Trillion Dollars handed out like candy"... Er, Did you actually read the GAO report?

Maybe you should.

[Zalatix]

223. Extremely confused. And getting moreso as time wears on.

[Zalatix]

185. He called it SECRET LOANS. That's THEFT. Do you know what 'synonym' means?

[Warren DeMontague]

214. Anyway, you can't seem to find me saying the things you wish I would say, so you want to hang

someone else's words on me.

Pretty lame.

Also, yes, fuck Ron Paul, who is a FUCKING NUT. You want to complain about it, take it up with the now PPR'd troll who brought him up.

Harry Reid is blocking a senate vote for an audit of the Fed.

Ron Pauls bill to audit the Fed passed the House and Harry says he won't let the bill see the light of day in the Senate.

Funny, you didn't feel compelled to throw a tantrum over the shit he was saying, even though my posts, apparently, are enough to cause a massive flip-out.

[Zalatix]

204. I didn't misrepresent Sanders. Sanders described THEFT without using the exact word.

And the language he used quite closely resembled THEFT.

[Warren DeMontague]

210. No, he didn't.

Do you consider the entire TARP program "theft"? How about the Stimulus?

[Zalatix]

157. What do you think of Bernie Sanders discovering $16 Trillion stolen from taxpayers?

[Warren DeMontague]

174. Show me where Senator Sanders used that word, "stolen", and I'll answer.

I do know I don't like people misrepresenting the words of a valued member of the United States Senate.

[Zalatix]

179. He didn't need to.

[AtheistCrusader]

267. You forgot Kucinich.

Sanders is awesome, Grayson is awesome, Kucinich is awesome.

Paul is not awesome, he's a fucking unmitigated disaster on no end of social issues, but he DID write the House version of the bill Sanders sponsored in the Senate.

[sabrina 1]

272. I agree, Kucinich is awesome, one of the best.

[Zalatix]

79. +1,000 for staying on-message.

[sabrina 1]

30. You mean Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson's audits. Very nice try, but you have to

remember that DUers are very smart people.

Alan Grayson: 'Audit the Fed'! Another great progressive Democrat.

[Zalatix]

41. But... but Ron Paul hitched his horse to that "audit the Fed!" cart.

Must abandon it, now!

[lovuian]

39. Did you see the GAO report Its about Conflict of Interest

we have Federal Reserve Board members voting for bailouts on corporations that they have interest in the banks and corporations

Everybody knows this is illegal and wrong

Congress can not turn its back on this Corruption if they do ....take their names they are complicit in FRAUD

[sabrina 1]

46. Just stop! Trillions of dollars have gone to bail out foreign banks. This is NOT going to be

explained away with clever attempts to pretend this is simply as Ron Paul issue. So give it up, we are not buying what you are trying to sell.

I support Alan Grayson's quest for answers to this outrageous revelations and frankly the fact that you are trying to silence people like Grayson, makes me wonder, 'why'?

[banned from Kos]

54. Like it or not the people in Grayson's district silenced him

I prefer he had won his seat.

[sabrina 1]

63. I don't believe you. And FYI, Grayson is running again.

He lost because millions of dollars were poured into defeating him BECAUSE he stand up against this kind of corruption. Thank you for reminding me, I need to make a donation to his campaign as they will work hard to try once again to keep him from investigating their corruption, to keep him from insisting on auditing the Fed.

[girl gone mad]

275. Like it or not the teabaggers in Grayson's district retailated against him for his support of ACA.

FTFY.

[Zalatix]

59. Bernie Sanders disagrees with you. $16 trillion was stolen and moved out of the country.

[JDPriestly]

199. Could you please post a copy of the Deloitte audit report -- or a link to it?

Is it made public?

[lovuian]

26. the partial Audit is scary enough I don't know how Congress

can oppose a FULL audit after the results

if they do they are complicit to corruption and stealing

their names will be all over it ...no hiding now

[roamer65]

10. One needs to look at the history surrounding the creation of the Federal Reserve...

to completely understand why it does what it does. It was created as a replacement to the House of Morgan. The House of Morgan bailed the US out of the 1907 financial panic, but the realization soon set among bankers of that time that the House of Morgan would not be around forever. The bankers needed a more permanent lender of last resort and that led to the creation of the Federal Reserve System in 1913. The Federal Reserve is nothing more than the old House of Morgan, but with one big exception...the power to create money itself.

Do not look for fairness or impartiality from the Federal Reserve, it is an institution created by bankers...to serve bankers.

[banned from Kos]

15. pure right-wing bullshit

The Fed was created by Progressives to ameliorate financial panics like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Panic_of_1873

The Fed is a progressive monument.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. The Illuminati created it so they could summon the Antichrist at the Bohemian Grove

with their arcane, Jesus-hating rituals, silly!

[banned from Kos]

19. And the StoneMasons - don't forget them.

Its funny that all the liberal economists miss this "Fed Audit" bullshit.

Instead Krugman and DeLong (the best of them) say "DO MORE" to the Fed. To us, the Fed is not being Keynesian enough.

[gateley]

152. What do they mean by do more?

I get nervous about the Fed because of the power it wields. I remember an article about Greenspan titled "The Most Poweful Man In America". Then not too terribly long ago he said he'd been wrong (I don't recall about what, specifically, because I really just do not understand global economics).

So when Krugman, et al, advocate "more", do you know what they mean?

[banned from Kos]

171. Greenspan admitted being wrong about the banks ability to "self correct"

He stupidly thought banks would correct their bad ways and not need any regulation.

He was dead wrong and admits it now.

[gateley]

190. But he had the power to have his opinion listened to by TPTB.

That's what makes me uncomfortable -- who's to say Bernanke will be right?

Again, do you know what Krugman and the others mean by do more? And if so, do you agree?

[JFN1]

17. No, the Fed is a private corporation

The name just suggests it is part of the governmet - the Federal Reserve is about as "federal" as Federal Express...

[banned from Kos]

22. Nonsense. Seriously that is just ridiculous.

The Federal Reserve announced Monday it made a record $78.4 billion profit in 2010 as the central bank's unprecedented intervention into the financial system continued to produce a side benefit to the federal government.

The profit, which is paid to the U.S. Treasury, is a 65% increase over last year's payment of $47.4 billion, which was also a record. As the Fed's balance sheet has more than doubled to about $2.4 trillion since the 2008 financial crisis, it has pumped about $125 billion back into the government's coffers.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/01/federal-reserve-2010-record-profit-financial-crisis-intervention.html

[sabrina 1]

32. Why do you disagree with Progressives like Alan Grayson that the Fed needs to be

audited on a regular basis? And please, stop with the talking points attempting to attach this to the right wing. Is Alan Grayson a right winger now?

Congress is supposed to audit the Fed. What is your problem with this?

[banned from Kos]

126. I am a Democrat - not a Progressive. I also support gun rights.

I have never claimed to be a Progressive.

[sabrina 1]

142. If you are a Democrat you are progressive, there is no such thing as a regressive Democrat

Republicans are regressive, Democrats are progressive. If you don't understand the meaning of the words then I have to ask, when did you become a Democrat?

Republicans are regressive because they want to 'take this country back' to the dark ages.

Democrats are the opposite, they are progressive, as they want to keep this country progressing, beyond the fifties, progressing towards eliminating racism, sexism, Wall Street corruption, economic inequality eg. Strange that you so misinterpret the word that you would deny it.

By saying you are not progressive you are claiming to be a regressive Democrat. That is the other party. There are no such beings as regressive Democrats.

And what do guns have to do with this? I bet I could out shoot you at target practice any day? Where did you get the stereo-typical notion that Democrats are anti-guns?

[banned from Kos]

149. You are truly a great poster.

I love your re-framing.

I am just a garden variety liberal in the end. But I know my labels well and you are working them to disparage me.

Excellent!

[sabrina 1]

153. Resorting to playing the victim now? Either you are sure of who and what your are,

or you are not. I am not a great poster, I am a Democrat which makes it easy for me to not to have to make excuses about 'what kind of Democrat' I am. The Dem Party has a platform, the Dem Party is the Party of the People NOT the party of Wall Street.

It really is simple and takes no special skills other than a commitment to the ideals of the stated goals of the Party, to be able to see through those who are either NOT Dems or DINOs. DINOS have their own party, I do not know why they are trying to take over this one, although I could make a wild guess.

[banned from Kos]

169. My favorite Dems today are Obama and Kirsten Gillibrand

Barney Frank is third. Are we DINO's?

I don't know?????

[sabrina 1]

175. Lol!

We know, you loooove Obama!

[Zorra]

283. This: "I am a Democrat which makes it easy for me to not to have to make excuses

about 'what kind of Democrat' I am. The Dem Party has a platform, the Dem Party is the Party of the People NOT the party of Wall Street."

Sorry, but you really are a great poster, my dear sabrina 1.

[banned from Kos]

286. Don't be foolish. The Fed is not Wall St - the Fed is inside the beltway DC

The Fed is a creation of progressive Democrats under the Woodrow Wilson era.

[JFN1]

198. But it's still true.

From Wikipedia: The Federal Reserve System has both private and public components, and was designed to serve the interests of both the general public and private bankers. The result is a structure that is considered unique among central banks.
. . .
According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government."

[LSK]

23. do all Private Corporations have their boards appointed by Presidents and approved by the Senate?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12591.htm

Sorry, its not a prisonplanet link for ya.

[sabrina 1]

35. Alan Grayson questioning Fed Reserve General Inspector 'Is anyone minding the store at the Fed?

Definitely worth watching. No one is better at questioning these officials and not allowing them to get away with obfuscations and avoidance of the questions the people need answers to.

Thanks Alan.

[lovuian]

43. thank you Sabrina ...Who is minding the store is right

Keynesian is one thing but that was for work projects which gave Americans Jobs like Hoover Dam
where is that money being channeled...into CEO bonuses

[LSK]

61. car to explain these signs EVERYWHERE for the past 3 years?

[girl gone mad]

276. You are conflating the bank bailouts with the stimulus.

These are two distinctly different governmental operations.

[sabrina 1]

188. And foreign banks. You're welcome, lovuian. I watched that testimony

as it happened. He is the best when he is in action like that. No wonder they spent so much money on trying to get rid of him.

And yes imagine of that 16 trillion had been spent on the American people, on education, on health care, on the elderly, the mentally and phsycally disabled, on creating jobs for the middle class, on rebuilding our infrastructure. The entire deficit could be paid off with that money.

But instead it goes to bail out foreign banks, who failed and whose practices were corrupt. I thought we were broke. This is shameful.

[davidpdx]

289. It is actually part of the government

I won't get into the rest of the subject because it looks like 3 or 4 people are already having a nice time dumping on each other and I don't want a part in that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Reserve

[lovuian]

29. No outrage over the CONFLICT of Interest in AIG and GE and JP MORGAN

this is out and out conflict of interest and the GAO audit confirmed it

[twins.fan]

42. Bernie Sanders is the greatest politician in the Congress today!

Vermont has turned out some great statesmen recently including Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean!

[lovuian]

58. I agree just imagine without the audit we would

still be hearing bullshit from the Federal Reserve as well as JP Morgan

No convictions...the Attorney General is allowing the FRAUD if he sees the Audit results
the SEC is complicit ....

[sabrina 1]

109. I agree, yet in this very thread Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson have been called

'political oppurtunists' by a member of this forum.

Bernie is a national treasure and I have to say it is hard for me to be shocked, but seeing him trashed here on DU is pretty shocking.

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. The fed needs to be nationalized, no more of this privatized BS

[girl gone mad]

278. This^

Last edited Mon Sep 3, 2012, 04:38 AM - Edit history (1)

The government, not a cabal of private bankers, should control our national currency

Perhaps the bankers can create their own currency, backed by gold or minerals or whatnot. Then if they want to create unsustainable debts and blow up bubbles to rake in unseemly amounts of profit, it won't effect the rest of us to the same extent, and we won't be forced to bail them out.

[orpupilofnature57]

57. Bernie tells it like it is.

[RegieRocker]

81. The great shell game

It pains me to see the ignorance of some who are unwilling to accept the truth... http://www.richmondfed.org/faqs/frs/

Shell game or smoke and mirrors your choice. The Fed is not private however the 12 federal reserve banks are. Also chosen board members from each of the twelve federal reserve banks sit on the federal reserve committee. So they have duped you with slight of hand. So if you claim its right wing wacko stuff it makes you look real stupid.

More right wing propaganda
http://occupywallst.org/forum/woodrow-wilson-regrets-over-creating-federal-reser/

[nc4bo]

136. OMFG.

No comment.

[riderinthestorm]

162. K&R. Nothing else to add nt

[woo me with science]

180. K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R! nt

[patrice]

182. I have been saying it to anyone who would listen ever since 2008: FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIG

FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY FOREIGN MONEY ...

is running our country.

[fascisthunter]

191. Foreign, as in Traitors, who are not deserving of national constitutionalities?

Indeed.... many traitors of this nation have actively supported profit before nation. Meaning, they chose their own well beings' before the nation's well being, which generally shows a general disregard for all other citizens. In the end, there is no defense against giving one human being more influence over another... all citizens', criminal and lawful should be given the same equal rights to equally influence our government.

Enough of the Bullshit.

[patrice]

195. There is no doubt in my mind that money, which was wrung out of the lives, lands,

and resources of a country, WILL be used in ways that are not to a benefit for a people that is commensurate with the benefit that it provides those who use it. That fact alone will be used to further threaten and extort wealth from this/any country forever decreasing returns to the people who make that wealth possible, thus reinforcing the whole set of processes . . . Voila! stateless oligarchy!

....................

Have you seen that Al Gore is calling for an end to the Electoral College?

Step in the right direction?

[90-percent]

184. Bernie

Bernie is in a very tiny minority of those in Congress that still conduct themselves honorably with the welfare of the people that elected him foremost in all his efforts.

As I've said repeatedly;

OUR INSTITUTIONS ARE INFESTED WITH CORRUPT SOCIOPATHS

Bernie sure as hell aint one of them.

and the Republican Presidential nominee certainly is.

-90% jimmy

[fascisthunter]

193. Now what will both Candidates Purpose?

What will their responses be? What will the media's focus be?

Diaper time for centrists!

[A HERETIC I AM]

194. Threads like this make me wonder how many DU'ers actually think the Federal Reserve.....

gave 13 trillion dollars away, will not get it back and the American Taxpayer is liable for it.

If any of the people who responded with their "I am so outraged" type posts on this thread actually think that......



well.....


You clearly have no idea how the Federal Reserve works and how these sorts of transactions actually settle.

[patrice]

206. Those aren't my concerns. My concerns are about what kinds of deals will be made with

those Fed funds themselves and then what "private" money is out there in whatever kinds of deposit deals in foreign accounts around those Fed dollars.

Didn't the derivative crash of '08 expose everyone to more risk, because of the size of the losses, so there are a lot of countries who are still trying to do "work outs" that may or may not accomplish what they need done, which facts may or may not be that good for the 99%?

[cthulu2016]

208. They believe precisely that.

And it is tragic.

[TahitiNut]

237. As a former high school math teacher, ...

... I lament the arithmetic illiteracy so rampant these days. The corruption in the system is evident enough without such ridiculous misapprehensions.

[girl gone mad]

280. In this thread:

Last edited Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:05 AM - Edit history (2)

People who think that $trillions in interest-free loans is exactly the same as a couple thousand in penalty-rate loans, since OMG the banks "paid it back" (but please don't ask how they paid it back, because then it doesn't look like such a great deal, after all).

People who believe the Fed creates a magic type of money which will never affect our tax liabilities, therefore the Fed can do whatever it pleases and doesn't need US taxpayers. No need for an audit since nothing bad could ever happen (look away, look away!)

People who believe that those toxic assets and zombie banks were really great investments and it's too bad we don't have global financial collapses more often or we would all be loaded once the Fed prints that magic money and the banks miraculously pay back those zero interest loans (by solving world hunger and curing herpes, because how else do banks make money?)

So, genius, set the rest of us straight.

[A HERETIC I AM]

284. For someone who regularly puts herself up as an expert on all thing financial...

It is astounding to me that you apparently cling to the notion that the Federal Reserve either "stole" or gave away 13 or 29 (you pick the figure) trillion dollars. It didn't fucking happen in the way you seem to want to think it did. I know thinking the Fed stole a large amount of money from the American public fits your perception that they are out to screw us over, but you are wrong, genius.


And for what it's worth, I doubt you would know what a "Toxic asset" is if it landed in your lap

[girl gone mad]

285. You seem to want to revise recent history to fit a narrow pro-banker agenda.

The actual extent of Federal Reserve's commitments has been thoroughly researched and detailed by economists who were not on the Fed's payroll:

The extraordinary scope and magnitude of the financial crisis of 2007–09 induced an extraordinary response by the Federal Reserve in the fulfillment of its lender-of-last-resort function. Estimates of the total amount of bailout funding provided by the Fed have ranged from its own lowball claim of $1.2 trillion to Bloomberg’s estimate of $7.7 trillion (just for the biggest banks) to the GAO tally of $16 trillion. But new research conducted as part of a Ford Foundation project directed by Senior Scholar L. Randall Wray finds that the Fed’s commitments—in the form of loans and asset purchases to prop up the global financial system—far exceeded even the highest estimates.

http://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/?docid=1467

[limpyhobbler]

201. k/r nt

[cthulu2016]

207. Since the Fed doesn't operate with "US tax dollars" this entire thread is a farce

[Warren DeMontague]

213. Mmmm, Don't even bother.

You'll be accused of aiding and abetting horrible people like Harry Reid and Paul Krugman, while denigrating brave freedom-fighters like Ron Paul.

[sabrina 1]

215. Bernie Sanders doesn't know what he's talking about?

Okay. I guess we're supposed to take the word of an anonymous poster on the internet who says it's all a farce (unless you're talking about the actual issue here) with nothing to back it up, over one of the most respected members of the Senate.

I think I'll go with the Senator, if you don't mind.

If you ever feel like actually addressing the issues he is talking about though, please do.

[quaker bill]

228. Think about it for just a moment

No institution could loan or give away 16 trillion "US Tax Dollars". The entire US economy produces 13 to 14 trillion dollars a year (GDP). If everything was taxed at 100%, it would not be enough money.

What the Fed actually did was substitute forms of money people had stopped believing in with forms of money people still believe in. It was a Jedi mind trick. The 16 trillion dollars did not exist before it was used. The Fed materialized it out of thin air using 4 people sitting in cubicles at workstations clicking mouse buttons. They actually have the power to do that.

People like to think of money like matter in terms of physics, in that matter cannot be created or destroyed, all of it had to come from somewhere (like taxes). In fact money is nothing at all like that, it can be created or destroyed with mouse clicks, this happens everyday. The 16 trillion was an unusually large move.

They are now talking about "Quantitative Easing III". The quantity being increased in QE III is the quantity of money, just like it was in QE I and QE II. The Fed makes new money and buys treasuries with it on the concept that flooding the market with money will free up investment funds for businesses.

[KoKo]

235. Hows that "QE" been doing in freeing up investment funds for businesses?"

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)

You do know that QE is to allow the "Too Big to Fail" to unwind their debt and build up their capitol...not to invest in "new business, small busines" that would create jobs.

[quaker bill]

261. I understand QE

It is supposed to flood the market with money. It does. What business people do with it is really not under the control of the FED. That said, if QE I or QE II had actually worked, we would not be on the edge of QE III.

Another thing QE does is drive gold bugs into a frenzy. Every time they do it the gold bugs think the currency will collapse. It doesn't and it won't. I expect they will not do QE III. The FED has been looking at every excuse in the latest numbers to avoid it for about a year now.

What is needed is fiscal policy, not monetary policy. The pedal has been to the metal on monetary policy for 3 years now, with scant effect. However we have to get rid of a whole bunch of t-party wackaloons in November to have any hope of a fiscal fix.

[KoKo]

264. I can agree with you on that point. QE's have been a boon to Too Big to Fail Banks & Nothing for

Average Americans. For Sure.

[quaker bill]

265. Pushing money in at the wrong end to stimulate the economy

it like trying to push a cooked spaghetti noodle up hill. It is however the only took the FED has left. We need a jobs program and this is something only congress and the President can create.

[girl gone mad]

279. Even banned_from_kos would not say something this absurd, cthulu2016.

US taxpayers are the sole backstop for the US Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve holds well under $3 Trillion in assets, almost all of which is in the form of U.S. Treasuries. What gives these Treasuries (and every other dollar-based asset) its worth is the power of the U.S. federal government to collect taxes.

Federal Reserve Notes are backed only by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government," which means their worth is derived entirely from the government's ability to levy taxes.

If our government loses its ability to collect taxes, the Fed's assets become worthless. If the Fed monetizes excessively, the dollar will be devalued and taxes will have to be increased in order to restore the dollar's purchasing power.

[woo me with science]

216. Another thread attracting relentless, repetitive attention

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2012, 05:35 AM - Edit history (9)

from the reliable purveyors of propaganda for the one percent. It becomes dangerous when the institutions of looting are unveiled...

The argument over whether the Fed is public or private obscures the point...Its aspects of both allow the Federal Reserve Banks to funnel profit to private bankers from every single dollar printed by the US government. They operate as private middlemen that should not be there in the first place in a sovereign country that can print its own money. This audit is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of corruption, and the one percent are determined to make sure the questioning ends here.

It is no accident that most Americans do not even understand what the Fed is or how it works. It is not taught in schools. What the defenders of the one percent are *really* afraid of is that, through these conversations, people will actually come to understand the banking system in this country and how it is deliberately structured to feed and empower the one percent.

It becomes clearer and clearer that you can say pretty much anything you want here about corporate corruption, as long as you leave blameless the institutions that protect and enable it.

Begin to draw back the curtain on the Federal Reserve System and our government's ugly collusion in the corporate looting, however, and the thread suddenly gets the Assange treatment.

[KoKo]

234. yep....

well said.

[ronnie624]

254. Excellent post. n/t

[cantbeserious]

227. The 1% Invented Bread And Circus To Keep The 99% Blissfully Ignorant

eom

[AnnaLee]

231. There is no doubt that there are some problems found but I have a couple of points to make.

FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM: Opportunities Exist to Strengthen Policies and Processes for Managing Emergency Assistance
The key document is not what Sanders or other politicians say, it is what the GAO reports and semi-audits actually say. I looked into these numbers when they first appeared. It seems like a long time ago. The relevant GAO document is dated July 2011. The $16T appears to have been taken from Table 8: Institutions with Largest Total Transaction Amounts (Not Term-Adjusted) across Broad-Based Emergency Programs (Borrowing Aggregated by Parent Company and Includes Sponsored ABCP Conduits), December 1, 2007 through July 21, 2010 on page 131.

Note the term "Total Transactions" because the GAO carefully explains prior to this table:

Table 8 aggregates total dollar transaction amounts by adding the total dollar amount of all loans but does not adjust these amounts to reflect differences across programs in the term over which loans were outstanding. For example, an overnight PDCF loan of $10 billion that was renewed daily at the same level for 30 business days would result in an aggregate amount borrowed of $300 billion although the institution, in effect, borrowed only $10 billion over 30 days. In contrast, a TAF loan of $10 billion extended over a 1-month period would appear as $10 billion. As a result, the total transaction amounts shown in table 8 for PDCF are not directly comparable to the total transaction amounts shown for TAF and other programs that made loans for periods longer than overnight.

In other words to use a "fungible" phrase, some of the transactions involved borrowing and paying back the same dollars on a periodic basis that could be as little as a day. The cumulative numbers in the report do not reflect the actual number of dollars involved over time. Also, the report does show graphs that reflect the "current" status of the funds but you have to make sure you always understand what you are reading.

As far as the foreign banks go. After you heard about AIG what did you expect? USB was even one of the banks invited to the first Congressional meetings. One thing that connects some of the foreign banks is that they bought up some of the funny AAA (Ha) CDOs, CDSs, etc. that were packaged by US "banks". The AIG thing really got my goat. I told people the government/Fed was surely "laundering" money through GS to the foreign damage. I was ultimately wrong about the laundering but not wrong about the need to include foreign banks.

Anyway, with the audits it appears one has to be careful that they understand how the numbers were produced.

[TahitiNut]

232. Isn't that cute? You're actually expecting the hair-on-fire folks to stop and think? Silly girl.

As a math major, I can assure you that the 'habit' of adding numbers and portraying the SUM as meaningful in some unrelated fashion is as old as numbers themselves. Far too many folks have little comprehension of the MEANING of any arithmetic result, as they run amok performing arithmetic without reasoning.

"Spreadsheets" made this a plague within ANY economic activity. I can't even begin to describe the rampant insanity of every John and Jane Dough within every one of our 'esteemed' corporations running amok with spreadsheets upon which business decisions big and small are being made ... with less fundamental validity than Tarot cards.

The "sum" of one-sided transactions, without ANY balancing whatsoever, is without merit of any kind.


Imagine being able to actually SPEND the SUM of all the times anyone handed you some cash! If I could do that, I'd sit down with a friend and pass Ben Franklins back and forth, each of us only totalling the number of time that we RECEIVED one, without any concern whatsoever over the fact that we gave it back within seconds of getting it. If we could each SPEND just the 'receipts" ... we'd be wealthy beyond our wildest desires. Instead, we'd merely get carpal tunnel and dirty fingers.

[AnnaLee]

233. Actually I see that someone else made the same comment as mine.

Early this morning this thread was discussing the same table so I'm not the only one here that was aware of this. When the big numbers first started coming out, there was something obvious wrong with them (at least with the representation people were making).

I cannot believe the Fed gave Citigroup 2.5 Trillion Dollars! by cthulu2016

[TahitiNut]

236. Yup. I saw that, too.

Yet we still have enough hair-on-fire folks that I can enjoy my roasted marshmallows.

[Romulox]

239. Um, if a bank loans the $1 to person A, who pays it back with 5% interest, it STILL charges person B

5% interest--to borrow that SAME dollar.

Amazing, I know.

Imagine being able to actually SPEND the SUM of all the times anyone handed you some cash! If I could do that, I'd sit down with a friend and pass Ben Franklins back and forth, each of us only totalling the number of time that we RECEIVED one, without any concern whatsoever over the fact that we gave it back within seconds of getting it.

Except borrowing money isn't free. Not normally. Seems like a little detail you're missing.

[Romulox]

241. I mean, why not just pay off your VISA bill with your MASTERCARD, then pay your MASTERCARD with your

VISA?

Because, hey--FREE MONEY! And no fair counting each time that money changes hands! Service fees and "interest" just shouldn't ruin this fun.

And you could sit down with your friend and just laugh, and laugh...

[TahitiNut]

242. Once upon a time, in the olden days when regulations were (temporarily) far more reasonable,

... it was unlawful to "rob Peter to pay Paul" ... to pay one credit card by using another. Then the banksters figured out that they were losing the chance to "make money" off this and the laws were changed.

[Romulox]

243. I know. But when I tried to pay my DISCOVER card, they told me, "It's one hundred and TEN dollars.

That's $5 for interest, and $5 for transaction fees." And I said, "You know damn well this is the same $100 Stan already paid you back just last month. It's just dishonest for you to count loaning this money to ME as a new transaction!"

Once upon a time, in the olden days when regulations were (temporarily) far more reasonable,

... it was unlawful to "rob Peter to pay Paul" ...

OK. But robbing Peter to pay Paul is still TWO transactions, not one.

[heaven05]

238. vote

rmoney/aynryan, we'll give em even more. Meanwhile back at the ranch, poor, elderly and 'others', yes, republican voter you too, are eating out of trash cans and hoping to find a deal on dog or cat food. No exaggeration.

[CountAllVotes]

244. I'd go so far as to say ...

Jail/imprison this fraud!!!!

& recommend !!!

[cstanleytech]

249. Wont happen.

It sucks but the fact is you are looking at trials that would probably stretch out years if not decades and these people are extremely rich and well connected so even if they were convicted (which I doubt) they probably wouldnt even spend any time in jail or get a Scooter Libby (aka have their sentences commutated).
In the end the best we probably can look forward to is that they fire/dismiss the assholes and put firmer rules in place and not allow anyone with clear conflicts of interest like William Dudley clearly had to serve on the fed.

[xiamiam]

251. i have a friend who wants them hung by their thumbs in front of the white house

will that work?
we used to be a country of laws..not so much anymore ..unless of course one is a minority and has a drug offense..

[CountAllVotes]

253. Wishful thinking

You are likely right but I can still hope.

Keep hope alive!!

[truedelphi]

255. Think about it - so many of the major players are people

That Obama has either be-friended, appointed or re-appointed.

If Ben Bernanke had not been re-appointed, then we'd have a chance to restore our nation.

To do anything major about any of this - Obama would have to apologize for so many things on so many various levels, that he would not be able to be elected come November.

He appointed Tim Geithner, Headmaster of Banking Ins and Outs during his tenure as the head of the NY Fed, to become our nation's Secretary of the Treasury.

He re-appointed Bernanke. Recently Jaimie Diman wore the Oval Office gold plated cufflinks given to him by Obama to his Senate interrogation.

None of this could have happened without either of these two players.

Not only all that, but then, if Obama did admit to all that, how many Senators would have to admit they have been bought and paid for as well?

[smile777]

252. Federal Reserve is no more Federal than is Federal Express

The Federal Reserve is a consortium of banks who print money, out of thin air when needed, and charge our government interest for this funny money. They do need to be audited and I applaud Sanders, Paul, Grayson, and Kucinich for the courage to expose this fraud that's been perpetrated on the American people. While I am a progressive dem, this corrupt activity of the Fed. Res. is an issue all Americans should be made aware of, and work hard to eliminate. We are not the United Banks of America, we are the United States of America. Banks are about profit for those who already have, not about prosperity for all, which a democratic government stands for.

[ProSense]

258. This audit was

done as part of the Wall Street reform law. The release is from July 2011.

July 21, 2011

The first top-to-bottom audit of the Federal Reserve uncovered eye-popping new details about how the U.S. provided a whopping $16 trillion in secret loans to bail out American and foreign banks and businesses during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. An amendment by Sen. Bernie Sanders to the Wall Street reform law passed one year ago this week directed the Government Accountability Office to conduct the study. "As a result of this audit, we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world," said Sanders. "This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged, you're-on-your-own individualism for everyone else."

[Zalatix]

260. According to some, Ron Paul now controls Bernie Sanders and the GAO, too.

Look at the hilarity upthread for examples.

[gollygee]

262. But people are more worried about what people buy with food stamps

and whether a welfare receipent ever uses marijuana. Those are much much bigger wastes of money.

People are so worried that poor people are living it up, but really this country's money is mainly going to rich people, who are hoarding it.

[woo me with science]

293. kick