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Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:52 AM

Will the Ryan Pick Bring more attention to Romney's Taxes or focus the talk away?

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Reply Will the Ryan Pick Bring more attention to Romney's Taxes or focus the talk away? (Original post)
Justice wanted Aug 2012 OP
cantbeserious Aug 2012 #1
Justice wanted Aug 2012 #2
cantbeserious Aug 2012 #3
russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #4
Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #5
cantbeserious Aug 2012 #7
Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #12
cantbeserious Aug 2012 #19
sibelian Aug 2012 #6
JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #8
sibelian Aug 2012 #10
JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #13
sibelian Aug 2012 #21
JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #24
sibelian Aug 2012 #25
Motown_Johnny Aug 2012 #9
Brother Buzz Aug 2012 #15
JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #16
WI_DEM Aug 2012 #11
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #18
demwing Aug 2012 #14
progressivebydesign Aug 2012 #17
cantbeserious Aug 2012 #23
ananda Aug 2012 #20
magical thyme Aug 2012 #22

Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:55 AM

1. It Will Deflect The Discussion Back To The Budget - Mitt Gets A Pass On Bain and Taxes

The media will fall right in line with this train of discussion.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:56 AM

2. Yeah but then looking at how that Budget would benefit people like Romney it is going to bring the

attention back to it.

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Response to Justice wanted (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:00 AM

3. Probably Not, The Narrative Will Be Competing Budget Visions

Fox News and the Superpacs will tell endless lies to keep the discussion in that limited space.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:07 AM

4. Andrea Greenspan will help them too.

She was nearly orgasmic at the introduction this morning.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:10 AM

5. I don't agree at all. 'The budget' is just another term meaning 'money' and this is all about

money, who has it, who cheats to keep it, who is open about it and who is not. No pass on anything will occur. Bain becomes highlighted with Ryan, because of the contrast, Ryan has always, always been on the government payroll.
I mean, you can hope such a pass happens, but this is no reason for that to happen, it is reason to look harder at those exact issues, as the Ryan budget would essentially free Mitt from his tax burden on capital gains and dividends and interest, his entire income. What this does is sharpen the focus on that budget's details, the cuts for the rich, for Mitt. Ryan's plan makes Mitt personally richer, instantly and not just some cut of a few hundred thousand, Ryan's plan nearly eradicates Federal income tax on Romney's sort of income. That makes the rather vague subject of 'the budget' very sharp and easy to speak of.
There will be more focus on finances, and it will not stop.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:18 AM

7. Alternate Point Of View - Rmoney Bain And Taxes Topic Goes Away Because It Becomes A Second Tier

Knock-On effect due to the budget.

The Republicans will baffle the electorate with BS on the budget because it is so abstract that no one understands it.

Fox News will aid in that effort; the Karl Rove Superpacs will so distort the truth that BS sounds like manna from heaven.

Remember, the Superpacs were able to reduce Kerry's Vietnam record to that of almost traitor status.

I would never underestimate the influence of Fox News and Superpacs.

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:44 AM

12. I simply do not agree. Additionally, I think most folks overestimate the influence of FoxNews

and of cable news in general. The vast majority of Americans-dig this- simply do not watch cable news at all. It is a niche market, and FoxNews in particular speaks only to those who are already on that side of things, their demographic is sad and dated. Sure, they tout being 'number one in cable news' and all the fools take that as meaningful without looking at the actual figures involved. Number One among magazines about Stamp Collecting is 'number one' but first place is a relative thing. FoxNews never wins their time slot against other cable programming, just against other cable news programs. This means that they, as well as CNN and MSNBC are consistently out performed by sit com reruns, local news, old films, cartoon hours, you name it. They are never number one in a time slot, ever.
How many people watch these 'news stations' that so many think are the be all and end all? FoxNews 'leads' with less than 2 million prime time viewers total, with less than half a million in the 'key demographic'. The 3 major networks get millions of viewers each. 5.78 million is the most recent figure I can find for CBS Evening News, and they are not number one on network. So 15-20 million watch network news each night, less than 2 million watch FoxNews. Andrea Mitchell, who people here panic over, has under 500,000 watching at her best. There are local morning shows that get more viewers in a single market that watch her nationally.
Facts and perspective are superior to fear and assumptions. I'm not into this fantasy that our rivals are super geniuses, nor that a cable outlet with scant viewership is mega powerful. Neither thing is true.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #12)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:58 AM

19. Emotion And Fear Trump "Facts And Perspective" In Politics

That fear-based politics works has been demonstrated over and over.

The reason that attacking Romney on Bain and Taxes worked is because Romney was not effective on the budget discussion.

Since Romney was not effective on the budget discussion, the dialog remained focused on Romney.

The Obama attacks worked because it is easy for the 99% to dislike the 1%.

However, by adding an effective budget debater to the ticket, the discussion shifts to fairness for the 99% and the overall dislike of the 1% diminishes. In other words fairness within an economic class trumps fairness across economic classes.

The Republicans will argue that their budget protects the moderates from not having to pay taxes for "freeloaders".

This argument resonates much more with moderates than does the 1% argument and people like Romney not paying taxes.

Ultimately, the fear-based argument plays out as the Republicans will make sure that only worthy Americans receive their due from the Government.

No more "freeloaders".

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:13 AM

6. It had better NOT take attention away from the tax story - that's the big gun!


When the opponent asks you to stop using a certain weapon...

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Response to sibelian (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:28 AM

8. The veep announcement is Romney's "big gun".

It changes the headlines overnight, and buries the Bain/taxes story. That Romney used this big gun at this early date is telling indeed, that the attacks were quite effective.

Unfortunately for Romney, he played his hole card and it'll soon fade away after the media gets bored with Ryan. Unless he has the media draw Palin enjoyed, the spotlight will be back on Mitt. I'd have to see him in a skirt first, but I doubt the media becomes so enamored with Ryan.

The Bain/taxes issue has a longer shelf life and can be brought up again and again before the election however. The Dems just have to wait a week or two to hammer him anew on it. Romney has nothing left after this one time boost.

Meanwhile, there's Ryan's top-down budget proposal. It can legitimately be said that Ryan's number one goal is to further line Romney's pockets with easy cash.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:31 AM

10. I hope you're right.


I don't want the ball dropped on the tax story.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:47 AM

13. To see how effective this announcement is...

Just look throught the recent DU threads and count the Bain/taxes articles. Romney has even changed the top stories here to focus on Ryan, but he played it too early. He should have saved this for the convention, but was forced to throw down this card now.

It's not necessarily good for Romney to lose the attention though. He wants to be the next president, and at some point has to regain the spotlight to avoid McCain's final dillemna.

We won't hear the Obama campaign saying "vote for Biden".

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #13)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:58 AM

21. Only time will tell, Johnny


And for the tax story to retain power, dem activists have to be talking about it. If everyone gets distracted by shiny personality-related stories... the next few rounds of launching the tax story won't have space to take root in.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #21)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 12:52 PM

24. Fortunately, the people who plot such courses....

are much smarter than me.

The "Mitt pays no taxes" meme is too good to lose, and the strategists in the Obama campign know it. They'll find a way to revive it, and probably will use Ryan as a co-conspirator.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #24)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 01:01 PM

25. Cool.


You reassure me.

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:28 AM

9. Short term = away.. Long term we tie them together into one argument

with Ryand's budget being the ribbon that binds them.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:50 AM

15. Word!

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:51 AM

16. Ryan's only stated goal as congressman...

...is to line Romney's pockets with more and more riches.

It could be said the Mitt is plotting a get rich quick scheme that rivals Bernie Madoff, except it'll all be legal.

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:34 AM

11. For a few days but Dems should not relent. They should ask Ryan what he thinks of Romney not

releasing more taxes.

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Response to WI_DEM (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:57 AM

18. and ask Romney how many years he required from his VP choices.. haha. n/t

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:49 AM

14. If Romney was trying to change the headlines

why announce on a Saturday morning at the big finale of the Olympics?

Why not wait till Monday morning?

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:56 AM

17. the tax thing won't go away. In fact it's going to be heightened for 3 reasons...

1) The journalists will now be dying to ask. "So, how many years of returns did you require of your VP pick???" The questions will be asked. It's obvious that this is a sparkling opportunity, because Ryan will ALSO be asked to divulge his returns for the VP process in the media. Is he going to release one incomplete and one guesstimate?

2) Once America gets a load of Ryan, and his heartless budget and other issues, the attention is still going to be on Romney, and even more so, as Ryan is not going to erase people's doubts about Romney. Once the opposition gets that Norquist "working digits" thing into the mainstream, they'll see that Ryan was part of that plan, and they'll still want to know what Romney's secrets are.

3) The Obama Campaign is not going to let the tax thing go.. especially in light of the dangerous choice he's made for VP. That team could completely destroy what's left of the middle class, and plunge the poor into a downward spiral, and end up costing us billions and billions for uninsured health care emergencies once they realize that the poor are not going to get much for insurance on 200 bux a month (his proposal to give tax credits of 200 a month to buy private insurance.)

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 12:13 PM

23. All True - However, The Kochs Billions And Karl's Brain Can Overcome The Press By Media Saturation

eom

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:58 AM

20. It all depends on what the Dems do here.

The Dems have to keep it in the limelight.

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Response to Justice wanted (Original post)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 12:01 PM

22. it deflects to budget: bring down deficit on backs of seniors/poor/middle versus taxing the wealthy

which circles right back to how the wealthy don't pay their fair share. For example: Word is that, with hundreds of millions in offshore accounts, Mittens didn't pay any income taxes at all for 10 years. And now he wants to give millionaires $250K tax cuts at middle and poor people's expense, by slashing food stamps, SS, medicare, etc. etc. etc.

There is no getting away from his tax return issue, but this becomes much much bigger and more personal, as desperate parents see food taken from their children's mouths, people nearing retirement see themselves being thrown to the wolves, and already retired people see their children and grandchildren being thrown to the wolves.

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