It's not Harry Reid's fault.

[kentuck]

If there is a serious crime in your neighborhood, a theft or a murder, and someone tells you that he saw the person that did it but he doesn't want you to give his name for fear of retaliation, political or physical, and you report it to the police, is it your fault that there was a theft or a murder?

There has been a theft from the US Treasury and Harry Reid has reported it. Someone told him that Mitt Romney never paid any taxes for 10 years. So Romney says to "put up or shut up". Now the onus is on Harry Reid to prove that this theft took place, even though there is a witness that says it happened. The theft is not as important as the fact that it has been reported.

The accused says, "No, I don't have to tell you where I was at when the crime took place. I don't have to tell you where I got all my money. I'm only running for President of the United States. Kiss my ass, America!"

[HereSince1628]

1. The questions is will Dana Bash get Dan Rathered?

or Carl Bernsteined?

[kentuck]

2. So far, we are only dealing with hearsay evidence.

There are no documents that have been put forth, as with Rather. At this point, we have tax returns that are missing. The American people need those to make an important decision about who they want to vote for? Reid says he has been told by a "credible source" that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. Dana Bush is only reporting that this person is credible, if true. I don't see that it has advanced very far beyond that?

[HereSince1628]

10. True, so far she is only saying she knows someone who knows someone who knows something

yet, to continue in this vane of homonyms...

If there is a there there, they're likely interested in stopping it there so it doesn't end their chances.

[kentuck]

11. We know there is a "there" there...

Because the tax returns are still missing..

[HereSince1628]

14. There is is.

[trotsky]

3. I don't think there was a theft.

I believe Romney legally avoided paying taxes for an unknown period of time. There are so many loopholes for the extremely rich, I don't think they need to cheat to avoid taxes anymore.

[kentuck]

4. But the fact remains that there are missing tax returns...

that the people need to see to make an informed decision. We don't know if there was a crime. But if there are special loopholes for the very wealthy, like Romney, we have a right to know that also.

[trotsky]

5. Absolutely, and we deserve to see those returns.

But I think we all know that will never happen.

[kentuck]

6. Why will that never happen?

Therefore, we should just make a decision in the dark? Nixon had to release the tapes because we had a press that demanded it.

[RagAss]

7. I believe it will never happen because his voters don't care...

They would vote for a cardboard cutout of Benito Mussolini if the GOP ran it against Obama.
It's the country we have right now.

[cleduc]

25. Mitt Romney Taxes For 2010 Not Fully Disclosed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-taxes-2010_n_1683084.html

Romney released his 2010 tax return in January of this year, a document that first informed voters about the existence of his Swiss bank account and financial activities in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. But people who own foreign bank accounts are required to file a separate document with the IRS that provides additional details on such overseas bank holdings, and Romney has not released that form to the public.

The Romney campaign did not respond to HuffPost's request to view the document.

Tax experts say it is almost certain that Romney did file the form, known as a Report on Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts, or "FBAR" in accountant slang. The penalty for not filing an FBAR can be severe, and the IRS would have expected to receive the form since Romney listed the Swiss bank account on his tax return. Listing the account on his tax return and then failing to file the subsequent FBAR would have been asking for a hefty fine, and would probably have heightened IRS scrutiny of prior tax filings.

Nevertheless, Romney's omission of the form from the earlier disclosure raises questions for tax policy experts about the function of his Swiss bank account, and whether or not Romney used other offshore bank accounts that did not generate interest.

"The campaign has never told us why he had a Swiss bank account," said Rebecca Wilkins, senior counsel for federal tax policy at Citizens for Tax Justice, a nonprofit tax reform group. "It just looks bad."

To date, with about 90 days before the election, Romney has not provided one single complete tax return.

And I think it's pretty darn fair for the public to receive the missing "Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts" form because it's obviously an eyebrow raiser for a candidate for president storing his money outside the US particularly when he's been 'retroactively' retired for years.

[xxqqqzme]

35. According to a tax attorney

on Spitzer's program, there is a current amnesty program for person w/ offshore accounts. The amnesty extends back to 2003. So all the millionaires can amend returns to include the disclosure forms for the accounts. If rmoney is in the process of taking advantage of this amnesty and amending returns, then we will know how long and the amount of money is sitting in tax havens. I speculate, he does not want anyone to know this.


(It makes no difference to me but he probably also hid those accounts from the LDS and probably under tithed. Will he then owe LDS millions? What retribution is there for persons lying to the LDS powers that be?)

[hootinholler]

26. Personally I think there was a theft

Not that he didn't pay taxes legally, that wouldn't be a real problem because Republicans like that shit.

I think there was a theft in hiding money overseas and not reporting the income, and that he took advantage of the amnesty program.

[CrispyQ]

41. I think it's possible he even got a tax refund. Legally, of course!

But if ever there was a candidate that represents the 1%, it's the multi-multi-millionaire candidate who got a tax refund.

[malaise]

8. 100% correct

Rmoney must put up or get out of the race

[djean111]

9. I don't think Romney "stole" from the treasury so much as

took advantage of the ridiculous tax breaks the rich are given.
The theft is actually Congress giving the rich those special favors.
And Mitt taking advantage of that is a stark contrast to his wanting to raise taxes on the middle class because we all have to pay our fair share.
That the loopholes and special favors exist at all is the theft.

I think not reporting a crime is complicity, but then maybe I watch Law and Order too much.

[kentuck]

15. True, we don't know if a crime, per se, was committed.

But, we don't know that a crime was not committed either? Even with loopholes, it is difficult to get away with not paying anything.

[90-percent]

12. Question

didn't Romney give McCain's 2008 campaign five or ten years of his tax returns as part of the V.P. vetting process?

It seems like somebody in the McCain campaign could have leaked that by now? I just wonder why they haven't? Everything in DC gets leaked.

-90% jimmy

[kentuck]

16. I doubt that is true.

He can't even get two years together now. How could he get 5-10 years together then? My hunch is that he didn't give them any tax returns and he only told them that he did not pay any taxes for about 10 years. And that is probably where this entire story is originating, in my opinion. Was Steve Schmidt the campaign manager for McCain? That would be a good starting place.

[Myrina]

18. because he says he can't "get 2 years together" now ...

... doesn't mean he can't. It does indicate that he doesn't WANT to.
So maybe he DID provide 10 years' worth to McCain and then realized what a disqualifier it would be. And then also realized that maybe he should 'forget' where the copies are so nobody else sees them.

[Shrek]

22. Reid says the info comes from a "Bain investor"

How is the McCain campaign relevant?

I'm also wondering how an "investor" got access to 10 years worth of Romney's returns. I'll remain a little skeptical until there's more info to substantiate the credibility of the source.

[sendero]

13. First of all..

.. for rich people like Romney, paying zero taxes is not necessarily illegal. So you analogy falls apart from the beginning.

OTOH, I was thinking the same thing about "put up or shut up". Reid HAS "put up" and now only Romney can "put up".

Romney is either a certified idiot or he's so convinced of his own genius that he thinks everyone else is.

[kentuck]

17. "Not necessarily illegal".

True. Innocent until proven guilty?

[sendero]

47. No..

... the rich has bought the tax code they want. There are dodges all over it that can be taken advantage of by those with the means. Some of them are iffy, some of them are not. In any event it is hard to claim you understand the plight of the little man when you make hundreds of millions putting them out of work and then not even paying taxes on any of it.

[GoCubsGo]

24. It may not be illegal, but...

Wasn't it the GOP that raised such a HUGE stink about President Obama's appointees' and how much taxes they did or didn't pay? They're still harping on Tim Geithener's taxes, which are a drop in the bucket compared to Romney's. They pulled the same shit on Bill Clinton. (See: Zoey Baird, for example) What sauce that's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the the republicans want to make an issue of Democrats' taxes, then they need to put up their own, especially when it comes to the highest, most powerful office in the country.

[dkf]

30. Reid needs to give up his source

I still don't understand why anyone at Bain would have his tax returns. What if Reid has been led into a trap?

[morningfog]

43. Romney needs to release his returns. This is not about Reid.

[RevStPatrick]

19. I'm really beginning to think this is a rather silly issue.

Romney is only required to be over 35 years old, born in the U.S. and to have lived here for more than 14 years in order to be eligible to be president. He is not required to show anyone his tax returns. Quite obviously, he paid little or no taxes for 10 years or more, and did so legally. He and his 1 percenter pals have stacked the tax code totally in their favor, and everybody knows this. No crime necessary.

What the fuck else do you need to make an informed decision?

Now it just sounds like whining and hyperbole.

[kentuck]

20. We get the government we deserve.

Because that is what we expect.

"What the fuck else do you need to make an informed decision?" Huh?

[99Forever]

21. "What the fuck else do you need to make an informed decision?"

His fucking tax returns for the last 10 years. Aren't you paying attention?

This dickhead wants to be the Prez. We hire the Prez. He meets OUR requirements. If not, no fucking job.

[RevStPatrick]

23. There is no requirement whatsoever for him to release his taxes.

This is nothing more than a tradition.
A tradition, ironically enough, begun by his father.

He doesn't want to release his taxes.
Fair enough.
I'm going to assume that this means that he doesn't want us to see something in there, and that something is most likely that he has paid little or no taxes because the game is stacked in his favor.

That's all the information I need.

[99Forever]

27. Wrong.

If any candidate for POTUS wants my fucking vote there is that requirement. WE set the requirements for hiring, not him or his handlers.

[RevStPatrick]

37. There ya go!

In other words, you have all the information you need to know that you will not be voting for him.

[99Forever]

44. I'm sorry you just don't get it.

And if you would, kindly cease and desist putting words in my mouth.

Have a nice day.

[RevStPatrick]

46. Of course I get it!

I so totally get it.
It's a game of 3 dimensional chess.
And Romney is losing. Badly!

The only legal requirements to be POTUS = Over 35, born in the U.S. and have lived here for at least 14 years. That's it, end of legal requirements.

On top of that, we have all kinds of other, personal requirements in order for us to vote for a particular candidate. We can each have whatever requirements we require before deciding to vote for someone. Some of us require intelligence from our candidates, while others only care that he is white. Some us look for honesty and clarity, while others want the biggest, baddest daddy-figure mofo on the block. Some of us want our candidates to be able to articulate their positions on the issues, while others want to vote for a guy they can have a beer with.

As a show of good faith, in 1968, George Romney released 12 years of his income tax returns, to help quell the notion that the rich man running for POTUS would not have a conflict of interest. It was a great thing for him to do, and it became a tradition among serious candidates to do the same. Fast forward 44 years later, and his son refuses to do that same thing, most likely because he knows it will show that he will have a serious conflict of interest! He doesn't legally have to release his taxes, and you can't make him.

However, there will be consequences for him not doing so. I happen to like those consequences, because it means that many voters, independents in particular, will assume that he won't release them because they will show that he pays little, if any tax on his ginormous income. Therefore... he loses!

It's not that complicated, and it's not that big a deal. This is going to be one of many reasons why the man will never be POTUS. I can't get all poutraged about the guy not doing something he is not required to do. I can, however, enjoy watching him squirm!

Question - If Romney were to release his taxes tomorrow and they showed that he paid the top federal tax rate of 35% with no deductions... would you then vote for him?

I didn't think so...

[99Forever]

49. And you keep saying it's about...

.. who I will vote for.

So no, you really don't get it.

[RevStPatrick]

50. Quoting myself above...

"...I happen to like those consequences, because it means that many voters, independents in particular, will assume that he won't release them because they will show that he pays little, if any tax on his ginormous income. Therefore... he loses!"

[Paladin]

28. Why Should Such An Effective Tactic Be Abandoned?

You may be happy and content, but easing up on Romney's failure to divulge tax information would be an unpardonable blunder on the part of the Obama campaign.

[RevStPatrick]

39. I don't think the Obama administration should abandon this tactic.

I think it's working out very nicely for them, in fact. They've put Mittens in a spot where he's fucked if he does and fucked if he doesn't.

However, I do think that it's kinda silly for a bunch of anonymous people on the internet to be making demands of someone they have no intention of voting for in the first place.

[sendero]

48. There is no requirement..,.

... that he not pick his nose on the podium, but see if he gets elected doing it.

The FACT is, Romney is RUNNING on his BUSINESS ACUMEN and his promise to FIX THE ECONOMY.

Yes, his tax returns are relevant.

[oldhippie]

38. So, do you think there is going to be anything .....

.... in Rmoney's returns that will cause anyone here to vote for him? We're going to look them over and say, "Hey, he's not such a bad guy after all!" ? What is the point of us having his returns? We're not going to vote for him. His base will vote for him in any case. And the so-called independents will vote on issues other than his tax returns. They already know he pays little to no taxes, and they know why such people have foreign accounts.

I think it's just we want to be able to express more outrage. It isn't going to change any votes.

[coalition_unwilling]

45. I agree that the release of returns will not change any votes, provided the returns do not

reveal felonious conduct. But each day Romney does not release returns makes him look more and more shifty and, consequently, less and less presidential. Only exception other than felonies might be if release proved that Romney shorted the Mormons on the 10% tithe - might cost Romney some devout Mormon votes.

The framing is so simple: "What does Romney have to hide?"

Should be one of the Dems mantra from here thru Nov, imho.

[liberalmuse]

29. The ball is really in Mitt's court.

And I hope Reid will continue to chuck it back at him until November. He may not have to release his taxes, but everyone of us should be questioning why, and whether or not someone who is so secretive about their finances and secretive to the point where they are consistently hostile to reporters is fit to be President. They are not. He's sneakier than Nixon, and probably more unfit than W.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. Did Willard's spokesperson really say "Put up or shut up?"

Really? What an extraordinary sentiment...

[EpsilonZer0]

32. Where's the beef?

You can't go around accusing people of wrong doing without evidence.

The burden is on the accuser not the defendant.

If Reid had the evidence then he would have made it public, but instead he went out on the floor and made a fool of himself. The phrase 'all bark but no bite' comes to mind. If this is all Obama has then I'm sorry to say it but he's in trouble.

This would be no different than if Romney had a 'source' that says Obama didn't get good grades at Harvard. Nobody has seen Obama's transcripts probably because it could be twisted around to hurt him, so its better not to release them.

Same thing with Romney. Our tax system is so complicated that no matter what he released, even if perfectly legal, it could be twisted to hurt him.

I have no doubt, Reid is making a play to coax the tax returns from Romney for this very purpose, but it looks like Romney learned his lesson from his father.

[bayareaboy]

34. So where did you get the rules for playing ...

Your Mama.

Mitten's can either come up with some substance or shut up and either be a whiner which he seems to be or figure that all this will pass over, which it won't.

Mr Zero, it is nice to see someone jumping into fray so soon. Have fun here.

[Major Nikon]

40. This isn't a court of law

And Reid isn't accusing Willard of criminal wrongdoing. Reid may be a lot of things, but he's not a liar. No doubt his source asked for anonymity and Reid is honoring that request. That's what honorable people do.

If you want to know where the beef is, consider that every candidate for President has released their tax returns for the past 40 years, a tradition started by Rmoney's father. Not releasing his tax returns is already hurting Rmoney. One can only guess that what is inside them is far worse.

[valerief]

33. When you buy a Congress to make your crimes legal, they're still crimes. nt

[Major Nikon]

36. Reid fully predicted Willard's response

He said at the time the burden of proof was on Willard.

[NMlib]

42. We the middle class pay our fair share each paycheck

Via federal and state withholding. The treasury has our hard earned fair share all year and we settle the balance when we file our taxes. As a CPA and tax preparer for over 25 years I've witnessed how skewed the tax code is to benefit the wealthy.