What Ever Happened To ZPG Or The Idea Of Sustainable Growth?

[TheMastersNemesis]

Family values promoting unlimited population growth are decimating the planet. We are now headed to 9 billion in population on a planet that cannot support 7 billion at a decent level of life. If we do not address global warming and over population the planet will make its own adjustments.

Most of our problems in the world are centered around lack of resources for growing populations. Now with global warming and severe drought and rain cycles food production is being threatened. It is already obvious that we are stripping the oceans in such a manner that protein production is most likely declining.

In the end denial will not matter to our species because the Malthus scenario will take over. When anthropologists and archaeologists look at what happened on Easter Island they know that the population stripped that island of all the resources that were needed to support that population. Easter Island is just one small example of what is probably happening to Earth.

Sadly everywhere you look on the planet species other than us are under distress. Wild areas are disappearing at an ever faster growing rate. Potable and usable drinking water is disappearing for larger populations of third world populations as well as populations in developed countries.

The only thing that conservatives conserve are ways to doom the planet. The rich are already working on sequestering the most important resources for themselves. Gated communities, no taxes for the rich and austerity for the 99% are already an example of what people like the Koch's are up to.

[Warpy]

1. Increasing poverty took care of all but the religious crazies

and people have really limited their families. Most of my old boomer friends just had one or two kids. The same goes for the younger nurses I worked with. All people could think about was feeding, clothing and educating them with side trips into things like band camp. There is nothing like an extra kid to derail the American Dream.

[1-Old-Man]

2. It may surprise you to learn that negative population growth is a much worse problem

To many people this seems to be a serious problem, and for a long time it looked like we were headed that way, but as I read about it the current problem that most of the industrial nations face is a declining population, something that in economic terms is far worse than our current situation.

[KurtNYC]

3. How does declining birth rate become a "problem" ?

China actively managed their birth rate to make it decline and they are raising their standard of living. The WHO and other organizations have gone around the world promoting birth control. Among the highest incomes and standards of living in the world is Germany while their birth rate has fallen to a 60 year low and is well below the rate needed to sustain their population.

Seems to me that mindless capitalism and manufacturing goods that are designed to fail in 18 months and be manufactured, transported, financed, retailed, and replaced again and again are what got us into this mess. Burning mega fossil fuel for a huge population is a problem. Now we face crop failures due to weather extremes. Something's gotta give.

[NutmegYankee]

5. Social health/retirement systems

You end up with less and less young people to support the elders. Plus many industries would falter, such as home building.

[Zoeisright]

7. So, what, we just keep having more and more and more kids?

Something has to give at some point. And it seems to me that if we actually had a citizenry that supported the government, we would be able to support the elderly without cranking out more kids.

[NutmegYankee]

9. Well, the idea of ZPG was a stable population.

Versus shrinking. And yes, I'm a ZPG supporter.

[bhikkhu]

6. Economic transitions are nothing new

and nothing that we haven't been dealing with for the last several centuries. We found different ways to do things during the industrial revolution, improving the lives of millions who formerly spent their days in menial jobs of thankless labor. We found different ways of doing things as the computers of the information age eliminated millions of desk jobs. Both of those were on a larger scale than negative population growth - which we have had off and on in the US since 1931, if you separate out immigration.

Every age has its problems to deal with, and the problems of declining growth are much easier to solve than the problems of endless growth - given a finite planet.

[kestrel91316]

4. I've done my part.

[snooper2]

8. What needs to be addressed is people believing in mythology

Fundies don't wear condoms and don't have abortions-

2005-2010 List by the United Nations

Rank Country Population
growth rate (%)
1 Liberia 4.50
2 Burundi 3.90
3 Afghanistan 3.85
4 Western Sahara 3.72
5 East Timor 3.50
6 Niger 3.49
7 Eritrea 3.24
8 Uganda 3.24
9 DR Congo 3.22
10 Palestinian territories 3.18
11 Jordan 3.04
12 Mali 3.02
13 Benin 3.02
14 Guinea-Bissau 2.98
15 Yemen 2.97
16 Somalia 2.92
17 Burkina Faso 2.89
18 Chad 2.88
19 United Arab Emirates 2.85
20 Angola 2.78
21 Rwanda 2.76
22 Madagascar 2.66
23 Kenya 2.65
24 Togo 2.65
25 Gambia 2.63
26 Malawi 2.57
27 Mauritania 2.53
28 Syria 2.52
29 Ethiopia 2.51
30 Tanzania 2.47
31 Guatemala 2.47
32 Senegal 2.46
33 Comoros[4] 2.46
34 Kuwait 2.44
35 French Guiana 2.41
36 Equatorial Guinea 2.38
37 Vanuatu 2.38
38 Solomon Islands 2.33
39 Nigeria 2.27
40 Saudi Arabia 2.24
41 Cape Verde 2.23
42 Marshall Islands 2.23
43 Sudan 2.22
44 Guinea 2.16
45 Republic of the Congo 2.11
46 Qatar 2.11
47 Belize 2.08
48 Brunei 2.05
49 Sierra Leone 2.04
50 American Samoa 2.01
51 Papua New Guinea 2.00
52 Cameroon 2.00
53 Ghana 1.99
54 Oman 1.97
55 Nepal 1.97
56 Libya 1.97
57 Honduras 1.95
58 Mozambique 1.95
59 Northern Mariana Islands 1.95
60 Zambia 1.91
61 Djibouti 1.90
62 Pakistan 1.84
63 Cote d'Ivoire 1.84
64 Iraq 1.84
65 Central African Republic 1.83
66 Paraguay 1.80
67 Bahrain 1.79
68 Bolivia 1.77
69 Ireland 1.77
70 Maldives 1.76
71 Egypt 1.76
72 Cambodia 1.74
73 Laos 1.74
74 Philippines 1.72
75 Malaysia 1.69
76 Bangladesh 1.67
77 Venezuela 1.67
78 Israel 1.66
79 Panama 1.65
80 Sao Tome and Principe 1.61
81 Haiti 1.58
82 Kiribati 1.58
83 New Caledonia 1.54
84 Tajikistan 1.51
85 Algeria 1.51
86 Cayman Islands 1.51
87 Costa Rica 1.50
88 Gabon 1.48
89 Dominican Republic 1.47
90 India 1.46
91 Uzbekistan 1.44
92 Bhutan 1.43
93 Anguilla 1.41
94 El Salvador 1.37
95 Turks and Caicos Islands 1.37
96 Iran 1.35
97 Netherlands Antilles 1.33
98 Vietnam 1.32
99 Turkmenistan 1.32
100 Namibia 1.32
101 French Polynesia 1.31
102 Nicaragua 1.31
103 Guam 1.30
104 Saint Kitts and Nevis 1.27
105 Colombia 1.27
106 Réunion 1.27
107 Brazil 1.26
108 Turkey 1.26
109 Botswana 1.23
110 Saint Helena[5] 1.23
111 Morocco 1.20
112 Bahamas 1.20
113 Singapore 1.19
- World 1.17
114 Indonesia 1.16
115 Antigua and Barbuda 1.16
116 Peru 1.15
117 Montserrat 1.15
118 Luxembourg 1.13
119 British Virgin Islands 1.13
120 Mexico 1.12
121 Saint Lucia 1.12
122 Kyrgyzstan 1.10
123 Tunisia 1.08
124 Ecuador 1.07
125 Cyprus 1.06
126 Lebanon 1.05
127 Australia 1.01
128 Chile 1.00
129 Argentina 1.00
130 Hong Kong 1.00
131 United States 0.97
132 Mongolia 0.96
133 Zimbabwe 0.95
134 Canada 0.90
135 New Zealand 0.90[6]
136 Liechtenstein 0.89
137 Samoa 0.87
138 Myanmar 0.85
139 Iceland 0.84
140 San Marino 0.81
141 Mauritius 0.78
142 Spain 0.77
143 Azerbaijan 0.75
144 Kazakhstan 0.71
145 Macau 0.70
146 Guadeloupe 0.68
147 Faroe Islands 0.68
148 Thailand 0.66
149 Wallis and Futuna 0.66
150 Lesotho 0.63
151 Swaziland 0.63
152 Norway 0.62
153 Fiji 0.62
154 Greenland 0.60
155 Falkland Islands 0.59
156 Albania 0.57
157 Suriname 0.56
158 South Africa 0.55
159 Puerto Rico 0.55
160 Jamaica 0.54
161 Tonga 0.50
162 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 0.50
163 Sweden 0.49
164 France[7] 0.49
165 Seychelles 0.49
166 United Kingdom 0.48
167 People's Republic of China[8] 0.48
168 Sri Lanka 0.47
169 Micronesia 0.46
170 Malta 0.43
171 Tuvalu 0.42
172 Palau 0.41
173 Switzerland 0.38
174 Portugal 0.37
175 Trinidad and Tobago 0.37
176 Austria 0.36
177 Andorra 0.36
178 Republic of China (Taiwan)[9] 0.36
179 North Korea 0.34
180 Monaco 0.33
181 South Korea 0.33
182 Barbados 0.32
183 Finland 0.29
184 Nauru 0.29
185 Uruguay 0.29
186 Martinique 0.28
187 Bermuda 0.25
188 Belgium 0.24
189 Netherlands 0.21
190 Greece 0.21
191 Denmark 0.21
192 Channel Islands[10] 0.19
193 Bosnia and Herzegovina 0.13
194 Italy 0.13
195 Serbia 0.13
196 Gibraltar 0.08
197 Macedonia 0.08
198 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 0.07
199 Vatican City 0.05
200 Isle of Man 0.04
201 Slovakia 0.03
202 Grenada 0.02
203 Slovenia 0.01
204 Aruba 0.01
205 Pitcairn Islands 0.00
206 Cuba -0.01
207 Japan -0.02
208 Tokelau -0.03
209 United States Virgin Islands -0.03
210 Czech Republic -0.03
211 Germany -0.07
212 Croatia -0.09
213 Poland -0.15
214 Armenia -0.21
215 Guyana -0.22
216 Montenegro -0.27
217 Dominica -0.29
218 Hungary -0.29
219 Estonia -0.35
220 Romania -0.45
221 Russia -0.51
222 Latvia -0.52
223 Lithuania -0.53
224 Belarus -0.55
225 Bulgaria -0.72
226 Ukraine -0.76
227 Georgia -0.79
228 Moldova -0.90
229 Niue -1.85
230 Cook Islands -2.23