Boy, Romney really sucks.

[Bonobo]

Yup, we can all agree. He is a wooden, lying, heartless jerk.

But after repeating it over and over and over and over, I have to wonder from time to time just how -even in theory- the endless repetition of this is supposed to accomplish any change in the country for the better.

Romney will lose. It is a virtual guarantee. But even if it WASN'T, let me ask you this.

Does anyone think that Republican politicians will change their tunes because we sit behind their backs laughing at them or even rationally criticizing them?

Does anyone think that Republican voters will switch to Democrats if we simply ridicule their politicians enough?

Just WHO do Democratic voters have influence with? Is it with Democratic candidates or is it with Republican candidates?

And if the answer is former, not the latter, why is so much time wasted on ridiculing and criticizing the Republicans. We already KNOW they are misguided jerks. Should we not be trying to use our only card -our VOTES - to influence the direction of out own candidates?

Yes, I know you will say that is what the primary is for. But it is not enough. We never even HAD a primary and so, in lieu of that, surely before an election is the time to use what little leverage exists to move our party back to the left where it once was.

OK, rant over. Please get back to talking about how funny Romney walks. After all, I know everyone here is an expert on walking because you are invariably going to post about being able to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time...

Sigh.

[SunsetDreams]

1. I appreciate your post

however I believe we can and should do both.

[fried eggs]

2. This. It's impossible not to laugh at SarahMney

But we should also do the footwork necessary to turn this country blue.

[Bonobo]

5. Yes, and it needs to be remembered

that "Blue" is not defined as "the opposite of red".

We must define ourselves by principles and not simply in opposition to the other side -otherwise we could be virtual Republicans and still claim to be blue as long as we are a fraction less right wing then the opposition.

Values. Strong advocacy of our values. Because they are right and because they represent (theoretically) the interests of a FAR larger segment of the voters.

How is it even POSSIBLE that in a society of 99% vs. 1% economically, that the party that claims to represent the rich and the party that claims to represent the poor wind up in a 50-50 split ALL the fucking time. If I was a cynical guy, I might suspect something fishy was going on...

[Lex]

3. This has been going on in politics since politics was born. It certainly predates this country.

The making fun of the other's candidate, I mean.

[Bonobo]

6. That is as true as it is irrelevant to my point.

Yes it has always been going on because it is easy and like a self-congratulatory pat on your own back, it feels good.

But it is ultimately just a self-soothing, meaningless gesture.

I am just asking --is that basically what DU is all about? Is that how people really feel their energies in political conversation are best spent?

[SunsetDreams]

8. Are you trying to shut down discussion about Romney and

the GOP?

Are you saying that we should only be discussing the Democratic Party here?

I'm not sure how that fits into the overall culture on the reason Democratic Underground was started in the first place. The threads that get posted here are not just for our eyes only, they do wind up on the internet. This is not a private forum.

[Bonobo]

10. It is not possible for me to shut down discussion so it is a moot point.

What I am trying to do is to get SOME people here to see that change can only be achieved politically by trying to influence those with whom we HAVE influence.

Is there something wrong with that?

It is just an OP. One among many. But I don't think the message is made enough.

[SunsetDreams]

11. I don't get the point of some of the questions in your OP then sorry

But after repeating it over and over and over and over, I have to wonder from time to time just how -even in theory- the endless repetition of this is supposed to accomplish any change in the country for the better.

Does anyone think that Republican politicians will change their tunes because we sit behind their backs laughing at them or even rationally criticizing them?

Does anyone think that Republican voters will switch to Democrats if we simply ridicule their politicians enough?

Just WHO do Democratic voters have influence with? Is it with Democratic candidates or is it with Republican candidates?

And if the answer is former, not the latter, why is so much time wasted on ridiculing and criticizing the Republicans. We already KNOW they are misguided jerks. Should we not be trying to use our only card -our VOTES - to influence the direction of out own candidates?

Those questions are what prompted me to ask if you were trying to shut down discussion about Romney and the GOP. DU has a rich history of criticizing the GOP, in fact it is ONE of the reasons this site was created. I guess a suggestion would be to hide those threads that you don't feel are important.

[Bonobo]

12. No offense, but I think you really don't get it

if you think the answer is for me to simply hide threads.


You asked if I am trying to "shut down" discussions of Romney. I answered but will repeat. No, not only is it not possible but it is not what I am trying to do.

What I AM trying to do is assert, because I think it cannot be emphasized enough, that we must affect change, using our limited influence, with the party that we belong to. We cannot influence the opposition and making fun of Romney may be a fun pastime, but it is worth very little in terms of affecting the political conversation.

[SunsetDreams]

14. I do get what you are saying

Like I said in my first post, we can and should do both.

Your post came off as a complaint about threads criticizing the GOP.

Does anyone think that Republican politicians will change their tunes because we sit behind their backs laughing at them or even rationally criticizing them?

Does anyone think that Republican voters will switch to Democrats if we simply ridicule their politicians enough?

DU has a rich history of doing just that.

In fact I will cite this part of the TOS

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office.

Our opposition is the GOP first and foremost. Criticizing them should be a given. Does that mean that we can't or should not talk about moving our party back to the left? No of course not. When you say we cannot influence the opposition, that may be true when it comes to Republican politicians, but I don't agree that it is true when it comes to voters. Our posts, like I said, are on the internet. This isn't a private forum where you have to be a member to even read the posts.

I do get what you said in the OP, and I get what you have said in responses in this thread. I just don't happen to agree with your position.

[Lex]

9. Well, no, that was part of your point.

You said, "Does anyone think that Republican voters will switch to Democrats if we simply ridicule their politicians enough?"

No probably not, but it's not going to change because it's a part of politics and always has been.

[elleng]

4. 'Back to the left' would only happen if we took both the House and Senate with BIG numbers.

Best we can hope for, imo, is to inform and remind 'independents/undecideds' why they should vote Dem this time, so continually pointing out rmoney's faults may have some benefit.

[Bonobo]

7. Even IF we took the house and senate in big numbers, it wouldn't make a difference

Unless we FIRST reclaimed the essence of what it means to be a Democrat.

Simply wearing the blue jersey doesn't make a difference.

Think of a football game. 100 yards. Their side and our side.

But if it was suddenly cut in half to 50 yards and we were deep in our own territory... say the other team had the ball on our 1 yard line...

In that case, just bringing the ball back to the 50 yard line wouldn't be a touchdown even though it would FEEL like one. It would just be mid-field....

That's what things feel like to me these days. The Republicans have pushed us so deep in our own territory that even a marginal gain feels good but we fail to see that we are STILL deep in our own territory.

And the Dems have been giving up yardage to the Repubs steadily for the last 30 years.

[scheming daemons]

13. if you succeed in moving obama left before the election, you guarantee his defeat

Your strategy will lead to the opposite of your goal.

It will lead to a Romney presidency.

[Bonobo]

15. Oh. Really?

How do you lose by supporting the needs of the 99% over the 1%?

I think you drank the kool-aid.

And furthermore, the corollary of what you said to me is also true. If we attain victory by putting aside what we stand for, have we won? Are we even the party that we purport to be?

[Fozzledick]

16. I think he may lose his chance of winning uncommitted voters if he keeps looking like a fool

And if they're constantly reminded of it by hearing him publicly ridiculed.

This election can't be won by converting hard-core Republicans. It will probably be decided by the apathetic middle who don't pay much attention and are easily swayed by whatever message they hear last and loudest. Seeing Romney consistently portrayed as inept and incompetent may well have a significant effect on them.

[Bonobo]

17. I can't really disagree with that.

Thanks for the input.

[B Calm]

18. I'm glad you are so confident he will lose. .

[EmeraldCityGrl]

19. It makes Dems appear mean and petty. It's so tiresome and distracts

from Obama's image of being mature, dignified and above the fray yet, engaged and compassionate.

[ThoughtCriminal]

20. Humor speaks truth to power

There is often more truth in one political cartoon than hours of CNN.. When virtually nobody in the media and very few in Congress would dare question Bush Jr., the only cracks in the wall were exposed by people like John Stewart and Stephen Cobert.

And much of the ridicule is not of the "He walks funny" variety. The best satire and ridicule addresses the hypocrisy, the out of touch CEO mentality and the cruelty of Republican leadership.

I would also suggest that we are much better at it than the right. Conservative attempts at political humor is hopelessly crippled (see Mallard Filmore). Liberal humor works because it comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable.