Sun Jan 1, 2012, 08:31 PM

msanthrope (16,505 posts)

Glenn Greenwald Unethically Taped Witnesses While Working for Matt Hale, White Supremacist.

For me, Glenn Greenwald has always been an asshole. There's never been a point in time when I admired him, and then disliked him because of his stance on Obama. I have always found Glenn Greenwald to be unerringly poor at choosing who to associate with, and defend.

Case in point:

Glenn Greenwald made a choice to defend Matthew Hale in a series of civil lawsuits that Hale faced after he encouraged shooter Benjamin Smith to go on a two-state shooting rampage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Nathaniel_Smith

If you don't know who Hale is, well, he's a pretty famous white supremacist who is currently serving 40 years for soliciting the murder of a federal judge who ruled against him in a trademark case. Who put him away? Patrick Fitzgerald. (Yes. And Mr. Greenwald got an FBI visit regarding the passing of coded messages by Hale while under SAMS restrictions.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_F._Hale

Mr. Hale, for his role in the shootings, was sued by a number of survivors. This included a case filed by two teenage Orthodox Jewish boys. And another case filed by a Black minister. These people were selected by Benjamin Smith because they looked like the religious/ethnic minorities they are.

And Glenn Greenwald called them 'odious and repugnant' for suing his client--

Indeed the Center's suit appears to link Hale's rejection into the bar to Smith's "rampage." In late June, the state bar's Committee on Character and Fitness again denied Hale's petition to join the bar. Smith, who had testified as a character witness for Hale that April, began shooting two days later. "Immediately after the Illinois State Bar's decision and as part of the World Church of the Creator's war, Smith ... began a rampage of genocidal violence," the lawsuit states.

And while Hale himself has linked the shootings to his bar application in the past, he said Tuesday that it's ridiculous to think he had any control over Smith.

SNIP

Further, Greenwald said, "I find that the people behind these lawsuits are truly so odious and repugnant, that creates its own motivation for me."

The first suit, filed in state court by Chicago attorney Michael Ian Bender on behalf of two Orthodox Jewish teens shot at in Rogers Park, is pending, though a circuit judge in Chicago threw out allegations that Smith's parents were somehow responsible for the shootings.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/hale/hale33.html

It wasn't enough that Glenn took the case, which was his right to do. No--he had to insult the Plaintiffs--shooting victims. And then, he unethically taped the witnesses he subpoenaed, even directing their statements. A court found that he violated TWO separate rules--

"The magistrate judge granted both motions, finding defense counsel's conduct unethical under two separate rules: Local Rule 83.58.4(a)(4), prohibiting "dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;" and Local Rule 83.54.4, stating "a lawyer shall not ... use methods of obtaining evidence that violate the legal rights of person.""ANDERSON v. HALE 159 F.Supp.2d 1116 (2001)

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=20011275159FSupp2d1116_11178.xml

He also attempted to manipulate the witness statements, per the magistrate's findings of fact-

"A 52-page transcript of one conversation showed defendants' counsel steered the conversation by eliciting particular responses to detailed questions, leading to more detailed questions, to lure the witness into damning statements for later use." Anderson v. Hale, 202 F.R.D. 548 (N.D.Ill. 2001),

That's right--Glenn Greenwald, self-proclaimed civil rights lawyer, violated the civil right of witnesses. The New York Bar later wrote a clarifying opinion on the ethics of said taping, referencing this case--

http://www2.nycbar.org/Publications/reports/show_html.php?rid=122

And of course, Glenn Greenwald thinks Matthew Hale is wrongly imprisoned by Prosecutor Fitzgerald.

"Mr. Greenwald, who said he believed that Mr. Hale was wrongly imprisoned, said he did not recall the exact message Ms. Hutcheson relayed to him, or the person it was intended for, but that he had declined to deliver it. He called the message "a caricature of what a coded message would be.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/09/national/09hale.html?pagewanted=print&position=

I've never been enthralled by Glenn. And I wasn't surprised to find out all this information, either. I wonder where, and if, Mr. Greenwald retains a law license.

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199 replies	Author	Time	Post
Glenn Greenwald Unethically Taped Witnesses While Working for Matt Hale, White Supremacist. (Original post)	msanthrope	Jan 2012	OP
IDWGDI ...	Kahuna	Jan 2012	#1
+1 lol	bahrbearian	Jan 2012	#2
"Wiretapping for me, but not for thee...." nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#3
This is so complicated IDK what he did. But this and another thread makes him seem like O'Keefe.	freshwest	Jan 2012	#133
So it seems.	AtomicKitten	Jan 2012	#177
Woah. That's fucked up.	DevonRex	Jan 2012	#4
You are quite welcome. I hope to do a little more digging regarding the Hale case and Glenn's	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#9
It is indeed.	TheWraith	Jan 2012	#115
Wow, that seems rather odious.	MH1	Jan 2012	#5
Good post...	SidDithers	Jan 2012	#6
I love Sgt. Hulka. He's my big toe. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#12
Interesting. All of this is new to me.	MineralMan	Jan 2012	#7
wow....just Wow!	Spazito	Jan 2012	#8
But, he's a progressive, you see...	MineralMan	Jan 2012	#10
Are you saying people don't change?	Change has come	Jan 2012	#164
Gee funny how you left this out	dsc	Jan 2012	#11
That doesnt fit the orchestrated campaign to slime a blogger that dares question Obama	DJ13	Jan 2012	#15
It has nothing to do with Obama.	ClassWarrior	Jan 2012	#112
In response to those who dare question Glenn	treestar	Jan 2012	#166
Yes. Being told you are not so much unethical as incompetent is something every lawyer clings to.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#16
Ignorance of one's own cited link is no defense, either	brentspeak	Jan 2012	#28
You mean "The magistrate judge granted both motions, finding defense counsel's conduct unethical"	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#37
Defense counsel could have reasonably believed that his conduct was permissible.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#44
Since he neglected to read the local rules, that's true. So he can always claim ignorance	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#57
This message was hidden by jury decision.	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#55
How dare I quote Glenn Greenwald!!!! In a thread about, well, Glenn Greenwald.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#65
I've seen you quote people who purport to quote Greenwald, that's it	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#68
Oh, dear. Was poor Glenn misquoted? So many times??? nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#83
I don't know	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#85
Which quote??? I can't make you click the links and read. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#90
All of the quotes point to one source.	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#94
American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#99
Then you should link to that source.	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#101
Um, I did. Do you not understand how an archive works?	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#103
You should not be using questionable sources..	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#104
American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source. How is she not	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#105
You didn't link to American Lawyer Media or Molly McDonough.	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#107
You are posting falsely about Mr Ross. He was acquitted by jury trial***.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#108
Yeah, I'm a Scientologist..	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#110
Are you still suggesting that an article from a decade ago was altered to defame Glenn Greenwald?	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#111
Not to pick a fight but that would sort of be like saying	Nuclear Unicorn	Jan 2012	#139
Zzzz	guanubian	Jan 2012	#143
This is so sad. What's next, his guidance counselor said he was "surly?"	DirkGently	Jan 2012	#119
Great post!	Wind Dancer	Jan 2012	#150
OMFG!	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#13
I went to this link provided in the OP...	Spazito	Jan 2012	#21
You best look him up on wikipedia, it's a shocker.	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#23
well, wikipedia is good for geography...	Spazito	Jan 2012	#35
Defense counsel could have reasonably believed that his conduct was permissible	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#45
Yes--when he decided not the read the local rules, I am sure Mr. Greenwald thought	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#60
As someone else pointed out...	Spazito	Jan 2012	#74
Lawyers are rebuked regularly. I really can't get too worked up about this.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#91
Okay n/t	Spazito	Jan 2012	#95
So, Greenwald's invasion of privacy isn't troubling	geek tragedy	Jan 2012	#127
Here:	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#22
And that's why	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#24
American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#26
I already explained that to them.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#36
Why do you refer to me as 'them'	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#43
It's the new PUMA.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#48
"Singular they" as the "new PUMA"?	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#52
Nice racket.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#56
I don't know if you're a male or female, thus I use singular they.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#51
No, I'm referring to the body of your post	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#54
I dunno. I've recognized implicit support for Paul in your posts.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#64
I'm amazed you're allowed to get away with this kind of stuff	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#77
I think it was a fair assessment given the information available.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#81
Total garbage	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#92
I'm sorry for presenting that assumption, though.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#97
"knocking over liquor stores"?	boppers	Jan 2012	#120
You're right	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#121
It was salient enough to be mentioned.	boppers	Jan 2012	#124
There is a new game: get your opponent ronpauled out of here.	Warren Stupidity	Jan 2012	#100
Brilliant!	whatchamacallit	Jan 2012	#116
I've got a witch hunt list going...	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#136
You should read later in the thread--they're using Scientology propaganda to defend	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#109
This guy	brentspeak	Jan 2012	#30
Yes--did he change the source article? I couldn't hotlink from Lexis, but	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#39
Stop trying to silence Greenwald!	CakeGrrl	Jan 2012	#14
You never loved him.	AtomicKitten	Jan 2012	#82
Leave Glenn alone!	Capn Sunshine	Jan 2012	#169
And we unethically tape millions.	jpgray	Jan 2012	#17
well, well. I can't say that I'm surprised.	MjolnirTime	Jan 2012	#18
bookmarking.	Whisp	Jan 2012	#19
The district court specifically declined to label Greenwald as "unethical"	brentspeak	Jan 2012	#20
"The magistrate judge granted both motions, finding defense counsel's conduct unethical"	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#32
"It's not for the court to say"	brentspeak	Jan 2012	#38
It's not for the court to pass judgments of character, but of law. That's what they did. Glenn	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#40
They did not say he wasn't unethical.	geek tragedy	Jan 2012	#126
Zzzzz	guanubian	Jan 2012	#147
It's becoming clear to me that Glen Greenwald actually likes the Libertarian concepts...	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#25
In this thread, DUer's will defend taping without permission.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#27
In other threads, DUer's defend incinerating brown children.	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#59
Link?	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#69
Look at any thread that discusses Obama's drone wars	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#70
Don't see 'em. Interesting.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#76
guess you were lucky and missed that particular low point in DU history, then	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#80
How long ago was it?	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#84
It was at it's worst right after Awlaki's kid was murdered, along with his cousin.	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#88
Ahh, yes, that one.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#96
Geezus Christ.	Major Hogwash	Jan 2012	#29
Good job spreading RW smears.	baldguy	Jan 2012	#31
Public court documents are RW smears??? Then Greenwald's fucked. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#33
Karl Rove would be proud.	baldguy	Jan 2012	#50
Yes, he'd	ProSense	Jan 2012	#58
And taking statements out of context & twisting their meaning is a very Rovian thing to do.	baldguy	Jan 2012	#102
Glenn Greenwald is a great Journalist	fascisthunter	Jan 2012	#34
Corporatists? You do know that Greenwald thinks Citizen's United was rightly decided, correct?	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#42
I know we're not supposed to accuse DUer's of being liars, so I won't	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#62
Thank you for posting the column that Greenwald wrote in support of the decision.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#72
I did read it and I find it well reasoned and argued	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#78
Like the part where he compares the US judicial system to North Korea's?	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#87
So does the ACLU in strictly 1st Amendment grounds.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#66
And I think th ACLU is as mistaken as Greenwald. It's happened. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#75
Explain on Constitutioon grounds.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#79
I'm not sure what "Constitutioon grounds" are. If you start a thread about it,	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#98
Ooh. Clever.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#113
Why? Make a Constitutional argument as to why they are wrong?	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#93
No, he's not...	SidDithers	Jan 2012	#144
Oh dear.	JNelson6563	Jan 2012	#41
This thread: 13 recs. Thread on a pro-Greenwald thread earlier: 38 recs	Weisbergkevin	Jan 2012	#46
This	ProSense	Jan 2012	#53
which one?	MNBrewer	Jan 2012	#63
Thanks...	SomethingFishy	Jan 2012	#47
Interesting!	ProSense	Jan 2012	#49
Plus he's gay!	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#61
I cannot tell what being gay has to do with this thread, but I'm willing to hear your theory. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#67
No theory, just a statement of fact.	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#71
Oh, I think you've gone beyond questioning, haven't you? nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#73
No.	girl gone mad	Jan 2012	#86
Glenn is dead to me, now. UGH!	Odin2005	Jan 2012	#89
lol	pmorlan1	Jan 2012	#106
I've been posting this story for years here	frazzled	Jan 2012	#114
It's even worse than THAT--	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#117
Wow...there are just no words the more I hear. n/t	vaberella	Jan 2012	#130
Yikes...nt	SidDithers	Jan 2012	#145
Wow. n/t	vaberella	Jan 2012	#118
Wow, DU, how far we've fallen to defend scum like this.	joshcryer	Jan 2012	#122
Fascinating n/t	ProSense	Jan 2012	#125
Holy shit.	AtomicKitten	Jan 2012	#128
All on the front page of GD right now. Do you see the futility?	DeathToTheOil	Jan 2012	#123
This story really freaks me the fuck out.n/t	vaberella	Jan 2012	#129
Remember when Glenn Greenwald	_ed_	Jan 2012	#131
Is this	ProSense	Jan 2012	#132
I would have preferred that you link to my work...	guanubian	Jan 2012	#134
Oh my!! I went with the legal source....	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#135
Thanks, it's not a big deal.	guanubian	Jan 2012	#142
I'm glad you got some traffic. The 'rape a nun' fracas is disgusting--	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#146
So nasty for so long	guanubian	Jan 2012	#149
Welcome to DU...	SidDithers	Jan 2012	#167
Glenn has always oozed douchebaggery.	great white snark	Jan 2012	#137
he seems to have replaced Jane Hamster around here lately.	Whisp	Jan 2012	#138
He's treasurer of her PAC--	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#140
interesting stuff.	Whisp	Jan 2012	#141
Quite a bit of organized smear there.	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#148
Yay libel!	guanubian	Jan 2012	#151
Please edit out your second word--it's against community standards, and your post	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#153
Done	guanubian	Jan 2012	#155
Wait, wait, wait--did you just post an article criticize Greenwald while arguing for the Iraq War on	Puregonzo1188	Jan 2012	#162
Cultish Followers	guanubian	Jan 2012	#163
Pot. Meet Kettle.	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#171
Let me get this straight--someone who supports the Iraq War and opposes the Islamic Community Center	Puregonzo1188	Jan 2012	#191
Zzzzzz	guanubian	Jan 2012	#192
Spoken like a cultist	guanubian	Jan 2012	#194
Basic Reasoning	guanubian	Jan 2012	#195
I'm going to keep pawing you around until I can overcome my insomnia	guanubian	Jan 2012	#197
Dude. You are only playing with yourself.	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#198
Waay late to the party....	Rob H	May 2012	#199
So, you are a neocon, eh?	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#168
So, you are a child molester, eh?	guanubian	Jan 2012	#193
Just looking up Fightin with Grabes.	Luminous Animal	Jan 2012	#196
Touchy.	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#172
What is the RDLC? Googled it, found nothing. nt	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#152
The more accurate name of the party	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#170
he must have struck a nerve if people are going to this much trouble to dig up dirt on him	yurbud	Jan 2012	#154
Nothing strange here	guanubian	Jan 2012	#156
You insult the intelligence of DUers when you imply we will buy EVERYTHING someone says because we	yurbud	Jan 2012	#157
I find some of what Hitler says about the nature of propaganda useful, but	yurbud	Jan 2012	#158
That's a generality that skirts the issue.	guanubian	Jan 2012	#160
I would cite Hitler on propaganda because he used it very successfully	yurbud	Jan 2012	#178
You're continuing to miss the point	guanubian	Jan 2012	#179
Also	guanubian	Jan 2012	#161
Ron Paul, and Chomsky too	guanubian	Jan 2012	#159
Thanks for this, msanthrope. This is truly fascinating	Number23	Jan 2012	#165
Ah yes--Greenwald in his pre-Salon days. His piece on illegal immigration	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#173
Holy Smokes:	ProSense	Jan 2012	#174
Worthy of it's own thread, frankly....	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#175
His "explanations" are often far more revealing than his usual writings	Number23	Jan 2012	#176
In other words, he was for bigotry before he was against it?	Tarheel_Dem	Jan 2012	#185
I think people coming here to decapitate our intellectual heroes are not to be trusted	librechik	Jan 2012	#180
Funny how people who shouldn't be trusted keep getting	Jakes Progress	Jan 2012	#181
Glenn Greenwald = "intellectual hero"?!?	MH1	Jan 2012	#182
yeah, and it's obvious those who don't perceive this	librechik	Jan 2012	#183
..	MH1	Jan 2012	#190
I have never guillotined anyone in my life.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#186
This guy's a real beaut, ain't he?	Tarheel_Dem	Jan 2012	#184
I think he is a Libertarian who made his money being a pseudo-liberal/progressive.	msanthrope	Jan 2012	#187
"Libertarian who made his money being a pseudo-liberal/progressive". This is why I will always.....	Tarheel_Dem	Jan 2012	#188
To add to your point...	guanubian	Jan 2012	#189

Response to msanthrope (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 08:33 PM

Kahuna (26,403 posts)

1. IDWGDI ...

It's different when Glenn does it.

Glenn Greenwald Unethically Taped Witnesses While Working for Matt Hale, White Supremacist.

1. IDWGDI ...

2. +1 lol

3. "Wiretapping for me, but not for thee...." nt

133. This is so complicated IDK what he did. But this and another thread makes him seem like O'Keefe.

177. So it seems.

4. Woah. That's fucked up.

9. You are quite welcome. I hope to do a little more digging regarding the Hale case and Glenn's

115. It is indeed.

5. Wow, that seems rather odious.

6. Good post...

12. I love Sgt. Hulka. He's my big toe. nt

7. Interesting. All of this is new to me.

8. wow....just Wow!

10. But, he's a progressive, you see...

164. Are you saying people don't change?

11. Gee funny how you left this out

15. That doesnt fit the orchestrated campaign to slime a blogger that dares question Obama

112. It has nothing to do with Obama.

166. In response to those who dare question Glenn

16. Yes. Being told you are not so much unethical as incompetent is something every lawyer clings to.

28. Ignorance of one's own cited link is no defense, either

37. You mean "The magistrate judge granted both motions, finding defense counsel's conduct unethical"

44. Defense counsel could have reasonably believed that his conduct was permissible.

57. Since he neglected to read the local rules, that's true. So he can always claim ignorance

65. How dare I quote Glenn Greenwald!!!! In a thread about, well, Glenn Greenwald.

68. I've seen you quote people who purport to quote Greenwald, that's it

83. Oh, dear. Was poor Glenn misquoted? So many times??? nt

85. I don't know

90. Which quote??? I can't make you click the links and read. nt

94. All of the quotes point to one source.

99. American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source.

101. Then you should link to that source.

103. Um, I did. Do you not understand how an archive works?

104. You should not be using questionable sources..

105. American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source. How is she not

107. You didn't link to American Lawyer Media or Molly McDonough.

108. You are posting falsely about Mr Ross. He was acquitted by jury trial***.

110. Yeah, I'm a Scientologist..

111. Are you still suggesting that an article from a decade ago was altered to defame Glenn Greenwald?

139. Not to pick a fight but that would sort of be like saying

143. Zzzz

119. This is so sad. What's next, his guidance counselor said he was "surly?"

150. Great post!

13. OMFG!

21. I went to this link provided in the OP...

23. You best look him up on wikipedia, it's a shocker.

35. well, wikipedia is good for geography...

45. Defense counsel could have reasonably believed that his conduct was permissible

60. Yes--when he decided not the read the local rules, I am sure Mr. Greenwald thought

74. As someone else pointed out...

91. Lawyers are rebuked regularly. I really can't get too worked up about this.

95. Okay n/t

127. So, Greenwald's invasion of privacy isn't troubling

22. Here:

24. And that's why

26. American Lawyer Media/April 6, 2000 By Molly McDonough is the source.

36. I already explained that to them.

43. Why do you refer to me as 'them'

48. It's the new PUMA.

52. "Singular they" as the "new PUMA"?

56. Nice racket.

51. I don't know if you're a male or female, thus I use singular they.

54. No, I'm referring to the body of your post

64. I dunno. I've recognized implicit support for Paul in your posts.

77. I'm amazed you're allowed to get away with this kind of stuff

81. I think it was a fair assessment given the information available.

92. Total garbage

97. I'm sorry for presenting that assumption, though.

120. "knocking over liquor stores"?

121. You're right

124. It was salient enough to be mentioned.

100. There is a new game: get your opponent ronpauled out of here.

116. Brilliant!

136. I've got a witch hunt list going...

109. You should read later in the thread--they're using Scientology propaganda to defend

30. This guy

39. Yes--did he change the source article? I couldn't hotlink from Lexis, but

14. Stop trying to silence Greenwald!

82. You never loved him.