Putin Claims 'Gay Nazis' Behind Ukrainian Unrest

[William769]

Source: The Advocate

A U.S.-based Russia scholar contends that Vladimir Putin is looking to galvanize support for Russian rule in Ukraine by linking ultranationalist, neo-Nazi values and support for LGBT equality, which Putin frequently laments as a Western phenomenon.

Matthew Schmidt, an assistant professor of national security and political science at the University of Connecticut who holds an MA in Russian studies, told Raycom News Network that Putin has positioned himself as a defender of "traditional values" in his propaganda war with the West," going so far as to claim that "gay Nazis" were responsible for the initial uprising in Kiev, when pro-Ukrainian demonstrators took to the street to oppose the since-deposed pro-Russian regime.

"The gay Nazis label was simultaneously an attempt to tie the new pro-Europe camp in Kiev to the hated German Third Reich while also taking advantage of the growing acceptance of gay marriage in the West, particularly in the United States," reports Raycom.

Massachusetts-based evangelical preacher and noted homophobe Scott Lively — whose most notorious book claims that the Nazi Party was run by gay men — made the same argument Putin advanced in March, asserting that gay people were responsible for the crisis in Ukraine.



Read more: http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/05/16/putin-claims-gay-nazis-behind-ukrainian-unrest

---

The Russian president takes a page out of a notorious antigay American evangelical's playbook and claims that gay people are the cause of the current conflict in Ukraine.

The power the LGBT community wields. Who would have thought!

[hobbit709]

1. Starting to sound like a Mel Brooks movie.

[geardaddy]

6. Exactly.

I can imagine Harvey Korman dressed as a Nazi dominatrix saying, "We have vays of making you mince!"

[NewJeffCT]

48. LOL

I can't get that image out of my head now.

[lunasun]

69. Gay Nazis? Deserves a showtune or two

Thanks now I will have this tune humming in my head later

[MADem]

76. Springtime for Russia, and Vlaaaa-deee-mir!

Winter for Cry me a Crimea!

Oh, those Hotsy-Totsy Nazis!

[AnnieBW]

78. Vladimir Elizabeth Putin!

He comes from a long line of English Queens.

[Sunlei]

101. Sound crazy like a movie. Unfortunately, in Putins world people are embolden to hurt/kill others

with his bigot words.

[thesquanderer]

2. Ah yes, the gay Nazis. Along with the Jewish nazis and the gypsy nazis, no doubt. (n/t)

[Ash_F]

3. That makes literally no sense. /nt

[MADem]

80. Vladimir hasn't been making sense for quite some time now. nt

[RKP5637]

102. It well could be early dementia! n/t

[MADem]

109. Wouldn't surprise me....

Or maybe he's got some untreated venereal disease that's made him go a bit wobbly!

[dipsydoodle]

4. Odd claim

given that Ukraine is even more extreme than Russia with respect to homophobia.

[uhnope]

10. I call BS. Does Ukraine have new anti-gay laws like Russia's? Do Ukrainian leaders use gays as...

...scapegoats to pursue their ever-increasing dictatorship, like Putin does?

[dipsydoodle]

12. Their intent to pass such a law

preceded Russia making the existing laws in the Federations a Federal law last summer. The subject, in Ukraine, then went into abeyance. It has not however died.

Instead of calling BS I suggest you start searching. Star membership here may help you with that.

[William769]

15. I can live with intent over actuality.

Intent can be dealt with we do it all the time here. Actuality is a harder nut to crack especially since Russia's Doma passed the anti Gay law unanimously. Yep that's right not one nyet vote.

[joshcryer]

20. Wait, it didn't pass?

Could you explain how a country not passing an anti-gay law is worse than a country that did pass an anti-gay law? This is very odd and strange logic I am seeing here.

Thanks.

[former9thward]

55. I doubt this guy cares about the anti-gay law not passing.

It did not seem to help him too much.

Unidentified people beat Svyatoslav Sheremet, head of Gay-Forum of Ukraine, in Kiev, May 20, 2012. Sheremet was attacked after meeting with members of the media to inform them that a scheduled gay parade was cancelled due to threats of violence from neo-Nazis and other hate groups.

[William769]

56. Well with the law in Russia we got this

http://www.buzzfeed.com/clairepires/hunted-a-new-graphic-trailer-about-anti-gay-gangs-in-russia

and this
http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/vice-has-released-a-five-part-documentary-on-being-young-and

and this
http://worldofwonder.net/masha-gessen-life-under-russias-anti-gay-laws/

And this
http://www.voanews.com/content/russian-conservatism-on-gay-issues-provokes-clash-with-west/1743275.html

I could go on but you get the gist of where I'm going.

Which led to the making of this. ****WARNING GRAPHIC****

[joshcryer]

64. Russia state sanctions that.

It's perfectly legal to beat up gays in Russia for spreading gay propaganda.

[former9thward]

82. Actually no, its not.

I'm sure you will link to prove me wrong. This whole Russia vs. Ukraine thing on gays is very silly. Both cultures are very anti-gay. The idea that Ukraine is less anti-gay than Russia is just ridiculous.

[joshcryer]

84. No, but Ukraine is progressing, Russia is regressing.

Despite being the first post-Soviet country to legalise homosexuality, it remains a strongly taboo subject in Ukrainian society. There are almost no publicly gay figures and legislation does not recognise discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Ukrainian civil society groups are trying to press for anti-discrimination legislation at the same time as resisting two draft laws that would marginalise and severely infringe the rights of the LGBT community in addition to having a chilling effect of the freedom of the press.

http://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/06/ukraine-holds-first-gay-pride-parade-amidst-growing-intolerance-and-government-suppression/

The proposed ban on "gay propaganda" was already implemented in many oblasts in Russia (which Dipsy seems to think is a justification for a federal level law).

Ukraine is going in the right direction. I don't see how you can't appreciate the positives of this as opposed to seemingly cheering on the negatives and acting as if nothing is changing.

[former9thward]

86. Ukraine legalized homoseuality in 1991, Russia in 1993.

Not much difference and basically 10 years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized it in the U.S. I think we have to wait and see exactly what direction both countries are going in. Everything has become so politicized with a Russian bad, Ukraine good or visa versa. The reality is very gray for both countries.

[joshcryer]

88. Russia is passing the laws and cracking down.

Dozens of gay propaganda arrests already. Several deportations.

There is a difference. The question is whether association with the Eurozone will compel Ukraine to stop the BS and let people live the way they want. I think that's more likely to happen than an association with Russia which is fomenting this hatred.

[go west young man]

111. Could you provide a link to your deportation claim?

I've seen you mention it a few times but I've seen no proof of it thus far. What are you basing this claim upon?

[joshcryer]

128. Easy.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/russia-says-it-has-deported-four-americans

[go west young man]

131. From your own link:

“One of the detained first came to Russia in 2001 as a Peace Corps volunteer. It is known that in 2002 Peace Corps activity was banned in connection with the carrying out of intelligence-subversive activities.”
“We are aware of reports that four U.S. citizens have been detained on work visa violations,” a State Department official said. “The Department of State takes its obligation to assist U.S. citizens abroad seriously, and stands ready to provide all appropriate consular services to U.S. citizens in need. Due to privacy considerations, we are unable to comment further.”


It states "American values" and is based upon something from 2001. I fail to see anything to do with homosexuality. American values could mean subversion against the government or even possibly spying. You've proven nothing here.

[joshcryer]

135. Here's the one I was thinking of:

http://world.time.com/2013/08/05/russia-faults-in-first-test-of-anti-gay-propaganda-law-but-future-remains-bleak/

And yes he was deported.

[go west young man]

136. From your own link: He was not deported.

When the questions stopped, the four filmmakers were told to appear before a judge the next morning. They faced a fine, prison or deportation. “We were all very tense and the emotions came out,” van der Veen said. “You’re being questioned when you are gay and it’s something you can’t do anything about.” At the court, television cameras showed up to film and Dutch government representatives had become involved. But in the afternoon, they were stunned after being told, “You can all go. We will not take the case into consideration.” After their release and before the court could change its mind, the four quickly flew to St. Petersburg, where they stayed the night, then traveled back to the Netherlands the following day.



Time magazine seems to have placed the "fine, prison or deportation" in this article with no basis of proof.
Once again you have failed to prove the deportation claim Josh. Do you have anything of merit to back up your claim?


And here's something for ya. The US media skipped it during the olympics.

[joshcryer]

138. They were banned for 3 years.

Four Dutch tourists who were arrested for ‘gay propaganda’ in Russia are now banned for three years.

Despite being told they were free to go back to the Netherlands after being fined, the Russian Federal Migration Service has said they are blacklisted from the country.

A governmental spokesman said: ‘The Federal Migration Service has banned the citizens of Holland from entering the country for three years, as the declaration of their purpose of stay in the Russian Federation did not correspond to what they were doing.’

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/first-tourists-arrested-%E2%80%98gay-propaganda%E2%80%99-banned-russia-three-years240713

You are in complete denial. You make it sound like they got in trouble and left on their own accord. It is completely not how it was.

[go west young man]

142. Josh, your spinning...you claimed something which I disproved twice.....

now you say they have been denied visa's for 3 years and tell me I'm in denial. You may want to take a look in the mirror. I called you out and you lost. This is reminiscent of our Crimea debate....which you also lost and still continue to lose.

[joshcryer]

146. So they were banned, but not deported.

[go west young man]

147. Ah some truth.

How's that feel? Better I hope.

[joshcryer]

149. Up is down.

[go west young man]

150. And deportation is not deportation.

[joshcryer]

151. War is peace.

[24601]

106. Kindler, gentler haters who wear New Balance, Nike & NYY caps instead of jackboots and

spike helmets. Also recognized the cheap fanny pack worn over the shoulder like it was an expensive European man-bag. And how considerate for wearing medical masks to protect us from their coughs & sneezes.

Putin is an out of control asshole crime boss & his gangs have a firm grip of the region. Stand by for the other 1000 shoes to drop.

[former9thward]

107. That picture is from Kiev.

Where right wing fascists swarm. Putin does not have any influence there.

[24601]

108. My tribute to Putin was because the overall thread was about him. His diminished incluence in

Ukraine is of his own making. By carving out Crimea, the remaining population has been stripped of it's large bloc of Russian supporters. The remaining voters will never elect anyone leaning towards their East.

I would not, however, underestimate the influence that is brought to bear with spetsnaz (especially those assigned to GRU) as well as conventional tanks & artillery. Turning your back on Putin or judging that he lost a battle should not be the basis for inferring he has given up on the war.

[Cha]

91. Because he wants it to be so. Ukraine has to be worse than good ol Russia to

keep pushing that agenda.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Yeah but Che, you foisted that they were 'even more extreme' which is not really the case

Of course both countries suffer from a mutual history of Soviet and Orthodox anti gay bigotry along with bigotry against all of the same minority groups the Nazis murdered. So yeah, similar in that they are both prisoners of the same propaganda universe. No wonder Ukraine seeks to exist that cultural dynamic.

[newthinking]

71. Actually there is a draft law ready now in Kyiv. The only thing keeping it from passing

is they don't want to risk upsetting the west at the moment. But you can bet that it will pass if things quite down. (Not the one they tabled in April, **another** one was left under consideration)

The government in Kyiv is right wing. It is amazing how people disconnect the dots when they are emotionally engaged to a cause.

Both the Pres and PM are anti-gay and are on record having said so.

So are the Fatherland party, Svoboda, and Right Sector.

[OKNancy]

22. I don't think they are More extreme.. I'd say less

although culturally, it's not as accepted as in the West, it is not illegal.
They also can have pride parades there without getting arrested.

And... if things calm down ( I hope) and they do join the EU... they will have to include protections for the LGBT community.
There aren't the same people in power now.

[dipsydoodle]

24. The last bit

And... if things calm down...................I think you may find they've talked the EU out of. It was those who were in power that had considered it expedient to drop the issue. Its the new lot now negotiating with the EU : not the old lot.

They also can have pride parades there ........that's because they've not got federations with their own anti propaganda laws such as Russia already had prior to those laws becoming a federal law last July. That was the background to the 100% vote, bar one who abstained , in the Russian RADA - the members voted in accord with their own regional laws.

[go west young man]

73. I'm sure they're open to all kinds of fun activities.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141405/alina-polyakova/on-the-march?sp_mid=45902074&sp_rid=ZXZyYXppYUBnbWFpbC5jb20S1

Holding a "fascist victory rally" after they just burned people alive.
Grab a torch!

At the 5:44 mark in the video....the speaker can be clearly heard calling the victims inside "Colorado Beetles"...this is Right Sector language used to dehumanize the victims and imply they must be stamped out...a typical fascist technique to refer to victims as "animals or insects" thereby dehumanizing them. It was used heavily during the Rwanda genocide when referring to victims as "Cockroaches".

2) At the exact 6:10 mark hands are raised with closed fists as they emit a unified shout. Once again indoctrinated fascist behavior.

3) At the 6:14 mark...they once again raise fists and shout a different unified shout (unified shouting implies they have been indoctrinated to learn these shouts which is typical, once again, of fascist groups (nazi's).

Now, please keep in mind that the ceremony is taking place right after the siege and burning of the building....the victims are still inside in various poses of death. This is easily proven by the fact that the pictures I link below are taken the very next day. So it is relatively easy to ascertain that while these neo-nazi's, which we support, are holding their "Victory" rally, that they have no compassion or remorse for the people they just killed....people who include a pregnant woman as shown by the photo evidence I have linked here and a woman who is missing her pants with her legs spread (she was raped).

Warning graphic photos: Pictures are of corpses- http://ucmopuockon.livejournal.com/5885397.html

[CanonRay]

5. Does he not know the Nazis killed thousands of gays?

Apparently he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

[William769]

7. Neither are his supporters.

[Cha]

92. ..

How could they be if they support the shite Putin's trying to get away with?

[awoke_in_2003]

67. He is taking a cue from our right wing...

remember when Limpballs was claiming that the Nazi party was a left wing organization because they had the word "socialist" in their name? Our country doesn't have the corner marketed when it comes to dumb yahoos who will buy this crap.

[Freddie Stubbs]

8. This coming from the guy who is always having his picture taken without a shirt on

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

112. And gets a body wax

Ever know a bald guy who didn't have a lot of body hair? I haven't.

[geardaddy]

9. Oh brother...

[blackspade]

11. Wow, talking about jumping the shark....

More like every shark that has ever existed....

[HuckleB]

13. So now Scott Lively is advising Putin, too?

Wow!

Jason Jones On Scott Lively's Claim That Gays Are More Savage Than Others
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/pv3fgo/gay-reichs

[William769]

18. I had not seen that. Thanks!

[HuckleB]

26. It is a good one!

[jwirr]

14. Putin is as ignorant as the tea party. Doesn't he know how many gay persons dies in concentration

camps?

[awoke_in_2003]

68. Nah, he ain't ignorant...

he just knows how to manipulate his country's brand of tea partiers.

[theHandpuppet]

16. It's the same in any language...

IT'S ALL YOUR GAY FAULT!!!

Floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, drought...

IT'S ALL YOUR GAY FAULT!!!

Political unrest, religious persecution, civil wars...

IT'S ALL YOUR GAY FAULT!!!

In fact, if there's anything at all in life that just sucks...

IT'S ALL YOUR GAY FAULT!!!

[HuckleB]

27. Scott Lively Appears To Be A Key Source In Creating This Fiction

The Daily Show did a great bit on him.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/pv3fgo/gay-reichs

Also, this silly book he and some other guy put out back in the '90s.

The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Swastika

[William769]

31. appearently the wrong university, right State though.

http://www.newhaven.edu/Faculty-Staff-Profiles/Matthew-Schmidt/

So yes, not a student.

[HuckleB]

41. What happened to his posts?

Strange.

[William769]

43. He was deemded to be a troll and removed.

[HuckleB]

47. Welcome to DU.

He probably posted other things on other threads.

[William769]

52. Twin set.

[HuckleB]

59. Oh, goodness.

[William769]

60. To serve and protect.

[HuckleB]

46. Ah, I wondered if that was the deal.

[joshcryer]

19. William this is a long recurring theme.

It's just Putin finally repeating what state media has been saying for months now.

[Cha]

93. Exactly, josh.

[iamthebandfanman]

21. "Those guys are gay nazis!"

says the guy who is a closest gay Nazi ?

takes one to know , I guess

[edbermac]

23. "I hate gay Ukranian Nazis"

[blkmusclmachine]

25. HA HA. Gays cause hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, droughts, fires, tsunamis, cancer,

economic stagnation, unemployment, backaches, nose bleeds, bad movies, too many commercials on the teevee machine, heterosexual divorce, unwed mothers, dinosaurs going extinct, melting ice caps, rude waiters, bad tips, bad hair days, untrue spouses, Faux Nooz, Ford Motor recalls, etc., etc., etc. Everything, apparently, except getting legally married.

[alarimer]

66. I don't know where they find the time, what with ruining all those straight marriage as well.

There's a LOT on the gay agenda, it seems.

[Renew Deal]

28. What about Nazi Werewolves?

Here is the video

[Jack Rabbit]

30. Who knew that Vladimir Vladimirovich is a gay Nazi?

Wow, that's news to me.

[Brickbat]

32. Pretty sure I saw that movie.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. It's funny how the Russia Boosters of DU like to say that to criticize Putin's hate speech is a form

of racism or Russophobia. Same schtick the US religious right pulls, claiming persecution while being raging activists against the basic rights of others.

[William769]

34. I know what thread your talking about!

Some people must really think we are stupid.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. As usual I am deeply amused at how lumberingly bad they are at the whole thing

I am constantly embarrassed for them, their little tantrums, the posturing and the lingo from the late 60's.

[OKNancy]

53. what's up with that anyway?

I just don't get it. Are they sad the USSR collapsed, or do they think the "West" is always wrong?
I do think that the Putinistas don't really care about human rights in this case, it's all about proving their liberal bona fides.

[7962]

70. "yes" to both your opinions. For whatever reason, they miss the cold war I guess

[go west young man]

81. Enjoy this parade.....

[Behind the Aegis]

83. Are you claiming those are the Gay Nazis mentioned in the article?

[go west young man]

110. Are you claiming that I am claiming that?

It is however, my opinion that that parade would most likely not be very open to gay floats which incidentally I am (I'm pro equal rights for everyone). Watch the parade...and you tell me...do you seriously think those people with red and black nazi colored flags and posters of Stephen Bandera would be welcoming of gay people. If you believe that...I have some excellent property on the moon to sell you.

[Behind the Aegis]

119. Are you unaware of the title of the thread and the video you posted?

No need for your moon property, unlike you, I am quite aware of the anti-gay sentiment in Ukraine and the Motherland. I don't need post after post of clips of parades, nor do I need post after post of articles about the hazards and homophobia taking place in Russia to know it is a fact. Do you?

[go west young man]

121. Actually we do have something to agree upon here....

the primary reason for hatred and lack of understanding of homosexual and alternative lifestyles in Russia and Ukraine is economic conditions that lead to breaks downs in education and living conditions. Corrupt oligarchs in both countries are a large part of the problem as they keep the societies from evolving. Where we disagree is in what is being done to sideline that corruption and create conditions that are more conducive to better wages, living and understanding.

I have been attempting to inform DU'ers since the Olympics that the best way to help LGBT people in Russia is by growing the economy and putting people to work while at the same time cutting crime and corruption. When those things take place there will be less ignorant people on the street conducting violent acts against other people. It's a simple solution that works in every country around the world.

The paradox is that there has been a strong effort at DU and in other parts of the US blogosphere to punish Russia and denigrate Russia....thereby actually having the reverse effect LGBT posters hope to achieve. Conditions have now worsened and a weaker economy is going to mean more assholes on the streets conducting ignorant violence instead of getting an education or going to a job. Anyway Ukraine has that same problem.....here's a very sad but poignant example. It's oligarchs once again causing misery.....

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/05/16/311845895/corruption-in-ukraine-robs-hiv-patients-of-crucial-medicine

[Behind the Aegis]

132. Speaking out against homophobia is never a waste of time.

Defending homophobia, making excuses for it ("hey! Look over there!&quot , or dismissing it are not progressive nor liberal values. The situation is Russia is deplorable for gay people; of that, there is NO question. Do not confuse speaking out against homophobia as anything other than what it is.

[go west young man]

133. No matter what the cause....speaking out only matters if

what your speaking makes sense. I prefer focusing on root cause symptoms rather than just screaming there is a problem. You fail to see that.

[Behind the Aegis]

134. Speaking out against homophobia is never a waste of time.

You fail to see that.

[go west young man]

137. Homophobia is the symptom of a larger problem....

Last edited Sun May 18, 2014, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

based upon financial, societal and educational inequality, as is most ignorance and lack of understanding in human rights. Fixing economies will do a lot more for homosexual equality than someone screaming "that one must speak out". I am speaking out, just differently than they way you would prefer. Once again, I am addressing root cause issues.

Speaking out so loudly during the Olympics led to a surge in Putin's approval rating, people blaming LGBT individuals for Russiaphobia and an anti-American backlash globally....not in the USA of course as we are encapsulated from global criticism.....Essentially it did very little for helping LGBT people in Russia, sadly.

Once again, growing the Russian economy and putting people to work and giving people the money to pay for education will fix these ignorance based problems.

[Behind the Aegis]

139. Speaking out against homophobia is never a waste of time.

Homophobia may be a symptom of a lager problem, I have never said anything to contradict such a statement. Your claim you are "speaking out" against homophobia is so patently offensive as to be insulting in the very claim. You haven't spoken out with the exception of milquetoast "oh, that's bad" type of crap. Your posts are almost always like those ones in this thread, "what about so and so?!" or "did you know in the US/Uganda/Saudi Arabia/etc." That is not speaking out against homophobia. The truth is you haven't liked those of us who have spoken out against the Motherland's rank and rampant homophobia, insinuating or flat out calling us bigots (Russiophobes). You and those like you tried to shut us up or shame us and I am sure, to your surprise, it didn't work.

Speaking out so loudly during the Olympics led to a surge in Putin's approval rating,

Prove it!

people blaming LGBT individuals for Russiaphobia

You mean like your posts?

and an anti-American backlash globally

Again, prove it was related to speaking out against homophobia!

Essentially it did very little for helping LGBT people in Russia, sadly.

Yeah, ok.

Your constant use of the word "homosexual" and "lifestyles" demonstrates who aren't anywhere near the level of someone invested in fighting against homophobia. You know what? That's fine. There are several posters here who also aren't "into" fighting homophobia, but the difference between them and you and your ilk? Those other posters don't attack those of us fighting against homophobia, even if the target is their "cause du jour". Even this post to which I am replying demonstrates your lack of concern for homophobia and claiming I (and others) should not be speaking out OUR way, but YOUR way, which really doesn't address OUR concerns or the concerns of our LGBT brothers and sisters.

Just for shits and giggles:

•Search term(s):
• Post author: go west young man
•Forum or Group: LGBT
• Post type: All posts and replies
• Start date: December 2 2011
• End date: May 18 2014
•Sort by: Date

In two and half years, you don't have a single, NOT ONE, post in the LGBT group. While that certainly is not the be all end all of "proof" of interest and concern of GLBT rights/issues and combatting homophobia, it does show a lack of interest. Should I run a full search on your posts in regards to GLBT issues through all of DU? I can do it. However, I am guessing most will intersect with the word "Russia" or "Ukraine." So, don't try to pretend your concern is for combatting homophobia, even in "your" way; it isn't, your concern is in the propaganda war involving Russia and that is fine, just don't try to silence or shame those of us who are sick and fucking tired of homophobia, no matter where it manifests, including in the Motherland!

[hr]

Editing to add: http://euobserver.com/lgbti/124115

Malta has jumped upward in an annual ranking on gay rights, but many of Europe’s micro-states lag behind the norm, while Russia actively promotes homophobia.

-snip-

It also ranks states’ legal benchmarks for LGBTI equality on a range of 0 to 100. Scores are based on whether a country’s policies and legal system make specific references to sexual orientation and gender equality.

-snip-

A critic of gay rights, Russia finds itself at bottom of the scale with six percent, followed closely by Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Monaco.

Other countries like Armenia, Belarus, Georgia, Latvia and Ukraine, are rolling back rights by spreading anti-propaganda laws and adopting rules and policies to restrict them.



RUSSIA: 6 fucking % (and the LOWEST RANKING country!)
UKRAINE: 12% (shitty, but TWICE THAT OF THE MOTHERLAND!)

Perspective!

[William769]

140. Hetrophobia, Russophobia and a couple other choice one's.

See where I'm going with this.

They can't come right out and say what they want because it would show them for who they really are, so they use code words just like... You know the group I'm talking about.

[NuclearDem]

122. You're pro equal rights...

yet you prove constantly you're a diehard apologist for one of the worst homophobes on the planet.

Give me a break.

[uhnope]

116. some of the Old Left were blinded USSR apologists in the 50s 60s 70s on

versus the responsible left that knew the USSR to be a totalitarian slave-state dictatorship.

It involved the horrors of the Vietnam War, the slow progress of Civil Rights etc that made some think that since the US was a moral disaster in those cases, that the Soviets, as the enemy, must be somehow better if not plain good.

Some of the Old Left is still around, some elements in Nation magazine, Project Censored, some elements at KPFA in LA. Sometimes Democracy Now and Thom Hartmann fall into this (and Hartmann gets income from the Kremlin for this show on RT so there's a financial motive too.)

Basically some people confuse appropriate criticism of the US with defense of and apology for Russia.

[uhnope]

114. Could you link to some examples?

I've only seem some of that

[davidpdx]

98. That and saying that Obama is the big bad wolf

Except it's them that are howling at the moon.

[Fred Gilmore]

36. He Forgot

All about our infamous AmurriKKKan Tea Nazis.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. That's another topic, this topic is about Putin's hateful, ignorant, backward bigotry

and it does cover an American who inspires some of that rhetoric, so you could focus on that if you like. If it pains you to see criticism of the hateful and petty Putin.

[Fred Gilmore]

40. Dang Man

Read the entire thread. It's all about Nazis galore..........

I didn't realize that you were the thread police. From now on, I guess that I should check with you before I post. Sorry for upsetting you so.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. It's about Putin calling gay people Nazis.

And about Scott Lively, and American hate monger who is one of Putin's muses of bigotry. It is not about Nazis, it is about libelous accusations of Nazism being hurled at one of the groups the Nazis murdered, by a guy who leads a country with laws similar to the early Nazi anti gay laws.
Sorry if the facts at hand ruffle your agenda.

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. Finally, my lifelong fear of the Gay Nazi threat has been validated.

[theHandpuppet]

42. DUzy!

[NewJeffCT]

49. I'm waiting for Gay Nazi Zombies

before I really get scared.

[theHandpuppet]

50. 100,000; 50,000; 15,000; 60%

100,000: Number of gay men arrested by the Nazis

50,000: Number of gay men officially sentenced

5,000 - 15,000: Number of gay men sent to concentration camps

Exact number unknown, possibly 9,000, or 60%: Number of gay men who died in Nazi concentration camps

Exact number unknown: Number of gay men who were re-arrested after being freed from concentration camps, because they were gay

How dare ANYONE, especially on this forum, spout the outright lies of hatemongering homophobe Scott Lively -- currently being indicted for crimes against humanity -- as some kind of defense for Putin or the persecution of gays in Russia. DON'T EVEN GO THERE.

I'm with ya, William. Keep up the good fight!

[William769]

51. No one is big enough to stop me.

With that said there is plenty of help combating this bullshit.

[AverageJoe90]

54. No surprise that Putin's being a lousy jerkass hypocrite.

It's practically his forte.

[sheshe2]

57. Putin and Lively...

They suit each other to a tee, both disgusting evil homophobic assholes. Their only mission in life is to cause as much pain and suffering as they possibly can.

Lively has traveled to Russia to explain the gay menace. He also been involved in similar efforts in Latvia. (You can read about that and much more in National Journal’s commendable article.) And he has been active for years in Uganda, a place where persecution of gays has taken a turn for the worse — partly, it seems fair to suppose, thanks to his efforts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/03/the-painful-case-of-pastor-scott-lively-homophobe-to-the-world/

I am so embarrassed that Lively is running for Governor of Massachusetts. Not that he has a snowballs chance in hell, however he is an embarrassment to my state.

William

[William769]

58. Putin & Lively sitting in a tree H-A-T-E-F-U-L

First comes Laws, second comes prisons, then comes police state in a fucked up Country!

[sheshe2]

62. May they both be damned to hell.

They have one foot in there anyway. Let them finish there leap of hate.

[HuckleB]

117. Yikes! That idiot spent the early '90s pushing anti-gay ugliness in Oregon.

[uhnope]

61. kr

[KinMd]

63. The SNL sketch writes itself

[Mr. Evil]

65. "Gay Nazis."

I just cannot stop laughing!!!

[7962]

72. And they're probably Jews too. Nothing more dangerous than gay jewish Nazis

But Vladimir will expose them!!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Yup!

[sheshe2]

120. Is it really your Birthday, BtA?

Happy Birthday to you!

[Behind the Aegis]

124. It is. 45!

Thank you!

[sheshe2]

125. LOL! You are still a baby~

That from someone that is not quite old enough to be you mother~

Not to hijack Williams thread...

~however Happy Birthday Behind the Aegis !

Sorry William~

[Behind the Aegis]

75. This doesn't surprise me.

Nor does the pathetic defense I am seeing in this thread or the misdirection.

[Cha]

94. "Nor does the pathetic defense I am seeing in this thread or the misdirection"..

Nope, it's predictable.. the twisting and turning to protect the greedy monster putin at all costs.

[dgauss]

77. I have some right wing relatives who have recently declared admiration for Putin.

"I kind of like Putin, he has spunk," they say. I'm sure this comes from the depiction by some right wing "pundits" of Putin as a decisive man of action, a real leader who knows what he wants and goes for it, as a way of denigrating Obama as a weak leader by contrast.

Strange to see these patriots exalting a former Soviet KGB man but I guess trashing Obama trumps that.

I think the idea of Putin in defiance of "gay Nazis" will work just fine for them in a lot of ways.

[Cha]

95. They might like this.. or not..

Vladimir Putin Has Been Outplayed by Barack Obama

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10024965652

[politicat]

79. Oh, Vladdie...

Take it from River Song.

[Fearless]

85. Undoubtedly in conjunction with the socialist-fascists too.

[DeSwiss]

87. So someone is claiming that Putin said something stupid.......

...is the same as Putin actually saying it? Because I've searched ''the Google'' and the only thing I can find is this Schmidt guy making this claim and no one anywhere else is stating that this is a quote that they themselves heard issuing forth from Putin's mouth.

He's even gone so far as labeling Kiev protesters who confronted the former pro-Russian regime in Ukraine "gay Nazis," says Matthew Schmidt, an assistant professor of national security and political science at the University of New Haven in Connecticut.

- So what gives? Shouldn't that headline read: ''Scholar claims that Putin claims that Gay-Nazis are behind Ukraine unrest?'' or something like that?


This appears to be an opinion piece best suited for General Discussion.....

[dgauss]

89. Good point. I searched too and everything led back to the quote you referenced.

If there is a Putin quote or some other official statement I would like to see it. Is this ridiculous gay Nazi idea a Russian PR tactic or one of our own? The question is not about the state of gay rights in either country but about whose propaganda this is.

[DeSwiss]

90. It's not that I put anything past any pol......

...but this country has too many flaws of its own for us to go around pointing fingers.

- At anyone.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. Your mistake is attempting to define an international community along your petty nationalist

lines. LGBT community is an international family, something the fascist bigot uber nationalists simply can't fathom. This is not about you and your flaws as a Straight American. It is about your Straight Russian counterpart Putin, and his filthy hate language. You seem to be endorsing his hate and his anti gay bigotry, by the way. Very loudly. Mark Twain would puke on your shoes.

[Cha]

96. Mahalo for this William.. I get so disgusted with

those on this board who try to defend Putin at all cost when clearly he's a greedy monster. Smearing Gay People with his vileness to further his end to stomp on Countries that don't belong to him.

However, there have been some more recent developments on our end..

Vladimir Putin Has Been Outplayed by Barack Obama

Max Fisher notes this morning that although President Obama got a lot of flak for his restrained response to Russia's aggression in Ukraine, his approach of giving Vladimir Putin enough rope to hang himself has turned out to be a lot cannier than his critics expected:

This has been so effective, and has apparently taken Putin by such surprise, that after weeks of looking like he could roll into eastern Ukraine unchallenged, he's backing down all on his own. Official Russian rhetoric, after weeks of not-so-subtle threats of invading eastern Ukraine, is backing down. Putin suddenly looks like he will support Ukraine's upcoming presidential election, rather than oppose it, although it will likely install a pro-European president. European and American negotiators say the tone in meetings has eased from slinging accusations to working toward a peaceful resolution.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/05/vladimir-putin-has-been-outplayed-barack-obama

josh crier http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10024965652


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TOD

[Burma Jones]

99. Gay Nazi Uprising is a good band name

[Sunlei]

100. Putin claims? or did that RW USA anti-gay group that had meetings in Russia last year say that hate

first.?
Did they stir Putins pot of ignorance and natural soviet era bigotry?

[davidpdx]

103. They are a nasty bunch

Check out the part in this video where a pro-Russian protester has a few choice words about Obama:

&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=6

Racist much?

[Turbineguy]

104. At least it's not the oriental negroes!

[RKP5637]

105. Same Old Shit, just different times, different names. Putin is using tactics of the past, seek out

a group and persecute them, scapegoat them to shield your true intentions.

[Enrique]

113. incredibly thin story

a guy with an M.A. in Russian Studies tells some news organization I never heard of, that Putin "claimed" something. When did Putin supposedly make this claim? There is no indication.

There is no question about Putin's oppression of gays. Regarding this particular development, however, I smell a total rat.

[go west young man]

115. Interesting that this newest propaganda doesn't actually provide proof

of Putin saying anything. It does provide an opinion of Mathew Schmidt.....link here: http://www.newhaven.edu/lee-college/national-security-experts/ But it doesn't provide proof of his assertion. I scoured the internet on both the English and Russian side and could find no evidence to back up this claim. Russian media did have an article related to a suspect in the Odessa massacre.....but once again I could find no proof of 'Professor' Schmidt's convoluted assertion. He seems to simply connect a lot of the characteristic of the Ukraine crisis with the current anti-gay atmosphere in Russia. That atmosphere does exist (sadly) and is growing more strongly (unfortunately). Here's a link to who is pushing it the most in Russia..

He is in the opposition party to Putin by the way.

A couple of things about 'Professor" Schmidt...he is working for our NSA.....that speaks volumes and obviously puts his claim in a dubious light. I believe the US government wants you all fired up about the 'bogeyman' and properly distracted so they can keep the focus on Putin instead of on what they have done in Ukraine. Your being played once again. If you go to Google and do a simple search on this issue every site that covers it has this one professor making this dubious claim....not a single one has a stated quote from Putin....I'm not saying it's not possible...just that it seems another form of propaganda. One that takes advantage of the gay community in this case.

Notice how since the massacres and referendum the US media has quieted down on their rhetoric? Notice their still constant desire to frame this as about Putin and Russia and keep the public eye off what they have been doing with neo-nazi's who massacred innocent people?

A very important news story that the entire Western media establishment neglected to report on in the past few days is ....that the Donetsk "Vostok" battalion (their newest most elite fighters) captured an entire unit of Kiev soldiers (real soldiers this time, not Right sector hooligans) and took over their base. Here's the interesting part though. The soldiers gave up, once agin, without a fight. They defected to the other side and handed over 200 AK-47's, 2 BTR-80s and 1 BMP and several military trucks.

http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1192919

These were real soldiers who joined the people of East Ukraine. Once again it doesn't fit the Western narrative to report this as it shows that the Kiev true military are not pro coup-junta. They are actually sensible people who are saying we will help you fight against fascists.
This must come as a blow for Washington as they are having to wake up to the reality that they will not be able to get their war on. It's not working. The true soldiers don't want the fight. That's why Right Sector was in Mariupol and Odessa and not regular troops. Regular troops won't do the indiscriminate killing. If anything the regular soldiers hate the Right Sector guys. Washington, due to it's lack of understanding of the historical cultural aspects of the region has lost the plot and can't understand why the won't fight.

In the meantime they definitely don't want to have the nation talking about neo-nazi's and the burning of 43 innocent people alive....that the Kiev media covered up.....the very same day we gave that media a few million dollars. So instead we have this gay nazi narrative and the small story of an oligarch and some steel workers.

Can't you folks see your being played? Your useful to the overall cause by our currently nefarious acting government. They need you angry so they can keep that ball in the air.....that destabilization going......Russia bad......Putin bad. Personally I'd like to see the ball drop and the curtain pulled back. It's relatively obvious to the most basic minded simpleton what's going on.

Once again if someone can provide an actual quote from Putin on what this 'professor' professes I would love to see it....till then...consider me unconvinced that this is nothing more than US blatant propaganda. It reminds me of how the government conducted a false narrative in the movie "V for Vendetta".

[DeSwiss]

123. Not only that.....

...it also cheapens the reputation of those websites and news organization who've allowed themselves to be used by the NSA.

- Of course one never knows if its cooperation or coercion when dealing with the NSA.

[jamzrockz]

141. This supposed quote

has circled the earth 100x now before the real quote has even woken up from sleep. Its a shame that people will believe stuff without any evidence and run with it.

[fujiyama]

118. Gay Nazis...Are these like the commie-Nazis?

You know, like Obama? That's what tea baggers always claim.

http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ccManager/clips/simpsonss09e23_mcbaincommienazis.mp4/view

[sheshe2]

126. Kick!

[mississippi62]

127. Fighting gay Nazis in the U.S.

Would not surprise me if Family Research Council has a hand in this. I follow their Washington operations on twitter @FRCdc . They have posted several tweets in support of Putin and condemning pro-Kiev factions.

The Family Research Council was instrumental in crafting anti-gay laws in Uganda and RFRA legislation in the U.S. Tony Perkins, president of the FRC, was invited to be part of very small group who attended the signing of SB2681 in Mississippi. Uganda was only a test site for institutionalized discrimination. Mississippi served as a willing guinea pig for U.S. action. Although a similar bill failed in AZ, FRC learned their lesson and now know how to target states that are vulnerable to this type of propaganda. FRC is like a Hydra - when you cut off one avenue of political influence, they grow other connections and ultimately become stronger.

Although the Koch brothers have attracted a lot of attention as the "bad guys" of GOP dark money, the real threat comes from FRC. They actively craft legislation. And they are motivated not by greed but by ideology. The FRC makes no secret of their intent to "Christianize" the U.S. political system. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[Jamastiene]

129. Wow, they think we are behind everything they don't like.

Meanwhile, they go after us tooth and nail just to make sure we have no rights. Such transparent tactics, but somehow they still seem to be able to fool some people. Some. The rest of us see right through them.

[mississippi62]

130. the solution

(in the U.S.) is to VOTE. Apathy is killing us as a nation. Hate groups like FRC know that and use it to their advantage.

[another_liberal]

143. Hearsay connection to President Putin . . .

Your source is dealing almost exclusively in supposition and innuendo when he suggests the Russian President is directing a campaign of this sort, to link Western Imperialism in Ukraine to influence from the LGBT community.

It is an intriguing theory, perhaps, but not much more.

[SidDithers]

144. Leave Putin alone!!...

Sid

[another_liberal]

145. Leave him anyway you want . . .

After all, he's your obsession.

[msanthrope]

148. It's amazing, isn't it??? nt