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grumpyduck

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Member since: Sat Dec 16, 2017, 12:51 PM
Number of posts: 671

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$5.7 billion is only the down payment for the wall

I wrote about this yesterday, but the post got buried in the avalanche of new OPs, so I'll post it again. I believe it's an important fact, and one that the press seems to be ignoring in their focus on "the wall vs the shutdown." I wrote my three members of congress about it, but don't expect to get back anything besides a form letter.

From Fortune magazine last year:

Estimates range from as low as $8 billion to as much as $67 billion or more, depending on whom you ask and the number of miles of wall that get built. Based on Trump’s 2017 budget request for $2.6 billion to plan, design and build 75 miles of wall, Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill’s office estimated the per-mile cost would be about $37 million, or nearly $67 billion for the entire 2,000-mile border. Congressional Republicans have said they expect a wall to cost from $12 billion to $15 billion, based on the cost to rebuild existing border fencing covering a third of that distance. These projections, however, don’t include the cost of land acquisition.


http://fortune.com/2018/01/19/donald-trump-border-wall/

Yes, I know... the $67 billion figure may not be dead-on-the-button accurate, and the estimate was prepared by a Democrat, so therefore it's BS, and it was reported in a leftist magazine, so it's fake news, and all that. But for anyone who bothers thinking a little bit, the message will be loud and clear: that wall will cost a hell of a lot more than the $5.7 billion we keep hearing about.

And, sadly, once a new administration takes over and realizes that it's not working, and that costs continue to skyrocket, and decides to stop the project, all that taxpayer money will have gone down the drain and people and drugs will continue to come in illegally.

Please -- please -- bring this up to your own representatives and your local media. It needs to be up there with all the other stuff they keep repeating.

My letter to my MoCs re: the wall and its cost

Aargh. For some reason I decided to spend my time writing my MoCs instead of doing something more pleasant. Here's what I just sent my three MoCs. Feel free to copy and re-send if you want.

And yes, I did include a salutation.


Now that the “wall vs. shutdown” battle has become even more interesting, I think it’s time that the American public be made aware of the realities. The figure the White House keeps repeating, and that we keep seeing in the mainstream media, is $5.7 billion. But, as I’m sure you know, that’s not the price: that’s just a down payment. A piece in Fortune magazine, from January 2018, includes the following:

“Estimates range from as low as $8 billion to as much as $67 billion or more, depending on whom you ask and the number of miles of wall that get built. Based on Trump’s 2017 budget request for $2.6 billion to plan, design and build 75 miles of wall, Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill’s office estimated the per-mile cost would be about $37 million, or nearly $67 billion for the entire 2,000-mile border. Congressional Republicans have said they expect a wall to cost from $12 billion to $15 billion, based on the cost to rebuild existing border fencing covering a third of that distance. These projections, however, don’t include the cost of land acquisition.”

Once more, history gives us a clue as to reality: This is not much different than President Bush’s insistence that the Iraq war would cost “so much,” where it actually cost “a heckuva lot more.”

Since the mainstream media has apparently chosen, for some reason, to keep repeating the $5.7 billion figure, I believe Congressional Democrats should take the initiative to bring out the truth about the estimated cost of that wall. Maybe it’ll help some non-Democrats understand that things aren’t always what they seem, and hopefully reconsider their support of this administration.

Therefore, I urge you and your fellow Members of Congress to get out there and tell it like it is: $5.7 billion is a down payment, and, once the Oval Office has a new occupant and Congress decides to stop the project, that money will have been wasted.

Best regards, and keep up the good work.

Interesting article on the wall from a construction journal

Just now looking for information on the steel specs for the wall, and ran across this article in Equipment World, a journal for the construction industry. It's from last year, but an interesting take on their viewpoint. The short article ends with:

Washington D.C. can’t make the sensible choice when there is money on the table. But for those of you in the private sector who are eager to get a piece of this wall building deal, think about the implications. What does it say about your character if you are willing to take vast amounts of taxpayer money to build something bound to fail; a wall predicated on America’s addiction to illegal drugs and cheap labor and our hypocritical inability to enforce our own laws?

And 10 or 20 years from now, are you going to take your grandkids out in the desert to see this half-built, broken down and abandoned wall and proudly say: “See kids, I helped build that.”


https://www.equipmentworld.com/can-trumps-wall-be-built-will-it-be-effective-should-you-bid-no-no-and-no-heres-why/

Another piece, in Fortune, says partly:

Estimates range from as low as $8 billion to as much as $67 billion or more, depending on whom you ask and the number of miles of wall that get built. Based on Trump’s 2017 budget request for $2.6 billion to plan, design and build 75 miles of wall, Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill’s office estimated the per-mile cost would be about $37 million, or nearly $67 billion for the entire 2,000-mile border. Congressional Republicans have said they expect a wall to cost from $12 billion to $15 billion, based on the cost to rebuild existing border fencing covering a third of that distance. These projections, however, don’t include the cost of land acquisition.


http://fortune.com/2018/01/19/donald-trump-border-wall/

OK, for us lingo-challenged folks: what does nt mean?

I see it on posts all the time. Thx.

So let me get this straight: T directed Cohen to lie to Congress?

And Cohen actually did it?

If that is correct (and AFAIK, it hasn't been proven yet but I may be incorrect):

Cohen's a lawyer. How blankety-blank dumb is that?

Trump and Cohen: Right-on-the-button line from Godfather II

During the Congressional hearing, one of Michael Corleone's thugs is being interviewed. He's asked if Michael ever gave him an order to kill someone:

Senator Pat Geary: Would you expand on your response? I'm interested to know, was there always a buffer involved?

Willie Cicci: A what?

Geary: A buffer. Someone in between you and your possible superiors who passed on to you the actual order to kill someone.

Cicci: Oh yeah, a buffer. The family had a lot of buffers!


I don't want to start another tin-hat conspiracy theory, but

the more I see stuff in the news, and the more I think about it, the more I believe there's something going on behind the scenes with Congressional Republicans, and especially with a few top ones. They appear to be holding on due to fear of something: losing their seats, looking bad, blackmail, breaking agreements, fear for their lives, or whatever. And then there are Hannity et al who keep pushing them to hang in there, although I write these folks off as just entertainers who make millions by inciting people to anger. Something isn't right, and just saying they're all assholes is not an answer. Sorry, but it's not.

I would love to see somebody look into this, but I don't have a clue who I would suggest.

AOC: two million Twitter followers and growing

I'm not on Twitter (heck, I'm not on any social media), but I do believe this number will grow by leaps and bounds. Her recent clips looking for Mitch, showing us a member of Congress inside the Capitol, have gone viral even outside of Twitter. That's as close as you can get to a government official talking directly to the American people without filtering by the media.

Criticize her for it? Hey, POTUS legitimized using Twitter a couple of years ago, so it must be okay.

So, are the shutdown and the wall just a distraction

from T's wanting to pull out of NATO? I don't watch Rachel (or any of them), but just took a peek at a clip and it seems senior officials are raising a red flag.

Stage magicians call this sort of thing "misdirection." I wonder if T and his team have been taking lessons in magic.

My letter to Sen. Harris re: Barr's comment about maybe not revealing the report

His comment about "maybe" not making the report available to the public really got under my skin. Here's my letter to Harris et al regarding this. Feel free to copy and send to your own MoCs.

Dear Senator Harris,

You may or may not be aware of this, but you and a few other Democratic MoCs have been getting rave reviews at Democratic Underground (www.democraticunderground.com), a chat room for Democrats who care deeply about what’s going on in our country. There’s a lot of support there for you.

One of the topics that just came up was Bill Barr’s comment that he might consider not making Bob Mueller’s full report open to the public. In my opinion, and that of many others, this would be a disgrace and a slap in the face to the American public, who have a right to know if the person holding the office of President of the United States colluded with a foreign power to attain that office. And it would deal a serious blow to the trust and faith we the people have – and want to have – in our government and on the people we elected to represent us.

Personally, I don’t care what the investigation reveals, and I also believe that many others don’t either. If he colluded with Russia, it’s a matter for Congress and for the courts. If he didn’t, then he didn’t. And if it’s somewhere in the middle, then who knows. But we’re paying for this investigation, and we’re sick and tired of hearing about it for two years, of reading about it, and of listening to those highly-paid “TV pundits,” (i.e., entertainers) who are making millions by inciting the American public to anger for the sake of TV ratings. I, and many others, want to get this over with. And keeping the report secret won’t help dissipate the anger that’s palpable all over the country: it’ll just increase it.

On the other hand, we all know it won’t be concealed forever anyway. It can’t be, not in this day and age. At some point, someone with the integrity and conscience of a Daniel Ellsberg will come forward, and someone with the integrity and conscience of a Bob Woodward or a Carl Bernstein will publish it. Using the phrase “national security” to keep the report secret is baloney and we all know it. If names need to be redacted to protect our intelligence assets, then fine, redact them. Nobody will care. But the gist of the report -- whether the person holding the office of President of the United States colluded with a foreign power -- needs to be revealed to the American public. We have a right to know that.

I strongly urge you to take all necessary steps to insure that this report is made available to the public. It’ll make some people happy and some others angry, but we’re already there anyway. We want this to go away.

Keep up the good work; we really appreciate it.

Best regards,

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