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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:52 PM
Original message
Can Some Photoshop Expert Explain To Me What This Means?
One of my Facebook friends just posted a couple of pictures along with long explanations of what he did to the image. I'm assuming that he's trying to say that the Obama birth certificate is a forgery, but I have no familiarity with Photoshop at all, so I can't really decipher WHAT he's saying.

Here is the first photo he provides (and his actual text explanation below):



Here's his text caption of that photo: "Obama long form birth certificate has been digitally modified - is it a fake? I don't know, but it is NOT just a plain old scanned pdf file I downloaded from the White House website... the image shows the clipping masks when the pdf is opened in Adobe Illustrator."

Here is the second photo:



Here's his text caption for this photo: "In this image i've dbl clicked on the main section of the content, which highlights some parts of it - presumably parts that have been "adjusted". Also, I selected and moved the registrar stamp so you could see the green patterned background that was clipped from behind it. I'm no forgery expert, but if this was an intentional forgery, it was done very poorly."


What does this all mean, in English? I don't speak Photoshop.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. It means that your friend believes he sees graphic "elements" in what should be...
..an entirely homogenous image. Homogenous because it was scanned in- i.e. not created in a graphics processing program.

PB
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. It means he's an idiot.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is actually in illustrator and not photoshop. And your friend is an idiot (no offense)
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 12:56 PM by no limit
Adobe will optimize scanned images and you will get the boxes he/she is seeing in illustrator. It is part of the OCR process when you scan something in to a PDF.

Hope this helps.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. But most importantly, that background is just for show. White House correspondants were...
...handed the "real" copies, which were just white on black.

Again, the GREEN background is just for show and does NOT show up on the documents distributed by the White House this morning.

PB
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:56 PM
Original message
The only thing weird-looking about it...
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 12:58 PM by Deep13
..is the fact that is was printed on that copy-evident paper. Someone took the original certificate which is in a book of records and pressed it on the glass of a xerox machine. That machine was loaded with the odd-looking paper. Then that person certified the copy as an official duplicate.

Whoever is claiming it is forgery is simply full of shit.

EDIT: Now I'm reading that the documents shown at the press conference were not printed on the copy-evident paper and that it is a computer-generated background, presumably to prevent people from making copies off the computer.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. exactly. But facts will never satisfy a determined hater.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tell your friend he/she is a fucking idiot
after that-

Tell him/her, to get a life

Then, repeat first statement that they are a fucking idiot
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. When documents with text are scanned for viewing on PCs, you get those sort of boxes
I've done it more than a few times when I've had to transfer documents to my computer and that's what happens.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. The scanner software detects where there is or isn't an image
for automatic cropping, and puts these boxes around what it finds and gives you the option of only saving that part of the image. My very common HP scanner does this with every document I scan.

Grasping at straws.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. It means the guy who posted that is a fucking idiot.
I've been using PS since version 1. I could show you a photo of your grandma riding a dinosaur with Jesus and Desmond Tutu and it would look completely believable. There would be no reason to do clipping masks, and even more to the point, there is no way a PDF file would have that Photoshop data embedded in it unless the original user intended for it to be editable in Photoshop...which would make him/her one very stupid forger.

From what I can see in these images, the green pattern matches perfectly. It's only AFTER the guy cuts and pastes the type that it doesn't line up...because he's full of shit.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Exactly!!!
I'm so tired of the stupidity surrounding Obama's birth certificate. My neighbors are convinced he's an infiltrator and it's impossible to reason with them. Will this nightmare ever end?
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MercuryRepeater Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. Your friend is a Teabaggin' Moron. Obama didn't provide a PDF.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. All I can say is, how pathetic. Obama has really made the baggers crazier than
they were to begin with. This is really laughable -- & you're taking this seriously enough to decipher it?

Send it to Donald Trump's "investigator". The one that didn't show up in Hawaii.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Maybe that's the point.
Of course, the birthers are just going to revise their conspiracy theories and resume their howling.

And they'll come out looking even more fucking batshit crazy, which is desirable from my view - Obama comes out looking like the adult in the room, the birthers come out looking like they need thorazine.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. I certainly agree with the give-them-enough-rope strategy. But I made it clear to my
gullible rightwinger contacts years ago that I won't tolerate their ignorant forwards. If I did Facebook & got messages like the OP's, I'd "unfriend" them for spamming my page. It's impossible to have a constructive debate when those idiots have deep-seated hatred. They're forever stuck in tunnel-vision, so what's the point?

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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Because they make the make the whole party look bad and turn off independents.
The crazier, stupider, and louder the birthers are about this in the face of all the evidence that proves them wrong, the better.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. How does it feel to get your ass handed to you?
This is a no bullshit site. :hi:
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. It means
he needs to check both his closet and under the bed for boogiemen.
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Phoenix63 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. It means that your "friend" is clueless
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM by Phoenix63
and that no matter what evidence there is that "black man" is not a legitimate President.

Oh and that little blurb at the end where he moves the "registrar stamp"? Well when you make a copy of a document the copy machine(whether it's a scanner, or a copy machine) does not see the "green background" behind the stamp therefore when you move the stamp there will be no green background because IT'S A FUCKING COPY!

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luvspeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. These are both lies...
I just opened the file in photoshop, just like it said. There were NO clipping masks. And if the first part is false, so is the second part.
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nykym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. What this does show
is your friend (I use the term loosely) is perpetrating another fraud. I have just opened the file from the WH in Photoshop, Illustrator and adobe acrobat. There are no clipping masks as he states. He would have had to add these alleged mask in Adobe Acrobat as fields from the forms tab. I would not buy anything from this friend.
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Bravo Zulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. It means you are a birfer!
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. It means he can't let go of the myth he bought into
If the image was a pdf it means an adobe product (photoshop, illustrator, other) was used to scan the image in and it was saved out as a .pdf. Any image I scan into my computer is done by:

1. opening photoshop
2. selecting import and choosing the scanner
3. scanning image in
4. saving image in any number of formats including .jpg, .tiff, or .pdf

If one wanted the image to be viewable by most viewers one would use either a .pdf file or .jpg

That doesn't mean it is a forgery but really did you expect the lunatics who believe the president isn't a citizen or legitimately our president to suddenly drop their heavily invested idiocy and let the subject rest? My mother and brother are teabagging birthers. They still adamantly believe the birth certificate is a fake and that it is all part of an elaborate hoax perpetrated on the American people to usher in socialism and subvert the constitution. And they are idiots. Complete idiots. (heavily armed idiots I may add) Every time they spew this bit of idiocy I remember why I never visit them and subject my children to their lunacy. Just hide this persons posts and give yourself some peace of mind. I got sucked into one of my brothers facebook birther rants over the weekend and it was exhausting.

I recommend some nice dark chocolate, hugs and distancing yourself from the crazy. HOpe this helps!

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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. It means like other birthes he'd rather see an image of a Negro hanging from a tree.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. A quick primer on "Adobe."
Adobe is a company, not a product. Adobe sells software products such as Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash, After Effects, etc. These are all various design/media production products. Another product they sell is something called Acrobat.

Most of you have something called Adobe Reader on your PC or Mac. Reader is a "light" version of Acrobat. Acrobat is the program used for creating PDF files that can be edited across work groups; for making forms which can be filled out online; for combining several other PDF files into one multi-page file. Adobe Reader, otoh, only READS the PDF files created by other software. For instance, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc, can all save files as PDFs. However, unless specifically marked as being editable within the parent application which created them, the saved PDFs are read-only documents (or fill-in forms).

I point this out only to further demonstrate the fraud the OP's friend is trying to perpetrate. It is ridiculous to assume the White House lawyer would have flown to Hawaii with his own scanner and a compatible Photoshop plug-in, and then saved the scanned document as an editable Photoshop PDF before posting it online. Even if it had been "retouched" after the fact, a read-only PDF (which is all that the vast majority of users would have access to) would not have clipping masks evident. The whole thing is 100% ridiculous.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. IT MEENZ IT NOTT TEH REEL BARF CARTIPRIKAT!!11!!!!
TEH REEEL BARF CARTIFRIKAT SHOW HEEZ A SEEKRIT MIOOSLAM!!! THIS IS HUGH!!!!11111111111111
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Here's His Response To Me
After passing along the information you guys provided (which was great, by the way--I love having my own personal counter-talking points team at the ready), here was how he responded:

"If there is a single thing I've stated that is not accurate - please point it out specifically."

That's it. He's hiding behind plausible deniability. "I'm not SAYING it's a forgery, I'm just saying there are some things I noticed that MIGHT lead SOMEONE to believe it's a forgery." Weenie.
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. I don't think your friend is an idiot. I applaud curiosity in whatever form it takes.
I don't know enough about Photoshop and Illustrator, so I'll take the words of those on the thread that do.

But simply being curious enough to analyze an image is not idiotic, at all.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Would you applaud the curiosity of someone that knows nothing about physics questioning gravity?
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. As I said, I always applaud curiosity. It saddens me when I see the lack of it.
I'm not being snarky at all, I'm just saying that it's a value of mine.

The friend might actually learn something now that he has started the process, that's all. It's good.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I understand what you are saying and generally agree with the principle you advocate
but there are limits. Like I said, there are people that know nothing about physics or basic science that deny gravtiy. Sometimes you have to call these people what they are, idiots.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. It's idiotic if the motivation is this unending, inane, racist birfer bullshit.
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 01:42 PM by Warren DeMontague
We have real problems as a country, and this is the most important thing these cheetoh-stained waterheads can spend their time on?
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I still disagree. I spent considerable time analyzing bin Laden images
back in the day when the CT circulated about multiples. I satisfied myself by analyzing the images myself. It was time well spent, because now whenever I hear anyone talk about it, I have firsthand experience (and know that there was only one bin Laden).
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm not qualified to say anything technical involving e-imaging, but I KNOW THIS
the entire world is going to know how many idiots live in the U.S. AND HOW IGNORANTLY STUBBORN THEY ARE. BORN OUT OF HATE or GROOMED TO HATE. Take your pick. We know for sure that they are READY TO HATE. Beware - this is a land partly filled by HATERS because of their inferiority makes them believe they are superior.

SHAME. They want to turn back the clock with every thought and action. Layered on over this is that they come up with money to donate and support idiot legislators and they pay to listen and watch the media who feeds and sustains the hate.

THE HATE CLUB - takes in and includes more than the Tea Party hate baggers.

It's never going to end until they acknowledge their hate and bigotry.

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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. I hate to break this to you, but the world knew that when Bush was elected a second time
I hear that from non-Americans all the time.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. Wasn't the BC good enough for you either?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. fuck him and all his 'concerns'
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ChoppinBroccoli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. His Follow-Up Response
"If the official certified the copy on the green paper as an official duplicate - what were the WH correspondents given? An uncertified copy or a different document all together? Or maybe the document was certified on white paper, copied, distributed to the WH press corp then copied onto the green stuff and uploaded to the WH website? Are they incompetent or just trying to create questions. I'm no birther or kook, but this whole deal is still fishy."
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Ask him why he is changing the subject. He originally said the boxes he is seeing imply manipulation
yet there is no manipulation, Adobe Acrobat does this automatically when you scan a document.

This is what I hate about people that advocate conspiracy theories. They make one claim, you debunk that claim, and they move on to another claim. It's a never ending circle.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. "I'm no birther or kook, but this whole deal is still fishy." Tell your friend to
keep telling himself that.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. hilarious
If this is document scan is a "forgery" then there is no meaning of the word anymore.

But there are people dumb enough to buy it.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
40. Freepers are going nutso over this
n/t
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zappaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. The real fishy part is why is this in English?
And not Hawaiian?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. +1 nt
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. So how many more times were you guys planning to kick it?
I agree that it's ridiculous, btw.
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elana i am Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. unfortunately it means your friend is not wrong
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 04:30 PM by elana i am
i just opened the pdf file from the white house site in illustrator myself, and it turns out he's right. what he is seeing isn't just clipping paths though, but also bounding boxes (both demonstrated by the blue lines in his example you've linked) from placed images that have had clipping masks applied to them.

it means that the green patterned background is a seperate image placed into the illustrator file. and not only that's but it looks like the original copy of the certificate may have been on that paper and they whited it out. it also means that each of those little sections surrounded by a blue bounding box in your top example is also a separate transparent bitmap image (presumably of what was whited out on the green paper) placed in the illustrator file (except that empty bounding box on the lower left). i'm literally sitting here moving all the pieces of this pdf file around. unfortunately your friend is not lying and he does know what he's talking about.

i know this is real, because it came directly from the white house website, but this was a PISS POOR way of presenting this document to the public. and i mean PISS POOR because they couldn't hardly have done it in a way that made it look more doctored. i could post an image of all the pieces moved around, but i'd rather not unless you need to see it to believe it.

obama has got some *real geniuses* working for him... x(:wtf: :spank: :grr:x(:wtf: :spank: :grr:x(:wtf: :spank: :grr:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. "PISS POOR way of presenting this document to the public"
Yup.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
46. it means your friend isn't intelligent
Edited on Wed Apr-27-11 04:11 PM by fascisthunter
also, that's Illustrator not Photoshop, but both software packages are made by the same company, Adobe.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
47. It means shit. that's what it means
Who even really gives a fuck. I don't care if he was born on the goddamned moon. So everyone can just shut the holy fuck up about it.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
50. I means your friend is a loser that has all the time in the world to waste
on apparently nothing...find a new friend.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. Just another racist.
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