Moody's is actually warning that the package as proposed will put

[nadinbrzezinski]

our trading rating at risk.

Now I know Eddie probably does not get it, but this is yet another trend towards the end of EMPIRE. This is actually about... reserve currency.

This will not be pretty at all.

[Bobbieo]

1. None of it is pretty anymore.

[Angry Dragon]

2. Long live the kings

[gateley]

3. nad, without getting too technical (read: over gateley's head) is this because of

the amount that will be added to the deficit?

I've been swinging back and forth on this but I ultimately feel that it will do more harm than good. That everybody will be hurt as a result of plunging deeper into debt - those who need the help now and everybody else.

Saw Adam Smith on MSNBC this morning (he's another great Congressman from The Great State of Washington :7) and he said that we won't even begin to be able to address the deficit until two years, but even then, he foresees going through this cluster fuck again then when it's up for a vote.

It's all so depressing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yes, we are at the head

there are some good things in this package. Don't get me wrong, there are. But there are more negatives in it.

The Empire is on it's way down. And while many here celebrate this because shit we will no longer be the empire... in reality it is not going to be pretty.

ALL empires have anywhere from one to two generations of economic malaise as well as people feeling like they are not good anymore. It is also a hit as NOT being a reserve currency leads to bad, really bad, economic times.

Yes, being the EMPIRE has some benefits that people will not understand until they go away.

But this package is pure lunacy. I heard from somebody in DC a while ago something that was striking. Once inside the beltway their brains enter an alternate way of thinking that is distant, best case, from those outdo of it. It is a twilight zone moment. I guess that could be a good premise for fiction, but this will not be pretty for real.

[gateley]

12. I totally can see where they lose touch with reality, that their entire existence

is surreal. Meanwhile, here we are the recipients of their fantasy life doings.

There are a very few who have been able to maintain their sense of self, who they really are.

[Mike 03]

27. Thank you for just putting it on the line like this. This has been coming for years, and I'm just

grateful that there are people like you willing to confirm it.

[taught_me_patience]

11. It's because of the deficit

Either we have austerity measures in the future (not likely) or inflate our currency to pay for the deficit (likely). Of course, inflating the currency leads to inflation, which is the cruelest of taxes. There are no free lunches and this tax deal continues us on the path of financial destruction.

[gateley]

13. It's gotten so bad, we've gotten so lost, there are too many issues that pop up

that need to be addressed. I feel like it's time to pull the plug, have everything come to a screeching halt, then rebuild it as it should be, but I don't think that's very realistic, either. :shrug:

[DemReadingDU]

17. I wish I knew when the tipping point comes

I have a list of things to do, and while I am somewhat prepared, there is still so much more to do.

[gateley]

22. I spent a year planning in my head for Y2K. I ended up, on December 31 at 11:30pm,

buying toilet paper and cigarettes. What MIGHT happen and what I MIGHT need was just too overwhelming to deal with. I'm the same way now. I just can't even begin to 'prepare'.

[DemReadingDU]

24. That's just it

It is overwhelming, like a global tsunami. We know it's coming and we'll do the best we can and help our family and neighbors. We'll all pitch in together, that's what Americans do. But after the shock wears off, that's what I worry about.

:(

[taught_me_patience]

23. Currency collapses are quite interesting

The normal pattern is a long and slow decline then a "tipping point" where there is sudden collapse. Theories abound about why this is.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-it-looks-like-when-your-currency-is-collapsing-2010-8

[taught_me_patience]

18. No that's not realistic either

We need politicians that will make hard choices even though they might be unpopular. It's hard when one side considers tax cuts to be the only solution to any problem we might face.

[gateley]

19. I understand it's not realistic - just wishful thinking, or fantasizing. It's amazing

how they do believe that - got a problem? Cut taxes, problem solved! Crazy!

[taught_me_patience]

25. There will be a move to progressivism when things get bad enough

It's amazing how "conservatives" become "liberal" when they need help! The only question is how much pain will it take before we reach that threshold?

[Statistical]

14. Worrying about debt in a recession is like worrying about cost of water while your house burns.

The carrying cost of our debt has actually been declining as older debt issued at higher interest rates matures and is replaced by new debt at historical (as in never in the history of the world) low rates.

Taxes will need to go up (and likely on everyone with lions share on the rich) but the time to do that is when we have solid sustainable 3% growth.

Destroying aggregate demand now to "save interest" in the future is the height of penny wise, pound foolish.

[hedgehog]

4. Meaning it won't hurt most of us, we're already in the soup.

But those rich folks stand to lose some money!

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. The US no longer being an Empire will hurt you

and not being the reserve currenty will hurt you.

The very top of the economic order will pull up stakes and move. In fact that's been under way for some years now.

[Statistical]

15. Like how UK and Italy are impoverished countries due to no longer being empires.

Er wait...

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. The UK had a generation of economic malaise

and so did Italy.

And Spain has the weakest economy, together with Portugal, of the EU zome, evenm if Greece is the true basket case.

[hedgehog]

28. I don't know about Italy, but I have long suspected England's economic

problems were a result of massive defense spending combined with too much of the country's wealth in too few hands.


Nothing we need to worry about, right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Nope, and trends there and here are very close

really close.

Hell some of our attitudes go back to the sixteenth century, if not even earlier.

[walldude]

7. Someone mentioned yesterday that the rating will stay the same

because we will do whatever it takes, probably paying someone or many people off.... Sounded logical to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. There is a limit as to how long they can keep the charade going

that is the truth.

It is also moodys, don't get me started on what I think of Moodys

[DJ13]

8. That works in their favor when you stop and think they want to bust the government

Its the same tactic the banksters have been using around the world since the 80's.

Break a country's economy, strangle their ability to fund the government by making bond too expensive to repay, then swoop in and buy up anything of value the government controls for pennies on the dollar.

Its just another act in the 'Shock Doctrine' Naomi Klein outlined.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I wish shock explained all, but it does not

that is another discussion though.

[DemReadingDU]

20. Reading Shock Doctirne

It appears that TPTB have been practicing on other countries, and next going for the U.S.
:(

[Bonhomme Richard]

16. This is all about lootling the vault before the

real shit hits the fan.

[DemReadingDU]

21. Oh yeh,

The propaganda tells us we're in recovery, nothing to worry about. The stock market keeps going up, and when the rug is pulled out, the rich get it all, the rest hold empty bags.

[meow mix]

29. great, no one wants to pay taxes so they plunge us into total collapse

great work caveapologists