I've seen so many smoking threads, I must say, I don't smoke, I'm a tobacco enthusiast.

[Fuzz]

I make my own smokes by hunting down the best tobacco and rolling it. I buy nice cigars, my favorite come from Nicaragua and Cuba. I've tried a pipe, don't like it.

I like a martini, dry and strong, up with olives.

Tell me I am a bad person, or that I shouldn't do those things, I will tell you to mind your own fucking business and fuck off.

Hey, I've cut down. I'm only going through two lighters a day now.

They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing. I haven't seen the stats on that yet.

I was in a cab in New York. The cab had a sign, "Please do not smoke, Christ is our unseen guest." This guy was reaching. I figure, if he could overcome being nailed to a cross, I don't think a Marlboro Light's gonna faze him that much.

See, I know you entertain some kind of eternal life fantasy because you've chosen not to smoke; let me be the first to pop that fucking bubble and send you hurtling back to reality – because you're dead too. And you know what doctors say: "Shit, if only you'd smoked, we'd have the technology to help you. It's you people dying from nothing who are screwed." I got lots of stuff waiting for me: oxygen tent, iron lung, electronic voice box; it's like going to Sharper Image when I die.

The last four paragraphs are thanks to Bill Hicks.

Keep the government away from my body. I have every right to be as irresponsible as anyone else.

[Zoeisright]

1. You can go ahead and smoke all you want, I don't care.

But your right to smoke ends at my nose.

Keep that shit inside your own lungs and you can burst into flames for all I care.

And making fun of dying from lung cancer is stupid and mean. It's death by drowning. But slloooooowwwwllly.

[Tatersbrowning]

18. I'm a former smoker...

I quit 3 years ago after a bout with congestive heart failure. I have, however, never asked anyone to please not smoke around me. They get to make their own decisions, as do I. I hate it when someone decides to reform their behavior and expects everyone around them to comply. You go your way and I'll go mine.

I should add that people smoking around me hasn't interfered with my decision to not smoke. I enjoy the smell.

[pokerfan]

39. I don't consider myself a former smoker

Like Craig Ferguson, I think of myself as a smoker who no longer smokes. I suppose it's a fine distinction but when I see the smokers huddled in some alcove in the driving rain, I think to myself, "These are my people!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgFtFU_VGVA

[inna]

22. no one made "fun of dying from lung cancer".

"Keep that shit inside your own lungs and you can burst into flames for all I care." - why such hostility? :shrug:

do yourself a favor and read Sabrina1's post downthread.

K&R for the OP's thread, btw.

[Fuzz]

24. I can and will make fun of anything and everyone. Nothing is sacred and people need

to lighten up a bit (no pun intended).

There is humor in everything, yes e v e r y t h i n g.

Enjoy life as much as you can and don't let the bastards get you down.

[inna]

26. +

well said

[Luminous Animal]

35. Keep you car exhaust out of my lungs.

[aquart]

2. Bill Hicks? Isn't he dead? Cancer at 32?

Well, good luck with that borrowed philosophy of yours.

[Fuzz]

17. Yes. Pancreatic cancer. Very sad.

[MattBaggins]

66. What's sad about it?

I think it's funny... Hilarious even.

[Fuzz]

72. Heh, I get the point. I miss him, that's why it's sad. Make a good

joke about his death and I will laugh, just saying that his death is hilarious isn't remotely funny.

[LooseWilly]

120. What's sad is that he had so many more cigarettes left to smoke...

I mourn for all those missed cigarettes...

[Logical]

3. No problem with me as long as I don't have to hang around you. Good Luck!

[Voice for Peace]

4. I'm sure when Jesus gave the sermon on the mount there were people smoking in the back of the crowd.

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. OK.

:popcorn: This will be entertaining. :popcorn:

[Fuzz]

8. I was going to put a popcorn thing in the original post, but decided against it.

;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. It's gonna be a feeding frenzy.

You brave soul. :hi:

[Drale]

6. Yeah and I'm not a video game addict

I'm a video game connoisseur.

[JVS]

10. At least you're not a crack aficionado,

[1awake]

7. The only thing I take issue with

is the use of a lighter. ;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. LOL.

:rofl:

[Tx4obama]

11. People that don't like smoke can stay locked up in their homes....

instead of trying to keep us smokers locked up in ours!

[LAGC]

117. Fuck that.

Smoking is a privilege, not a right.

There's no reason innocent bystanders should have to be subjected to your second-hand smoke in public.

[sabrina 1]

13. You can smoke around me any time, I am so sick of the fear

mongering about everything in this world.

I think a lot of these people who are scared to death of a little smoke blowing their way, will probably die of heart problems. Tension is the biggest killer of all. And I've never seen more tense people than the anti-smoking crowd.

Makes me want to smoke sometimes.

The illogical fear of smoking when you consider all the other things people are breathing in every day, makes zero sense to me.

Some of the healthiest people I know are those who are happy. A good disposition will probably keep people alive longer, as we have seen btw, since some of the oldest people in the world were smokers, than waving your arms around and raising your blood pressure every time someone else is happily having a cigarette or someone even raises the issue.

Everyone should just relax. We're all going to die of something, we may as well not spend what time we have in a constant state of terror.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. My husband's grandfather started smoking when he was 8 YEARS OLD! He rolled his own cigars

his entire life and smoked them every day. He was 102 when he died.

[sabrina 1]

80. Lol, good for him! It probably relaxed him and sounds like

he enjoyed himself while he was here :-)

[LadyHawkAZ]

38. +1

I'm horribly allergic to a lot of types of perfumes. I have yet to tell anyone they need to quit wearing it in public. I just go stand somewhere else.

A shame non-smokers can't extend me the same courtesy.

[sabrina 1]

55. Yes, my girlfriend is also very allergic to perfume but she has

never been rude enough to demand that people take their stinky perfume somewhere else.

What I find ironic is anti-smokers screaming about smoke from cigarettes while they breathe in the pollution from authomobiles, their own also was they contribute to the pollution in the air, every single day.

It's a risky world we live in. If we were all to spend our lives worrying about all of them, and working ourselves into a frenzy over each one, we may as well lie down and die.

In our house 'smokers are welcome and bad-tempered non-smokers are not' :-)

[Mutley]

127. I quit smoking

However, I still enjoy the smell when I walk past someone who is smoking.

Once, I was standing outside of work smoking a cigarette. Keep in mind, I was standing in the grass on the side (nearly far enough to be considered the back) of the building -- no where near where anyone needed to be for any reason. This woman takes the time to trod through the grass to come tell me that second hand smoke kills people. Meanwhile, the awful scent of the crappy perfumed she'd showered in that morning hit my nose, and immediately set my nose on fire. I told her cheap perfume kills faster, and she walked off in a huff.

Good times. :toast:

[LooseWilly]

121. Yes... the fear and the self-righteousness are awful... almost as bad as the auto fumes

:toast:

Well said...

[Psephos]

125. This is a good post. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

14. I really don't care if anyone smokes. Provided I never have to smell it.

For me, it's not even a health issue. It just smells disgusting. Go shut yourself in a room somewhere and smoke away to your heart's content, so that the rest of us are not subjected to the foul smelling byproduct of your habit. After all, I enjoy an occasional beer but I don't go around spraying urine on people.

[blondeatlast]

33. +1. My parents smoked nearly their whole lives.

When I got to college and knew what it was to breath unstinky air it was a damn revelation. I don't even like the smell of marijuana for the same reason.

Health issues are a non-issue for me as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Beer reeks to the rafters. A revolting smell. Even one open in a

room is enough to gag me. And eggs? Unacceptable stench. Horrid. The gut twists at the thought of it.
The beer? It already smells like urine. You are enjoying a glass of smelly piss as far as my nose is concerned and yet I assume that it does not smell like frosty urinal to you, and that you enjoy it, and that my own personal pet peeves are probably just that. And don't get me started on beer spilled on a hot day. It reeks and the world would be a finer place without it. This is without even mentioning the drunken drivers and skid row tall boy guzzler's section. Never once seen a smoker covered in vomit rolling in a gutter begging coins for a smoke. But still you have a point, beer is good because you like it, and smoking is bad because you don't like it. Makes a very brittle sort of sense.

[Nye Bevan]

44. So if someone is having a glass of beer with their meal, at a table next to yours in a restaurant,

the smell of that glass of beer actually bothers you? Seriously, you are the first person I have ever encountered in my entire life to make that claim. Either you have a truly unique and highly developed, selective sense of smell, or you are trying and failing to make some kind of point that people should not be bothered by the disgusting stench of cigarette smoke.

[ohheckyeah]

53. The very smell of beer gives me a

headache. A sip of beer would give me a migraine. Beer makes me retch.

[sabrina 1]

58. Beer stinks and people who drink it stink. But frankly it doesn't

bother me, it's just a fact. There are so many things people do that are disgusting. Imagine if we all waged a campaign against those who do things we hate the way anti-smokers do? What a world it would be. 'You stink, beer is disgusting' 'no, you stink, your perfume makes me feel like puking'. What I love about anti-smokers is how selfish they are. They think they are the only ones who have a legitimate reason to rant and rave about what other people are doing.

They should only know, some of them, how disgusting some of their own bad habits are. But most normal people don't waste their time on such behavior. Most normal realize that none of us all that important, that most people don't care about our little foibles. Anti-smokers seem to have been indoctrinated into thinking they have some kind of special status. It's an interesting phenomenon. A sort of victim complex. Where I grew up, being or playing a victim was the last thing anyone wanted to do.

[Fuzz]

62. Reminds me of christian fundies.

I know that hurts to a lot of anti smoking folks, but it's true and live with it.

[KittyWampus]

81. and your attitude reminds me of 5 year olds who are totally self absorbed & unable to accept

responsibility for their behavior and how it might impact others.

[LynneSin]

89. +1

:D

[Fuzz]

94. As is yours and anyone else who thinks preaching to another human being their imperious message

is proper behavior.

[kelly1mm]

122. You mean like those who insist on wearing perfume in public?nt

[blueamy66]

69. I don't care if people smoke. Hey, it's their body.

I drink a bit. Eh. To each their own.

BUT, my boss smokes like a chimney and really, he SMELLS. I mean I can smell him when he walks by my office after a cig.

He sometimes gives me a ride home...which I am grateful for...but his car SMELLS and there are ashes EVERYWHERE.

I would think that he would be bothered that he smells so yucky, ya know?

But, like I said, to each their own.

[Luminous Animal]

37. I feel the same about the majority of perfumes and colognes. WTF! Find something subtle!

[Nye Bevan]

45. Yep. Some women actually leave a scent trail behind them.

I have no idea why people would wear that much perfume. Is there anyone who actually enjoys the smell?

[Fuzz]

47. About 2 weeks ago my wife, two young daughters and I were out for dinner

at one of our favorite Asian fusion restaurants and a man walked in for a take out order wearing WAY too much Polo cologne which had more than likely been sitting in his cabinet for 25 years. I smoked outside the restaurant. He was sitting there waiting for his order. I can assure you that at least my family would have preferred he would have been smoking than wearing 1/2 a bottle of that horrible cologne. It was a good thing we were nearly done when he walked in.

[blueamy66]

70. I've changed to using a body spray instead of perfume.

It's lighter and like you said, subtle.

[LynneSin]

90. Personally perfume should not be used in the work place

Of course you get those smokers who think they are hiding their smoking by dousing themselves with perfume

:puke:

[Township75]

77. I guess that is the difference between you and me. I don't smoke nor drink but I do piss on everyone

and everything I can.

[Beam Me Up]

15. Here's a motto for you: "If I don't abuse my body, someone else will."

Take Fukushima for example. Now THERE is an increase in cancer risk that is spreading all over the Northern hemisphere. But that's just one example among many one could cite.

As for myself, I don't smoke, although I have. I just feel better when I don't.

[notadmblnd]

19. Nobody gets out alive!

But I'd be willing to bet that the guy who dropped dead behind my office building while jogging- thought he would.

[inna]

32. wow - true story or a second-hand anecdote?

[notadmblnd]

60. No, it is true. Happened about 10 years ago. the guy was out jogging

they found him in the back parking lot early in the morning. He looked to be about 40-45.

[BOG PERSON]

20. damn right

this is america, where individuals should be free to do whatever they feel like, as long as it doesn't pose a direct threat to the health/safety of others. :patriot:

[Fuzz]

21. Exactly. I'm a huge liberal, way to the left of Obama, but a small 'l' libertarian

in the style of Noam Chomsky.

[Tatersbrowning]

23. I'm a former smoker...

I quit 3 years ago after a bout with congestive heart failure. I have, however, never asked anyone to please not smoke around me. They get to make their own decisions, as do I. I hate it when someone decides to reform their behavior and expects everyone around them to comply. You go your way and I'll go mine.

I should add that people smoking around me hasn't interfered with my decision to not smoke. I enjoy the smell.

[Fuzz]

25. To each their own, I agree. I stopped thinking a god was going to strike me down

when I began to think for myself as I matured, but I'm not on a street corner telling everyone else to do the same as me. I have my thing, you have yours. We only have a problem when you try to force your thing on me.

[WinkyDink]

27. I read this article today:

http://www.mcall.com/health/mc-health-chat-oral-cancer,0,4238220.htmlstory

[notadmblnd]

61. I read this one a while back.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-oral-sex-linked-cancer.html

So your point was?

[NashVegas]

91. Exactly! Why Should I Have to Pay Higher Insurance Because Of Indiscrimanate Women

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. Sounds like a nutbag commentary if I've ever seen one.

Keep the gummit away from my body!

[Fuzz]

29. A women's right to choose called and asked you to find another argument.

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. So it's fair that because of your choices, you'll require lots of medical resources

that may not be available to someone else who opted not to smoke?

[Tatersbrowning]

41. that may not be available to someone else who opted not to smoke?

Why would they need them and, if so, why would they not be available? For the record, when I had CHF, I was very well cared for even though I had no insurance.

[Shagbark Hickory]

46. Well for example, maybe health problems resulting from your decades of tobacco use..

lands you in the ICU of a small or rural hospital with chest pains and internal bleeding.

There were two ambulances in service at the time, and both had patients. Smokers.

Only at the same unfortunate time, a car crash on leaves two children clinging to life on the side of a highway.

The EMTs scramble to hose the selfishness out of the ambulances so they can get to the children. When they finally do and transport the children to the hospital, there is a delay in treating the children because the doctors are working on the smokers.

So if you want the government to leave you alone and let you destroy your body, it's only fair that you waive your right to medical attention. And now that I know you're uninsured and getting treatment thanks to the generosity of the tax payers, then I'm especially pissed off.

Government, stay out of my life until I need you to save my life.

Yeah. spoken like a true nutbagger.

[Fuzz]

57. wow, you can't be serious. Anyone can make up some wild hypothetical situation

that may arise maybe in 1 out of 1 billion times, that certainly doesn't make for sound logic for public policy, to justify a nanny state or even for you to feel superior to another human being.

The argument you just made is equivalent to the argument that right wing idiots made that Michelle Obama's endeavor to get more people to exercise has lead to more people being killed by automobiles because they were hit by cars while walking.

[Shagbark Hickory]

63. No it isn't. It's a perfectly good and completely true scenario.

There is a shortage of rural hospitals and rural healthcare workers.

Even in the big cities, where the doctor to patient ratio is something like 1:375 you'll be waiting for a long time before someone can see you.

The argument I'm making is simple and fair.
I won't even get into the violating of the trade Cuban embargo... If you want to willfully smoke and want the government to butt out of your poor decisions, then at the very least, you should be on a deferred treatment waiting list so that only when all the other patients are treated, will you be treated. IF you aren't afraid of dying then surely you can get on board with this.

[PVnRT]

68. Maybe the government should keep tabs on what everybody is doing all the time

That way, you can also have on the deferred list:
- people who drink alcohol
- people who ride motorcycles
- people with bad diets
- people who engage in "extreme" sports
- people who don't use a seatbelt
- people who drive a car without airbags

Only then shall we know TRUE freedom and prosperity!

[Shagbark Hickory]

73. Most who smoke their whole lives end up with serious health problems

The same can't be said for all of your examples although they did make it unlawful to drive (and also be a passenger) without wearing a seatbelt so the government is already butting in to your life there.

I could get on board with some crackdowns on unhealthy food. I'm totally OK with that.

[PVnRT]

67. But what if aliens attack the ambulances! Then there are none for anybody!

Or there could be a sudden tornado! And don't forget about the swarms of sarcastic, mean drunk ducks that go around chewing out ambulance tires.

[Shagbark Hickory]

74. Good example. Did they teach you to think critically at UGA or are you just using their logo

because you like their athletics program?

[PVnRT]

103. lololololol

That would be for the Green Bay Packers, not Georgia. Besides, it resembles Grambling State more than UGA.

Critical thinking also involves not using ridiculous hypothetical examples like you did. I simply ran with the baton you handed off.

[Fuzz]

48. Statistically I won't live as long as a non-smoker, so I won't cost as much

as someone who will live to be 100. Especially since I am a person who will not ask for extreme life extending treatment. Death does not scare me in the least. Sure, I don't want to die right now, but when it comes, it does, and if the situation is right I will end my life myself. It is my choice, it is after all, my life.

[Shagbark Hickory]

64. ...

That was a study done in the UK. I'm assuming you're in the US?
It also doesn't take into account that regardless of how long you live or what the costs are, medical resources will be unavailable to other patients because you had to partake in self-destructive behavior.

Afterall, it's your life and with a self-destructive attitude like that, you're free to live it in another country that doesn't have taxes, embargos and health regulations.

If you want the opportunities and protections afforded to you by living in the US, you're going to have to play by the rules like the rest of us.

This isn't your private island. You have to share resources with over 300 million other people.

[sabrina 1]

84. Medical resources are unavailable to millions of Americans

right now, and that includes smokers. 'Live by the rules in the U.S.?' You mean DIE by the rules. Since over 40,000 people die each year because of inadequate health care or no coverage, people are far more likely to DIE by those rules.

If we had a national health care system, even taking your questionable theory into account, more people would live.

I wonder how many anti-smokers are FOR Nuclear Power?

Someone should do some research on that.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

104. Yes, I do. I was responding to your post #64

in which you argued:

That was a study done in the UK. I'm assuming you're in the US?
It also doesn't take into account that regardless of how long you live or what the costs are, medical resources will be unavailable to other patients because you had to partake in self-destructive behavior.

Afterall, it's your life and with a self-destructive attitude like that, you're free to live it in another country that doesn't have taxes, embargos and health regulations.

If you want the opportunities and protections afforded to you by living in the US, you're going to have to play by the rules like the rest of us.

This isn't your private island. You have to share resources with over 300 million other people.

I was pointing out that far more people are dying because the resources you are concerned about the OP sharing with 300 million others, simply don't exist for millions of Americans resulting in tens of thousands of deaths every year.

[Bonhomme Richard]

30. My Grandmother lived for 96 years

I don't know if she ever smoked but she did mind her own business.

[TK421]

40. that may be part of the reason she was around for 96 years n/t

[unkachuck]

36. aren't you worried....

....about all the Social Security taxes you're going pay and may never collect a cent? Freedom and smoking are poor excuses not to be paying your SS taxes....

....look at all the gas taxes you'll pay and may never live long enough to drive 45 mph down the new interstate slowing up traffic....

....what if you're dying a horrible death in a run-down hospital that caters to smokers and all your non-smoking friend come to pay their last respects....don't you think they'll chuckle and make your last few hours hell by echoing, 'We told him so.'?

....and how about you Mother? How is she going to explain to her friends that she had a dumb-fuck kid kill himself with tobacco?....for heaven sakes, think of dear old Mom....

[Fuzz]

49. I hope that was sarcastic, and if not, boo-hoo.

[Johonny]

42. Tobacco of course is intentionally loaded with a know addictive drug

The government has drug regulatory bodies. While in general prohibition doesn't work. I don't see why the government does not have the obligation to point out dangerous drugs and make sure you are warned. In the case of areas where second hand smoke are know dangers (airlines) I see no reason it should not prevent smoking in those areas. But having been warned if you WANT to do it. I see no evidence you can prevent people from taking substances the really want (or are massively addicted) to. I'm not sure that = your keep government away from away from my body. But I don't see how a processed tobacco leaf is a part of your body until you smoke it, and of course your second hand smoke becomes part of my body (a sticky area not dealt with in the weak argument above). But I see no way the government wins when it does more than highly recommends you don't take certain things and tries to prevent companies from profiting greatly (although many of the worse things are immune from regulations :) ) from it. I think history shows society is better off after such regulatory bodies like the FDA, EPA etc... were created, and would be better off if more products (say homeopathic medicine) were not immune from regulation. But that's just me.

[Fuzz]

50. As for my post, you seem to miss the part where I stated that I purchase the finest tobacco

This tobacco has no additives. Sure, it has nicotine, but there are no chemical additives at all. It is not only cheaper, it is better tasting and all around a better product straight from the farm.

Now, I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm just saying it's not the product you are describing.

[kelly1mm]

123. not mine, I grow, dry, cure, chop and roll my own. nt

[Fuzz]

124. You grow? Wow, where do you live?

I would like to, but I don't think the growing season is long enough in NJ.

[kelly1mm]

128. not too far from you really, western Maryland. nt

[Zorra]

43. I don't care if you smoke tobacco as long as you don't do it anywhere

near where me or my family can smell the smoke.

Keep the tobacco industry away from my body.

I have every right not to be exposed to their poison.

[Ron Green]

51. There's a "smoking area" outside a nursing home (!!) down the block from my house.

If I look out my upstairs window I can see the poor addicted bastards sucking on those butts like there's no tomorrow, and I feel pity for them and their helplessness.

But once in a while the wind shifts and brings the smoke my way. That's when I feel scorn and derision.

[blueamy66]

71. Yeah, but Ron, they're in a nursing home.

Let them have some type of joy, ya know?

When my Dad was in the hospital, dying from lymphoma, my fiance and I snuck in a cigar and a small bottle of wine. We snuck out on the balcony and he got about 8 puffs before the nurse caught us. But he got to drink his little bit of wine.

Hey, he was dying. We wanted him to have a small bit of happiness before he went.

And after the funeral, the entire group that attended the get together afterward lit up a cigar for him....even the grand daughters. :-)

[in_cog_ni_to]

99. You smell cigarette smoke from outside...... down the block?

O-M-G. :rofl: Oh-come-on. That's damn near impossible....unless it's a 3 ft. block we're talking about here.

Psychosomatic. You see it, then of course, you smell it.

"That's when I feel scorn and derision." Please. The people are living in a nursing home. More than likely the ONLY joy they have for a few minutes a day is to go outside and have a smoke and you derive "scorn and derision" from that? Nice.

[Ron Green]

108. The people smoking are employees there. And yes, when the wind blows from that direction,

we can smell the smoke.

I know they work hard, and they're poorly paid, but if they could shake this particular addiction they'd have a couple hundred more bucks a month in their pockets.

[in_cog_ni_to]

110. And could you explain to me WHY how they spend their hard earned money, is any of YOUR business?

This is unbelievable. It's not enough for anti-smokers that they have relegated smokers to the back allies to smoke, you now want to dictate that they not spend THEIR money on those smokes? Mighty slippery slope there, bud.

[Ron Green]

112. It's only my business when the smell of it bothers me at my own home.

It's simply an observation that they could keep a lot more of their hard-earned money if they kicked their addiction.

And in this case, I'd rather they NOT be relegated to the back alley to smoke; If they lit up in the building, I likely couldn't smell it.

[quakerboy]

126. To play devils advocate

Do I have the right or reason to advocate for the ending of barbecue due to the fact my old neighbors regularly doused theirs with massive quantities of lighter fluid, which would then waft in my window for half an hour or better in headache causing dosages, as they apparently felt the need to let the briquets marinate prior to lighting?



On the flip side, I totally side with you on the smelling it a block away. Depending on the quantity of smoke, the air flow, etc, I can easily smell a pack of smokers that far away. Hell, I know when the lady 3 buildings away has her "friend" over because that burnt green smell seems to travel even better than tobacco. And when my sister in law was living with me, I always knew in the morning when she had come home, because I could still smell the lingering presence of her smoking habit in the stairway, even though she knew better than to smoke inside.

[taught_me_patience]

52. You have a right to chain smoke 4 packs a day

I don't give a shit. You don't have a right to pollute my air with that shit. It reeks and causes cancer.

The smell of cigarette smoke literally makes me nauseous.

[zane25]

56. Here we go again

I suggest you take a sniff on the exhaust you create with every mile you drive. Are you intending to give that up? How many people with health issues would like to see you walking instead of polluting their air with your carbon dioxide. I guess it's just a matter of choice to a person like you. Keep being part of the problem all the while pointing the finger everywhere but home, it's easier that way isn't it?

[Lance_Boyle]

83. Your air? Is that the air inside some real property that you own exclusively?

'Cuz the air pretty much everywhere else is *our* air, and if you can belch car exhaust into it, I can puff tobacco (or other) smoke into it.

[sabrina 1]

85. Do you feel the same way about everyone who drives a

car? When I lived on a small island a few years ago there were hardly any cars there especially in the winter. When I went into NYC, on the LI Expressway, the stink from all the exhausts was so overwhelming I could feel myself choking on it. But after a few days, I didn't notice it anymore.

I hope you don't drive a car since you care so much about fouling up other people's air.

[walldude]

109. I live near a dog food factory. When they are cooking up

the food it smells disgusting. The smell makes me nauseous. I think everyone should have to give up their dogs so I don't have to smell that crap.


If I drive 5 miles west I am at a sewage plant. You want to talk disgusting? Maybe you should stop going to the bathroom so I don't have to smell that either.

[Aerows]

54. I am too

But I've started on an e-cigarette, and I have a bunch of questions about them, even though I am convinced this is the best thing since sliced bread. I am NOT advertising, either, and I am critical of the idea that a cartridge represents a pack, but the chocolate ones taste like my uncle's pipe tobacco - in other words, delicious.

I will probably continue puffing on a Marlboro Red once in a while because I truly enjoy them, but I am curious about other people's experience with e-cigs. I started a thread about it, too, asking.

[Fuzz]

59. I've tried them. I have one right here on my desk now.

Not the same, and you really need to want to stop smoking to make such a thing work, just like anything else.

[tammywammy]

65. On Monday I was sternly lectured by a 20 year old fellow student

I guess 20 years old, he looked quite young. I'm 30. I got the cocky "you know that's bad for you right?" Well, damnit, it's bad for me?!?!? When did this news come out???

I was standing away from the doorway to be considerate of other people and when I was done, I stubbed the cigarette out in the ashtray and then threw away the butt. I was minding my own damn business, and being considerate of all non-smokers when yet I still had to be lectured by the holier-than-thou non-smoker. I rolled my eyes, but was thinking he could go fuck himself for all I cared.


edited to add: Last night I went to the bathroom before class. It reeked of perfume. When we had a break an hour later I went in there to wash my hands after having a cigarette and it still reeked of perfume. :shrug:

[raccoon]

75. When your second-hand smoke is in the air I'm breathing, it IS my fucking business.

"I have every right to be as irresponsible as anyone else."

You don't have the right to be irresponsible with other people's body, i.e., forcing them to breathe your second hand smoke.

[Fuzz]

76. And as far as I know, I haven't done that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[sabrina 1]

86. You don't drive a car, right?

Fouling up the air, and that air doesn't belong to you no matter how much you think it does, by driving is irresponsible.

[raccoon]

97. self delete nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

101. That's some deadly stuff they spews into MY air when they drive! Vehicle Emissions:

Vehicle Emissions

Emissions from automobiles are one of the greatest contributing agents of air pollution in major cities across the globe. Driving a personal car is the most polluting activity of most citizens. Car emissions contain a range of many toxic pollutants such as sulphur dioxide, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, nitrogen dioxide, benzene, and polycyclic hydrocarbons lead.

[sabrina 1]

105. Yes, and you can feel it when you haven't lived in populated area

for a while. I love how people pretend that if they could ban smoking their air would be pure. And how they ignore their own contribution to fouling everyone else's air. It's all about 'me', 'my air' ~ .

People love scapegoats for some reason. It's not that I am promoting smoking, it's just that the arguments made with such intensity, bordering on hatred sometimes, by some anti-smokers are totally irrational when you consider that even if everyone stopped smoking tomorrow, they would still be breathing in massive amounts of pollution every day.

I object to the tactics and the attempt to create yet another 'other' in this society to ostracize and insult with impunity. As if we don't have enough already ... it's the autoritarianism, lacking any rational thought, that bothers me about groups who adapt a 'cause' and make no attempt to even have a rational discussion. Just 'my way or the highway'.

I think there is something more than concern about health going on.

I fear the takeover of authoritarians far more than the risks we face just by living every day and which we can make choices about.

I get the feeling that if it wasn't smoking, it would be something else to use as a bludgeon against 'lesser beings' for some of those people.

[Fuzz]

106. Very well said.

[JoeyT]

78. I loved Hicks.

I try to be as polite a smoker as possible, but it isn't easy. Not because I have to be around people that don't like smoke or because I feel the need to smoke all the time. That isn't what makes it hard. What makes it hard are the asshole militant nonsmokers. Nearly every smoker has dealt with these people. The ones that will cross an entire parking lot to stand near you and cough meaningfully, even when their car is on the opposite side of the lot. Then when the meaningful coughing doesn't enforce their moral crusade, the throat clearing starts. Finally they'll give up on "subtlety" and just demand you put it out. I find the most amusing reactions come if you respond with something like "Well, you came all the way over here just to stand next to a guy with a cigarette. I figured you must like it.".

Other than the ones that saw me with one in my car or on my porch or standing on the far side of a parking lot from the store, most people don't even know I smoke.

[Iggo]

79. You're a smoker.

You smoke.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. +1

I find it ridiculous when people try to "high-fallute" some mundane habit and go saying, "I'm don't do X, I (stupid pseudo-aristocratic term for X)".

[KittyWampus]

82. Your opening post is not funny and your attitude is juvenile. Second hand smoke from your filthy

habit impacts other in an extremely negative way.

I haven't smoked a cigarette in about 20 years. But even when I did smoke, I had the maturity and decency to be considerate of others who didn't smoke.

But, like a toddler or small child, your only concern is your own pleasure with no consideration of consequences to others.

[in_cog_ni_to]

100. I hope you don't drive a filthy polluting car. If you do, better start walking! Vehicle Emissions:

Vehicle Emissions

Emissions from automobiles are one of the greatest contributing agents of air pollution in major cities across the globe. Driving a personal car is the most polluting activity of most citizens. Car emissions contain a range of many toxic pollutants such as sulphur dioxide, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, nitrogen dioxide, benzene, and polycyclic hydrocarbons lead.


Take a nice deep breath the next time you get behind the wheel of your filthy second hand polluting car. That's a bad habit you have...driving a car that spews deadly chemicals into MY air.

your only concern is your own pleasure with no consideration of consequences to others.

[LynneSin]

88. Unless you are smoking an e-cigarette, you are imposing your choices on me.

You can be irresponsible all you want but when it impacts me then I have an issue with it and the government says my rights to not wanting to inhale tobacco smoke or share the highway with a drunk is more important that those who want to smoke everywhere or drive drunk.

Let's face it, the amount of 2nd hand smoke I inhale each year would barely give a lab rat even a bad cough. I'm in Delaware, we were the 2nd state to go smoke free so I rarely have to deal with indoor smoking.

But I do get around it and this is my issue - the smell is FUCKING AWFUL!!! If one does smoke they can't tell because their sense of smell probably gave up about 2-3 years after they started smoking. But for me I can smell and the smoke not only smells awful but it clings to my hair & clothes so even after I've walked away said smoker I can still smell that crap all over my clean clothes.

Personally smoke until your lungs rot out and fail you - what do I care, it won't affect me. But if you want to be in public either be respectful or at least get one of those e-cigarettes where you can get your fix without offending everyone else around you.

[sabrina 1]

107. Unless you are walking or riding a bike, or riding a horse

you are imposing your choices on so many people.

Your last paragraph is very revealing, and proves what many have said about some anti-smokers. Read it again, from the pov of people who have a more evolved attitude towards other human beings:

Personally smoke until your lungs rot out and fail you - what do I care, it won't affect me.

I am going to save that if you don't mind as an example of what passes for concern for others and probably a good reason why so many young people are still smoking.

But since this is all about YOU, I hope you never drive your stinky, poison-emitting vehicle onto the island where my family lives. Nothing smells worse or is more polluting to human beings, to those of us who do not own a car, than the exhausts of a thousand cars, no doubt many of which are filled with the 'don't foul up MY air' crowd, speeding along the highways and by-ways of this country.

Look in the mirror, your bad habits and addictions are contributing to the destruction of this planet just as much, if not more assuming you do drive a car and/or use central heating/air-conditioning, a computer, which you obviously do, a cell-phone and any other planet destroying technological device, which, before they got to YOUR hands, may have been the cause of death to poor, third world citizens who don't have a choice other than to mine for copper etc.

There is nothing more fascinating to me than the righteous crusader.

[LynneSin]

113. Well let's see

I bought my house 3 miles from work so I can take the bus each day. I'm lucky if I use even half a tank of gas each month. I do like having a car since I have family from out of state.

seriously, give it up with the 'oh you drive so how dare you judge' bullshit.

Here's the thing - driving, oddly enough, is something that most of us need unfortunately. But there is absolutely not ONE PERSON ANYWHERE in this world who needs smoking to survive. It's an addiction that some people choose to do but is not needed to survive. There is not one doctor ANYWHERE in the world that would say "oh but you need to smoke tobacco else you won't survive". Not one whatsoever.

And seriously, we're liberals here - most of us do our part to reduce carbon footprint with driving economical cars, living close to work and using alternative forms of transportation. So how DARE you judge us - seriously.

And finally, let's not forget how much money tobacco lobbyists give to the republican party. Hell for that reason alone I won't take up smoking. They have helped elect some of the most hateful people in this country. I mean, I'm told to boycott all these companies because they are hateful to gays, women, the disabled, minorities etc. etc. etc. And I do my part to be aware of those companies. But hell, here is an industry that has given way more to republicans than democrats and yet "oh no, who cares about what that big industry is doing I have an addiction and my civil rights says I should be allowed to smoke and I don't care if they helped put John Boehner in as Speaker of the house" http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=a02

Honestly, I have bad habits but they are my bad habits and I try to make choices that minimize them. Smoking is what it is - it's not only a bad habit but it's the leading cause of prventable deaths in this country. I watched my father die of it at age 40 and my uncle have his jaw removed because of it. These 2 grew up and lived in rural Pennsylvania - where was all that 'pollution' that caused it huh? Or perhaps it was the smoking they all started around age 12.

Get off your high horse. Your straw argument SUCKS beyond suckage!

[sabrina 1]

114. Speaking of straw men. The Oil Industry gives more money

to the Republican Party also, than anyone else, and we have them to thank for the likes of Dick Cheney and his warmongering buddies. Those wars for oil over the past century or so have killed more human beings and will continue to kill future generations for decades to come long after they are over, than anything else that is preventable.

Oil is an addiction. There are plenty of harmful addictions people engage in, because they are human.

I don't waste time on other people's addictions, even when they affect me personally.

My objection is not to educating people about the dangers of smoking, it is to the militancy with which this campaign has been conducted. And it is counter productive, just like our wars.

I am sorry about your family members. I too have lost people to cancer, but not from smoking. Most likely from other environmental causes. We are living in a world that is filled with environmental threats and it's only getting worse. But the focus on one questionable threat, second hand smoke, which is not even a proven fact, (and don't bother linking the Surgeon General's statement, and I won't bother linking the British Scientists findings), is one of the least threats we are exposed to every day.

The venomous attacks on smokers considering all these facts, is way out of proportion to the threat.

We got the draconian drug laws because of the same kind of campaign by people who were angry over the damage done by drugs and didn't stop there. Now we have a police state and the biggest prison population in the world and we still have a drug problem. We lost many rights as a result of that campaign and that anger was used to impose laws that violate our constitution.

Next will be smokers and the private prison industry, already booming, will be waiting to add to their enslavement of even more people.

Sorry, but I would rather take my chances with every once in a while being exposed to someone smoking than travel the route taken after the last campaign against 'addicts'.

I'd rather live a slightly shorter life free of anti-Constitutional laws, than live to an old age under oppressive laws.

Sometimes I wonder if this campaign is not orchestrated to make smoking illegal to continue feeding the prison and law enforcement industry. And after smoking, what? I hope the anti-smoker crowd don't have any bad habits that could be criminalized. In fact is there anything that cannot be when there are profits to be made?

[LynneSin]

116. You are so full of bullcrap

Here's the thing - are you telling me all these smokers live a life of zero footprint carbon. None of them drive or use any pollution bearing vehicle. None of them are doing anything or buying anything that helps elects democrats - the only thing they add to the environment is the smoke from their cigarettes. You show me a zero carbon footprint smoker I'll let them come in my house and smoke like a chimney while I'm there.

HOWEVER....

Pretty much most smokers here are like me, they own a car, they buy gas etc etc etc. SO guess what - we're ALL putting equal pollutants in the air. Only difference is the smoker is adding additional smoke that when in a confined indoor area will add to my pollution.

Get off your high horse and realize this - smoking is a CHOICE that is not need by the body - only addicted. You want to smoke up a storm so be it, no one is stopping you. However get over it, the laws are fair with indoor smoking and for most of the country WE LOVE IT TOO.

Your arguments are beyond weak - they are lame. If you are a smoker or any smoker, it's nothing more than making lame-ass excuses for their addiction. Hey guess what, I have an addiction too but it's mine to deal with and if people judge me for it so be it (I'm overweight by about 40lbs). If they want to tax HFCS or Transfats or slap warning labels on my food so be it. I'm big enough to accept I have an issue and I try my hardest to fight it since I know it's not good for my health. And btw I also drink, not a heavy drinker but I'll have 2-3 glasses a wine a week. But instead of screaming about how my rights to drive are infriged just because I want to drink in a bar somewhere, I adjust - I make sure I stick with my limits or use a taxi if I have too much. Mind you, I really don't drink out in public that much and most places I go I can walk home from when I am done.

Funny thing is most sane smokers just shrug their shoulders and recognize that smoking is something they best enjoy at home where others aren't are forced to inhale it. This whole 'ooo my civil liberties' with smokers is crap. If you're under 40 years of age, no one forces anyone to smoke and you probably had 12 years of education where they warned you of the dangers of smoking and yet for those who ignore it then deal with the laws.

BTW, I have met alot of DU smokers and to be honest I haven't met one in person that was this assinine about it - if anything they are some of the most courtious folks I've met. But as always there are those that give smokers a bad name - go figure!

[sabrina 1]

119. This is not about smoking, it's about the authoritarian

bullshit that led this country into the drug laws.

Hey guess what, I have an addiction too but it's mine to deal with and if people judge me for it so be it (I'm overweight by about 40lbs). If they want to tax HFCS or Transfats or slap warning labels on my food so be it.

And I would react the same way I react to nasty, anti-smoking bullies, to anyone who did judge you for it and would vehemently oppose 'punishment' by the government also.

Fine if you don't mind having a nanny government with even more control over people's lives than they have already, but the rest of us would prefer to deal with our own problems. See how much you'll care about other people's bad habits when this country becomes like Egypt was, and it will, and the way to get there is to keep giving the government reasons to pass more laws until there are so many that no one is free anymore.

I know this much, from people I know in countries like Egypt, you will never hear them complaining about other people's smoking, eating or drinking habits.

Adults should be able to work out their own problems. You don't like smoking, fine, stay away from people who smoke, leave them alone. Someone doesn't like drinking, same advice. Drugs, I hate drugs, and I'm not very fond of drinking either, nor smoking for that matter, but I can live with these things without attacking people, insulting them, bullying them, or bringing the government into it.

If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would be appalled at what this country has become. A nation of whiners and complainers filled with fears of one thing or another. The only thing they don't seem to fear is the loss of the rights they were given.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

92. You're a bad person, and shouldn't do those things ...

... things like quoting Bill Hicks. That can't be good for you. And I hate listening to second-hand Bill Hicks.

Just don't put your cigar out in my beer. I'm not done with it.

:hi:

[pipi_k]

93. Lots of talk about how it affects others...

mainly...as far as I can see, regarding the secondhand smoke issue.

But there's another issue here too.


People say they can be as irresponsible as they want to, and it's true. Really...go for it.

And you're right...none of us gets out of this alive.

But I think it's awfully selfish to keep doing something that could result in family and friends having to see you dying from something horrible.

I just lost my brother, 40 years old, in February after a long and very painful struggle with alcohol.

He was told about a year ago that if he quit drinking, he had AT LEAST a 50/50 chance of living another five years.

He chose not to get into treatment.

Yes, it was his right to do with himself what he wanted...but he left a whole lot of very hurt people behind, including a wife and two beautiful children. Granted, he was the one who suffered the (very ugly) bodily effects from dying of cirrhosis and kidney failure. It was awful. But we all suffered too, watching him die in such horrible pain. In the course of a year and a half, he was in the hospital no less than 15 times. He nearly died just before Christmas of last year.

So yes...people can do what they want.

But really, it's not always just about (the collective) YOU.

[LanternWaste]

95. I guess we all rationalize and justify...

I guess we all rationalize and justify our excesses in one way or another.

I find myself doing it quite often in an attempt at righteously defending my pack-a-day habit.

[Bake]

96. I'm with you, Fuzz! Time to burn one!

Non-smokers specifically NOT invited.

:smoke:

I've been smoking all my life and I ain't dead yet.

Nor do I ever take sick days from work.

Bake

[in_cog_ni_to]

102. Vehicle Emissions:

Unless every anti-smoker drives a hybrid, which emits a negligible amount of pollution into our air, you really have no room to complain. The garbage you breath in, on a daily basis, just walking out your front door can kill you and IF you drive a car, look in the mirror. If you walk or ride a bike everywhere you go or drive a hybrid, please just ignore this...and complain all you want. This is mainly for polluting vehicle driving hypocrites.

Vehicle Emissions

Emissions from automobiles are one of the greatest contributing agents of air pollution in major cities across the globe. Driving a personal car is the most polluting activity of most citizens. Car emissions contain a range of many toxic pollutants such as sulphur dioxide, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, nitrogen dioxide, benzene, and polycyclic hydrocarbons lead.

Pollutants

Carbon dioxide: Recently, carbon dioxide (CO?) was considered as the product of the perfect combustion as it is relatively harmless. Carbon dioxide does not have any direct impact on the human health, but it contributes much to the global warming. This greenhouse gas catches the earth heat and promotes global warming.

Carbon monoxide: Carbon monoxide (CO) is released as the by-product of normal or incomplete combustion process. This pollutant is formed when the carbon from the fuel is oxidized partially and this by-product has serious impact on the human health. Carbon monoxide affects the oxygen in the blood flow and creates major impact on an individual with the heart disease.

Hydrocarbons: Hydrocarbon pollutants are formed when the fuel is not completely burned. These unburned hydrocarbons react with nitrogen oxides to form ground-level ozone, which is a major contributor of smog formation. Hydrocarbons create various health problems such as eyes irritation, respiratory problems, and lungs damage. These hydrocarbons are the agents for many urban air pollution problems and also one of the potential causes of cancer. <snip>

http://www.actiondonation.org/articles/vehicle-emissions.html

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4419


<snip>
Components of Air Pollution

Air pollution is composed of many environmental factors. They include carbon monoxide, nitrates, sulfur dioxide, ozone, lead, secondhand tobacco smoke and particulate matter. Particulate matter, also known as particle pollution, is composed of solid and liquid particles within the air. It can be generated from vehicle emissions, tire fragmentation and road dust, power generation and industrial combustion, smelting and other metal processing, construction and demolition activities, residential wood burning, windblown soil, pollens, molds, forest fires, volcanic emissions and sea spray. These particles vary considerably in size, composition and origin.

Particulate Matter and Sulfur Dioxide

The concentrations of both particulate matter and sulfur dioxide often change in parallel. The oxidation of sulfur dioxide in the atmosphere is linked with the formation of various particulate compounds, including acid sulfates.

A 1994 report on the adverse effects of particulate air pollution, published in the Annual Reviews of Public Health, noted a 1 percent increase in total mortality for each 10 mg/m3 increase in particulate matter. Respiratory mortality increased 3.4 percent and cardiovascular mortality increased 1.4 percent. More recent research suggests that one possible link between acute exposure to particulate matter and sudden death may be related to sudden increases in heart rate or changes in heart rate variability.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has declared that "tens of thousands of people die each year from breathing tiny particles in the environment." A recent report released by the nonprofit Health Effects Institute in Cambridge, Mass., agrees with the EPA assessment. This study was reviewed by Science magazine and clearly shows that death rates in the 90 largest U.S. cities rise by 0.5 percent with only a tiny increase – 10 micrograms (mcg) per cubic meter -- in particles less than 10 micrometers in diameter. This finding is similar to those of other studies throughout the world. The case is stronger with this study, because it eliminated several factors that could confound the interpretation of the data, such as temperature and other pollutants.

The number of deaths due to cardiac and respiratory problems may be small when looking at individual cities with small particles in the environment. The combined long-term effect of studies in several large cities predicts 60,000 deaths each year caused by particulate matter. This is a staggering loss of life that can be eliminated by stricter emissions standards as proposed by the EPA.<snip>

<snip>Air Pollution Impact in U.S. Cities

Another study confirmed the importance of variations of pollution within a single city. Its findings suggested that a person’s exposure to toxic components of air pollution may vary as much within one city as across different cities. After studying 5,000 adults for eight years, the researchers also found that exposure to traffic-related air pollutants was more highly related to mortality than were city-wide background levels. For example, those who lived near a major road were more likely to die of a cardiovascular event.

Some research has estimated that people living in the most polluted U.S. cities could lose between 1.8 and 3.1 years because of exposure to chronic air pollution. This has led some scientists to conclude that

Short-term exposure to elevated levels of particle pollution is associated with a higher risk of death due to a cardiovascular event.
Hospital admissions for several cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases rise in response to higher concentrations of particle pollution.
Prolonged exposure to elevated levels of particle pollution is a factor in reducing overall life expectancy by a few years.

These studies also point to a possible connection between air pollution and cardiovascular disease:<snip>

See link for more. If you so choose.

[Union Scribe]

115. Whiny, childish

Throwing this at every person who posts, reasonably, that they don't want jerks blowing smoke in their face was sad at first (addicts do things like that to defend their addictions) but is now pretty obnoxious. Equivication and rationalization, not to mention the idiotic notion that non-smokers are all just dandy with heavy air pollution, don't go a very long way in making cig smoke--or its slaves--less annoying.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

111. I've been smoke-free using ecigs for 7 months now. I will never judge anyone's need or desire to

smoke. It's their business, not mine. Giving cigs up was my choice alone. I am still a nicotine addict and will probably will always be one.

[quinnox]

118. Wow, so proud of a filthy and terrible habit

What an idiotic and childish attitude, being addicted to tobacco is nothing to be proud of or something to praise. :eyes:

[Dash87]

129. Ah, the "you're going to die some day anyways" argument.

Your smoking is none of my business, but that's also a bad justification for smoking.

A prolonged life is a good thing for those around you who would rather you not die early. That's all I'll say.