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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:08 AM
Original message
The Nowhere Man
Plenty of people here won't like this, but that can't be helped. This is my opinion. No, he's not Bush...but that has come to mean less and less as time has passed.



President Barack Obama records his weekly address from a UPS customer center as part of the new public-private Green Fleet Partnership, April 1, 2011. (Photo: Pete Souza / White House Photo)

The Nowhere Man
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

Tuesday 05 April 2011

So, yeah, Obama is in. The President of the United States officially threw his hat into the 2012 election ring on Monday morning, and the nation reacted with a resounding, "Oh."

What a mess.

It wasn't even two and a half years ago. Can you believe it? Two and a half years ago, there was a detonation of optimism that echoed across the country once the returns were in on that November night. People took to the streets here in Boston, literally banging pots and pans together as they danced and shouted in celebration. The scene was repeated in city after city and town after town, and even the "mainstream" media gushed from election night to Inauguration Day about the spectacular moment in American history we were all witnessing together.

Hindsight, however, tells us today that much of that optimism was wildly misplaced. The long shadow of George W. Bush still hung low and dark over the land, as it does even now. That was part of it, of course, part of the sense of expiation and purgation so many felt once the deal went down; on that November night, the national nightmare of Mr. Bush's presidency was writing its final pages, and then came January, and he was gone. Despite all the failures and disappointments that have since come, those were two very good days.

And there have been disappointments. A great, great many of them. The words we heard were beautiful back then, soaring and sure, and many believed. How could they not? Here was this new president who could sing the birds down from the trees, who was introduced to the country in 2004 by way of a convention keynote address that blew the roof off the joint. Some years later, along the jagged, wending path of a brutal primary campaign, candidate Obama was carried to the nomination by the power of his words, and yes, many believed, even in spite of themselves.

But then he won it all, and two and a half years later, many of his most ardent supporters now hear his words and taste ashes in their mouths. You campaign in poetry, someone once said, but you govern in prose. The poetry was magnificent. The prose, in far too many ways, has been dreck, and those who believed now find themselves more demoralized than they can easily describe.

He and his fellow Democrats all but folded on health care, leaving us with less than half a loaf. He backtracked on Guantanamo, and doubled down on Afghanistan. He promised to erase Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, and broke his oath shamelessly, to his party's great lament in 2010. Wall Street stands unmolested at the center of his counsel, while Main Street withers on the vine. He is flipping missiles into Libya while flipping off the American people by racing to "compromise" with brigands and thieves on the matter of how many billions to cut. He has, to be sure, had his share of victories, but in so many critical ways, he has been the Nowhere Man, the absence of what was so seemingly present when he was elevated to his current station.

What galls the most, what infuriates and confounds, is the brazen clarity of the situation at hand. Mr. Obama has not been losing policy arguments to reasonable people. He has been losing policy arguments to people who are, in many instances, absolutely and unabashedly barking mad. He is losing policy arguments to people who sought elected office in government in order to denude and destroy that very government. Listen to them talk and the matter is plain: they got the job to destroy the job, and are so blinded by the fervor of their political catechism that they cannot be reasoned with under any circumstances. They are destroyers and usurpers, but Mr. Obama has time and again bared his neck to them, and we have all suffered with their sundry victories, and his sundry defeats.

They cannot be reasoned with, but can only be defeated, and after two and a half years, it is the President of the United States alone who appears to have not received the memo. Now he's running for re-election - not that anyone suspected he would do otherwise - and the machinery of campaign war is grinding to life in Chicago and Washington DC. Last time around, Mr. Obama's vast campaign war chest was filled with donations from millions of regular folks all across the country. The Obama campaign took money from the big boys, too; lots and lots of money. But what ultimately brought him to victory came from average Americans who could not afford to give but did. That, as much as anything else, was part of that sense of optimism felt by so many at the beginning.

Now?

Well, now is a different story. A great many of those who gave willingly the last time are two and a half years older today, two and a half years poorer, and two and a half years wiser. They will not be as quick to reach for their wallets and checkbooks when the piper calls them to campaign charity with his well-worn cadence. The Obama 2012 brain trust seems to know this, and are preparing a financial strategy far more dependent on big money than last time. They aim to raise a billion dollars this time. Thus, the political DNA of campaigner Obama and President Obama will even more closely resemble the CEOs and bankers that tore this nation to shreds and tatters.

The feeble fiction of the Democrats vs. Republicans paradigm has been falling to dust for a long time now, inexorably being replaced by a simple truth. There is but one paradigm in this reality, one core fact to be reckoned with: the struggle in America is between the Have's and the Have Not's, between towering wealth , towering greed and everyone else. It is about a class struggle that has been three centuries in the making, and even those who are today moderately comfortable will not be able to escape calamity. When it comes down, it will come down on all of us...all, of course, except the fortunate few who caused it all in the first place.

But who knows? Mr. Obama could choose to steer back into the wind, challenge his demented opposition with a will, and prevail in a way that inspires those who have waited all this time for the man they gave to and voted for to show up. The odds of re-election favor him in any case; it is hard to defeat an incumbent, and when considering the ludicrous carnival of nonsense that is the presumed Republican field, Mr. Obama's chances only improve. In many battlefield states, demographics favor the president in ways the GOP is not prepared to deal with. The 2012 election campaign promises, above all else and with absolute certainty, to be one of the most deranged political affairs to be seen since time out of mind.

It is tempting to comfort oneself with the notion that there are worst things in the world than a second Obama term, and there is a fat, cynical dollop of truth in that. After all, given the array of challenges this administration has faced since taking office, it is daunting to imagine the sorry condition we would be in under a President McCain. Now imagine watching Vice President Michele Bachmann, tapped by the Republican nominee in two years to shore up the Tea Party vote, taking the oath a heartbeat shy of the biggest chair in the country. Think it can't happen that way? Want to bet on it?

I don't.

Two and a half years ago, it was all about hope and change. Remember that? I am, personally, waiting with baited breath for the next battery of slogans to be deployed by the Obama campaign. No, seriously, I am. Nowhere Man 2012: Because Everyone Else Is Worse. That'll send them racing to the polls.

Yup. Here we go.

Again.

http://www.truth-out.org/nowhere-man
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. No, he's not Bush
but it's going to be a long 5 years. "Nowhere Man 2012: Because Everyone Else Is Worse." I think it's spot on.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Bush was the white guy, right?
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Bush was the previous President.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:32 AM by Autumn
I doubt their race has anything to do with it. IMO it's the continuing policies that are the problem.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. Resident.
"the two time unelected scion of the Bush mafia"

:)
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
58. That was my point.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
131. Nothing to do with race except marketability
as a Democratic presidential candidate. I am fed the fuck up with Obama. If he caves on the budget question he is done. The stage is set.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
155. Yes. When people have to vote for the lesser of two evils
eventually they realize we are still voting for evil.

Less evil is still evil.

We were promised something good, and had it snatched away from us as conservative advisers and staff were either kept in place or brought in to run the administration, and most of Bush's policies were kept in place just as they were before.

In some cases, the evil was even made worse, as in the example of implementing a policy supporting assassination of Americans who were suspected of having any involvement in terrorism. No trials. No evidence presented. No judges involved. No defense allowed. Just an accusation, and an American citizen is dead. That is blatantly unconstitutional, and illegal, but it is Obama policy child. x(

He won a nobel peace prize simply for the hope of what he would do because he wasn't Bush. That peace prize should be revoked.

He has been a warmonger since he took office, not only continuing wars that we all know where unnecessary and started with lies, but also continuing torture, and continuing to allow his military to ignore the epidemics rape and sexual assault, and soldiers being cheated out of honorable discharges because of PTSD and head injuries so that the military could avoid medical expenses, and soldiers being denied health care and benefits they need, all while military contractors are getting fatter on government money.

He has been no friend to civil rights, especially for whistle-blowers, or peace activists, or labor unions. Especially teacher's unions. he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to help the LGBTQI community by massive organized public pressure. He is the first democratic president in modern times to turn his back and do absolutely nothing to try to help Palestinians in the Middle East.

He has moved step by step, noticeably and visibly more in step with the wishes of wall street as his term has progressed, becoming more and more "The Wall Street President." Refusing to regulate derivatives. Refusing to reinstall Glass-Steagal. Refusing to appoint Elizabeth Warren openly and definitively to a position of real authority. Refusing to end the revolving door between the SEC and high paying jobs on Wall Street, that make it impossible for the SEC to police Wall Street, because none of their regulators are independent, and all the regulators (or their superiors) are beholden to the people they are supposed to regulate. Refusing to propose or support any reforms that experts are willing to consider effective or essential.

As a result, every expert admits that disasters like the one we are still in now, are guaranteed to happen again. And the next disaster is almost guaranteed to be caused the same way, but be larger next time. All because of failure to investigate, failure to hold people responsible, and failure to regulate this time when the administration and congress had a chance.

That is Evil. We will all pay the price for it. Again. :(

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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #155
165. good post, thanks. nt
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #155
170. Thank you. We so badly needed someone
who was willing to take on these problems, and that's what we didn't get.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #155
199. +10
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WiffenPoof Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #155
207. So Well Written...
...and spot on. It should be its own thread.

Thanks...

-PLA
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #155
211. +1000......spot-the-fuck-on
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #155
226. Yes, "evil is still evil." That's why I prefer to call our political choices the eviler of two
lessers.
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
188. I think that's the point that the poster was making
The only way to tell Obama from Bush is skin color.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
107. Yep. The one who lost but still won, and then won again.......
The one who couldn't fucking read,
but had a corporate media backing
his evil ass throughout.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
185. good...
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joentokyo Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
181. Everyone else is worse. So we know all the potential candidates because TV has told us so.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
184. Ditto...
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Spot on -- k&r
:kick:

"Because Everyone Else Is Worse" -- that would be TRUTH if used as a bumpersticker.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
135. I like that bumpersticker....and man it is soooo true
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good post
but you are going to take a lot heat over this................


I want the best, not someone that is just better..............
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
102. Then prepare to suffer under endless years of GOP rule.
Because that is what waiting for the "perfect" candidate will get you.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. No one said anything about perfection, Arkana.
We just want a Democrat, not some imposter from the other side.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #113
133. PLUS ONE! nt
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lark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #102
126. With this administration, it gets very difficult to tell the difference.
Yes, he sometimes talks like a Democrat, but only very rarely does he ever act like one. When it comes to actions, he's Repug corporatist appeaser willing to throw poor people and the working class under the bus at all times.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #102
232. How else do you let politicians know their actions are unacceptable?
I will not vote for either Dem or Gop.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #102
235. False Choice
It's a false choice between Obama and the "perfect candidate."
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. "feeble fiction of the Democrats vs. Republicans paradigm"
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 10:23 AM by emulatorloo
Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, Iowa etc

If you can't see the difference between Republicans and Democrats, start studying those states. Dems are fighting like hell against a bunch of insane people.

We are lucky in Iowa. Dems still control the Senate. They have slapped down every horrifying and draconian bill coming out of the Republican House.

You know better than to pedal this "may as well stay home stuff." While you are busy staying home, the wingnuts will be out electing more and more Republicans on the local as well as national level.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. +1 n/t
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. Sorry, but a Democratic governor for the past 8 years didn't do a thing to protect Michigan
Moreover, Carl Levin, one of Michigan's Democratic Senators, makes going to war (and rebuilding) Libya his top issue, while large part of MIchigan lies in ruins. This is the context in which this election will be held.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. In Iowa our Democratic Governor did a great job, and Tom Harkin is one of the best Senators
the US has.

Branstad and his cronies lied endlessly about Culver's record, claiming that he all but bankrupted the state. When in fact the budget was balanced and there was a surplus. We were "lucky" enough to have lots of outsider money poured in here to lie lie lie about every Democrat running
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Neither Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow are "one of the best Senators the US has"
I am glad you feel the Party is taking such good care of Iowa. As should be clear to anyone with a passing knowledge of the region, Michigan is in dire straights, perhaps despite the leadership of the above and the aforementioned Jennifer Granholm. :shrug:
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Fair enough on Levin and Stabenow.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:39 AM by emulatorloo
As to: "I am glad you feel the Party is taking such good care of Iowa."

It is not a "feeling" I have, It is the truth.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. By the same token then, the Party has *failed* Michigan. Just as "truthful". nt
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:48 AM by Romulox
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Plus one billion.
I'm fucking sick of that "repukes and democrats are the same" shit. It's not true. And this country is paying the price because of that inane sentiment.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
60. I'm in WI and don't feel Obama is with us. No, I don't want him to come here,
but some strong words of support would be nice. We are so busy with our own battle here, I can't even think about Obama. My money will go to local Dem candidates, but not one bit will go to Obama's re-election campaign. Nor my time. He'll have plenty of help from his corporate masters. He doesn't need us.

The Repugs ARE worse and I won't vote for them, but this will be a sour vote for me for POTUS in 2012.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
81. Are you serious, or just pretending to not get it?
In all those places it is not so much Dem vs Repub, but workers vs owners. There are plenty of Republican union workers who are standing up for their rights to collective bargaining. They aren't suddenly turning Democratic - they are acknowledging that what benefits the 2% is inimical to the 98%.

This is not about 'may as well stay home'. It is about Know Your Enemy.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. You nailed it, RaleighNCDUer. Thank you.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #81
93. Exactly
My Wisconsinite in-laws lean Republican (but voted Obama because McCain wanted to tax health insurance) and are incensed by what's going up there.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
92. Please point out where he said "may as well stay home"
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #92
119. I think it is implied . . .
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 03:37 PM by emulatorloo
in the sarcastic line about voters racing to the polls.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
101. There is a huge difference between the LaFollette-style Dems of Wisconsin,
And the DLC-style President in the Oval Office.

One style has to do with co-ops, and farm smart policies that shun the Big Banking interests, and the other has to do with someone who is in bed with the Banking Crowd.

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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
125. The difference you point out are obvious
What is not obvious is Obama's shared convictions.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
255. and Obama sits on the sidelines in ALL of these states and says and does nothing to stop it.
He has no spine.

Where are LBJ and FDR when you need them?
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. 2008: Hope, Change (positive). 2012: Or else (negative)
The majority of Americans voted for O in 08 because of the positive message, not because we were scared of Palin or McSame. They were a joke and never taken seriously by anyone who doesnt have a big ol Ronnie Raygun tatoo on their ass. Now this election cycle he thinks he can win on the "vote for me or else" ticket.

Most people do not want to hear petty bitching and moaning along with thinly veiled threats. We want uplifting messages to make us think that there's an end to the shit we're bogged down in (war, shitty economy, another war, radiation, yet another damn war...)

I Hope the Obama campaign people get this message in time to Change where they are heading with this. The "you made us lose the majority in 2010" argument and "or else" are not going to keep him in the White House. The repukes are going to be motivated, I fear we are not.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. You weren't afraid of McCain/Palin?
You must have nads of steele.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. Plenty of old style Republican voters were afraid of them
i was on a "mixed" discussion board at the time.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
149. The majority of Americans voted for O in 08 because of the positive message,
I thought it was because he was gonna end the useless wars. That's what I think most people thought Obama would accomplish.

So now we are pretending one is over

escalating the other

and starting a third.

Is he great at solving problems or WHAT!!!
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #149
197. dont forget keep people in their homes and reign in wall street
cant very well campaign on either of those as the hamp program was and is an abysmal failure while the banks ran roughshod over the populace..brazen incompetence and lies and fraud from the banks and no one is held accountable..im pissed..having my life do a 180 along with multi millions of others.. and the monster is growing still unstopped and unchecked.... And watch no one be held accountable while the key players in the meltdown are obamas advisers ...is just a little too difficult to swallow..and forget about wars...surge speech written and handed to him by the mic...heard it before...terror terror terror..war on...blah blah blah...

how can anyone watch this bs and not see it?
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #149
240. He's done EXACTLY what he said he'd do wrt Iraq and Afghanistan


Rarely has ANY politician been so true to his word.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
203. They are trying to motivate by fear, a tactic normally used by the hard right wing.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Again" That is what is so frustrating. This is the same movie with a different cast
Substitute Obama for Clinton, the Centrist Gore, the Centrist Kerry, the competent but uninspiring Dukakis.....

Clinton and Obama were great at campaigning as populists but governing as Corporate Centrists (Moderate Republicans)...In retrospect Gore would have probably been a really good president, but he trimmed his sails and also ran as a Cerntrist...Kerry likewise, was ashamed to own up to being a liberal.

Ah well....
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Nice post...
Thanks for putting it out there. There are plenty of us who share this frustration.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. Cool story bro. n/t
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. I remember digging deep for my $500 donation. There was the idea, I think, that if we the people
made up the bulk of Obama's donations, then Obama would be beholden to us, not the corporations and special interests.

Silly me. Every single government handout from tax cuts for the wealthy to the bank bailouts have been for the corporate and wealthy special interests. We the people have gotten next to no return on our investment in Obama. In fact, the poorest are likely worse off and the middle class has been decimated in a way not seen since Reagan (whom our President seems to admire).

I like the "Nowhere Man" analogy. This President had (and still has, I believe) the potential to be truly one of the great ones. Instead, if he continues upon this course, he'll be remembered as America's first African-American President that... ummm.... raised a BILLION dollars for his re-election campaign! Not for health care, not for Wall-Street reform -- those actions were not big and bold enough to make a difference in this environment. As a matter of fact, this year my health care premium increased by $500 per month. My insurance company happily informs me that this is a result of the recent health care legislation passed. This was not the time nor the era for "incremental" change. This was a time for BIG, BOLD, EARTH-SHAKING progressive change. So far, Obama hasn't delivered. I would venture to say, in terms of improving the lives of the average American, he's been a failure. Unbelievably, I'm worse off than I was 4 years ago and I bet a significant number of our nation's middle class can say the same.

It looks like 2012 is turning out to be a "the other guy/gal is much worse" type of election. My enthusiasm is gone, my expectations are nil, but I will definitely be voting if only to keep that much worse guy/gal out of office. Who knew this would be the outcome after that historic election of 2008?

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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
66. You donated $500 to O; his health care "reform" resulted in $500/mo insurance increase.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 12:41 PM by Divernan
to you! How ironic & unfair is that?!?! (I was talking to one of my doctors yesterday and we were bemoaning
the ripoffs by the health insurance industry. My doc is maybe 30 years old - he has a $4,000 deductible on his own health insurance.)

I've campaigned & donated to every Dem. presidential candidate (plus primary contests) since JFK. There have been some saddening losses down the years, but I never regretted the time and money I contributed - until this last election. I feel I was made a fool of, stabbed in the back and then Rahm added the actual insult to injury by referring to me as acting like I was "fucking retarded". It's been a cruelly disillusioning two years.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #66
178. Same here.
This is the only candidate where I have sincerely regretted the money I donated.

The health insurance industry is making out like bandits right now... just like Wall Street. And there's nothing we can do to stop them. Obama had to have known that without some mechanism for controlling costs, the insurance industry would just jack up the rates before the legislation truly took effect. I used to insure my daughter independently -- now that is no longer an option. Adding her to my own plan is what has caused the huge spike in premium.

And yes, I'm pissed off. This is beyond unfair... it will nearly bankrupt our family. I do understand why some people go uninsured now. Their premiums must be so high that they feel even if they have to go to an ER or hospital, they will never reach the total amount of a year's premium (for me... over $9,000 per year).
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
139. "Silly me." And silly me too.
We watched what the enthusiasm gap did in 2010. And I remain very suspicious of Obama.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
204. The guy owes us money, or representation.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
241. And you're mad at Obama instead of your Insurance Co.?
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #241
246. I think both are deserving of blame.
The insurance companies have always been dishonest brokers. Why would we pass a healthcare bill that placed them as the only option for those not eligible for Medicaid or Medicare?

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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. What can we do but elect the congress we need to effect the CHANGE WE NEED?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. A practical solution which seems to be lost on many
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
124. Practical shmactical.
I know I'm sick of "practical" solutions. At this point, I think torches and pitchforks outside of the New York Stock Exchange would be a good start.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #124
141. Don't forget the guillotines. nt
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
Great post. Wish I had some popcorn...
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. You're right, I didn't like it.
Cynical, unable to admit successes, disappointed....why?
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. Why people are disappointed is covered very clearly in the OP - as well as in countless other OP's
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:23 AM by Edweird
here on a daily basis.
The disappointment is real and justified whether you choose to accept the reality of it or not.
I dare you to accuse Pitt of "being an Obama hater" or that he "never really loved Obama" or "probably didn't vote for Obama in the first place".
I double-dog dare you.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. Why are you putting words in Jaxx's mouth?
That's just silly.

We are allowed to disagree with WillPitt's opinion. I think he is a good writer. I do not think this is one of his best pieces.

"The disappointment is real and justified whether you choose to accept the reality of it or not."

I think it is worth noting that the opinions expressed on DU does not necessarily reflect the opinions of non_DU'ers

For what it is worth, in the real world it is conservative Democrats who give Obama the lowest numbers.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval...

Obama Job Approval March 28 thru April 3rd, 2011.

Among Democrats 80%
Among Liberal Democrats 83%
Among Moderate Democrats 77%
Among Conservative Democrats 61%
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. What words did I put in 'Jaxx's' mouth?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. 'I dare you to accuse Pitt of "being an Obama hater"'
et cetera.

I think that is an absurd statement to make, given Jaxx's rather calm disagreement with the premise of the OP.

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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. I don't see it as being the least bit absurd. Do you deny those personal attacks
have taken place when less 'well known' DU'ers have expressed similar sentiments?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Are Jaxx or I making them? I think you need to dial back the hyperbole
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Yes, jaxx's post in its entirety is a personal attack. n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Really?
I didn't take it that way at all.

Vehement disagreement, for sure. But I stand before you unbruised.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Can I handle that?
:)

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Only the Shadow knows.
:P
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
117. Hi Will,
I'm glad you didn't take the comment personally, because I didn't take the article personally either. I looked at it as an article, and disagreed with the content. Some of your articles I do agree with and have said so. It has nothing to do with you, or me, but the fine art of politics.
See you around the board.
jaxx
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. LOL, I thought you were joking.
Glad Will straightened you out. ;)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. jaxx's post described Will and not his OP.
And Will described his own response, he didn't straighten me out because he knows that's impossible.

lol

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. LOL, are you sure? to beat a dead horse, jaxx's Post title "I didn't like IT"
So I read it as

Cynical, unable to admit successes, disappointed....why?

==


I think there is a little to much hypersensitivity these days - less discussion and more wild claims about "you are throwing X under the bus."

You and I disagree now and again, but we always have good discussions about it though. I appreciate those discussions, it is nice to bounce ideas around.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Well, you may be right.
I was noticing that it's only Day 2 and people are calling each other "haters" all over the place.

It would be nice if we didn't descend into the Big Ugly but tried to keep it cordial or at least civil so DU doesn't become unbearable again.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Yes, that would be really nice.
I was not on my best behavior yesterday, not good to post on DU when you are in a foul mood.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. Show me where I claimed either of you were - in fact I was pointing out how that WASN'T happening.
Try again.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
98. Gallup lies.
Look at it here, on other liberal websites and in the real world. His strongest support comes from the moderates, centrists and conservadems. Who do you see castigating him in the press, the blue-dogs or the lefties?

The obvious conclusion is, Gallup lies. They aren't trying to reflect opinion, but create it.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #98
143. Recently we have witnessed corruption
in all our previously trusted institutions why not pollsters. Actually it should come as no shock to find polls deeply corrupted.
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whoopingcrone Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
108. and among Progressive Democrats?
Like me? My kids? My 3 out of 4 voting grandchildren?
His "number" is up.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #108
221. No.
Definitely not like you.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
114. I don't think that liberal Democrats' support for Obama is enthusiastic
enough to get him elected in 2012.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. This kind of response isn't necessary.
It's bait.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for this. K&R (nt)
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
16. I can't hear you!
I'm in a bubble. Everyone in this bubble with me tells me everything is OK. We will win the next election.

Why am I taking off my shoes? The bear can still run faster than me. All I have to do is outrun you.

I don't have to be to the left. I only have to be to the left of them.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. Once again we are the victims of triangulation.
And we never seem to get it when it happens to us.
But what is worse we can't for some reason use that same principle to better our position....so we doom ourselves to a slide down the hill.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. I just looked up the word....mediocre.
Moderate to inferior....poor to middling....


Let`s see...if I was going to select someone to care for my children, should I choose the person that smokes crack AND drives drunk or the one that just smokes crack?
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theaocp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. What's truly sad
is that the corporations that speak out against him get the juiciest plums. He gets slapped around by business and sez, "Thank you sir, may I have another? What else can I do for you?" Pathetic. k&r
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
21. Nobody for President 2012
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:02 AM by deutsey
Who is in Washington right now working to make the world a safer place?

"Nobody!"

Why else should we vote for Nobody?

"Nobody's Perfect!"

"Nobody Keeps All Promises!"

"Nobody Should Have That Much Power!"

"Nobody makes apple pie better than Mom."

"And Nobody will love you when you're down and out."

(By hippy clown, Wavy Gravy)

:evilgrin:

PS: Yes, I'm voting Obama (though not with a great deal of enthusiasm), but I've always loved this bit.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
22. I worked for and made a donation to his first election
because he was going to end the middle east wars, close gitmo,
end the Bush tax cuts and bring some civil discourse to
politics. I wish him well in his upcoming election. I'm sure
he won't miss me or my minor contributions.  
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
61. My sentiments exactly russ. I'm done with the support.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
23. It is a fucking hard place to come to.
To finally realize that you are on your own, with no one politically looking out for you. :( That is what the Obama presidency has done for me -- convinced me once and for all that the Party I looked to to watch my back had been utterly infested by tha same corrupting influences that have lomg ruled the GOP.

Seriously, at what point do we say that the Democratic option we are given is NOT good enough for us? Is a Democratic candidate who is virtually indistinguishable from an old school Republican the only choice we will ever have again because they will always seem superior to what the GOPers offer?

At some point I believe we have to stand up and say loud and clear, sorry, but the lesser of two Evils is no longer good enough for us and our country. :shrug:

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ncpmd Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. Dear Hell Hath No Fury
Thanks for your comment.

I have lost all faith in the system. No Where Man does not inspire me. I can never again believe anything he promises as a candidate. Been there, done that...once bitten, twice shy.

In a country of 310 million people, is there not ONE person who is capable of being a great president? (Yes, I know of at least two!)
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
134. Perhaps like you, I too believed in '08.
Hell, I wept for joy on election night.

I just don't believe anymore.

Bake
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #134
146. I was not a True Believer.
I voted fro him because he was not John McCain. Being a politician, I knew there would be a difference between the candidate and the office holder, but I did expect him hold true to most important issues stances taken during the campaign.

I have been floored by where he has traveled as President. Floored, disgusted, ashamed -- and now convinced that no man or woman who has dreams of real change and reform will make it to that office.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
24. Did he really throw his HAT in the ring? I thought maybe he threw
in those comfortable shoes.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
25. K + R
You're right Will, I don't like it, but that's not your fault. It's the truth. As much as i hated the possibility of a Mc Cain presidency, I would have at least known what I would get.

The Obama presidency is the cruelest chapter in American politics. After 8 years of Bush, Obama offered hope, but it was a burnt offering
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
27. i am only sad to see the stranglehold that the
corporations and big money have on our government. that is not obama's fault, and something he likely cannot fix. he chips away at it where he can.
it frosts my cookies, tho, that everything is seen as obama's failure, when we could be talking about why things are going the way they are. gitmo just as a case in point. he tried. he was blocked at every turn. so, why isn't the headline- republicans stymy obama's effort to close gitmo. republicans force military tribunals, republicans kill attempts for fair trials. but it isn't. it is obama breaks campaign promise. i would even take obama fails to close gitmo. at least that acknowledges that he tried.

fwiw, there is a fundraising appearance here in chicago next week. it took me about 3 seconds to get out my credit card. i am still fired up and ready to go.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
183. well, good for ya that you're "still fired up". what an inspiration.
Not all of us even HAVE credit cards at this point, in case you didn't know.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #183
212. +
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
193. Even if I give you the Gitmo issue (which I most assuredly do not), there
would still be the tiny little matter of executive approval of non-judicial assassinations. Um, that's a brand spanking new Obama policy, not a continuation of a policy begun by Bush.

Here's an interesting question to ask yourself: assuming Obama was thwarted by Repukes only (when actually it was many Dem members who joined in the refusal to appropriate funds to close Gitmo), was there anything else Obama could have or should have done? To which I say, hell yes there was a lot he could have and should have done. For starters, Obama should have gone over the heads of the Dem and Repuke congresscritters and taken it straight to the American people. Did he do that? Hell no.

I won't be donating time or $$ to Obama in 2012. I have way better things to do with my time and $$. I doubt I will even waste the time required to vote for him.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
206. BS. He could shut it down tomorrow if he made a case to the American people and did it.
Didn't have a bit of trouble bombing Libya, did he . . .
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. Great writing, great analysis, Will.
Thank you for giving voice to my feelings and those of many other folks.

The change I've seen is change for the worse. Except for a few parts of healthcare reform.
The hope I had is gone. I lost my job a week before the election, and I've given up looking.

If they call me up asking for money, as I know they will, I am simply going to tell them to go get it from their corporate buddies, because I don't have any.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. good post. K&R
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. If your extensive research had involved a dictionary, you would
have easily found the word "bate," meaning:

"To moderate or restrain (a variation of "abate"): to bate one's enthusiasm, and, "to lessen or diminish," and "with bated breath - in a state of suspenseful anticipation."

"Bated breath" has been around a long time. Here's the first cite in the Oxford English Dictionary: "1596 Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice i. iii. 125 'With bated breath, and whispring humblenesse.'"

Maybe someday the Teeming Millions will all invest in a good dictionary, but I won't bate my breath.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
86. i figured
the spelling police was going to jump on that :eyes:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
173. why be so nasty about a simple, and extremely common, typo?
:shrug:
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #173
259. Nasty? Typo? I think not.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. damn, I thought he was gonna pay my mortgage
:eyes:
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
239. You obviously don't take policy seriously
.
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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
40. agreed, Will Pitt! thanks :( eom
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. Brilliant, Will. This is one of your very best...
And that is saying something, since everything you seriously write is so damn good.

Your sentence here is the core of the argument to me:

He has been losing policy arguments to people who are, in many instances, absolutely and unabashedly barking mad.

And the rest of us, with our reasonable voices and undeniable solutions, are ignored.


I'm proud to recommend this.

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. That ignores the fact that Republicans have control of the House of Representatives
It is true they are barking mad, but they are the ones that put out legislation.

The best bet is to get the worst things stopped in the Senate.

The Senate is fucked up too, but that's worth a whole nother thread.

In terms of LONG TERM STRATEGY - sitting home being sad about Obama is not going to get MORE GOOD DEMOCRATS elected to the House and Senate.
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YankmeCrankme Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #49
217. that ignores the fact that he had large majorities in the House and Senate for two years.
I blame Obama for allowing the Republicans to come back. They were defeated and disgraced after 2008, Democrats had huge majorities and polling numbers in their favor after the election. The only people he needed to convince were the more conservative Democrats to get legislation passed. Instead, he courted the Republicans, he catered to their desires like what they thought about what the government do had value. He continually threw them a lifeline just at the point where they had become irrelevant. That was one of his major faults. He basically resurrected the Republican Party. Whether it was purposeful or incompetence I don't know.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
50. In 2008 I did donate.
Obama was the first politician I ever donated my hard earned money towards.

In 2008 I helped get 6 people registered to vote, talked up Obama, and then drove them to the polls personally.

Sorry Obama, I may vote for you, but I won't be doing any of the things I did in 2008 for you. You won't get so much as a free bumper sticker of advertising from me this time.
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MsPithy Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
63. Hitting so many nails on the head.
"He has been losing policy arguments to people who are, in many instances, absolutely and unabashedly barking mad."

I think this describes the voters who are susceptible to the message of the Republicans and Fox channel. But, the Republicans who are making the policy arguments are just good ole-fashioned fucking liars! "Death panels" was a lie, and Obama let that lie affect the health care reform for the worse. Republicans lied about Shirley Sherrod and Obama fires her, before the Glen Beck show airs.

Trying to find common ground with liars who are hell-bent on his destruction, ... I just don't get it.


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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #63
152. I actually copied that line to
use in my post. That is a nail on the head.
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
65. I told the DNC caller the other day: Not one goddamned cent from this teacher.
I told her that I gave over a thousand dollars during Obama's run.
Now he is calling Jeb Bush one of our nation's greatest education
reformers. Barf me a fucking river.

Not one goddamned cent from this teacher.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
78. I thought that I was the only one to hear that garbage.
Thanks for the confirmation. Jeb is not the greatest anything.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #78
153. The Bush clan is a scourge in its entirety.
Any praise of a Bush only reveals where one's true loyalty lies.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #65
213. Not a dime of my hard-earned money either
Let the corporate CEOs fill the stadiums and knock on doors for him.
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
67. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!
It's a painful pill to swallow isn't it? We should have known back when the O started saying "Now is not the time to point fingers." right after the convention in Denver.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
70. Very well said. - K&R n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Ron Paul is a mixed bag. Most of what is in the bag is very bad.
But of course you should vote for him if he is your choice.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
74. Now, he's one of them.
Obama will retire from this job - four years or eight - a very wealthy man. He and his children, perhaps beyond that, are set for life.
Thus, the disconnect. He has clearly lost touch with the people he supposedly wanted to serve.
It'll be a classic "hold your nose" election in 2012. We simply can't cede anymore to the fascists - and if you think Obama is bad, then I have a lunatic for you!
The groundswell movement for Obama will not be there in 2012 and it may not make a difference. Perhaps he, or his people, knows this. Either way, he has little to lose. The people of this country, save for the 1% 'ers, have a ton to lose with another ideologue fanatic nut job as President.
So, I'll hold my nose.
What a tremendous disappointment though.
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OKDem08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
75. Here's a slogan
"Change" ... is all you've got left? Ok, we'll take that too.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
94. My tag line for the longest was....
I voted for change and that was all I got, change.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
76. He didn't fool me the first time around
and little that he does will surprise me now.
I feel badly for those of you who did believe though...you deserved better.
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sadbear Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
77. President McCain
Just remember that. We made the best choice, and it's still the best choice today. President Obama is the best choice in 2012. He may not be Candidate Obama, but he's apparently still the best American can do. We gotta live with that. Until everything crashes around us and we have to start from scratch.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
79. Obama=disappointment
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #80
148. I appreciate your sentiments, but once the field of candidates was
determined, it was already a no win situation. But of course, that doesn't mean that other issues like Libya or nuclear power should be allowed to be uncritically championed in the same way.
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
161. Well said!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
166. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
83. big kick
:kick:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
84. Yep, I remember sobbing with joy election night. I went down to the city center
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 01:54 PM by Lorien
and there was celebrating everywhere. People were honking their horns and literally dancing in the streets. We really did believe that Obama would usher in a second Camelot, which is why the past few years have been so painful and bitter.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
198. Thanks - how I felt on election night, also.
Been so sad and disillusioned. One would think I'd know better at my age but, Hope... he got me with Hope.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
85. SBT.
Sad but true.

K&R
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
88. Good post, but a technical note:
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 02:13 PM by MilesColtrane
The expression is "bated breath", as in a contraction of "abated".

"Baited breath" is the result of eating minnows or nightcrawlers.

:hi:
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. But but....
baited breath has so much more color.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #88
158. When I read previous posts using
"bated breath" I assumed the author didn't know how to spell bait. :rofl: Thank you for the heads up.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
89. Excellent commentary, Will. REC and KICK. nt
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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
90. Bravo, you've expressed my sentiments exactly. +1000
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
91. Nope, it's not "Everyone Else Is Worse"...it is "Obama is the BEST Man for the job"
"many of his most ardent supporters now hear his words and taste ashes in their mouths"

Many? BS. Yes very small few, sure. But for them, whatever Obama does is never good enough. Many of these people refuse to acknowledge any kind of accomplishment or any kind of progress made by Obama. It's all or nothing for them. To them, compromise is a four-letter word.

I and tens of millions of other people will be very happy when he is re-elected next November. And we will be voting FOR him, not against some other candidate. We won't be "holding our noses" either.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Blah blah blah...
Yeah nothing but whiners out here.

I admit if you ignore the constitutional violations, the wars, the tax breaks for the rich, the drug raids, Gitmo, nuclear power, offshore drilling, unemployment, foreclosures, Wall Street, Banks, corporate welfare, teachers, public workers, rising fuel costs, and skyrocketing food prices, things look GREAT!

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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. On DU? Sure. In the real world? Luckily most Democrats are not
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 02:26 PM by NYC Liberal
"whiners." In the real world, the liberal base of the party overwhelmingly supports Obama. In the real world, most people can see the progress and accomplishments, while also recognizing that a lot still needs to be done.

"Blah blah blah" indeed.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #97
110. We are the liberal base
We on DU are a sample of the that demographic.
I don't know what polls you might give to prove your point as you do not post one, but even if you could, I would suspect its findings.

Many of us on DU have gone from an amazing high in November of 2008 to being pulled down bit by bit, with each capitulation to the right by the President, to where it seems that the majority here, myself included, are very disappointed with him, especially when comparing his rhetoric on the campaign trail, compared to his actions as President.

Isn't that how poll takers work? Take a small sample and project that outwards adding a % point give or take?
And I would hardly even call DU membership "small". So given that, I'd trust the overall sentiment here on DU as a good indicator of the temperature of the greater "liberal base", just as much or more than some other official polling company.



I really hope that Obama has a challenger from the party. Someone who DOES represent the liberal base. Not that that person would win, with the MSM, big money etc. going to the corporate shill candidate, but it would at least lead to some good airing out in public about OUR concerns with this administration. It may even lead to Obama moving a little more to the center from the right. Of course he'd move right back to his head corp caterer position once back in office, but it would at least lay bare to more citizens exactly where this President's priorities truly lie and what issues he is ignoring.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. "We" on DU are an extremely small sample of that demographic.
"even if you could, I would suspect its findings" - That says it all right there. You haven't even see a poll and yet you've already dismissed it. So what purpose would posting polls be now?

Many of us on DU have gone from an amazing high in November of 2008 to being pulled down bit by bit, with each capitulation to the right by the President, to where it seems that the majority here, myself included, are very disappointed with him, especially when comparing his rhetoric on the campaign trail, compared to his actions as President.

"The majority here" means nothing. Polls here are meaningless (just like all internet polls) because they self-selecting, not random. Same goes for posting.

Isn't that how poll takers work? Take a small sample and project that outwards adding a % point give or take?
And I would hardly even call DU membership "small". So given that, I'd trust the overall sentiment here on DU as a good indicator of the temperature of the greater "liberal base", just as much or more than some other official polling company.


Um, no...that is not how poll takers work. Not even close. Go ask someone who knows anything about statistics how much internet polls mean. They mean just above nothing - "just above" because they do provide some amusement and so do the people who take them seriously.

overall sentiment here on DU as a good indicator of the temperature of the greater "liberal base"

Not by a mile. DU represents an extremely small sliver of the overall party...hell, a small sliver of the liberal base. Yes, DU's registered membership is large. But how many people are actively posting? A much smaller number. And of those, how many participate in polls here on DU? An even smaller number. Also, not everyone on DU is a Democrat - there are plenty of Independents/Greens/etc. who consider themselves progressives.

Not that that person would win, with the MSM, big money etc. going to the corporate shill candidate, but it would at least lead to some good airing out in public about OUR concerns with this administration.

There you go. If you don't care about winning, let me be blunt: stop running in elections. The purpose of running in an election is to win, not to prove a point. I have no respect for people who do this. It means you aren't a serious person. It means you just want attention and don't actually want to do things. Focus on doing, not just making noise.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #97
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #111
118. He already has the overwhelming support of liberal Democrats,
who recognize the accomplishments made over the last 2 years. Only in fantasy land has Obama lost the support of the party base. That, and in Republican Talking Point Land.

If you disagree with the vast majority of liberal Dems, that's fine.

I thought I elected MLK

There's your problem. I didn't think I was electing MLK, I voted for Barack Obama. And that's a good thing. I wouldn't want him to be MLK, I want him to be his own person. Stop expecting people to be other people.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. I expected him to keep his promises
To quote King, I got a promissory note that turned out to be "a check marked insufficient funds."

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #118
159. I just wanted someone
that would seek to enforce the law on the previous administration and Wall Street. I guess I should have listened more carefully during the campaign when Obama mentioned we had to "look forward".
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #111
121. The number of people without affordable health care then and now
Extended periods of unemployment have helped push the number of uninsured working age Americans (ages 19 to 64) to 52 million, with many of the newly uninsured unable to find replacement policies on the individual market. The number of uninsured was 38 million a decade ago, and 47 million was a common estimate mentioned during debate about the federal health insurance overhaul that President Barack Obama signed into law last March.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/03/survey_e...

This is a 2011 survey. The article concerns Louisiana, but the number of uninsured is national.

Very, very few people have benefited from Obama's healthcare law. And, regardless of the truth, most people have been persuaded by loudmouth media that they will suffer from it. Obama's healthcare work will not get him very many votes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #121
150. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #97
132. Let's see...
Gitmo? Sill open (and Bagram getting bigger).
Iraq? Still there.
Indefinite detention? Check.
Unmanned drone attacks? Check.
More military tribunals? Check.
Tax cuts for the wealthy? Check.
Wall Street bailouts? Check.
More war? Check.
Renditions? Check.

You're right. Whatever could those of us criticizing him be "whining" about? More than that...how DARE we!!!
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #132
190. got that right..what could we possibly be whining about?
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. I told a RW friend in 2009 that one of the many reasons he was the best man for
the job was that he was a centrist and a consensus builder and could bring both sides of the aisle together in reasonableness. I still think that is a driving force with PObama. Too much so. I didn't foresee that one side wouldn't budge...and that PObama would persist in consensus-building anyway and drag the other side over to the recalcitrant right and call it necessary compromise.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
116. What in the world has Obama done that makes you so pleased with his
presidency?
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #91
144. I'd argue, but..
I'm very small, the letters would be very tiny, too tiny for you to read them.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #91
236. Sycophantic
It seriously scares me when Americans talk about politicians like that.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
99. The voted for "Hope" and "Change" and got Politics As Usual.
What's fascinating is that his supporters describe him, simultaneously, as astonishingly successful and as powerless in the face of congress, or the media, or rich Republicans, or whatever other bogeyman they trot out to excuse the inevitable surrenders to the right.

Apparently, the "Constitutional Lawyer" has yet to be introduced to the Veto Pen.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
103. Am I the only one who remembers just how awful Bush was?
Or how the economy completely tanked only a few months before Obama was sworn into office drastically changing his priorities?

Or how the election tipped the balance of power towards conservative dems in the senate, aided by republican obstructionism, who forced every progressive bill proposed by Obama, or passed by the house, to be watered down in order to get anything done?

And now Obama is being taken to task for, in the context of all of the above, for not living up to his vague feel-good campaign rhetoric?

How is it, on this board of all places, people still don't understand just how much power corporate has over our political system and our individual lives?
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Roy Ellefson Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. voting for Obama
I'll vote for Obama, but I wish a Progressive were running. For once I'd like an advocate in the Oval Office not another corporate lapdog.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #103
129. That would make their endless opining more complicated to be all in the negative,
and we couldn't have that.

Corporate media along with netroots looking to be anti-establishment
are the nails needed for our coffin. Context doesn't do it for
"liberals" anymore. Black and white is much cleaner and easier to deal with.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #103
162. I guess the President should
come out and tell us that someone in the corporate world is threatening the lives of his family. Because short of that he should be taken to task and severely.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #103
196. I DO remember how awful Bush was
That's why I was hoping against hope that Obama would reject his policies instead of continuing them.

I said this before the election, and I was right--"We needed an FDR, and we got a Tony Blair." (Another politician who was elected to undo the damage done by the previous prime ministers and instead ended up continuing most of their policies and adding some new refinements of his own.)
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
105. Good piece
I agree, the Obama re-election slogans are going to sound awful hollow.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
106. I'm so fucking tired of the bullshit coming from various Know-it-alls......
Till I'm ready to work the hardest I have ever worked to get this man re-elected.....
Me and a few of my friends.

We will save this fucked up country, where folks sit on their fucking throne
while running their mouths, trying to muster up a following for the sake of their
ego being stroked. Weak ass folks who haven't done a MOFO thing since the last Presidential election
other than fucking opine and criticize everyone and anything.

Sometimes, I kind of wish that Pres. Obama would lose the next election....
so I can watch the current fucked up attitude turned into real honest to goodness fear & panic,
as folks instead of being able to criticize have to start worrying if the Internet will
be available to them for much longer. I ain't never seen such arrogant superiority complex
in action ever.

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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. Crush all dissent, keep the dream alive
The very idea of insulting others for holding the world ransom for one's ego is beyond hypocrisy from you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #106
122. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #122
140. Except this...
Remember that cut in the payroll tax as part of the tax deal? Everyone received a 2 percentage point cut. That was money that went to Social Security. How easy do think it's going to be restoring that money (in other words raising taxes) to the pre-deal level...and during a presidential election cycle? That's less money for social security for the long term. Maybe that's not a "gutting" but that coupled with the comments about social security from the deficit commission Obama appointed make wonder whether the "gutting" is already carved in stone in some back room stone carving.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #106
147. Interesting closing statement...
"I ain't never seen such arrogant superiority complex
in action ever. "

I would humbly suggest that you read what you just posted. Now take a deep breath. Now read it again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #106
171. this post would be funny if it wasn't so sad. nt
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #106
194. this country has not been saved by obama or anyone else..yet..nt
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #106
238. Who is arrogant?
You're talking like you are going to "save America" because you "get it" and nobody else does. Ironic?

Do you care at all about actual policy? Or do you just blindly support whomever the Democrats nominate for Pres.?

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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
112. "waiting with baited breath..."
What kind of bait are you using?

:)

I generally wait with bated breath, but perhaps you're trying to catch something?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #112
138. Yeah yeah yeah
:)

Fixed on the original.

Thanks.
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
123. Bush begat the teaparty four years too late
Will the response from the left to their own failure take an additional four years before we are as angry as the teabaggers?
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
127. Mr. Obama, Meet Mr. Fork.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 04:28 PM by Grinchie
I believe you are done.

Yep, the people aren't going to fall for "Everyone Else is Worse" as a campaign platform, when they know that just about evyone one else is the Same corporate stooge.

It's pretty clear that the Power That Be are trying very hard to invoke mass revolution so they can whip out their high tech crowd control machinery they have bee stockpiling for the occasion.

In the meantime, trot out the same old ploys to pretend like the status quo churns on.

Not this time, and no, we are not going into a violent revolution due to your prodding, poking, thievery and removal of basic rights and Freedoms.

At this point, with the World in the state it's in, the more they try to pass ridiculous laws, the fewer people will obey them. The more they try to starve the people and transfer the wealth, our values will change to things that are not valuable to the wealthy, nor will we consume the things they toss at us to keep us distracted.

When they realize that they can no longer venture out of the secure compound without risking some sort of incident, such as contracting TB from the unhealthy poor masses that have had healthcare withdrawn, then they will rethink their values.

The American Dream has been dismantled and shipped overseas for the next decade, and Obama and friends have been enthusiastically enabling it by shoveling money to the Banks and Corporations without any strings attached, while throwing trinkets at Americans in the form of Cash of Clunkers.

Too bad they bailed out GM so they could make yet more clunkers..

No more Obama. No more Everyone Else is Worse. The new paradigm is Get Elected, you better work for us or you be held accountable. It's clear that Obama thinks that he can escape accountability from his last campaign, and the speed at which he abandoned it after election.

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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #127
200. agreed....unfortunate but true..nt
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
128. Very observant Senor Pitt
Nowhere Man"

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

Nowhere Man, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's a real Nowhere Man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
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WiffenPoof Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #128
209. Geeze...
...it's been a long time since I read those lyrics. Very sad.

-PLA
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
130. Yep, he's got a lot of problems, the nowhere man does...
Party of NO!



An infestation of Blue Dogs!



Surrounded by both "blue" and "red" meanies!



Poor Mr. Obama...


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
136. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
137. He will have a second term! There is no doubt about that.
I'll even be voting for him because I have no where else to go.

But, "can't get fooled again" no matter what flowery promises come out of his mouth.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
142. Spot On!
a freakin shame too.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
145. Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see
I like the Beatles reference

But I don't think even with your elegance
of your prose that I think you are missing a point

We don't have to buy into it because that's all we have.

Enjoyed your post.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
154. What an adroit title.
Nowhere is his permanent location. Along with the rest of us.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
156. Sometimes I just wish
Mother Nature would put us out of our misery....just tilt on her axis and be done w/ all of this shit.

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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #156
230. Lately I've been wishing the same........
Just be done w/ all of this shit in one swift moment. What we have now is prolonged agony that just gets worse everyday.
I feel afraid for what future generations will have to endure.

I can't believe I would ever think like that but there it is!

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #230
247. I know what you mean....
Now we have radiation from Japan on its second circling of the globe. With all of this rain in the Midwest the past few days, I wonder how much fallout we have had drop on us.

Notice how the MSM has reported the big story of the 'dog on the floating rooftop' was the only big report out of Japan last week? There is a huge cover-up going on over this. And the CEO of General Electric whose name is eerily Jeffrey Immelt (I'm Melt) goes to Japan and denies any responsibility for their piss-ass design which uses old fuel rods.

I think that's why we're having this 'Shut Down the Gov't' debate and why Obama started 'campaigning' this week.

I'm relieved that I don't have children.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #247
248. I love my children and my grand children more than life itself...
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 02:01 PM by Little Star
But if I had known then, what I know now, I would have never have had them. It hurts just thinking what danger my bringing them into this world will bring to bear down upon them.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #248
251. Maybe one of your children
or grandchildren will find a solution to this mess.

I'm starting to think that the Mayan/Hopi paradigm shift might just end this horrid Competition and bring in a Cooperative Era where people finally realize that to survive they must COOPERATE!

We just have to get through this terrible transition.

Mother Nature is very pissed off because of the way she has been treated....she'll kick their Greedy butts and hopefully give those of us who have respected her a break.

That 9.0 Earthquake in Japan really tells us what she is capable of.

Or I'm just full of sh*t and should be ignored. :hi:

I wish you and yours the best.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
157. it's going to be an especially tough sell to teachers unless he fires Arne Duncan and replaces him
with an actual educator who isn't looking to privatize public education.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
160. one of your best essays, Mr. Pitt....
Thank you for sharing it here.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
163. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
164. great post! nt
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
167. right what a bastard
and by the way, there's not a damn bit of difference between George Bush and Al Gore.....
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #167
219. +1,000,000 n/t
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
168. If Obama/Senate Dems had done half as much good as Bush/republicans did bad,
we'd all be in a fanatical ecstatic frenzy, pouring out money, pounding the pavement and every dirt road for one more vote.

Instead, I'm here having to agree 100% with your post, while at the same time thoroughly hating it because it's real.

(BTW, IMO, Former Speaker Pelosi and House Dems get a pass and a well done. IMO, they really tried)
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
169. Great title. Great piece. Great pic to match. So spot on. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
172. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
174. YOU KNOW IT, WILLIAM
alas, some of us knew it before he was even elected
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julian09 Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #174
177. Whoever wins in 2012 has a good chance of another SCOTUS
appointment, dems can't afford to lose that choice.
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jerseyjack Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
175. Not a fukin dime from me....
As a great 20th century philosopher, orator and statesman once said,


"Fool me once, and shame on you.

Fool me --ah, you can't get fooled again."

Well, I ain't gonna get fooled again.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
176. I think if you really spent 24 business hours just watching all the stuff he does,
you'd be much more impressed.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #176
179. And that is the best you can come up with, eh?
You can't answer to Will's actual piece he wrote, you drudge up previous bullshit.

I tell you what, why don't you take your 24 hours....
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #179
201. I could maybe come up with better.
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:18 PM by LoZoccolo
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #176
195. If you were first lobotomized
or paid
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
180. Excellent though sobering piece Will. K&R.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
182. You read my mind AGAIN Will Pitt
And then summed up my own thoughts, so much better than even I can!

Not a pleasant commentary to read (truth to absorb) but one of your best IMO

+100

Let's hope our Pres pulls his head out of his ass (although I am not all that hopeful)

It's him or worse asshole (insert name here) but I don't want the choice between bad and worse.
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
186. there was a time - 2 or 3 mo ago - I might have agreed with you
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 08:40 PM by Kashka-Kat
What's different is that living here in Madison Wisconsin I've seen first hand what the power of PEOPLE is, and how totally useless politicians are at leading. They do not lead. They never will. It is WE who lead them. OUr 14 Dem senators made it quite clear that it was seeing and hearing all of us out their windows in increasing numbers each day, screaming chants, pounding drums, marching around the square and singing in the capitol hours and hours every day, into the night, that gave them the inspiration to bolt and not comply with Walker's agenda. They would not have done that otherwise.

I honestly believe this uprising could not have happened under Bush. If you've read the Shock doctrine... we were in shock here I believe from the get-go - from the unfair awarding of the presidency to Bush, to the stolen election (or should I say questionable Ohio activity) in 2004, to the shock and awe. And, maybe most importantly the unmistakeable equating of us, the leftist anti-war protestors, with "terrorist sympathizers." We were held to be qualitiatively THE SAME, and as such, under the bush law, we were the equivalent of a TERRORIST. As in "terrorists and terrorist sympathizers." Always those 2 were linked. I think the Abu Gharaib photos and parading of Jose Padilla around was for OUR benefit - and it worked. The message was "here's what we can do to you."

Dontcha remember that?????? That affects people, whether we are conscious of it or not. That scares us, and we shut down. Now, with Obama we have an opening. That's all it is, and all it ever was: an opening. It's up to us to take it. Use it .... or LOSE IT. I guess what scares me almost more than the radical right agenda that this OPENING will be thrown aside, and not recognized for what it is.

WHAT are you all waiting for?? The perfect Dave-like president? Doesn't exist. I've heard over the years the highly intellectual argument that things will get so bad finally people will rise up, so it doesn't matter if a republican or T-Party nutjob gets elected.

WRONG. It doesnt work that way. It gets SO BAD that people get scared, shut down, and can't act. That is what scares me more than the rad right - that we will surrender our power.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #186
220. Dave?
Dave's not here man.

It's sad, but your message is wasted in this forum.


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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #220
253. Well, yah, Dave doesn't exist - that was kind of the point?
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #253
257. Doesn't anybody
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 05:49 AM by JTFrog
remember Cheech and Chong?

And yea I got the point and agreed in my own sort of (apparently not so) humorous way.

:shrug:

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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #186
225. Damn good post
People have been expecting waaaay too much.
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Kashka-Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #225
233. YES indeed - when Obama chose Chicago Boys for advisers that shoulda been a clue
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 09:24 AM by Kashka-Kat
Goolsbee, Summmers Do they really think the Neolibs/neocons are just going to hand it over - "oh we're so sorry for bankrupting the American people and bullying you, let us write you a check for 6 trillion to reimburse the treasury!"
.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
187. Sadly, I think he's going to be remembered as a weak President.
Not because of the conservative lies, but because of the liberal reality.

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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #187
191. He puts me in mind of Calvin Coolidge:
"Keep cool with Coolidge" = "No drama, Obama".

Maybe Franklin Pierce, who was most comfortable with compromising because he would not have to take a stand. :(
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
189. Painfully honest and very well written..Bravo for saying what needs to be said..nt
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
192. You speak for me, Will. n/t
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
202. "...making all his nowhere plans for nobody"
So if the Republicans retake the White House, we'll all be force fed turd sandwiches served on stale Wonder Bread;

Obama serves me a turd sandwich on a handcrafted artisan baguette, garnished with heirloom tomatoes, Belgian endive, and a dollop of imported Dijon mustard, but it's still a turd sandwich.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
205. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
208. Way to Inspire People, William Pitt!!!
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 12:35 AM by PBass
:sarcasm:

Politics has ALWAYS been about voting for the Lesser of Two Evils.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
210. Yep, watch this drive

Obama with the Chairman and CEO of UBS, Robert Wolf, at Martha's Vineyard
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
214. I logged in just to K&R
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
215. And there it is.
An excellently written, sad but truthful assessment.
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Agony Donating Member (865 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
216. Too true to stay sober...
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 03:48 AM by Agony
I was going to say "Very sobering post!" but that would make me a hypocrite.

Nice writing job as usual.
Cheers anyway!

Agony

PS
So my new plan is:

1) drink heavily until Nov election
2) make way to polls and vote straight D
3) repeat

Simple
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
218. Wow. He's a politician.
What a shock!
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
222. It is not fiction
All the Dem = Rep lines bear one thing in common. They consistently underestimate the Reps. Read Ryan's budget and begin to get a grip on just who these folks actually are. Dems may occasionally cotton to corporate interests, but they don't like it much and are ashamed of it when it is pointed out.

Reps on the other hand are boldly and proudly pro-corporate, and when pointed out, not only defend it, but generally dig deeper and go even more extreme. They are the "we can't afford it" (because we are giving all the money to the rich) party.

It would be refreshing for the Dems to actually become an opposition, the "we can afford it" (because the rich will start paying for it) party. But I am not holding my breath on that one. I expect more of an "we are the reasonable ones" (because we will start collecting some taxes) party.

It is interesting to note that there would be no deficit if tax write offs and loopholes were eliminated. At current tax rates and structure, we collect 1 trillion a year, but write offs and loopholes leave 1.2 trillion that would otherwise be collected on the table. You don't even need to increase rates to solve the entire budget problem, just dump the special favors, the loopholes, and collect the taxes.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
223. Words from a voter on the street in upstate NY
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/rallies_...

Cindy Paoletti, of Salina, isnt a union member, shes what she and others call a 99er, someone who has been out of work so long that all their unemployment benefits have run out...

...For two years she looked for work, but now Paoletti considers herself a discouraged worker, someone no longer actively seeking employment....

...Earlier in the day, President Obama posted a video on the internet announcing he is running for re-election. Paoletti was not enthusiastic. Hell probably get her vote because she couldnt vote for a Republican, she said. Theyre out to destroy the whole country, as far as Im concerned, she said.

I dont know what happened to the hope and change, Paoletti said as cars passed through the busy intersection.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
224. What nonsense.
"And there have been disappointments. A great, great many of them."

And there have been a tremendous successes. A great, great many of them.

Every Presidency through the miscroscopic lense of great expectations, spin and especially hindsight is a disappointment. Just ask Clinton.

"The feeble fiction of the Democrats vs. Republicans paradigm has been falling to dust for a long time now, inexorably being replaced by a simple truth."

Yeah, Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin sure see it that way.

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #224
227. Name the successes.
Name one. Health care? Bullshit. The Republican plan from 1992 that is basically a giveaway to big insurance? Not a success. He completely caved on the public option.

DADT? He had the power to stop enforcing it immediately upon taking office but didn't. Instead for two years almost, thousands of gay soldiers were fired because Obama wouldn't do the right thing.

Continuing Bush policies (indefinite detention, GITMO, spying on Americans, etc, etc) when they should have been ended immediately.

No thanks.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #227
229. "Name one."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #229
237. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #229
243. "Formaldehyde Standards for Composite Wood Products Act"
lol
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #224
242. It is his RW policies that are disturbing and damaging
Your iceberg is slowly melting away
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Search4Justice Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
228. Mr. William Pitt,
You have an amazing ability to put into words, what so many of us are feeling.

I can honestly say that I will NEVER vote for a Republican, however..

... unless Mr Obama does that which I have no reason to believe he can or will (given his performance in the last two years), he will not have earned my vote, so I am likely to leave that slot empty on my ballot. I will never again, in this lifetime, stand up for someone that won't stand up for me.

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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
231. Great op, thanks for posting
K&R :dem:
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
234. no hope. no change. never was.
we were snookered. hoodwinked. taken. obummer is nothing short of a sell out, he got his and the rest of us can be damned. Nowhere man. absolutely right and I for one will never vote for him again. Sorry. Being lied to and stepped on once gives me the willies for doing this again. How disappointing he has been.
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
244. Obama is a man without a party
He has decided to be a one man 'centrist' political party. Problem is, there is no center in our two party system.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
245. All this is soooooooooo funny...
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 11:16 AM by Butch350
All of you people. I mean all of you people.

FROM THIS POINT IN TIME AND FORWARD DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THERE IS SOME MAGIC
HERO YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN THE WHITE HOUSE THAT IS GOING TO TURN THIS COUNTRY AROUND
AND SAVE THE FU****G DAY?!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH RIGHT.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ETC...

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #245
252. Derp.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
249. No effort toward Democracy is ever wasted.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
250. Excellent OP.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
254. WRP NAILS IT AGAIN! BEAUTIFUL!
That's exactly why I'm telling the Obama campaign, the DNC, the DCCC and the DSCC to drop dead when they call and ask for my money this time. My money is going to go directly to LIBERAL DEMOCRATS who know my name and face NOT to these organzations that take us for granted, use us when it's convenient and then ignore us when we want them to do our bidding.

I will be donating to Scott Randolph in the Florida Legislature and to Alan Grayson if he runs again. If Alan does not run I will donate to Anthony Weiner or Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich. I will not be blackmailed by my own party and I will not be taken advantage of. They will either start doing things my way or the highway. I am sick of the national party and the President rolling over and making nice with lunatics on the right. You don't make deals with the devil - you fight the devil.

Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
256. Blah blah blah. We got it. On to the next.
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Crewleader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
258. Thank You William!
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 08:52 AM by Crewleader
For your courage and true honesty in expressing words we all feel. You my friend have been a true Patriot! :hug:
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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #258
260. delete
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 08:05 PM by crazyjoe
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
261. Kick... Wish I Could Still Rec !!!
:kick:
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