We have our own brand of genocide, right here at home.

[BeachBaby]

Sure, it may not be by gassing or poisoning or shooting down our citizens en masse; but the fact of the matter is that people are dying in the US . because they can't afford a doctor; can't afford medication; don't have a roof over their head; don't have food. EN MASSE.

We're only as strong as our weakest link. Our only strong suit is the MIC - so while the PTB chant "bombs away!" to every other country with its own set of issues, its very own people are - in reality - left to fend for themselves. Left to die. Why? Because the US can't "afford" to take care of its citizens.

I've heard it opined, over and over, that this country and that country needs our help. WE. NEED. HELP. The emergency flares have been lit, but no one is coming to OUR rescue.

To look at it on a much smaller scale, think of it like this: if you were to know an insanely wealthy person, and come to find out that this wealthy person has extended family who is in dire need of medical care, food, and shelter, but instead of taking care of his/her extended family, he/she shuns their immediate need, and instead hands all their wealth elsewhere....what would you think of that person?

The middle and low-income classes are of no concern to the PTB. And, just for shits and giggles, have a look at this:

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

But we'll just keep pouring all of our hard-earned dollars into the MIC - while the very people who were taxed for that money are left to fend for themselves.

[Arctic Dave]

1. But our capitalist form of hunger and homelessness is better.

It comes wrap in a big bow with a smiley face.

[cali]

2. genocide has a specific meaning. You are grossly misusing the word.

I'm sympathetic to what I think you're trying to point out. I am not sympathetic to your truly piss poor rhetoric. Persuasive speech should be... persuasive.

[BeachBaby]

4. Specific meaning?

Like this one?

"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group." And there's more where that came from.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

[cali]

6. yes, like that. And I guarantee you that not one legitimate human rights expert

in the wide world would find that your claim meets those specifics. duh.

[BeachBaby]

8. "Duh"? Good grief.

"deliberate and systematic" - our government has a choice: they can assist its people in their time of extreme need, or they can deliberately ignore it.

Deliberately, systematically.....

That's EXACTLY what I'm seeing here in the US.

[cali]

12. make an outlandish claim that's not rooted in any common reality

and hold to it and then be shocked by the response. You need to inform yourself. You're ridiculously off base. sorry.

[BeachBaby]

14. If you don't want to read the full definition of "genocide", that's up to you.

But I, for one, am plenty informed.

[cali]

19. uh, wiki? lol. nice little primer but it really doesn't help those who are

bound and determined to twist the meaning of a term to fit their argument. the sad thing is that you have a legitimate argument to make. You simply don't have a clue as to how to effectively make it. Worry not, that's not at all unusual here.

[InvisibleTouch]

30. "Deliberate and systematic" differs from "not giving a damn."

The former is active, with premeditation and malicious intent. The latter is passive, maybe not even with full deliberate intent or awareness, just not wanting to think about it or be bothered. Not sure that one version is necessarily worse than the other, but they are different.

[CreekDog]

7. there is some sort of war against the poor and middle class in this country

i don't know what to call it, but the difference between that war and wars in other places, is that we spend money to fight wars in other places.

in this country? not so much.

so the poor and middle class (who are becoming poor) are left to fend for themselves while vipers are left to figure out how to take what little they have remaining.

[cali]

9. Call it a war on the poor and middle class

that's accurate. but genocide it is not.

[phleshdef]

3. Genocide has nothing to do with death from natural causes or inflicted by poverty.

Genocide is the willful murder of a bunch of innocent people. This entire post pretty well fails.

[cali]

5. actually, it's not that simple. I suppose one can argue that starvation is

a "natural" cause of death- but starvation has been used as an instrument of genocide. And furthermore, genocide can be carried out on the so-called innocent and the the not so innocent.

[phleshdef]

16. Starvation in the manner you speak of would be a type of murder, so it fits what I said fine.

[Recursion]

28. How many malnutrition deaths occur in the US annually?

From straight malnutrition it's something like ten to twelve; from complications from malnutrition it's around two thousand, which is fewer than die from boating accidents.

[phleshdef]

31. Yea. Our problems don't even come close to the scale that the 3rd world experiences.

[Recursion]

25. Right, but annual malnutrition deaths in the US are in the low double digits

ON EDIT: starvation, not malnutrition. Malnutrition deaths are in the low four-digits.

[cali]

27. could you please post a link for that?

[Recursion]

29. Starvation vs. malnutrition

CDC lists 2600 deaths from malnutrition in 2007: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/deaths.htm
which seems to include any death from a nutrition deficiency or complication

WHO lists 12 starvation deaths:
http://apps.who.int/whosis/database/mort/table1_process.cfm (that may not work for you if they're setting a cookie)

[phleshdef]

33. I wonder if "refusing a feeding tube in the hospital" counts among those starvation deaths.

I know of at least one person that died just a month ago because of this reason. She was very old, she had a stroke, she couldn't swallow because of complications the stroke caused. The hospital wanted to put her on a feeding tube and she refused, she wanted to move on and thats exactly what happened. In that case, she ultimately died of starvation but it was her choice to do so.

[MineralMan]

10. I think that's stretching the meaning of genocide to the

breaking point. That's not to say that what you're talking about is not horrible, but I think you've chosen the wrong word, there.

[BeachBaby]

11. From wiki:

"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."

I don't know how "genocide" is the wrong word. Just because we've associated the term with such atrocities such as the Holocaust, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in more subtle ways.

[cali]

15. let's parse. What national group is the middle class or poor?

What ethnic, racial or religious groups are they?

They aren't. Frankly, I find your insistence that what's happening here is genocide, morally repugnant.

[MineralMan]

17. The reason is right in the definition.

"ethnic, racial, religious, or national" The poor and disadvantaged in the USA don't fit any of those groups. The only grouping in which they fit is economical, and that's not part of the definition. Again, I agree that there's a focused strategy to hurt that group, but I think you've chosen the wrong word. Genocide has a clear meaning, both in the dictionary and in most people's minds. This doesn't fit that meaning very well at all.

Finally, I think your stretching of the meaning of the word diminishes the power of that word. And that's a bad thing, since real genocide is occurring in many places.

Sorry.

[RevStPatrick]

22. It's very simple...

All of those poor people you are referring to are not systematically being denied the opportunity for food and medical care. If one of them walks into a store and pays cash money for a box of Wheaties, it will be sold to them. If one of them goes to a doctor's office and pays cash money for a checkup, they will get a checkup. We are not helping our brothers and sisters as much as we can and should, but at the same time, they are not being denied services that they can pay for.

You might be able to argue that if the store refused to take their cash money for that box of Wheaties, because that person was(___fill in the blank___), then it's genocide.

It's the wrong word in this circumstance. And yes, what is going on still sucks as bad as Wheaties.

[bobbolink]

13. Thank you for actually including us poor folk. That is RARE. And much appreciated.

Yours is the first post I have seen include "lower class" along with the plea for the middleclass.

Thanks! :yourock:

[snappyturtle]

18. I agree with you. MAYbe genocide is a little strong but as far as I

am concerned the PTB are systematically eliminating people through enforced poverty and failure to provide
easily accessed medical care, etc. You're right: they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and those like them.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigwillq]

21. K and R (nt)

[murphyj87]

23. Bohnercare

Bohnercare would kill far more that the current 45,000 Americans a year who die because they don't have adequate health care. Those Americans would be alive in Canada, Britain, or any ADVANCED nation, but are left to die without health care in the backward Third World nation of the United States.

http://www.youtube.com/v/9TWuO5dBYjo?fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/T6i3RZdu7_k?fs=1

In 2007, Gordon H. Guyatt et al. conducted a peer reviewed meta-analysis, or systematic review, of studies that compared health outcomes for similar conditions in Canada and the U.S., in Open Medicine.

They concluded, "Available studies suggest that health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent." Guyatt identified studies addressing conditions including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of the 10 studies with the strongest statistical validity, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 were equivalent.

Overall, results for lower mortality favoured Canada with a 5% advantage.

[Recursion]

24. OFFS

You can always tell in these threads who has and hasn't seen the developing world firsthand...

[ensho]

26. kick

nt

[uppityperson]

32. This is an important issue but unrec for misuse of the term genocide.

I'd rec if you hadn't used it

[CreekDog]

34. note the term actually used: "brand of genocide"

which is essentially writing off entire groups of people in this country because the powers that be would prefer to spend lavishly on the MIC.

as they are fighting to figure out how much to cut Pell Grants and LIHEAP, the gargantuan budget for the MIC is almost completely unquestioned by the same people demanding massive cuts of programs that help the most vulnerable.