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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:49 PM
Original message
He's not like Bush.
Every time I read the "Obama is like Bush" comparison here, it makes me wince...and it makes me think people may have forgotten what those eight years were really like.

He's not like Bush.
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama speaks the English language better than Shrub. We don't
have to hear "NOO-KU-LUHR."
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. in your opinion. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. it makes me sick
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. why in the world would anyone think he is like Bush?
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Why indeed?
:eyes:
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
110. Because their rhetorical method requires it.
It's a stance they take.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #110
122. Tell me how
Obama's war policy is different from Bush's. You all are in denial.

The two wars Bush started are still happening. Where's the change?

DADT is the one of the only changes, and that was Congress who cut out that nonsense.

Obama also hired Wall Street insiders to run his economic policy like Bush did. Go ahead, deny the similarities here.

Yes, and with our pressure, he hired Warren to oversea a consumer protection bureau that Bush would never have entertained.

Just because Obama is different from Bush in some ways doesn't mean there is NO similarity as the Obama reality deniers would like everyone to believe. Time to face reality and not be party deniers like the Rethugs.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #122
131. Well, your reply shows it.
Your "reality" requires minimizing the value of any positive change and destroying all nuance. It's a method. (It's my contention that it's a method that is, at best, self-defeating.) By saying that your opinion is "reality" you're trying to trump all disagreement. You avoid arguing a position that allows for any disagreement. How is this helpful? It's just divisive.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. Interesting and misleading interpretation
I looked at the good and the bad of Obama's policies. Some of the bad is a continuation of Bush's policies. You want to deny that by making it about me.

Nice try, but in some ways that I listed, Obama is like Bush. In other ways I listed, he is not. You don't like my list, but you fail to list Obama's accomplishments. Is that because they are too few to support a defense of him?

You are the one that ranked the good and the bad. I didn't. My reality requires seeing the good and the bad. Showing the bad only minimizes the good for Obama apologists who can't stand seeing the policies of Bush continue in Obama. Deny it all you wish. They are continuing, as I listed above.

If you are unable to disagree and support your point, it's not my fault. I did create an argument, but you didn't like it, so you call it "divisive". You say I don't make an argument and can't even defend your position. That's sad.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #131
135. You failed to answer my main question
"How are Obama's war policies different from the Bush war policies" and instead rambled philisophical. So, how is Obama sooo different?

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. My point is about rhetorical style, and how it fogs thinking.
I thought that was clear. You seem to think that if I have a criticism of how you're saying what you're saying, that I must disagree with you. Then, "since I disagree with you" (which I think is a misdirection), the fact that I don't try to support the position that you're attacking means that you "win". This is a foggy conclusion.

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
112. Policy actions, perhaps?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. he sure as hell isn't- I'll never forget the 8 yrs of Bush/Cheney
It will take a long time to recover from that.

Thank you for voicing this.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not even. Sad that liberals forget so soon how fortunate we are
with this man v. idiot son, who gave us 8 years of ignorance.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree. K&R
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Will, today I have rug burn on my knees from slipping so
many times on the new astroturf. I've gotten to where I totally ignore so much of the false equivalency BS that festoons the hall.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. +1
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. It is just rampant here. Disgusting and pathetic.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
70. +1
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. He's not, and not just because he can speak in complete sentences.
It has never been more apparent than in this current situation with Libya.

We'd have troops on the ground and we'd be getting "SMOKE 'EM OUTTA DERE HOLES" and "DEAD 'R' ALIVE" speeches nonstop. Republicans would be demonizing Democrats who argued against full-on regime change in Libya as "anti-American" and "sympathetic to the terrorists".

There is a difference in leadership at the top--a cautiousness, a deliberateness that we did not see for eight years of Cowboy Dipshit. And you know what? I find it really, really refreshing that the President no longer spends more time deciding what kind of jam he wants on his PB&J than on whether to exercise American military might overseas.
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Thunderstruck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Someone just now did that to me in my thread.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. True enough . . . however, voting for the Bush tax cuts when he said he wouldn't,
keeping Gitmo open when he said he wouldn't,

voting for health insurance reform without a public option when he said he wouldn't,

keeping 50K troops in Iraq when he said he wouldn't

not pushing the Employee Fair Choice Act when he said he would

not marching with the Unions when their collective bargaining rights are stolen when he said he would . . .

He's not Bush, but he's a lot more like him than any of us could have imagined when we worked our asses off to elect him.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. +1 nt
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
99. +1.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. +1
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. +1
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. +1
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. He's no FDR either
nor LBJ nor JFK nor DDE. So? Being 'not like Bush' but continuing many awful Bush policies, sorry, not dissimilar enough.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
60. + 1...and I was so hoping. FDR also had the banking/corporate elites
breathing down at him but he had the cojones to stand up to them!
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
137. And concentration camps full of American citizens!
Don't forget that one!
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #36
74. He's like Clinton . . . we wanted FDR and we got Clinton. Shit. nt
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #74
91. Bill, or Hillary?
:shrug:
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #91
102. Bill, heh. Hillary may be the real liberal in the bunch. Who knows? nt.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
124. Pretty accurate assessment here
Peace,
Tex Shelters
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. +1
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. And no price tag for the latest US brings freedom to the ME
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
57. +1
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
65. "voting for the Bush tax cuts". You don't even know how our Govt. works.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #65
77. He could have vetoed the tax cuts. Instead he negotiated for them.
Pardon me for streamlining the point on a text-based blog, but your niggling quibble in no way invalidates the argument.
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
72. VOTING for tax cuts... VOTING for health insurance reform..... ????
President of the United States doesn't vote on anything, that's the job of the House of Representatives and the Senate. It seems a lot of people imagine Presidential authority being more like a king.

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Right, that's why Bush couldn't invade Iraq even though he wanted to . . . .hey, wait a minute nt
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #72
125. Blah blah blah
insert the word "supporting" or "promoting" instead of "voting" and get rid of the "for" and that is exactly what Obama did. An error in verbs does not make the underlying meaning untrue.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
84. +1
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
93. +1
this thread wouldn't been possible a year ago.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
109. There's more
not prosecuting Bush and Cheney for war crimes

not fighting for net neutrality

not making Social Security untouchable

not preventing more damaging trade agreements

not hiring Wall Street hacks to work in his Administration

not hiring lobbyists to work in his Administration


there's more, but taken together, he isn't Bush at all, he's Obama, and he is disappointing many of us.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:48 PM
Original message
Exactly
thanks for the reality check trickster.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
132. He's broken almost every important..
... campaign promise he made.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
133. +1
It's easier to keep track of the the promises he KEPT.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. +1. nt
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. He's much better than Bush
However, some folks are impatient and emotional, so rational thought is forgotten.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
126. Impatient? Damn right
to end the wars and support families facing foreclosures over the banks. You want us to be patient while the wars rage and unemployment is not addressed? What, are you on Obama's economics team trying to sell his reelection?

Give me a break and face reality. Obama could have done more, and yes, he's better than Bush by far. Perhaps Obama can run on that slogan, "Not as bad as Bush".

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Please explain how they are different.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Bush sold the war BEFORE he went in and Obama goes in before selling
That IS different.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:59 PM
Original message
It's great to have an articulate POTUS who isn't using military action
to serve a hidden agenda.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
68. So using military action for some bizarre purpose is better?
Because a three-front war is smart military tactics?

We didn't need to go in there like this. We should have taken troops out of at least one other country before we did this. What happens when Syria gets bad? Do we go to four fronts?
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. You're going to be in for a real shocker this summer when he announces a
40,000 troop surge into Afghanistan. The plans are already being drawn up - mark my words.

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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
113. Yeah, some of those "career" military men and women have
only served one or two tours in either Iraq or Afghanistan - the US needs to make sure they get their money's worth out of the training they put into them. Let's see if we can raise the returning rate of soldiers with blown off limbs or PTSD up to 50% by 2014, or 2018 or let's never stop these profitable wars.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. He's taller.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. He has read a book.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. That too!
And I was told he read the Constitution too. Doubt junior ever did.
:hi:
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
97. And he sure does give great speeches.
But he's got just a few little things in common with the Chimp...like:
He's not much of a Uniter and he likes the military.
He takes good care of his Wall St. buddies and doesn't particularly like regulation or punishment for abusers perpetrators of financial crimes.
He's a Constitutional lawyer but he doesn't let that get in the way of domestic spying and that torture thing in Gitmo.
Loves the Patriot Act.
He can wear comfortable shirts, but he can't find his comfortable shoes when American Labor is under siege.
He has a hard time reforming insurance if it takes a dent out of his friends' profits in the Insurance Industry.
Tax Breaks for Billionaires seem like a good idea.
Oil and Nukuler are where it's at.

I could go on, but he really does give better speeches than Bush, so I have to give him that.

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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. He is more like Budweiser.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. "...and it makes me think people may have forgotten what those eight years were really like"
Well said. :thumbsup:
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. I can't forget the Bush Cheney years because we're still living them
Whoever he is or isn't like, I no longer want him as president.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. +1 and it gives me no pleasure to have to agree.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
128. I wish I could jump up and down and defend Obama
but I can't.

However, I can send him letters in hope that he listens. I just sent hate mail to Bush.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Torture, continuation of two wars begun by Bush, hiring BFEE- & corporate-friendly idealogues,
awarding Poppy Bush with the American Freedom Award, continuation of NSA domestic policies, continuation of the Patriot Act, & on & on.

But I have to say, I'd much rather have a Democrat in the White House than a Republican. There are certain lines that not even a Democrat will cross (knock on wood).
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. No...he's not Bush...Obama is truly Unique... n/t
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LibinMo Donating Member (364 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. I will never forget
When I look back I feel as if those eight years were stolen from my life...






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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Could you show where someone made that claim?
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 07:07 PM by Duende azul
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
85. are you serious? it happens every day...
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #85
139. Where?
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greytdemocrat Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. You're Damn Right Will
President Obama is no Bu$h. Period.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
32. He rejected neocons' calls for ground troops to get regime change
Said, "We went down that road in Iraq. Regime change there took 8 years." Cost "thousands of American and Iraqi lives." And more than a trillion dollars...

K&R





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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. No, he isn't.
That still doesn't make what Obama is doing any less of an outrage.
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TNLib Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. He's more articulate than Bush
But on Policy I'm just not seeing that much difference.

He's a new Dem (DLC) and Bush was a neocon there just not much different between the two political philosophies.
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ReggieVeggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. I remember those eight years very well
which is why the last 2 have been so disappointing
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
37. Boy, if that is the benchmark then expectations
- have bottomed out.
How sad.
And pathetic.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
38. True. He's a bad president in his own unique way.
nt
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Ooooh SNAP!
hurr hurr hurr...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Each and every president is. nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
42. No He's Not... that's a fact
he's also not a good president.
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. give the brother a
amen.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
48. K & R, thanks.
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
49. The point loses its sting, since Obama doesn't think Bush was all that bad
Clearly. Or he does, but is conspiring to cover up Bush crimes and all the hellish things that happened under the Bush admin during those eight years. Or something. So that may be "not like Bush," but on the other hand, what *is* it?

Personally, that thought makes me wince.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
53. You're right. He's responsible for only ONE war. So far. n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
54. I didn't vote for Bush, so I had no expectations of him. nt
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
55. Lowering the bar is one thing; setting it on the ground is another
At least Junior could comply with the War Powers Act.

Twice, even.

Damned by faint praise.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. He's no space-alien either... or friend of labor... or any of a number of other things...
Did you have a real point?... or is this supposed to be a high-school pep-rally-esque moment?

(By the by... I'd say he's a lot more like Bush than he is like a space alien... or like a friend of labor...)
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. I'm just guessing this is a reaction to hearing this sentiment expressed here so frequently.... you
haven't heard him likened to an alien here often, have you?
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R. Somebody had to say it, so thanks for the reminder.
:thumbsup: :hi:
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
61. I agree he is not the same as Bush, but he ran on Change and Hope, and when...
comparing what he promsied to what he has done, he is much closer to Bush than he is to candidate Obama.

Same bank bailouts, tax cuts, Cuban "resorts", etc.

There are places I wish he was Bush. For example, if Bush had the kind of majority in congress that Obama had in 08-10, Bush would have gotten everything through he wanted. He would have slapped his party into line and into getting things done. Obama just sat back and said you do it...odd for someone who ran on so much.

I can sadly think of the way the two are not alike. Bush ran for a reason other than being a president. He had an ideaology he wanted to push forward into legislation. I can't say the same for Obama. He seems to have only run to become president. Now that he is president, he doesn't really know what to do because he didn't run to push an agenda.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
63. He's not like Senator Obama either.
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Gnommie Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
64. When the dictators in Saudi Arabia and Egypt say jump.....
I honestly think Libya is one of the most justified invasions the US has ever had. It goes without saying that we don't always do everything right and civilians will probably die, but out of all the places we've wrongfully invaded, Libya makes the most sense, and we're not even the ones leading the fight this time around. There's no ground troops and we're pretty much just providing air support.

This wasn't part of some long-winded conspiracy like what Bush-Cheney had going on (the idea to invade Iraq was in the works years before the Iraq War). This is a situation which arose in the middle east that the US and its allies decided to act on. It's a very justified invasion and although congress didn't officially declare war (and they haven't since WW2) that doesn't mean what we're doing is wrong.

it's also fallacious to assume that since we intervene somewhere there's bad things happening to good people we should intervene in every such place - that would just be impossible.

George
http://www.gnommie.com
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
66. He ran on hope and change. We got disappointment and more of the same.
Edited on Tue Mar-29-11 08:31 AM by Tatiana
Is he like Bush? No. He's intelligent. He's capable of rational thought. He sees not only black and white, but gray areas as well.

But certain traits are strikingly similar... like the stubbornness, like the arrogance, and (watching his Libya speech) the "I'm the decider" attitude.

He wasn't the strong President we needed. I thought he was. I thought he could stand up to those powerful interests, but instead he has simply succumbed to them. Unbelievably, I am worse off than I was just three years ago. I pay almost $600 more per month to cover my family on health insurance (a result of rising rates and the insurance companies canceling the option for parents to take out moderately affordable individual policies on their children). The property value in my neighborhood has tanked (I would have gladly supported a bailout of homeowners, like cramdown, to keep these people in their homes and out of foreclosure). With rising food and fuel costs, my take home pay is less (virtually no raise) and my living expenses are a lot more. Not to mention I have to take what little I have to help my grandmother who received no social security COLA, but has to contend with higher heating and food costs.

This reminds me, quite frankly of the 80s, I time of trickle-down misery, where the wealthy did even better than ever and the working class barely subsisted. This is happening on Obama's watch. I think it's time to stop making excuses for him and place some of the blame for the result of the policies Obama has advocated squarely on his shoulders.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #66
78. Oh, we got CHANGE alright. Look at how Candidate Obama changed when he became President. nt
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #66
95. No we didn't, and that's a gross oversimplification of what has taken place
over the last two and a half years.

Also, I really, REALLY wanna know where you get "stubbornness and arrogance" from Obama's demeanor. Really.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
67. K + R
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
69. No, with Monkeyboy, we knew we were gonna get fucked.
I'm angry at myself for being so naive that I thought things would be different and better. What a fucking dupe I was/am.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
75. Then try to distinguish his speech from one from Bush:
" For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and advocate for human freedom. Mindful of the risks and costs of military action, we are naturally reluctant to use force to solve the worlds many challenges. But when our interests and values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act. That is what happened in Libya over the course of these last six weeks. . . .

Confronted by this brutal repression and a looming humanitarian crisis, I ordered warships into the Mediterranean. European allies declared their willingness to commit resources to stop the killing. The Libyan opposition, and the Arab League, appealed to the world to save lives in Libya. At my direction, America led an effort with our allies at the United Nations Security Council to pass an historic Resolution that authorized a No Fly Zone to stop the regimes attacks from the air, and further authorized all necessary measures to protect the Libyan people. . . .

At this point, the United States and the world faced a choice. Gaddafi declared that he would show no mercy to his own people. He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment. In the past, we had seen him hang civilians in the streets, and kill over a thousand people in a single day. Now, we saw regime forces on the outskirts of the city. We knew that if we waited one more day, Benghazi a city nearly the size of Charlotte could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.

It was not in our national interest to let that happen. I refused to let that happen. . . .

To brush aside Americas responsibility as a leader and more profoundly our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are. Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different. And as President, I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action. . . .

Born, as we are, out of a revolution by those who longed to be free, we welcome the fact that history is on the move in the Middle East and North Africa, and that young people are leading the way. Because wherever people long to be free, they will find a friend in the United States. Ultimately, it is that faith those ideals that are the true measure of American leadership.

My fellow Americans, I know that at a time of upheaval overseas when the news is filled with conflict and change it can be tempting to turn away from the world. And as I have said before, our strength abroad is anchored in our strength at home. That must always be our North Star the ability of our people to reach their potential, to make wise choices with our resources, to enlarge the prosperity that serves as a wellspring of our power, and to live the values that we hold so dear.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
79. Translation: they have oil. Corporations want oil. Ergo, in we go. nt
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. I like to call it "crisis of opportunity"...
where moron* used mouth breathing blunt maneuvers, Obama waits for opportunity. LOL

In the end, the result is still the same.

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Union Scribe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
76. Maybe Obama should be making you wince a little, too.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. He makes me wince a lot
but the comparison is still crap.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
80. No, he is more a younger, hipper version of Bob Dole.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #80
103. Heh . . . good one. nt
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
81. The bar has been set.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
83. Gitmo still open, two of Bush's wars still going on, not the change I voted for.
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
87. Wars, Guantanamo, Patriot Act, Illegal Imprisonments
I think that pretty much sums up the Bush years.

How's Bradley Manning these days? And how are the prisoners in Guantanamo?

And is the Patriot Act still in place?

And now a Third War.

You do the math.

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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. +1. He's not Bush, with Bush we knew what we were getting
no one here could have guessed we be getting this during the primaries back in 07-08

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
89. No he's much fucking smarter
which makes all this even harder to deal with.

Obama is nothing like Bush.

He's also not the man we needed. We didn't need a politician we needed a leader. We got a great politician and a really shitty leader. Woo Hoo.
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
90. Blanket comparisons are ridiculous. I like that Obama doesn't pretend he's a cowboy.
And he's not like Bush in his education policy- Obama is doing far more damage in that area, for example.

But in almost every other way, of course he is "better" than Bush. Much less bad.

:hi:
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
92. Sorry, Will, but you're are dead wrong.
Edited on Tue Mar-29-11 11:20 AM by Hell Hath No Fury
The facts say otherwise -- I should know, I spent years several years cataloging Bush policies and I am seeing many of the very same things continuing/expanding under Obama. :( Domestic spying. Detainees. Indefinite detention. Expanding the war to Pakistan, Yemen, and elsewhere. Military contractors. Bowing to Big Business.

There may be some fiddling around the edges, but it is all essentially the same.

DoYouKnow.org on Facebook -- you look through that and then tell me Obama is not like Bush.

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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
94. Well, lookie here....
why in the world would anyone think he is like Bush?
he sure as hell isn't- I'll never forget the 8 yrs of Bush/Cheney
Not even. Sad that liberals forget so soon how fortunate we are
He's not, and not just because he can speak in complete sentences.



True enough . . . however, voting for the Bush tax cuts when he said he wouldn't,

keeping Gitmo open when he said he wouldn't,

voting for health insurance reform without a public option when he said he wouldn't,

keeping 50K troops in Iraq when he said he wouldn't

not pushing the Employee Fair Choice Act when he said he would

not marching with the Unions when their collective bargaining rights are stolen when he said he would . . .

He's not Bush, but he's a lot more like him than any of us could have imagined when we worked our asses off to elect him.


He rejected neocons' calls for ground troops to get regime change
Said, "We went down that road in Iraq. Regime change there took 8 years." Cost "thousands of American and Iraqi lives." And more than a trillion dollars...


And today we get this news:


Lejeune Marines prepare to deploy off Libyan coast

"CAMP LEJEUNE (WTVD) -- Twenty-two hundred Marines and sailors from Camp Lejeune are preparing to deploy off the coast of Libya in northern Africa. They said goodbye to their families Monday afternoon, and they'll be leaving in the days ahead.

There's always in the back of your mind what if, what could happen," Marine wife Carrie Cochran said.

Cochran, like the other wives, is confident her Marine is prepared for the mission.

"As long as he knows how to do his job and he keeps his concentration going, he can take care of his Marines then he can bring everybody home," Cochran said..."

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id...




No, not exactly the same as Boooosh, but this sure sounds fucking familiar to me.



Sorry, not buying the cheerleading any more than usual. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck.....

Are you all fucking insane to swallow his gump?

This is just the same old same old we got so conditioned to under the 8 previous years.

Humanitarian need, UN resolution, our duty,............endless wars




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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
96. Nice attempt
I'd say the pessimism meter is just as high or higher than 2000 to 2008.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
98. True. But unless he gets more like FDR and gets wealthy private
interests under control real soon, he will be only helping to trade out liberty for a little temporary security, the result of which is that we will very soon have neither.

It is not good enough to just be different than Bush.

He needs to be Bush's absolute antithesis.

Otherwise, we are toast.

The rapid growth of corporate wealth and power is indisputable. The negative effect this growth has had over our individual liberties and ability for self-determination is indisputable, and directly proportionate to the growth of corporate power.

Koch/Walker/Wisconsin, SCOTUS legislating from the bench in order to insure corporate control of our government, etc. ad nauseum, are not accidents.

This is a coordinated sustained effort to end democracy once and for all and take away what freedom we have left.

If President Obama does not make a full on sustained counter-attack to reign in corporate power, his Presidency will be little more than a random piss in the sea.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
100. Not fighting for a public option made me wince.
Not fighting to end Bush tax cuts made me wince.

Not closing Gitmo made me wince.

Entering a third war made me wince.

All of these things and many more made me wince because He's NOT the candidate many of us voted for in 2008.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
101. Those that say he is like Bush show their ignorance.
And frankly I find it embarrassing.
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JoseGaspar Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
104. Your thread, like so many others recently, makes the opposite point.

Those who agree with you point to largely cosmetic issues.

Those who disagree typically talk about policy, program, substance or partisanship.

No, he's not like Bush... but, he doesn't disagree with Bush on much (mostly on the "how" rather than the "what") and the two may become friends when he is done.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
105. He IS like Bush.
He isn't exactly like Bush, and he certainly isn't any worse than Bush.

But in his policy decisions, and when deciding from whom he takes council, he is very much like Bush.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
106. Elena Kagen and Sonia Sotomayor agree with you...nt
Sid
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
107. "They're the same" lie gave us Bush instead of Gore
Like hell they're the same, this kind of shit will have us ending up with President Walker. THINK THINK THINK about it people.
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StarburstClock Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. Torture camps are torture camps, war is war, crime is crime, corruption is corruption
I'm not like the previous person in my job either. Wow, what an insight -- NOT.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
111. No, he gives better speeches and has twice the I.Q., which makes him even more
of a disappointment because he should know better.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
114. Meanwhile...
Bush is prancing and dancing,his lying,ass all over the place just like he hasn't a care in the world. Some even have the nerve to even suggest that Jeb will be the RepubliCONS' candidate for President in 2012..
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
115. Pretty unfucking believable. Where are the illegal wire taps, torture, invasions for oil,
ties to the destructive ultra-rich, the list is endless.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
116. No shit Will! Me too!
I wonder if they even know what they are saying! Obama like Bush...hardly in any way, shape or form. Bush was the Destroyer from Hell and Cheney was Satan! Obama and Biden are not bent on destroying the country or the citizenry...Cheney couldn't wait to start punishing the poor and fucked over the Justice Department, evidently permanently, with his evil cohorts.
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
117. In one respect he's exactly like Bush to me.
I don't want to have a beer with him.

Obama, however, unlike Bush, is capable of doing the job.

I wish he'd do that job a lot more to the left.
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
118. assertions are not arguments
this reads like the first line and a half of a post that needed a couple of paragraphs to be worthwhile
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I Drink Water Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
119. If we were to drawn a Venn diagram, there would be considerable overlap
Of course, there would be some difference, but there would be plenty of similarities.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
120. But he is using Bush policies re: indefinite detention, etc.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc., etc.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
121. Saying he's like, or not like, Bush are both simplistic generalizations
in some ways Obama is like Bush (war, corporate taxes, foreign policy, hiring former bankers to give money to current bankers, etc), and in other ways, he's not like Bush, (he speaks better, he cares some for homosexuals, he supports more diversity, and a few other ways.)

Big deal if we compare him to Bush. Perhaps you are protesting a bit too much?

In many ways, his policies are the same as Bush. Sorry, but that's the facts.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
123. K and R
:thumbsup:While I have been dissappointed w/ some stuff Obama has or hasn't done , I'm in complete agreement Will.
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
127. Perhaps Obama can run on the slogan
"Not as bad as Bush." That should fly for the easily mollified.

Peace,
Tex Shelters
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PhillySane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
129. Well he did extend the Bush tax cuts and start a war in the ME
but besides that, I'd say he's alot like Bush.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
130. Other than talk.
...he IS just like Bush.
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Redford Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
138. I cannot believe we are in 3 wars now.
I truly believed Obama would of gotten us out of the first two by now.
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