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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:28 PM
Original message
Ratigan and guests discuss Koch bros piece taken down from Playboy.com - MUST SEE video
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I thought Ratigan was a conservative
I don't watch his show, so I don't know.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. He's like Tweety, all over the map
and sometimes he can be quite interesting. This is one of those times.

I've been trying to clue people in to these guys for ages, dropping the name in the hope that someone with more resources than I have would follow up on the whole series of bogus organizations and dummy corporations they use to shield themselves from what they've been doing to this country.
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. The DLC & Kock connection was not mentioned.
Neo-liberals are not liberals of democratic party members or even democratic. Neo-liberals are Machivellian/Strausian manipulators for economic and "God" given "aristocratic" elites that share much in foreign and economic policy with the neoconservatives.

Their common interest is to maximixe short-term control and benefit for a minority at over all cost to people and planet.

Neo-liberals have infiltrated and occupy leadership in the Democratic Party.

Mathews and Ratigan are tools.

Where was the mention that the Koch's also funded the "defunct" DLC otherwise known as the "New" democrats?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. Well, they're hoping to contain the damage
and I've always called them the Wall Street Democrats, not neoliberals. There is nothing liberal about that bunch, they're all worshiping at the altar of mammon, guided by the high priests of the plutocracy.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Many of us.
... have realized the utter uselessness of ideas like "liberal" and "conservative". They are merely labels used to divide us. I'm interested in what is best for the country - most of the time my preferences would be considered "liberal", but often "conservative" also.

There are more and more of us.
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Yes !! nt
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. You are right.
Those labels no longer have meaning. At one time 'conservatives' were against "foreign entanglements". Things have changed a whole bunch.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
44. The paradigm has changed.
It's time we stop using labels so much and stick to describing behaviors and naming names.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Not a conservative. Never.

Maybe an old fashioned conservative, in that he seems to perhaps believe in capitalism, but real capitalism.

He's dedicated to explaining how the whole financial world today is just one big ponzi scheme. The bankers are just manipulating the markets and taking our money, and it's not capitalism, and they're perpetrating massive fraud against us all the time and nobody will do anything about it.

That's Dylan Ratigan's message.

I think they have tried to tone him down, and get him to stick to a schedule. Early on, if he had a good guest he would just let them go on. He would keep asking good questions and listen to the answers and then follow up.

He hates the fed. Blames Greenspan. Talks about all the bubbles.

He's an honest financial journalist with an axe to grind.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Agreed. Ratigan WAS a finance and business guy
but he want capitalism that works, not corporatism. He's on top of renewable DER energy too!

Money elites HATE him.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'm a little bit surprised by how far this bit has gone.

I mean this bit he did back in November or December. I think not many people have noticed him because his show is at 4 pm when most folks, at least those who still have jobs, are still at work.

I'm surprised that he's not better known by now. He really goes after the banks and the Fed, relentlessly.

I adore him.

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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for posting this. Another thread mentioned it, OP gave a summary
and I was really wanting to see it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. we need to spread this, em
.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Pop Koch made his fortune working for STALIN and then brought that money to US starting Koch Ind.
and the Koch family now controls the GOP thanks to their alliance with the Bush family.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. and helped start the John Birch Society
which was a new one to me, but makes a fuck of a lot of sense.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I knew about the John Birch connection in the early 90s.
I just never expected it all to be played out like this in my lifetime...but, then, way back in the 90s (seems like foreverago) there were still some honest news bureaus back then.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
34. That is so true
I had thought the John Birch Society completely discredited by the 1970s, but it seems that many things on the far right - with no credibility - crept back into the mainstream. Did you ever thing that a Watergate burglar would get a radio or TV show? Did any one note - in the media - note the irony of Oliver North pontificating about Senator Kerry's patriotism in 2004, given that North's felony charge was for lying under oath to Senator Kerry?
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Jane Mayer's New Yorker article on the Kochs is a must-read
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "thanks to their alliance with the Bush family" ... who worked with Hitler!
We are in some DEEP shit.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Boz, this needs to go viral.
.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. Yes it does.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. The "unholy alliance."
Ratigan used the phrase, "the unholy alliance between business and the state," several times. I was hoping he'd make the final connection for people who might not do so on their own and use the word.

That unholy alliance defines "fascism" and we're almost there. We can never forget that big business tycoons supported European fascism in the 1920s and 1930s, and conspired in the attempted coup against FDR, which was foiled by Major General Smedley Butler.

Scott Walker and the other Teabagger/Koch-backed reTHUG governors are all using a dictatorial approach, doing nearly everything a fascist tyrant would do. I believe they're every bit as capable of mass murder as Hitler was, and things they've said and done recently confirm it.

Americans had better wake up, and fast, because these people are attempting to create a Fourth Reich enforced by the greatest military power the world has ever known, and I have no doubt they'd love to use that force.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Exactly right. And the majority of teabaggers are just dupes, unaware that they're being used
by the fascists to CRUSH whatever rights we had left.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. You exactly correct.
Ratigan and others need to call them exactly what they are.
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revolutionnow45 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. more
And where did Fred Koch get these ideas?

Information connecting Ilse Koch (nee Kohler) is hard to find. It’s mainly fragments, pieces of information that connect the American and German Kochs and this connection gives a clear image of the sentiment behind the Tea Party and conservative American politics since the 1950s. Where is the connection between the German Koch’s and Fred Koch? Besides evidence the American Koch was related to Ilse’s family, Erich Koch, a high level Nazi official in charge of Prussia, invites Fred Koch to sell his oil in Nazi Germany when he is banned from doing business in the US. After the fall of Nazi Germany, Erich Koch and Fred expand the oil empire to the Soviet Union. Erich Koch had been in charge of Prussia for Hitler so his ties to the Soviet Union ran deep. A few years later the Soviets took Fred Koch’s oil and prosecuted Erich for war crimes. Fred Koch returned to the US, became a FLAMING anti-communist, and was allowed to do business in the States again. Fred Koch admired Mussolini’s tactics against Communism, and it is when he embraces this sort of thinking that he becomes a staunch opponent of civil rights.

Ilse and her husband Karl were tried by the SS before the war ended, accused of corruption. Karl Otto Koch was tried and sentenced to death in Nazi Germany, for incitement to murder and embezzlement. He was executed by firing quad on April 5th, 1945. After the war, Ilse was arrested in the German American Zone, tried in front of a tribunal and sentenced. Ilse committed suicide by hanging herself, in prison, in 1967. She was the only woman to be found guilty of war crimes in World War II.

I am including some more specific information about certain members of the Koch-Kohler family, for clarification and to give further evidence of the generations of hate within the Koch family.

Erich Koch

Erich Koch was a high ranking Nazi official in the Ukraine, with control of the Gestapo and the police. His domain was extended from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea; he captured ethnic German, Polish, Belarus and Ukrainians, declaring that “Ukraine children need no schools. What they’ll have to learn will be taught them by their German masters” and “If I meet a Ukrainian worthy of being seated at my table, I must have him shot..”.

Koch worked together with the General Plenipotentiary for Labor Deployment, providing the Reich with forced labor. Erich Koch faced charges of war crimes for the extermination of 400,000 Poles, but was never indicted for his crimes in Ukraine. He was sentenced to death on March 9, 1959 by the district court in Warsaw for having planned, prepared and organized the mass murder of civilians. Many people, including Russian historians, believe he possessed information about art looted by the Nazis during the war.
Years after the war, Koch stood trial in Poland and was convicted in 1959 of war crimes and sentenced to death. The sentence was commuted to life imprisonment a year later.

Brother of Erich Koch, Karl Otto Koch

(August 2, 1897 – April 5, 1945) A colonel in the German SS, Karl was the first commandant of the Nazi concentration camps at Buchenwald. On August 1, 1937 he was given command of the new concentration camp at Buchenwald. Investigations into his improper conduct at Buchenwald included corruption, fraud, embezzlement, drunkenness, sexual offenses and a murder. Koch’s orders to kill prisoners at the camp were revealed, as well as embezzlement of property stolen from prisoners, and he was executed by firing squad. (I have read numerous accounts that state the Nazis were not all the upset about anything else except the embezzling.)

Ilse Koch

Koch married Ilse Köhler with whom he had a son and two daughters. Köhler later became known as “The Witch of Buchenwald.” She was accused of taking souvenirs from the skin of murdered inmates with distinctive tattoos. These rumors were never verified, but the mythos continues to this day, most famously “Hitler’s Lampshades”. She built an indoor sports arena, which cost over 250,000 marks, most of which were taken from the inmates. Ilse was arrested by the Gestapo for embezzlement of SS funds and the murder of certain inmates in an attempt to cover up these crimes.

She was tried for war crimes by an American military tribunal in 1947. Prosecuting her was future United States Court of Claims Judge Robert L. Kunzig. She was charged with ”participating in a criminal plan for aiding, abetting and participating in the murders at Buchenwald.” The court found that Ilse Koch was a willing participant in the horrors that occurred at Buchenwald. The tribunal found Koch guilty and sentenced her to life imprisonment. After she had served two years, General Lucius D. Clay, the interim military governor of the American Zone in Germany, pardoned her. Owing to international condemnation, however, Koch was re-arrested in 1949 and tried before a West German court for instigation to murder in 135 cases. She was sentenced to life imprisonment on January 15, 1951. She committed suicide by hanging herself in prison on September 1, 1967

Fred Chase Koch

(September 23, 1900 – November 17, 1967) chemical engineer and founded the TEXACO oil refinery firm that later became Koch Industries (Chevron). Koch and its customers were sued for patent infringement, process for turning crude oil into gasoline. Litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. In other words, Koch was banned. Koch turned his focus to foreign markets, including the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, reportedly with the help of Erich Koch. During his time in the Soviet Union, Fred Koch came to despise communism and Josef Stalin’s regime “a land of hunger, misery and terror”.

Fred C. Koch married Mary Robinson in Kansas City, Missouri in 1932. They had four sons, Frederick (b. 1933), Charles (b. 1935), David (b. 1940) and William (b. 1940). His sons are Charles de Ganahl Koch and David H. Koch.

The New York Times on Charles and David:

“Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us”. (That speech could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today, and has been, in one form or another.) article cont:

Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception”. To New Yorkers who associate the David H. Koch Theater at Lincoln Center with the New York City Ballet, it’s startling to learn that the Texas branch of that foundation’s political arm, known simply as Americans for Prosperity, gave its Blogger of the Year Award to an activist who had called President Obama “cokehead in chief.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/03/11/the-koch-family-a-legacy-of-hate-part-one/
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Thanks for this post
Welcome to DU :hi:

Rachel Maddow has been exposing the Koch links to Americans for Prosperity for some time. We need to find out the names of the fascist brothers hacks in the media.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
I put the video on Facebook.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Great...it really needs to go viral
Thanks
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Anti-Democratic/American Fascists
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. NWO. The right used to fear NWO takeover, and now they've been duped into helping it.
Dumbasses.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC -- let's not forget that -- !!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. We need some TEXT on this --
presume there is a PLAYBOY.com link and will look for it --

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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. According to the OP it was pulled from Playboy. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. the reporters started exiledonline
.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
20. Here's the New Yorker article by Jane Mayer on Koch Bros --
Edited on Fri Mar-25-11 01:11 AM by defendandprotect
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?printable=true

Still looking for TEXT on the Playboy article --




She explained that the role of Americans for Prosperity was to help “educate” Tea Party activists on policy details, and to give them “next-step training” after their rallies, so that their political energy could be channelled “more effectively.” And she noted that Americans for Prosperity had provided Tea Party activists with lists of elected officials to target. She said of the Kochs, “They’re certainly our people. David’s the chairman of our board. I’ve certainly met with them, and I’m very appreciative of what they do.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?printable=true#ixzz1HaYSKBNS

And here we can see the effort to further deteriorate political discussion by name-calling,

personal insults -- and emotional propaganda, etal --


Venable honored several Tea Party “citizen leaders” at the summit. The Texas branch of Americans for Prosperity gave its Blogger of the Year Award to a young woman named Sibyl West. On June 14th, West, writing on The summit featured several paid speakers, including Janine Turner, the actress best known for her role on the television series “Northern Exposure.” She declared, “They don’t want our children to know about their rights. They don’t want our children to know about a God!”

During a catered lunch, Venable introduced Ted Cruz, a former solicitor general of Texas, who told the crowd that Obama was “the most radical President ever to occupy the Oval Office,” and had hidden from voters a secret agenda—“the government taking over our economy and our lives.” Countering Obama, Cruz proclaimed, was “the epic fight of our generation!” As the crowd rose to its feet and cheered, he quoted the defiant words of a Texan at the Alamo: “Victory, or death!”


The anti-government fervor infusing the 2010 elections represents a political triumph for the Kochs. By giving money to “educate,” fund, and organize Tea Party protesters, they have helped turn their private agenda into a mass movement. ...
The Kochs, he said, are “trying to shape and control and channel the populist uprising into their own policies.”



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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Maybe try the exiledonline guys speaking to Ratigan....
.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Will try to get back to this later -- Koch Bros is an important subject for DU --
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. K & R
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
27. So republicans don't mind the Koch's wealth came from Stalin?
rec'd
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. They think THEY'LL be amongst the elite few when Kochs/ Bushes reach their full-on fascist goal.
.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks. K&R
This is very good.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. Exiledonline.com
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Thanks -- saved-- will try to read later today -- !!
:)
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. There are lots of other good articles on that site also.
:hi:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. recommend
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
37. what the h does p-boy have to do with this?
give it a rest.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. pretty sure it's mentioned as original site for the 2009 article that was pressured to take it down
Edited on Fri Mar-25-11 12:42 PM by blm
.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
40. That's a piece about Geitner
Not the Kochs.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R
:dem:
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. Umm, appreciate the negative coverage Kochs are getting, but
most people don't know what an Oligarchy is. Most people don't know what AEI or Kato is. The Ratigan interview was way too wonky IMO... they never explained the nuts and bolts of why what the Kochs are doing is dangerous or disturbing. Barely skimmed the surface.

PLAIN LANGUAGE PLEASE. Keep it simple and direct. Walk people through it, so that the average person can understand.

IMO.
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. You're right. Lousy video.
If you don't know this already you haven't been paying attenyion.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. I agree - - dumb it down to chalkboard and connecting lines to break thru the fog. Just like Beck.
Beck does it because it works...even with his lies and distortions, it works.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-27-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. The k and the r
Thanks for starting the thread, Boz.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. You are welcome
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
55. kick
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