Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"Apologies to Our Nation's Teachers"...Plus other kind thoughts for teachers and unions.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:33 PM
Original message
"Apologies to Our Nation's Teachers"...Plus other kind thoughts for teachers and unions.
The last couple of days many bloggers took time to write positive things about teachers and unions. It was nice because there is not much of that going around right now.

A DUer shared this column from Buzzflash with me, and it deserves to be noticed. Someone is paying attention to what has happened to teachers in this country lately, and they realize they may have unwittingly contributed to it.

Apologies to Our Nation's Teachers

First they came for your integrity. They did it subtly and over time as they obfuscated our textbooks to reflect a narrow ideology rather than the whole truth.

Next they attacked the integrity of your profession. They did it by devising embarrassingly shallow and mandatory testing in order to hold you accountable for outcomes over which you have minimal control, all the while ignoring the many inadequacies of the society that contribute to student stress.


I wish I could post more of this article, but I needed to save it for the end of the op ed. It is powerfully said.

Then, finally, they seek to destroy all that our founders advocated by eliminating public education altogether. They do it by trumpeting the ill-conceived merits of privatization while ignoring the absence any record of its greater success or efficiency.

So I apologize for those of us who have not fought hard enough along side all of you as you struggle to mentor and inspire our children and grandchildren. Please forgive us for our inattentiveness and neglect. You deserve our utmost admiration and respect.

You see, they have done much of this to those of us in the private sector. And too many of us, duped by their stooges and know-nothings, have lashed out at you because we envy what you still have that we have lost. Arguably you are the last bastion against the corporate tyranny and selfish elitism that threatens our nation.


Very kind words. I thank him. Here is more about the man who wrote this.

Robert Barkley, Jr., is a counselor in Systemic Education Reform, retired Executive Director of the Ohio Education Association, served as Interim Executive Director of the Maine Education Association, is a thirty-five year veteran of NEA and NEA affiliate staff work, long-term consultant to the KnowledgeWorks Foundation of Cincinnati, Ohio, one time teacher, coach, and local union president. He is the author of Quality in Education: A Primer for Collaborative Visionary Educational Leaders and Leadership In Education: A Handbook for School Superintendents and Teacher Union Presidents.


Here are two more bloggers who had some good things to say about their profession, and yes it is a "profession."

From Accountable Talk:

Why I Support Unions

My father was a dock worker. He spent about ten years loading and unloading ships. It was punishing work for paltry pay. Then one day, a minor miracle happened. He landed a job with a utility company--a unionized job. Despite the fact that he never finished high school himself, my father was able, thanks to the decent pay and benefits his union job offered him, to raise our family. He didn't make that much, but it was enough to pay the rent and for him to retire with dignity once his health began to deteriorate. He spent only two months in retirement before he passed away. Nevertheless, my mother received his pension benefits and was able to keep the house together. I was even able to go to college and become a teacher, all because my dad was treated like a human being as a result of his union membership and benefits.

That's what unions are about. No one gets rich in them, but everyone who puts in a good day's work can rest assured that he or she will be entitled to a little piece of the American Dream. Union members work with dignity in the knowledge that they won't be assigned to the garbage heap should they be injured on the job or fired by the capricious whims of a vengeful, racist, or sexist boss. Unions allow regular people to build their lives without fear of those lives being destroyed for no good reason.

This country was built on the middle class, and the middle class was built on unions. While the millionaires and billionaires pride themselves as the masters of this country, it is the union workers who built it, protect it, and serve it.

There are those who would like to deny us the most basic of rights: to organize so that we can speak with one voice in the halls of power and wealth. The powers that be would love to strip us of that right because it would allow them to reduce this country to two classes: the uber-rich and the voiceless, working poor. Not content to have the vast lion's share of this country's wealth, these million and billionaires would love to get even richer by dismantling the pension and health benefits that workers have negotiated for over the last century. They'd like nothing better than to privatize every public institution--especially schools--so that they can get their paws on public money. Unions are all that stand in their way.


I told someone recently that hubby and I were probably of the last generation to have pensions and good retirement. I am more and more starting to believe that. We are two lucky people. We planned for our retirement, but we could not have done so without our unions.

There is also a very nice piece at the NYC Educator blog.

Why Teachers Like Me Support Unions

As well, due process is a crucial right for which teachers' unions have fought. At one time, teachers, like many people in this country today, could be fired at any time, for any reason. Teaching sometimes requires trying new things, which then sometimes involves needing to try again; and, teaching is a job into which the people who do it invest enormous amounts of personal effort and energy. Knowing that the job at which I work hard to excel won't be pulled out from under me without warning is very valuable to me.

For teachers whose unofficial work days run ten or twelve hours on a regular basis, the idea that just because our official work days run out at seven hours, we're slacking, is laughable to us. Teaching is an emotionally and physically stressful occupation. Rules that say we're entitled to a lunch break and a limit on our official contact-with-kids hours help teachers to manage their time and stress, making the teacher who comes to your kid in the morning fresh, attentive, and energetic. It's important to note that, even with some union protection, teachers in the U.S. spend far more of their time with your kids than teachers in most other countries, who spend more time engaged in common planning. That can be tough. Unions demand that teacher time be at least somewhat balanced.

Teachers who feel secure in the jobs, who don't fear arbitrary firing because of political or other beliefs, and whose time is respected are better teachers. Kids can feel confidence and comfort from adults, and they respond to it in kind. That makes for a better experience in school and a better education for kids. So as someone who, yes, loves children, I continue to support unions for myself and for all teachers who hope to make teaching their lifelong careers.


I believe Diane Ravitch, former assistant Education Secretary for George HW Bush, would agree with Mr. Barkley above. Teachers and public workers are one of the last segments of society to have unions that work for them. Too many find that intolerable.

I quote Ravitch:

Quoteworthy

"As for pension and health-care envy, it is a sad thing when working Americans complain that someone else has benefits, instead of agreeing that everyone should have coverage for their health and old age. It reminds me of an old Soviet joke where a peasant says, "My neighbor has a cow and I have none, I want his cow to die." We should not join in this race to the bottom."

-Diane Ravitch


I was proud to be a teacher, a union teacher, for over 30 years. I am more and more talking to teachers I once taught with. Many of them are still teaching. They are having to hold their heads high in spite of the way they have been targeted for the last two years. It is not easy. Those who feel the pain too deeply are having to get out of the field if they can. Those who can't are for the first time being made to feel like failures....when in reality most of them are heroes to their students.

This is a sad time in history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. The short selling of this country.
Ends with education. India graduates more PHD's than we have undergraduates in college. In 10-15 years, this country will be reduced to an Idiocracy. We keep electing stupid people with bizarre ideas to govern us. Gawd Bless America!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Yep, that appears to be what we are electing lately...
especially in the realm of the teabaggers. "stupid people with bizarre ideas."

And the "smart" people are trying so hard to be "bipartisan" that they won't fight back against the bizarre ideas.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. We need another Huey Long (minus the predilection for stippers)
A fire breathing populist rabble rouser that wasn't afraid to call a problem and problem and point the finger, shake a fist, and howl at the moon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. I want apologies from the man I voted for.
I voted for him thinking at at least he was smart. Turns out not so much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I never expected this vitriol against teachers.
I knew he was one of the reformers, pushing for charter schools. But then so was his opponent an advocate of such change. But the TFA led attack on Linda Darling Hammond left the position open for Arne....and the attacks began.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. That's why I think he isn't bright.
No one with any depth or experience with teaching thinks the kind of thing arne wants will do children any good. Knowledgable people know this is ruining education in our country. But Obama listens to the charlatans and the corporate stooges and believes them.

You have to hope that he is a little dense. For if he knew what this was doing to schools an kept doing it, he would have to be a monster, a corporate tentacle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. hmm...
I think it's past time to acknowledge that Obama IS a corporate tentacle.

Consider also: the small community college where I work part-time has cut our hours AND eliminated copying privileges. Plus, the math lab used to be open until 10 pm, Monday through Thursday, but will now close at 8 pm. It's really only a matter of time before my position is eliminated--which means the young people I've had the great honor to witness working their tushies off to actually GET college algebra and make good grades on their exams won't get to come into my sessions and share with me their excitement over their successes.

BTW, I have to agree with those who've posted hereinabove that -- of late -- our politicians reflect the continued disintegration and partisan usurpation of our system of public education. In short, far too many of our politicians are pure-dee 'ate up with the dumb-ass'!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. k and r
Great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe the tide is turning...
...at last. Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/201...


The interview is also priceless. This is from a SUPERINTENDENT! :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I missed that Ed Week interview. Thanks for sharing.
I liked this part.

"The assumption that the school reform movement doesn't permit negative outcomes requires you to believe that they fix kids when the hard, unmentionable truth is that they cull them. And I take the culled ones and do the best I can with them. And I'm good with this arrangement because you can't spin the story when you stand before God. God sees through the omissions and knows that the reformer above runs a magnet school and that I take all comers. He can convince the politicians and his readers if he wants to. I'm good with that. I'll soldier on."

Indeed that is true. One charter in our area that does not have to answer to the school board dropped 12% of its HS students one year, and i think 7% of middle school. Because they did not "perform."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Did you watch the video? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Loading it now. You Tube is in one of the slow loading moods right now.
I have learned just to leave the sound muted and let it load, then go and watch when it has finished loading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Brace yourself. This is one ...
...pissed educator. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yep, I would say he is. : )
Loved it .

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Isn't it great to see we aren't...
...the only ones? :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sure is.
I see this has had a couple of unrecs the last few minutes. That really irritates me, as the post is not deserving of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. I don't even check anymore. I just...
...post what I think is important and let the chips fall... :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. Blogger makes point about a talking point that is harmful.
This has bothered me a lot, because it sounds like teachers don't care about students. I think the blogger nails why they are using it so much. Much credit to the "reformers"...they have the rhetoric down pat. They are very good at propaganda.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-lehmann/defense-of-...

"We should have a great debate in this country about what teaching and learning looks like. Part of that debate should be about what role the teacher assumes and how that life is sustainable, livable and just. The teachers unions will be at the table for that conversation. They should be; they need to be.

In our schools, it is very easy to run roughshod over the rights of adults. "It's for the children... you're for the children, aren't you?" It's an easy sell, and it tugs at the heartstrings of all -- but the most hardened of hearts. It's too often a cheap line, and too many people have used it to push teachers too far, burn them out, abuse their compassion and care.

Teachers unions make sure that individual teachers don't have to do that every day. They remind administrators that there are limits, and that for teachers do be able to do this job, day in and day out, year after year, they need to be taken care of as well. They remind politicians, as unions always have, that a fair day's work is worth a fair day's wage. And that contracts are not just platitudes, but binding documents.


Yes, it is rather a cheap throwaway line.

Unions remind us that those who are recent to the struggle of educating a nation may have some good ideas, but that they must work in concert with the teachers, not against us. Because in the end, they are our schools as much as they are our children's schools. Our work, our passion, our energy, our lives are in the classroom walls. And we have every bit as much of a right to a say in how our schools will evolve as those who would take our voice from us.


I would love to have a dollar for every time that line has been used against teachers here at DU. Making it sound like because we are union we don't care about the students.

It's a ridiculous line...good for the blogger for speaking out.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. Words from other countries about teachers....every good thing they mention is being cut here.
From the international teaching summit:

"The contrasts to the American attitude toward teachers and teaching could not have been more stark. Officials from countries like Finland and Singapore described how they have built a high-performing teaching profession by enabling all of their teachers to enter high-quality preparation programs, generally at the masters degree level, where they receive a salary while they prepare. There they learn research-based teaching strategies and train with experts in model schools attached to their universities. They enter a well-paid profession in Singapore earning as much as beginning doctors -- where they are supported by mentor teachers and have 15 or more hours a week to work and learn together engaging in shared planning, action research, lesson study, and observations in each others classrooms. And they work in schools that are equitably funded and well-resourced with the latest technology and materials.

In Singapore, based on their talents and interests, many teachers are encouraged to pursue career ladders to become master teachers, curriculum specialists, and principals, expanding their opportunities and their earnings with still more training paid for by the government. Teacher union members in these countries talked about how they work closely with their governments to further enrich teachers and school leaders learning opportunities and to strengthen their skills.

In these summit discussions, there was no teacher-bashing, no discussion of removing collective bargaining rights, no proposals for reducing preparation for teaching, no discussion of closing schools or firing bad teachers, and no proposals for ranking teachers based on their students test scores. The Singaporean Minister explicitly noted that his countrys well-developed teacher evaluation system does not digitally rank or calibrate teachers, and focuses instead on how well teachers develop the whole child and contribute to each others efforts and to the welfare of the whole school."

NOW

Read Linda Darling Hammond's words about Arne's goals:
"How poignant for Americans to listen to this account while nearly every successful program developed to support teachers learning in the United States is proposed for termination by the Obama administration or the Congress: Among these, the TEACH Grants that subsidize preparation for those who will teach in high-need schools; the Teacher Quality Partnership grants that support innovative pre-service programs in high-need communities; the National Writing Project and the Striving Readers programs that have supported professional development for the teaching of reading and writing all across the country, and the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards, which certifies accomplished teachers and provides what teachers have long called some of the most powerful professional development they ever experience in their careers.

These small programs total less than $1 billion annually, the cost of half a week in Afghanistan. They are not nearly enough to constitute a national policy; yet they are among the few supports America now provides to improve the quality of teaching."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/d...

Not too proud to give this a kick from page 4 as education and teachers do matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jazz Ambassador Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Re Singapore
In these summit discussions, there was no teacher-bashing, no discussion of removing collective bargaining rights, no proposals for reducing preparation for teaching, no discussion of closing schools or firing bad teachers, and no proposals for ranking teachers based on their students test scores. The Singaporean Minister explicitly noted that his countrys well-developed teacher evaluation system does not digitally rank or calibrate teachers, and focuses instead on how well teachers develop the whole child and contribute to each others efforts and to the welfare of the whole school."

Yep, Singapore -- and I speak as a former resident -- has an awesome education system, and is a great place to be a teacher. Not only great training but great pay. But do note as well:

"Each year, teachers are evaluated according to a grading system - A, B, C, D or E. Only about 2% get a grade of A. and most teachers receive a grade of C. Salary increments are tied to this system and if a teacher gets a grade of D, he or she cannot be promoted through a particular track, for three years. If a teacher gets an E grade, he or she is dismissed. Mrs. Song told us that this is very rare and she had never seen a teacher dismissed in her ten years of teaching, although she has seen incompetent teachers leave the profession of their own volition.

Teachers' grades are based on three criteria - performance, contribution, and "estimated potential." Performance includes students' test results and grades, formal and informal teacher observation, and feedback from stakeholders, which include students, parents, and "reporting officers" (department and subject heads). Contribution involves the extra things that teachers do for the school, such as chair meetings and committees and teach extracurricular activities. Estimated potential involves the potential a teacher has to improve based on their academic background, performance and contribution. There is no such thing as tenure for teachers in Singapore, but as I mentioned earlier, firing teachers is rare."

(http://www.thedailyriff.com/articles/the-professional-l... )

So: great training, great pay, cultural respect -- but also merit-based pay, no tenure, no job protection, and advancement and pay based on, among other things, student test performance and parental feedback. There are many people in the U.S. who would love to see us with a Singapore-style teaching profession, but it's hard to believe most American teachers would be among them. (It's also the case that the Singaporean teaching profession has extremely rigorous standards for admission; the typical Singapore teacher is much closer, in educational achievement, to the graduates of Brown's or Columbia's education programs than to the typical American teacher.)

In short, what Singapore has is very, very close to the ideal of someone like Michelle Rhee -- which is just fine with many Americans, including upper-middle-class Democrats. Be careful what you wish for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Four two years I have seen teachers in the US insulted by both parties.
In fact I do not kid myself about Darling Hammond herself. She would be the first to push for charter schools, and probably would have closed down just as many failing schools as Arne wants to do.

In fact the way Michelle Rhee speaks of teachers is exactly how the Obama administration speaks of teachers.

If Singapore even shows a modicum of respect for teachers, then they outshine this country by far.

I do not kid myself. The fact that so many at a Democratic forum will try everything to discredit public school teachers and the schools themselves...and just plain ignore what is being done to the public education in the name of profit..shows that what Reagan started is being finished right now.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you so much for this excellent piece, Mad.
It helps to hear words of support. I hope there will be more and more people willing to fight along side us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Just saw this irerport on CNN. NY teachers protest Cuomo's cuts
to education. Get a load of what he is planning to do. Cut taxes to the rich and cut education.
Sounds like a Republican to me.

"During the "Call for a Day of Action" protest, Wednesday, in Watertown, N.Y., I spoke to Renee Vogelsang, an AQE organizer, who said that Governor Andrew Cuomo has proposed rescinding the special "MillionaireTax" which will make it necessary to cut NYS education by $1.5 billion."

Video of the protest at the link.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-579095?ref=feeds%2Foncn...

Thanks for the kick. This post has really dropped quickly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. That's outrageous.
What state is not facing politically motivated cuts at this point?

My oldest son told me this morning, "The world is changing, and it's not a friendly place. I'm worried about you. You've worked all your life, and for what?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. i just shared the original post on my facebook.
I thought it deserved as big an audience as possible. :0) thanks for sharing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. Recommended. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cate94 Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. Sorry I am too late to rec this, but
I am kicking.

My sister is a teacher who is very close to retirement. This year has been so discouraging for her. She would retire but her hubby is worried they aren't ready for the loss of her salary yet.

She told me today that she feels like a failure. I am sending a copy of your OP to her- if you don't mind. She is no failure. She deserves better, as do most of the teachers in this country.

Thanks for all that you do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. Madflo, tell me if this is true
I admit, I am a former Yankee that has lived here in Florida for 20 years. I have had many friends that were self-described Florida "crackers", as the natives prefer to call themselves. I try not to judge, but I drive them in bars and the Talk radio, and I really wonder if the Floridian really is some sort of unique fool. Granted, it is not all the fault of the Dixie flag wavers, Florida also got the worst of the North, with a lot of fuckheads (whose lives were made better by unions and taxes)coming down here and making sure Gen X and Y are screwed. The Yankees say shit like "I educated my kids up in New York." and the Johnny Rebs say "I want to send my kid to a Christian or home school." I apologize if I am unfair, but while Florida is pretty nature wise, it attracts so much of the ugly people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 25th 2017, 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC