The real reason behind Rick Scott's decision to derail high-speed rail

[highplainsdem]

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-03-19/news/fl-forum-scott-reason-foundation-20110319_1_high-speed-rail-rick-scott-koch-brothers

Real reason behind decision to derail high-speed rail
March 19, 2011|By Curt Levine


Rick Scott's decision to reject federal funds to construct Florida's high-speed rail project was no surprise to observers who knew Scott's game plan. When Scott appointed Robert Poole as his transportation advisor, it sounded the death knell for any type of non-highway-based mass-transit public transportation projects in Florida during Scott's administration.

Poole is director of transportation policy at the Reason Foundation, a right-wing lobby group of road-based transportation industrial interests, including petroleum, asphalt and rubber-tire manufacturers. And, not coincidentally, Reason receives substantial funding by the ultraconservative billionaire Koch brothers. David Koch serves as a Reason trustee.

Scott claimed he was rejecting federal funding for Florida's high-speed rail project based upon a Reason Foundation report of Jan. 6, 2011, authored by Wendell Cox, head of the Wendell Cox Consultancy. Cox claims to be a disinterested, independent transportation consultant, but has long been known as an opponent of rail transit projects and on the roster of the Reason Foundation and other highway promoters such as the American Highway Users Alliance, a pro-highway construction lobby group.

-snip-

The Reason Foundation report urged Scott to cancel the high-speed rail project "as Wisconsin and Ohio have recently done." Scott complied. Will Florida be the next Wisconsin?

-snip-

One of the paragraphs snipped out there is about Jeb Bush, who "relied on Poole and the Reason Foundation as cover" when he derailed plans for a bullet train after Floridians had voted for it. His decision to do so makes much more sense when you know who's behind the Reason Foundation.


Curt Levine, who wrote this piece, is a former Florida state representative.

[abelenkpe]

1. K&R nt

[highplainsdem]

13. Thanks!

[Lefta Dissenter]

2. yeah, uhhh

welcome to Wisconsin :hi:

[aquart]

3. Feudalism goes better with Koch.

[glinda]

4. Just a little digging will unveil plenty to throw him out of office now. Kick.

[peace frog]

49. It won't happen

As unhappy as many people (including a few high level Florida Replublicans) are with him, Rick Scott will not be drummed out of office. He is here to stay, get used to it. Fasten your seat belts, fellow Floridians, it's going to be a bumpy 8 years.

[tabatha]

5. Reason Foundation = Koch

[highplainsdem]

8. Much more than the Kochs, though they're part of it. Link to Sourcewatch article on

the Reason Foundation:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Reason_Foundation

[tabatha]

9. Thanks.

But I bet much of the money came from the Kochs.

[Blue Owl]

6. So millions of regular Americans must be deprived of good transportation options

So these greedy fuckwads can have their bonus millions.

Great!

[freshwest]

7. Yeap and now he's bragging about creating infrastructure by his pals. Please send him to Jail.

[lib2DaBone]

10. I knew it! PRick Scott received a check from Big OIl.

The High-Speed rail would have connected the cruise ship port in Miami with Disney World in Orlando and Business offices in Tampa.

It would have created 24,000 jobs!

Repukes are not pro-business, they are not pro-anything. They are greedy, arrogant bastards.

[MGB67deux]

11. We need another Roger Rabbit

to defeat this current "Judge Doom".... and bring back the Red Car service.

Folks in LA know that the Red Car was ripped out at the urging (and $$$$$$) of General Motors, Firestone and Standard Oil. They were caught, convicted and had their pee-pees slapped (lightly).

Just bidness.

[and-justice-for-all]

12. Well it would create jobs...

and we can't have that now can we. :sarcasm:

[peace frog]

50. Not if it would reflect well on Barack Obama

Scott would love to take credit for any Florida jobs created, but not if they come about through federal funds (read: created by the Obama administration).

[robcon]

14. It was a poorly designed program.

Connecting two medium size cities (an hour away from each other by car) with no train infrastructure within the cities is a recipe for failure in high speed train systems.

It would make more sense to drive to/from Orlando-Tampa, than to have to take a speedy train, then have to rent a car to get around within the city.

1. cities were too close together.
2. not enough public transit within the cities.

It would make more sense for something like LA-San Francisco, Chicago-Minneapolis, or perhaps Houston-Atlanta. Tampa-Orlando was a loser.

[onethatcares]

15. gauddammmint, it was a start and the right of way down the center of I4

was one of the best things we had going. Even I being an old fart could see that if we could get a line started, connect to Daytona/Miami/JVille, Tallahassee/Naples and other assorted places it would have been a step into the future. But, no, we get to sit in fucking traffic while 13,000 automobiles crowd the Howard Frankland Bridge, overwhelm I 4 between Tampa and Lakeland, and add nothing but angst to the drive in either direction, all because of backwards looking assholes. Once the train started running maybe the surrounding states might have wanted to get into the program. But it has to start somewhere.

The interstate highway system was a loser, it's still a loser but it moves people from place to place. Myself, I'd like to take the train from St. Pete to Orlandos theme parks, I'd like to take one to St. Augustine, West Palm, Miami and all places in between, but I don't get the chance because of some billionaire asshole that can't even answer a deposition without invoking the 5th amendment.

What does that tell you about the man?

[peace frog]

51. [phone]

Thank you.

[blondeatlast]

68. Well said. I'm not a Floridian but have spent some time there--and you are spot-on. nt

[lovelyrita]

19. Do you live between Orlando and Tampa?

I do and commute from Polk into Orlando everyday. We need public transportation here. Our roads are congested, not just during rush hour but because of all the tourists, it's bad on the week-ends, late at night, and all sorts of other odd hours. The sad part is that this rail project would have created jobs in an area that really needs them.

[Lorien]

29. Wrong. Tampa is 2-3 hours from Orlando during business hours

the congestion on the "I-4 parking lot" is intolerable. THAT is why we voted for the bullet train. TWICE. Florida is flat with warm sunny weather; the perfect environment for much needed high speed rail.

[Tx4obama]

30. Houston-Atlanta? I think Dallas-Houston-Austin-Dallas would be better :) n/t

[mojowork_n]

44. Except Chicago - Minneapolis was a NO-GO, too.

That 'no public transit' option was what we heard, too. It's what they always say.

But Orlando has the LYNX system -- and cabs -- and Tampa has 'HART' -- and cabs, and whatever.

I live in that Chicago - Minneapolis corridor and Gauleiter Walker killed our High-Speed Rail to
satisfy his major funding sources (those same Koch Brothers, and other local road-builders.)

So in the long run, the other side wins because no single small section of a high-speed network
is going to be "self-sustainable."

And that's how the other side wins, and the oil company lobbyists and the big road construction
lobbyists keep earning their high fees. Can you say, "cha-ching?"



Oh, yeah -- and the real killer was that the Gauleiter got himself a 4-year term in the statehouse
running on a platform that promised "250,000 new jobs."

So the manufacturer for the trains had already set up shop to build the trains for the whole,
nation-wide high-speed network, right here in Milwaukee.

The manufacturer pulled out of Milwaukee, after our Gauleiter killed the WI section of that
Twin Cities to Chicago rail corridor.

[reggie the dog]

78. fuck em

we should do chicago to madison, have the counties from beloit up to madison become part of illinois....



chicago to new york needs to be done, stopping in ft wayne, toledo, cleveland, (with another line from there to erie, buffalo, rochester, utica, albany, boston, with a line from albany to nyc) pittsburgh philadelphia, trenton, nyc


basically anywhere there are 4 to 8 lane highways would be a great place to lay down high speed rail is all i am saying.

think package delivery and light freight

[WatsonT]

55. +1

Mass transit within a city needs to get funding first.

That accounts for most of our congestion and the majority of our driving.

It would be more economical and practical to focus on upgrading the cheap mass transit within large and medium cities first, then move on to rail between cities.

[Enthusiast]

58. Negative one!

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. Want to think about that?

'Connecting two medium size cities' - one of which is a monster tourist destination, the other of which is a major tourist cruise port. A perfect way to get tourists to expand their planned vacations to take in both.

'...to drive to/from Orlando-Tampa...' You do that often? During tourist season?

1. cities too close together - but this line prepares for an expansion making the potential, eventually, of Tampa/Orlando/W. Palm Beach/Miami. It's not like this would be just a little commuter hop.

2. not enough public transit within the cities - the rail would expand the demand for public transit. Public transit is not just for po folks who can't afford cars anymore.

[Kermitt Gribble]

63. Take a drive on I-4 before you make that judgement. n/t

[axollot]

65. But Miami-Orlando wasn't....NEXT!! (a pissed off Floridian) n/t

[reggie the dog]

76. tampa to miami

was the plan wasnt it? with the stop in orlando because of all the theme parks, the hour long car ride would have probably taken 15 minutes in a bullet train or 20 minutes at over 200 mph. the average speed on a journey with no delays in france is just over 173 miles per hour, that would make miami to orlando a 1 hour 33 minute commute, think cruise ship to disneyworld in 2 and a half hours from actually leaving your cruise ship, taking a shuttle from there to the train, and another from the train to your hotel. think of the tourists on crusies who could pop up to disney for 2 nights with the kids then get in a boat in miami an hour and a half away.


each state needs to make its own high speed rail to link its own cities and a national network need to develop to link cities, a line from miami to portland maine, another from miami to san diego, another from san diego to vancouver BC, one from seattle to portland maine. another from dc to san fransisco, linking as many cities as reasonably possible along the way,

think light freight, mail, packages and the like.....

if it is done right it will be done public owned like in france

[Dappleganger]

77. Obviously you've not visited that area in the past 5 years.

You can't hardly drive across Orlando in an hour due to traffic backup on I4, much less drive between the two cities.

[Dappleganger]

16. The Reason Foundation=Koch Brothers

Let's not forget that. All of his info was based on "research" done by them rather than on credible evidence from reliable resources.

[Canuckistanian]

17. As someone said, "Walker loves concrete"

Oh,and asphalt. A petroleum product.

Rail doesn't use concrete. Only steel and wood and stone.

No profit for the Koch brothers there.

[TheMadMonk]

23. Actualy rail has used concrete for ties/sleepers for years.

The problem with rail is that there is no retail or aftermarket.

[highplainsdem]

25. The OP's about FLA's Rick Scott, but WI's Scott Walker's reasons did involve road builders. Link to

my reply in another topic, about Walker, quoting an article about donations:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x720610#720877

[Canuckistanian]

32. argh, I always confuse these evil Scotts

[Mojeoux]

70. What "Artist's Vision of the Future" did NOT have a cool mono-rail?

This is the future and we need our transportation!

[highplainsdem]

71. True.

[highplainsdem]

18. kick

[Ilsa]

20. I guess the oil-rich Arab states are a part of the Reason Group? Makes sense that

these goons would be in collusion with them to keep Americans dependent on oil.

[Cetacea]

21. Obama was hanging with Jeb while rail suit was pending

A bipartisan duo sued saying that Scott's move was illegal. If not for Jebbie the original bullet train would have probably been completed by now. Weird timing on Obama's part.

[donco]

22. That is the same industry

that lobbied successfully to replace streetcars with buses.

[highplainsdem]

24. Yes. Wikipedia article on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_streetcar_scandal

[Hugabear]

26. Rick Scott referred to it as "Obama-rail"

We Floridians knew it was doomed as soon as he said that.

[Tx4obama]

31. Let's see... ObamaCare, ObamaRail, what's next ? :) n/t

[xxqqqzme]

53. Obamademocracy.

[applegrove]

27. Disgusting!!

[DirkGently]

28. Gee, Scott just looks better and better.

[orbitalman]

33. K & R

[go west young man]

34. It's always about their buddies, the kickbacks, and the benjamins.

[mucifer]

35. We in IL were very close to getting a lunatic governor. Gov Quinn won by a hair.

We are getting an extra 42 million from Wisc and Ohio and who knows how much from Florida. They are predicting an eventual 24,000 permanent jobs here.

Gov. Quinn also signed a bill to get rid of the death penalty here.

I just shudder to think what this state would be like if bill brady had won as governor.

Gov. Quinn is not perfect. He is cutting funding to many programs for the poor and restructuring our public aid health program. But, we are broke and with more jobs maybe we can change some of this.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars77]

37. I love high-speed rail

I live in southern Germany right now, and Deutche Bahn has discounts for early bookings like the airlines do. I can go from Munich to Gothenburg or Milan/Bologna for 39 Euros. In one of these bad boys going 220 kph.



They even have a restaurant carriage.

[LittleGirl]

38. Hey Lars

I miss the rail options we had in Stuttgart. I'm 5 miles away from the nearest bus stop here in Indy and I'm in the city limits. When we were in the Stuttgart area, I was 1.5 blocks from a bus and 2 blocks from the train. We didn't even own a vehicle in Germany.

[Lars77]

39. Cool, im going on a semester exchange to Murray, KY soon

Something tells me theres no high speed rail there. Lol.

But in central Europe, if you live in any town of descent size you dont really need a car unless you have three kids and a dog or something.

[LittleGirl]

40. exactly.

oh, and LOL at your sig line!

[russspeakeasy]

48. You are going to Kentucky? On purpose?

[Lars77]

80. Fraid so! Should be interesting :) nt

[howmad1]

61. Oh please. What the fuck do Europeans know?

We're so much better than any other country on the planet. Stupider, but better.:sarcasm:

[hifiguy]

45. In 2003 I spent a couple of weeks in France

After arriving at deGaulle, my party walked to the TGV station and we were in Lyon 2.5 hours later. Huge, comfortable seats, tons of legroom, a "diner" car where one could get excellent coffee and freshly made sandwiches. And we got to see the cows and vineyards whistle by at about 300 kph. There is no more civilized method of travel than high-speed rail.

[Blue_Tires]

47. I've been on it before, too

loved it...

[nxylas]

41. You should cross-post this to the Public Transportation & Smart Growth forum

It would fit right in with all the other bad news there :(

[NBachers]

42. The Treason Foundation and the Wendell Cox Conspiracy n/t

[Nye Bevan]

43. It was a dumb idea. I'm glad it's dead.

But worse even than cost overruns has been the political manipulation afflicting the speedy choo-choos. A recent eye-opening New York Times article revealed the cold, calculating politics behind HSR in sunny Florida, where the federal government pledged $2.4 billion of the total $2.6 billion cost of building an 85-mile-long high-speed track between Tampa and Orlando. The Sunshine State’s Republican governor refused the funds, however, worried that his state would have to foot the bill later for the cost overruns and excess debts that have vexed similar systems throughout the world.

The route itself, it turns out, was more or less useless, as critics had contended for years. “It would have linked two cities that are virtually unnavigable without cars,” the Times article states, “and that are so close that the new train would have been little faster than driving.”

So why, then, spend billions on a useless rail project? According to the article, the White House apparently believed that “simply building new futuristic trains zipping around at more than 150 miles an hour would be an accomplishment in itself, one that could lift the spirits of a recession-battered nation.” But, alas, the project’s demise will “deprive the Obama administration of what it had hoped would be a showpiece that would sell the rest of the nation on high-speed rail.” Such a shame when facts interfere with perception.

http://www.american.com/archive/2011/march/the-real-problem-with-high-speed-rail

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/us/12rail.html?_r=1&ref=politics&pagewanted=all

Seriously, who is going to take a high-speed rail journey from Tampa to Orlando? You need a car to get around Orlando. So you're going to drive to the Tampa railroad station, park, take the train to Orlando and rent a car? Obviously you're not a tourist because then you would have just flown into Orlando in the first place. So you're a local. But how many locals are going to need to take a high-speed train from Tampa to Orlando regularly? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

BTW I am not anti-train. I love trains. I am a regular on the Acela between CT and Washington. A New York to Chicago high-speed train would be wonderful.

[Enthusiast]

57. Negative one!

[BREMPRO]

46. Same old story- these lobby groups derailed the best public transportation system in the world

back in the 40's- Los Angeles- they ripped out all the rails and trashed the street cars for buses and cars and roads, roads, more roads. Look at the result..

So FL will get what it deserves for electing a corporate oil lobby stained Republican.. more traffic, more smog, more stress, less efficient transportation and an economic disadvantage. Same old story...

[drm604]

52. The Koch's have their mitts everywhere.

There has to something that can be done.

They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. Hopefully as more and more of the Koch's various connections are revealed to the public, people will be less likely to be influenced by their propaganda.

Any connection to the name Koch needs to become the kiss of death for a politician.

[Armstead]

54. Kick

[Enthusiast]

56. Fascism

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. Was there ever a time when this kind of revelation would result in a public outcry for

the elected official to step down? Or are we in a new era of information with this kind of thing is now impossible to hide, so we still haven't made the necessary changes to the system to respond to the corrupt connections?

[mistertrickster]

60. Exactly right. The Koch Bros see high speed rail as a threat to

their gasoline empire.

They bring in lecturers to talk about the evils of gov't-funded mass-transit programs.

Just spent four days in Wash, DC enjoying the metro and the benefits of walking . . .

[TygrBright]

64. Cloverleaf Industries strikes again.... n/t

[myrna minx]

66. K&R n/t

[blondeatlast]

67. I'm shocked--shocked, I tellz ya! If ever there was a good spot

for high speed rail, I would say FL was the place (Walt Disney thought so too...).

These bastids are as transparent as air. k/r

[KamaAina]

69. Wendell Cox is quite evil

he hates anything to do with trains with such a ferocious intensity it makes one wonder if his big brother wouldn't let him play with the Lionel set when he was four. :eyes:

[bertman]

72. Rec. nt

[Uncle Joe]

73. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, highplainsdem.

[GreenTea]

74. If it doesn't use lots of OIL republican fucks will fight ALL alternative transportation

behind the scenes, using their made up lying groups with deceptive names, fueling money to defeat ballot propositions, legislation, state & local governments and the people will, all in their greedy efforts to continue keeping their OIL as the energy we must depend on. (This also goes for the way OIL corporations and republicans behind the scenes defeat & cut any funding for clean renewable alternative energy sources).

These greedy bastards would rather handcuff this country so their OIL sells for the highest price possible - more roads for cars but no mass transportation, they'll fight it....So what if OIL pollutes, potions the air we breath is far too costly....Just as long as they get theirs.

[lunatica]

75. The pity of it is the high speed rail was never meant to replace roads

He could have had his cake and eaten it too. But I guess that's too complex for the idiocrats to figure out.

[AnnieBW]

79. It would benefit the tourism industry more

to have high-speed rail across the state rather than traffic-causing cars.

For example, I'm currently in Orlando at the CTIA Conference. I would like to visit my friend in Tampa, without having to rent a car to do it, or having her drive up here. This would be easily accomplished if I could get onto a train that parallels I-4 to Tampa. Or, say we want to tour the Kennedy Space Center. We could go the opposite way to Melbourne, then go down to Cape Canaveral and check it out. Then ride the train back, then take the trolley or a bus back to the hotel.

What a douchebag! This is a no-brainer!

[Shallah Kali]

81. Rick Scott guided by 3 think tanks: Cato Institute, Reason Foundation, Heritage Foundation

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/to-understand-gov-rick-scott-know-these-three-think-tanks/1158658

Michael Cannon, director of health policy studies for Cato, served on Scott's Medicaid reform transition team. He said he first became familiar with the governor when Scott launched Conservatives for Patients Rights in 2009 to fight federal health care legislation. "We saw the ads, we saw what he was doing, we invited him to speak at Cato and he's followed our work ever since," Cannon said.

Cannon applauded Scott for backing Florida's lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the health care law signed by Obama last year, and praised the governor for refusing to implement the law in Florida while the issue winds through the courts.

snip

The free-market, small-government philosophy of Cato infuses many of Scott's public remarks.

He has backed up his dislike of a prescription drug monitoring program that some say is crucial to helping solve the state's prescription drug abuse epidemic by saying he believes it is government invading the privacy of individuals.